Fixtures - 6

First topic message reminder :

Matches to be played Friday 29th July

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Saracens vs. Bath Rugby

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Saracens
Manager – LDCPete

01. Matt Mullan	09. Paul Hodgson
02. Gary Botha	10. Iain Humphreys
03. Brok Harris
04. Rynhard Elstadt	11. Rene Ranger
05. Steve Borthwick	12. Owen Farrell
06. Joe van Niekerk	13. Nevin Spence
07. George Smith	14. Tim Visser
08. Rodney So'oialo	15. Alex Goode

16. George Chuter 17. Alex Waller 18. Phil Swainston 19. Graham Kitchener 20. Luke Narraway 21. Haydn Thomas 22. Billy Twelvetrees 23. Tom Homer

Tactics

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Bath Rugby
Manager – inthefastlane

01. Jon Golding	09. Richard Wigglesworth
02. Lee Mears	10. Brock James
03. Petrus du Plessis
04. Louis Deacon	11. Tom Varndell
05. Sam Whitelock	12. Wynand Olivier
06. Sean O’Brien	13. Francois Steyn
07. Beau Robinson	14. Richard Haughton
08. Johnnie Beattie	15. Tim Nanai-Williams

16. Kane Newport 17. Lee Ward 18. James Currie 19. James Cannon 20. Tom Guest 21. Chris Cook 22. Steven Shingler 23. Kurtley Beale

Tactics

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Newcastle Falcons vs. Exeter Chiefs

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Newcastle Falcons
Manager – Sgt Pooly

01. Boris Stankovich	09. Sarel Pretorious
02. William Servat	10. Jonny Wilkinson
03. Owen Franks
04. Dean Schofield	11. Miles Benjamin
05. Paul O’Connell(c)	12. Maxime Mermoz
06. Juan Smith	13. Conrad Smith
07. Heinrich Brussow	14. Topsy Ojo
08. Duane Vermeulen	15. Ben Smith

16. Tom Lindsay 17. Paul Doran-Jones 18. Fabien Barcella 19. Geoff Parling 20. Kieran Read 21. Jonny Arr 22. Colin Slade 23. Tom Catterick

Tactics
Normal Falcons high intensity tactics......compete in pack and target lineout with numerous jumpers. Control breakdown and look to attack with turnover ball.

Pretorious to attack the fringes and Wilko to call the shots in the backline. Smith to marshall backline with Ben Smith coming into the line. Mermoz to attack the line and look to get the flyers into the game whenever possible.

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Exeter Chiefs
Manager – Driver

01. Cian Healy	09. Nick Phipps
02. John Smit(c)	10. Steven Myler(k)
03. Euan Murrey
04. Julien Pierre	11. Adam Thompstone
05. George Skivington	12. Regan King
06. Kelly Brown	13. Max Evans
07. Shane Jennings	14. Iain Balshaw
08. Carl Fearns	15. George Pisi

16. Ben Kayser 17. Tom Mercey 18. Jack Forster 19. Simon Shaw 20. Dave Wallace 21. Charlie Pilgrim 22. Ronan O'Gara 23. Matt Smith

Tactics

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Worcester Warriors vs. Gloucester

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Worcester Warriors
Manager – prop_lyd

01. David Flatman	09. Jordi Pasqualin
02. Richardt Strauss	10. Nicky Robinson
03. BJ Botha
04. Ben Gulliver	11. Marcel Garvey
05. Jim Hamilton	12. Nils Mordt
06. Ryan Jones ©	13. Jon Clarke
07. Scott Higginbotham	14. Julien Malzieu
08. Ben Morgan	15. Olly Morgan

16. Koree Britton 17. George Porter 18. Yann Thomas 19. Peter Short 20. Sebastian Chabal 21. Dwayne Peel 22. Sam Vesty 23. Rob Cook

Tactics

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Gloucester
Manager – anonmattyt

