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How does Dylan Hartley qualify for England?

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Cymroglan
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How does Dylan Hartley qualify for England? Empty How does Dylan Hartley qualify for England?

Post by HammerofThunor Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:53 pm

I've heard loads of different versions. some say he came over at 14, some at 16 and some at 18. I've heard that he has an english grandparent and others have said he has an English parent.

Could someone please give a definitive answer with (and this is the key point) some form of reference as proof.

Either that or can we find out how many versions have been written in the papers.

Cheers

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Post by TheGreyGhost Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:56 pm

Stop this flagrant racism!

Engerland! Engerland! Engerland! Engerland!


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Post by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:58 pm

That's a good question actually, I've read loads of different reports on it myself. Not sure it really matters too much though as even if he did only come over at 18, he'd qualify on residency anyway, wouldn't he?

TheGG - behave yourself please Wink

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Post by greybeard Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:59 pm

Does it matter what age? He's been playing in England for years.

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Post by red_stag Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:59 pm

According to Wiki, moved to England in 2000 (aged 14), attended Beacon Community College in Sussex.
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Post by doctor_grey Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:01 pm

Not sure his parentage, but by now he qualifies by residency. I thought he came over in his late teens, but I know it was before his twentieth.

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Post by doctor_grey Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:03 pm

Oh, thats interesting. He came over earlier than I thought. Good for him. Is there anything indicating why he came over when aged 14? At that age, I find it hard to think it was for Rugby. Maybe his parents has business?

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Post by geoff998rugby Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:03 pm

Wiki says he has been in England since he was 14

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Post by HammerofThunor Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:05 pm

greybeard wrote:Does it matter what age? He's been playing in England for years.

It doesn't "matter" as such. It's just I've heard conflicting things and wondered what the truth is.

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Post by snoopster Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:07 pm

English mother - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/6608096/Englands-Kiwi-hooker-Dylan-Hartley-relishing-first-haka-at-Twickenham.html

He came here when he was 16.

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Post by HammerofThunor Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:10 pm

Unfortunately the wiki page doesn't have any references for that piece of information

Cheers snoopster, a quoted line from Hartley that says he left at 16 (see what I mean about wiki?)

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Post by Effervescing Elephant Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:11 pm

That's really confusing as Wiki (i know...) says he came over in 2000.

Who is this man of mystery, what's he hiding? I demand an investigation!! Shocked How does Dylan Hartley qualify for England? 3497602689
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Post by doctor_grey Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:11 pm

Yeah, just read an interview from The Independent saying 16 also. And with the English Mum, to boot. Shouldn't be an issue - came over as a teenager, not as an adult suddenly finding his roots (cough, cough).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/dylan-hartley-a-saint-and-a-sinner-who-feels-right-at-home-2219926.html


Last edited by doctor_grey on Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : inclusion of web address for cited article)

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Post by robbo277 Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:14 pm

Dylan had moved from his native New Zealand to England eight years ago, initially played for Worcester Warriors and at the early age of 19 became a member of the England Under 21 squad, showing the innate football ability and competitive attitude to succeed.

He had been initially called up for England Under 18s while staying with relatives in Crowborough and being involved with the local Sussex club. Educated at Rotorua Boys High School, he went on to cover all three England front row positions during the 2005 IRB World Championship in Argentina.

Source: http://www.rfu.com/SquadsAndPlayers/EnglandElite/DylanHartley.aspx

Doesn't give definitive answers. He has relatives in Crowborough, but that doesn't mean his parents are English, or even that he has any English blood-relatives.
However, he must have been in England before he was 18 to have played for England U18s. He went to Worcester when he was 19, but played club rugby in Sussex before then. I'm from Sussex, and Crowborough aren't a massive club. They wouldn't be bringing in 14-16 year olds from New Zealand, more likely he came over for other reasons.

http://www.crowboroughrugby.com/the-club/3/147/past-players.html

Crowborough say he played in their Under 16 team, meaning he was probably 15 when he came over here, possibly 16 if he just caught the back end of the season.

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Post by Montague Withnail Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:14 pm

The wikipedia article mentions twice the fact that he was born in New Zealand but doesn't mention at all that he is half English. Not exactly the key fact about his life but let's face it there are those who make a huge song and dance about his apparent non-Englishness it so it should really be on there.

Actually it's a ridiculously negative article about him focusing almost entirely on eye gouging. I'm not saying that incident and ban should not be duely recorded just that I would have thought more of a balanced article would for instance include his well noted performance against Wales in the 2011 6Ns.

Who knows how to modify the Wiki articles? Juggler, where are you now?

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Post by nottins Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:23 pm

Anyone can amend Wiki articles, just click on Edit.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:27 pm

doctor_grey wrote:Not sure his parentage,

Are you suggesting he looks a bit like the milkman?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:30 pm

His middle name's Ernie, isn't it?

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Post by maestegmafia Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:39 pm

red_stag wrote:According to Wiki, moved to England in 2000 (aged 14), attended Beacon Community College in Sussex.

I read that he attended Crowborough school in Sussex?

There does seem to be inaccuracies.

Grannygate?

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Post by red_stag Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:43 pm

Maesteg,

I checked Crowborough RFC and it says he played for Crowborough RFC, Beacon Community College and Rotorua.
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Post by nottins Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:54 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
I read that he attended Crowborough school in Sussex?

There does seem to be inaccuracies.

Grannygate?

Not Grannygate. That only applied to Wales and Scotland. Dylan has an English mother.