01. Coonie Oustehuizen	09. Dave Lewis
02. Deon Fourie	10. Stephen Donald
03. James Johnstone
04. George Robson	11. James Simpson-Daniel
05. James Hanks	12. Berrick Barnes
06. Mauri Fa’asivalu	13. Rob Horne
07. Andy Saull	14. Paul Diggin
08. Brett Deacon	15. Charlie Sharples

16. Nick Wood 17. Adrian Strauss 18. Rupert Harden 19. Peter Buxton 20. Andy Hazell 21. Ryan Lamb 22. Jonny May 23. Scott Hamilton

Tactics

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Harlequins vs. Leicester Tigers

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Harlequins
Manager – Steven_Sharks

01. Joe Marler	09. Lee Dickson
02. Matthew Rees	10. Quade Cooper
03. John Afoa
04. Nathan Sharpe	11. Joe Rokocoko
05. James Gaskell	12. Anthony Faainga
06. Francois Louw	13. Gonzalo Canale
07. Sam Warburton	14. Jonathan Joseph
08. Phil Dowson	15. Rob Kearney

16. Schalk Brits 17. Kieran Brookes 18. Brian Mujati 19. Tom Donnelly 20. Jamie Gibson 21. Ryan Glynn 22. Freddie Burns 23. George Lowe

Tactics
We are going to look to use our strong back line to cause problems straight of the first phase a la the Queensland Reds. We are going to play a fast paced game in attack but we have picked a big pack to make sure we get quick ball. We have also picked a strong back row which we feel will flourish in an open game.

Looking for how people would rate my backline against the other full strength back lines in the league.

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Leicester Tigers
Manager – lukelovesluka

01. Gethin Jenkins	09. Dimitri Yachvilli (k)
02. Matt Thompson	10. Rob Miller
03. Ben Franks
04. Jarrad Hoeata	11. Rupeni Caucaunibuca
05. Chris Jack (c)	12. Yannick Jauzion
06. Johnathan Poff	13. Aurelien Rougerie
07. Magnus Lund	14. Tom Biggs
08. Thomas Waldrom	15. Cory Jane

16. Dan Murphy 17. Tom Youngs 18. Cencus Johnston 19. Tom Denton 20. Jordan Crane 21. Ben Youngs 22. David Skrela 23. Isa Nacewa

Tactics

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London Wasps vs. Northampton Saints

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London Wasps
Manager – ‘Arry

01. Perry Freshwater	09. Michael Classens
02. Steve Thompson ©	10. Jimmy Gopperth
03. Carlos Nieto
04. Stuart Hooper	11. Drew Mitchell
05. Marco Wentzel	12. James Downey
06. Tom Johnson	13. Stirling Mortlock
07. Deon Stegmann	14. Tom Williams
08. Dan Ward-Smith	15. Mike Borwn

16. Tatafu Polota-Nau 17. Benn Robinson 18. James Slipper 19. Mark Chisholm 20. James Haskell 21. Luke Burgess 22. Rory Clegg 23. Noah Cato

Tactics

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Northampton Saints
Manager – Dammit_Chris

01. Dave Wilson	09. Joe Simpson
02. Rob Webber	10. Lionel Beauxis
03. Carl Hayman
04. Dave Attwood	11. Manu Tuilagi
05. Patricio Albacete (c)	12. Willie Mason
06. Simon Taylor ©	13. Casey Lualala
07. Alexandre Lapandry	14. Leigh Halfpenny
08. Ryan Kankowski	15. Danny Cipriani

16. Chris Whitehead 17. Henry Thomas 18. Zak Taulafo 19. Calum Clark 20. Tom Rees 21. Luke Watson 22. Mike Phillips 23. Siti Sivivatu

Tactics

We've picked a more mobile pack than Wasps and have got for a 5-2 split on the bench because we want to move them around the park and play the game at pace. We want to keep the ball in play as much as possible and keep the speed up in order to target a slower and older pack.

In attack we will alternate with Beauxis and Cipriani to attack in the 10 channel, we have picked Mason and Lualala as the midfield axis to provide hard running options through the middle and picked Manu Tuilagi to play opposite Tom Williams, mainly so I can see repeats of...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnJUhpGvkaI

talk about whiplash...

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Sale Sharks vs. London Irish

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Sale Sharks
Manager – SJE

01. Jerome Schuster	09. Nicholas Bezy
02. David Paice	10. Aaron Cruden
03. Neemia Tialata
04. Steven Sykes	11. Lelia Masaga
05. Andries Bekker	12. Jordan Turner Hall
06. Victor Vito	13. Robbie Freuen
07. Michael Lipman	14. Luke Rooney
08. Wycliffe Palu	15. Nick Abendanoon

16. Lee Imolek 17. Brett Sharman 18. Werner Kruger 19. Christian Day 20. Andy Powell 21. Shaun Perry 22. Olly Barkley 23. Sam Smith

Tactics
Target the set piece with strong front 5. Attacking wise strong ball carrying game working the offloading. Changing the point of attack constantly. Use the exciting halfbacks to inject creativity into the game

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London Irish
Manager – stnick88

01. Matias Aguero	09. Julien Dupuy
02. James Buckland	10. Daniel Bowden
03. WP Nel
04. Mouritz Botha	11. Paul Sackey
05. Nick Kennedy	12. Mathieu Bastareaud
06. Keegan Daniel	13. Matthew Tait
07. Hendre Fourie	14. JP Pietersen
08. Xavier Rush	15. Joe Maddock

16. Tonga Lea'atoea 17. Neil Briggs 18. Duncan Bell 19. Matt Garvey 20. Joe Worsley 21. Neal De Kock 22. Gonzalo Tiesi 23. Juan Martin Hernandez

Tactics

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LDCPete wrote:What you confused about Driver?

I think i'm confused to how people rate Skivington to be honest mate , he's good in the lineout and in the real world would secure his own ball against most people including POC , but i seem to be getting picked on at the set piece.

Also i like the fact that people are picking up on that my pack has carriers in it but wondering whether this affects me at scrum time?

I'm thinking of going 4. Hudson 5. Skivington next week and am curios to what people would make of that in the loose at set piece?

players like Halfpenny, Cueto etc and players in that sort of mould I see as strong in the wet

Hudson and Skivington would be fine at lineout and may have stolen a few of falcons who I don't really feel have great options in this game past POC and Schofield

Steve mate,

Just interested to see where you see weaknesses in my back 3?

Skivington is a good solid AP player for me Driver, who would do the basics well, but I would mark him as not quite up there with top draw international locks. Also he didn't have a great year last year, which was injury interrupted, so doesn't carry in good form which if he did, would bump him up for me a little against slightly better players.

Masaga and Rooney really have no form to speak of and Abendonon is great on the attack but I feel Dupuy and Bowden have the kicking games to find him out positionally in this one.

I really like Skivs Driver but the lineout is not the strongest part of his game by a long shot. He's a little like 4.5 (Palmer/Whitelock) decent in the lineout and good around the park.

Don't think it's any issue stating POC would give him issues in the lineout, POC has took apart many an International set piece.

agree with pooly he is a bit of an all rounder.
not sure him and hudson provide enough grunt.
shaw/skivs or shaw/hudson may be a better combo.

I'm a big fan of Skivs too!

Steven_Sharks wrote:Masaga and Rooney really have no form to speak of and Abendonon is great on the attack but I feel Dupuy and Bowden have the kicking games to find him out positionally in this one.

Masaga was the best wing in super 15 and in great form

This year?? You having a laugh? He was nowhere near the best wing in it! What I saw of him he was okay but no where near his form of the season before when he was brilliant.

I thought he had a pretty decent year again to be honest. Great finisher.