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Post by HammerofThunor Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:57 pm

Wouldn't matter anyway as he was here for more than 3 years before playing. So far it's only Wales and Scotland who have played illegal players (as far as I'm aware) Wink

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:59 pm

luckless_pedestrian wrote:His middle name's Ernie, isn't it?

And a lot of people have suggested hes a righ b' stard at times.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:02 pm

Maybe the IRB should start basing qualification on what it says on wikipedia rather than the extensive documnetation it requires now (thanks to the welsh Wink )

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Post by robbo277 Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:45 pm

Crowborough is a town, not a school. Beacon Community College is a secondary school in Crowborough. He played for the school team (Beacon Community College) and his local club team (Crowborough), as well as his club in New Zealand (Rotorua).

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Post by TheGreyGhost Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:08 pm

Do you think he learned the off the ball stuff post 16 years of age, or before?

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Post by snoopster Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:10 pm

The good things in England, the bad things in New Zealand. Of course.

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Post by nottins Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:27 pm

TheGreyGhost wrote:Do you think he learned the off the ball stuff post 16 years of age, or before?

Before. Some good teachers of that in NZ.

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Post by TheGreyGhost Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:56 pm

Do you have the exact same number of posts as me, because you just follow me around being antagonistic?

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Post by nottins Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:59 pm

TheGreyGhost wrote:Do you have the exact same number of posts as me, because you just follow me around being antagonistic?

No.

You asked the question about "off the ball" being pre or post 16. I just answered you. Also you were the one who started being antagonistic on this thread, I just replied in kind. OK

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Post by TheGreyGhost Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:17 pm

I hope you have evidence to back up your assertion then. I'd hate you to have to retract your post.

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Post by HammerofThunor Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:18 pm

Pack it in the pair of you.

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Post by red_stag Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:21 pm

Get a room. Can't you just feel the awkward tension between them thumbsup
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Post by Breadvan Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:26 pm

If there's ever a topic thats had the bum kicked out of it, it's qualification rules and residency. raspberry


Last edited by Breadvan on Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Cymroglan Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:26 pm

Probably qualifies because he has been selected Very Happy

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Post by greybeard Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:21 pm

Breadvan wrote:If there's ever a topic thats had the bum kicked out of it, it's qualification rules and residency. raspberry

You've obviously never done time on an Irish anthems debate.

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Post by snoopster Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:04 pm

greybeard wrote:
Breadvan wrote:If there's ever a topic thats had the bum kicked out of it, it's qualification rules and residency. raspberry

You've obviously never done time on an Irish anthems debate.

anyone care to start of a short, polite discussion about the haka? angel

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Post by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:34 pm

Is Henson eligible to sing the Irish anthems (while doing the Haka) or does he have to wait until Phil Vickery retires?

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Post by maestegmafia Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:47 pm

nottins wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
I read that he attended Crowborough school in Sussex?

There does seem to be inaccuracies.

Grannygate?

Not Grannygate. That only applied to Wales and Scotland. Dylan has an English mother.

back up your statements with facts...

if he has an english mother, why dont you prove it with a link to something that clarifies your statement?

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Post by Cymroglan Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:51 pm

There are numerous links that state he has a English mother called Caroline

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Post by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:55 pm

Cymroglan wrote:There are numerous links that state he has a English mother called Caroline

Here's one: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/6608096/Englands-Kiwi-hooker-Dylan-Hartley-relishing-first-haka-at-Twickenham.html

"His parents, father Guy and English mother Caroline, will be watching the match from their home town of Kaharoa, a suburb of Rotorua, along with many childhood friends who have yet to see him play professional rugby"

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Post by nottins Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:58 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
nottins wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
I read that he attended Crowborough school in Sussex?

There does seem to be inaccuracies.

Grannygate?

Not Grannygate. That only applied to Wales and Scotland. Dylan has an English mother.

back up your statements with facts...

if he has an english mother, why dont you prove it with a link to something that clarifies your statement?

If you'd read the thread, you would have realised there were already several links on this thread that prove that his mother Caroline is English. Or did you want me to provide the links for Grannygate that involved Scotland and Wales ?

Please stop attempting to troll.

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Post by maestegmafia Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:09 pm

Cymroglan wrote:There are numerous links that state he has a English mother called Caroline
I noticed, my post was in response to the manner in which the above poster tries to incite argument rather than enjoy forum debate and discussion.

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Post by nottins Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:12 pm

And you weren't trying to incite an argument by mentioning Grannygate ?

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Post by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:47 pm

Hey guys, I think we've firmly established now that he has an English mother. Let's leave the grannygate stuff alone eh? It's not going to add anything productive here, I think we can all agree with that. Thank you.

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Post by HammerofThunor Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:50 pm

Dreamer, I got what I wanted (the quote from Hartley saying he was 16 and the article saying he had an English mother). Close the thread if you want/can. Nobody can really add anything constructive now

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Post by Adam D Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:16 pm

http://gb.zinio.com/browse/publications/index.jsp?productId=500216249

the answer is in this months Rugby World.

Just thought I would point that out!

Over at 16 on a school exchange and stayed!
thanks to Paul Morgan Rugby who told me!

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Post by Adam D Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:33 pm

Just had a tweet from Dylan Hartley himself to clarify! What a top guy!

at 16 unofficial school exchange, stayed with relatives in crow. attended and played for beacon alongside crow rfc. mother is fully english

Hopefully that clears it up for you all.

Thanks to Dylan for taking the time.

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Post by Cymroglan Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:37 pm

Just to be on the safe side could you tweet Jeremy Kyle just to get confirmation on parentage,

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Post by Adam D Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:38 pm

@jeremykyle go fuhfuh yourself cymroglan

Well I never! What a potty mouth!

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