Driver I really rate Skivs, think he is an awesome player and should be in the England set up. He actually had a really good season from December onwards, took him a while to learn the calls and constantly had a new partner in the opening few months. Got great write ups in most games post Christmas. REad that he was leading most of the lineout calls too for Tigers. Another great player Wasps sadly let go, trouble is I think he's very good in a lot of areas but I dont think he is excellent in one particular.

Not really sure why he gets marked down like you say, there are a lot worse locks out there who get praised - I think being at Leicester next year will help him again, espc as more coverage in the Heineken Cup again!

Steve,

Planet rugby have it as a dead heat between Poki and Masaga for a wing spot on their team of the season. Wouldnt go as far as Matt and say he was the best winger this year but he had a pretty good season. Not many played better then him at all. Fantastic finisher with a record of about a try every two games. Rooney had a fairly solid season for a poor Rebels side as well

Driver,

I like Skivs hes a top premiership lock but POC for me was probably the only man you would back to steal a ball or two from a prime on form Victor Matfield. He is fantastic at the lineout and is a step up from what Skivs is used to playing. Would expect him to pick a few balls but wouldnt dominate Skivs at all.

Results are a bit off again as some are putting out WC teams and some not, I've predo'd on sides but tried to point out things for both sides.

Saracens 20-24 Bath

Front 3 shades to Sarries with Harris being stronger than Du Plessis but nothing in the other 2. Elstadt looks a talent but Deacon is currently stronger, both locks go to Bath. Good backrow battle, SOB stronger than JVN but I think Smith shades Robinson (2 cracking battles). Although little form from Beattie, he has played more in the last year than Rodney and gives Bath the backrow and back 5/pack.

Close halfback battle, fan of all 4 but prefer the Bath players/combo. Not sure of Steyn at 13 but too much power and experience for the Sarries pair. Really think the Sarries midfield needs at least one player with more than a season in the top flight behind him. 15's close but prefer the Saracens wingers, great combo.

Bath take the pack, half backs and centres in this one and see them having too much for Saracens.


Worcester 22-19 Gloucester

Interesting front row battle. Not a strong scrummaging unit form Gloucester with Coonie prob the strongest in the set piece and Fourie not a great basics hooker, although they offer alot in the loose. Slightly the opposite for Worcester with Strauss a bit of both but a strong set piece. Hamilton prob the standout in the engine room and better lineout options for Worcester. Hanks isn't a great player and I need to see more of Gulliver in the top flight although he looked strong at Champ level. Bit of inbalance in the Worcester backrow but all 3 are stronger than their Gloucester counterparts. Pack goes to Worcester in this one, esp the backrow.

I'm seeing halfbacks pretty even with no real standout performer but Donald could do with the better ball Worcester will get to thrive. Barnes and Horne lack any form but as a combo are nice, Barnes the standout and will dominate opposition. Back 3's pretty close, see Garvey/Diggin pretty close, Malzieu would give JSD's defence all sorts of tests and Sharples a bit more form than Morgan and pretty similar at FB.

Pack control see's Worcester through, If Barnes/Horne had form they could have maybe made a differnce.


Harlequins 27-23 Leicester

Good up front battle that wouldn't give an edge in set piece and loose. I like Gaskell at 5 but don't think Sharpe has the grunt to compliment him although great lineout options. Leicester combo has a very nice balance and good form/quality. Can't say I've seen much of Poff and prefer the Quins 6/7 combo which is very impressive. Waldroum/Dowson pretty tight but Quins backrow stronger. Pack very very close in this one.

One a piece in the halfbacks but Quins combo much stronger with Miller a weakness. Huge Leicester centre pairing that didn't work at Int level but would do damage here, think Fritz would be a better option alongside Jauzion. Pretty good centre combo from Quins although not at the level of some of the stronger combo's in the league. Back 3's very tight, hard to rate Kearney.

I think with a stronger 10 Leicester would have this one but a great backrow and stronger halfbacks give Quins the edge.

Steve....on your backline. I think Dickson/Cooper is a good combo, Kelleher when back playing will further improve this. Centre combo is decent but lacks a real spark perhaps being critical, neither are really top class but I think they give you a steady centre pairing. Roko is not as good as he was but has played well over the year and gives your side a finisher. Kearney class obviously but no form. Joseph is a wekness against the better wingers in this league. A good prospect but there's many better English wingers, I'd try not to play him against full stregnth oppostion. I'd prob look to go Lowe at 13 instead of Canale and play a foreign winger.



Wasps 26-24 Northampton

Stronger scrummaging unit for Wasps, Nieto will get at Wilson who isn't great at LH. More quality and presence from the Saints engine room but no real advantage at lineout. Not much in the backrow, prefer TJ over taylor, Lapandry over Stegman and kank prob shades DWS although I'm no fan. Packs close, tiny edge to Saints but issues in scrum.

Think Claassens brings a bit more control than Simpson and prefer Gopperth to Beauxis so shading to Wasps. Can't rate Mason (I won't put this again as getting boring!) and quite like the Wasps combo, would bring a real physical threat. Tuilagi shades Williams...Mitchell much better than Halfpenny(form wise esp) and Brown prob shades Cips at FB.

See Saints edging pack but Gopperth the man to put away scrum pens and Wasps backline have a bit more about them.


Sale 22-17 Irish
Much stronger front row unit from Sale, in the set piece and loose. Same again in the engine room with tow stronger players. Very strong Sale front 5 that will give most issues, Irish need an injection of Int quality to contest. Prefer Vito to Daniel (his lack of phsical presence is dealt with well with Fourie and Rush and he'll thrive) Lipman/Fourie is a tight one and a great battle, Rush over Palu though with Palu's lack of form. Pack to Sale altough good backrow battle.

Prefer Dupey at 9 and Cruden at 10, both petty good combo's though. I prefer the Sale centre combo just, mostly due to Tait lacking form, fan of big Bast though. Irish possibly shade the wingers in a tight affir but prefer Abendonon at FB over Maddock.

Sale to control pack and have enough in the backs to see them through. Good game though from two impressiv sides.

Steven

Just picking up on Pooly saying that Joseph would be a weakness against the better wingers in this league. During the World Cup when the real top drawer wingers are away I personally wouldn't mark you down for JJ at all, as he has good basics, defends well, reads the game well and can finish. Even when the WC players are back, if you had him in your backline alongside a couple of world class players and others with experience I wouldn't see him as a weakness at all.

(Not knocking your rating of him Pooly, meant to mention him in my predo but forgot)

Yea no offence Pete, you prob see alot more of him than me.

I was responding to Steve saying it was his strongest backline. Looking at the players he could come up against Gear, Jane, Ranger, JOC, Bowe etc....I'd see JJ as a weakness.

Not a huge one but still a weakness, he's still young and a little raw for me.

Sarries v Bath - even in the front row with bath edging the locks battle. sarries backrow is an ageing one but has talent and experience to combat a quality bath unit. prefer the backline has bit more experience and power.
20-24

newcastle v exetr - on paper a great front 8 for falcons but brussow, smith and servat lacking form for me. not servat so much but definitly the other two and dont think poc is on the greatest form. good forwards from exeter make for an even battle here. step up in class for the backs for falcons. think king needs a power player with him. like pisi at fb. good player.
27-23

worcester v gloucester - close game in the forwards prefer higginbotham at 6. think glos forwards lack a bit of class although fasivalu on good form. if barnes hits form then provides real spark for glos. enough in the backs to sneak this.
18-20

quins v tigers - even fron five battle but slightly prefer quins backrow. no miller fan and think cooper will ignite the backline to victory.
24-22

wasps v saints - some good players on show and will be a tight battle upfront. wasps edge scrum. alot of power in both backlines. both lack a bit of flair but think wasps have bit more form.

26-24

Pooly what do I have to do to get a win out you ???

Put a better team out than your opposition lol

I'm totally unbiased come predo's mate, just play it how I see it. Think your getting took apart in the pack a bit lately if I'm brutally honest.

Thought I was the only one to give Prop the win after that comment, it's a pretty close game mate.

I think your engine room and backrow arnt as strong as others. Your front row isn't great in the set piece either. Lewis isn't a great SH (Arr is better IMO and I wouldn't start him)

Backline is very strong tho

Surprised to be honest. Fasivalu probably best 6 in Prem last couple of months in season and robson was on fire and talked of as England for last half of season. Johnstone was also a monster second half of season so surprised at pack comments that's all.

Hanks a ton above gulliver and one of exeters best players so saw the engine room as a walkover which is why I asked.. Also Garvey no where near Diggin for me. Garvey not a certain starter for worcester and glos canned him as he was poor.

Just trying to understand views as I thought i would have killed this yet
It's close.

Not having a go but generally confused

Guys as a footnote to above can you give me feedback.

My main confusion is around johnstone and robson who according to every pundit were exceptional last year and fasivalu who was acknowledged as a top 6 and behind quins revival.

Form plays such a large part and along with coonie and Fourie ( had 1 bad game lineout wise and second rows as much to blame yet sje and pooly seize on this) my front row bang in form as are the others.

I can understand barnes and Horne being picked on for lack of for
. Barnes like juan smith, carter etc cut slack due to class and I appear one of the only big Horne fan.

Just struggle to understand my back row and second
Row being picked on when so many of them have form.

Please explain as I do not understand where I have gone wrong. I expect to win as many as I lose during wc as I have so many internationals. Mid table would be a result and then I expect to kick on with people back.

However with current opinions I will be bottom and I don't understand why. Thanks in advance

Just saying it how I see it mate. Props backrow is much stronger here, you have decent prem players on show but he has Higginbottom(one of if not best flankers in S15 and Jones a 50 cap Welsh Int...and Morgan who's better than Deacon imo)

I don't think I picked you up for lineout as Robson is a good operator here, didn't hear of the England talk though. No fan of Hanks though. Fa'asavalui you're best backrow on show by a fair bit but don't think he'd get in Props lineup on show.

Just giving honest opinions mate, not sure what others think. I really like Coonie but think he needs a strong scrummaging hooker and TH, I'd def play Strauss (quality) over Fourie (not good basics) and I'm not a fan of Johnstone in the set piece at all.

Missed your comments there.

Johnstone isn't great, had a few decent games against poor opposition. Robson is good in the lineout but offers nothing else imo. Don't think Robson is a weakness though, paired with a decent enforcer he'd be good.

Fourie had many poor games Matt and was eventually dropped as his scrummaging and throw were not up to scratch, commentators and coach pretty much said that one game.

Prop has a few more WC players in Higginbottom and Jones on show also Matt.

Cheers for feedback. Fourie was never dropped but was benches for altitude games as you need an impact and then was carrying injury. Fourie scrums really well and better than Strauss although Strauss better player currently.

Fourie captain of western
Province first 2 games and now
Lienbenberg is for next game as they are fairly equal and
Both quality.

You yourself said how good robson was and what has gulliver done?? Higginbotham is class and should be picked rather than rocky yet
Jones has been dire yet I rate him. Robson played a lot of 4 and as you said often he is a great player although a 4.5

Thanks fr feedback. Personally robson and fasivalu are mustard and key reasons to challenge cup win. Evans or robson were mom depending on where you read.

It was Evans only decent game
Of season but shows
Class outs when in big games. He is a winner full stop

I've never said that about Robson Matt, maybe Palmer?!?! Robson decent AP lock but def a 5, doesn't offer much in loose. I think he v good in lineout but not much else.

I'll stand by Fourie poor scrummager, seen the change when that old guy came on and that's why fourie was benched for later games. Commentators and even coach said the same.

I've not said Guliver better than Robson. Said hanks was poor and Guliver need to prove himself at Prem level, although impressive in Champ.

I'm just giving you thoughts mate.

I'd say the form of Care, Evans and Easter was reason main reason for Quins success last season. Not sure where you get that Evans played one good game all season lol....if that's your opinion though that's fine. I'm not having a go just giving you feedback where you wanted it.

"It was Evans only decent game Of season"

I think you may be alone on that one Matt, Evans had a fantastic season.

Nah appreciate it as mentioned not expecting much during WC. Robson was a beast last year and is top top player. Personally not an international but as good as you get Prem wise.

I am probably biggest fan of Evans you would ever find.
He was Toss last season but when it mattered he was fantastic. Sign of class. He has always been injury prone which is not surprising as he is tiny and yet tackles really well. Also rarely for a 10 he is explosive pace wise.

If nz had Evans as back up I would think they were nailed on.

Personally I feel nz have no depth at 9, 10, 8 ,3 which are the key positions. They need luck injury wise to win

Pooly evans had bad season but as said best ten in Prem by a mile. Think most agree.

Also he has developed clegg

Evans came good April and delivered silver ware sign of class

If that's Evans being toss I'd hate to see him in form, not quite sure what you're going on about but happy to leave it as most seem to rate him quite highly.

As I said Evans one of best tens in world. Maybe carried injuries most of year then was great. As you will see always give you points for him in predos

Think him and wilko are great 10 options.

Wonder why hayman, Evans et al leave nz and chance of becoming legends. Think nz now adressing pay thru image rights as carter and macaw staying. To be fair carter poor most of year until last few games.

Read probably only ab to have good super 15 with guildford

Fair points Matt

Will get my predo's in soon!

Saracens 20 - 22 Bath
Feel that Bath have that added bit of spark in their back line that just sneaks them a win here. Very impressive sets of back rows on show from both sides here.

Newcastle 25 - 23 Exeter
Strong sides on show here, very impressive packs from both teams. Pooly has that extra bit of quality here which wins him the game.

Worcester 20 - 18 Gloucester
Prefer the Worcester pack to the Gloucester one, think they will get the better and quicker ball which will see them sneak a win.

Quins 22 - 21 Tigers
Cooper wins this one with a moment of brilliance. Very hard to seperate the two teams.

Sale 23 - 20 London Irish
Think that Sale can control the forward battle here and control the rest of the game from there, again very hard to seperate the two sides, some very tight calls in each department.

Pooly with your comments on Mason - here's his first try in union for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrDjLwZqag4

Playing in a world XV in Hong Kong, which has some big names involved.

Here's Mason setting up a try for Basteraud:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT2jvPummDE&feature=related

I reckon that he'll be just fine in union, and his defence at 12 wont be an issue - if he was a 13 then its very different but he's a huge lump and was known for being one of the best defenders in league history.

Chris, he's still not played a proper game in union e.g. A club game. Give him half a dozen/dozen games to settle in and get used to the game.

Barbarians/showcase rugby is not rugby. I can't judge a player on 3 friendly games.

I don't watch league so have no opinion of him so need to see how he gets on in France first. He may be quality, I've got absolutely no idea as he's not played a proper game of union yet.

I watch a fair bit of T14 and will keep an eye on how he gets on. Not picking on him just can't rate somebody I've not seen play.

he was a far better league player than sonny bill williams was - he's an absolute unit. I hope he makes it and with his skill set should make a very good 12. His offloading skills can put SBW's to shame.

Only concern I have is that he is 31, think if he was 3-4 years earlier he'd make the Aussies test team as a 12.

I'll have to bow to your league knowledge Chris, no idea about it. Watched a bit of Leeds Rhino's when I lived there but found it boring. If he turns out half as good as SBW I'm sure he'll be an asset.

Just a little link on how Mason was viewed in league before switching over.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/rugby/view/189885/Sidelined-Willie-Mason-s-a-bad-joke-/Sidelined-Willie-Mason-s-a-bad-joke-Sidelined-Willie-Mason-s-a-bad-joke-Sidelined-Willie-Mason-s-a-bad-joke-Sidelined-Willie-Mason-s-a-bad-joke-Sidelined-Willie-Mason-s-a-bad-joke-

"Mason, now 31, was past his sell-by date two years ago and has lost his hunger for the game. Bad news seems to follow him wherever he goes.

And another one about his union debut:
https://johnevely21.wordpress.com/2011/06/03/what-is-all-the-fuss-about-willie-mason/

He will have to prove himself in union properly first before he can be rated. Playing friendlys is not going to help with that

Chris

Mason was not as good as SBW. he was idolised in Oz because he was a hard man (thug in my eyes)

Pooly

This video sums the man up. Reckons he's the hardest thing since Ali but is just a thug. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja2YHxQKUHc

He might be a decent crash ball merchant in Union

He seems like a nice chap lol

SJE I'm not really sure what your two stories are meant to highlight? One slates Mason for his time at Hull KR, which is basically that in league you are only allowed 'x' number of non-European's. They promised Mason one of those spots, but turns out they already registered the permitted allowance and had to get him onto a Tongan passport. He didn't want to be registered as a Tongan and Hull KR broke their contract with him. And its also from the Daily Star, the world's worst newspaper. Its also written by Gary Schofield, who just writes bile about everyone.

And the other story you post is from a postgraduate on wordpress! I could write a better story than that - if you watch league you know that he's a very, very good player (who has been known to get in a fight or two...).

If you want to read about him would look at the following comments by Dai Young

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2011/06/05/dai-young-willie-mason-can-succed-in-union-91466-28824156/

Or have a look at his offloading

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E5FxY60d60

I'd have him as one of the all time greats in league, would make an ideal inside centre...

Only interested in this quote from the 1st article mate:
Mason, now 31, was past his sell-by date two years ago and has lost his hunger for the game. Bad news seems to follow him wherever he goes.

Read some where else that he was supposedly voted the most hated player in league. May have been his wiki. He was a good league player but past his prime. Not as good as SBW. SBW was seen as a prodigy in league. Will be interesting to see what Mason will bring to Union is he here to prove himself or just for the cash? Going by his persoanl history I'd say hes only here for a pay cheque...

Was Young not the Barbarians coach? I highly doubt he is going to publicly slate Mason is he? Like I said in my predos based on his barbarians games he looks like he can bring a good carrying game but defense is suspect. He most definately isnt used to the tackle area yet.

He's definitely a bit of a bad boy when it comes to some of the stuff he has done in the past, couldnt stand him whenever England or GB played the Aussies. Always put in late hits and was their enforcer. At same time can see what he would bring to union, will get over the gainline every time (he must easily weigh in at 16st?), and his offloading could be so dangerous - just look at the tries he set up versus Wales for the Baabaas. Think Toulon will use him as an impact sub. His defence in Wales game and the Hong Kong game got a lot of praise - guess a lot will depend on how quickly he adapts to union.

Speaking of league players, watched the Wigan game yesterday and if there isnt a union team in the UK that is looking at converting Sam Tomkinson then their scouts arent doing a good job. He is absolutely quality, scored a cracking length of the field try. Wouldnt mind him as Wasps fullback!

Tomkins problem is he has the physique of a 12 yo. I don't think he'd be as well suited to full back in Union as he is in League

lol - i dunno steven, the stuff that boy does with a rugby ball is pretty special! he's tall as well, so think looks are deceiving as he definitely enjoys smashing into the tackle!