Darren Clarke, definitely the right perspective

Just saw an interview and read the highlights (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/golf/14311912.stm) of DC responding to the comments re. his post-Open victory celebrations. Quality response; well done that man!

Rory's comments at the end have helped redeem him in my eyes.

The Chubster is being quoted over here that DC was having trouble with real estate investments, and his aircraft purchase and resale at a heavy loss. Seems like The Open win came at good time for a number of reasons.

Couldn't happen to a more popular feller.

Did people expect him to just go home, have a cup of Horlicks and go to bed?
I'm sure we'd all go out for a pretty big session, after all he's just won one of sports biggest trophies.

Lets be honest he isn't the first and won't be the last to celebrate in such a way, fair play to him i'd have a few pints out of the claret jug if it were me to. Far better that than the god awful BBQ sauce stewart cink had it coated in!

Can anyone say they would have preferred to have seen a David Duval type response to winning The Open? Such moments are few and far between not to mention, fleeting. Make the most of it. I would have expected nothing less from DC and he didn't disappoint!

I agree with everyone else. It's a refreshing change to see a man who knows how to enjoy success and goes for it big-time. I thought his half-cut interview the next day at Sandwich was hilarious and good on him for continuing to celebrate when he got home with his friends and family. If you can't let your hair down and have a few when you've just won a Major, when should you? Well done - and well said, DC!

The guy has every right to go on a complete bender after winning a major, Id expect most people would.
The bigger question is whether you prefer the people who win golfings big events to clearly live that lifestyle for the other 51 weeks a year as it looks like Clarke does.
It just brings up the whole debate again as to whether golf is a sport or a game like darts, snooker and bowling (or indeed whether you class them as sports as well)
Im in two minds to be honest, in some ways its great someone like Clarke can still win (though I wouldnt giove him much of a chance in any of the other 3 majors) as it kind of serves to give hope to us all.
On the flip side I like to see young fit guys winning as it makes it seem more like a sport, and when someone like Clarke wins it makes you realise that your sport of choice as middle aged man isn't really a sport as such and your just kidding yourself it is.

Spot on Darren

Diggers - I don't think anyone thinks you need to be an athlete to be a good golfer. Golf, clearly, isn't a game where you need that supreme fitness.

Having good fitness will improve your chances of being successful, but it's not imperative. The fact that a lot of the younger generation of golfers have training regimes like athletes doesn't change the fact that professionals can be any size.

I'm not bothered about whether people regard it as a sport or not. It's definitely about competing and that's what matters, in my opinion.

The Rules of Golf refers to golf as a game, not a sport.

Diggers wrote:The guy has every right to go on a complete bender after winning a major, Id expect most people would.
The bigger question is whether you prefer the people who win golfings big events to clearly live that lifestyle for the other 51 weeks a year as it looks like Clarke does.

There's no evidence to suggest that Clarke lives on a permanent bender for 52 weeks a year just because he isn't as musclebound as TW. Maybe he eats a bit too much and could exercise more but I'm sure he would weigh that up against actually enjoying life...as he clearly is now.

Diggers wrote:It just brings up the whole debate again as to whether golf is a sport or a game like darts, snooker and bowling (or indeed whether you class them as sports as well)

Er. No, it doesn't.

Diggers wrote:Im in two minds to be honest, in some ways its great someone like Clarke can still win (though I wouldnt giove him much of a chance in any of the other 3 majors) as it kind of serves to give hope to us all.
On the flip side I like to see young fit guys winning as it makes it seem more like a sport, and when someone like Clarke wins it makes you realise that your sport of choice as middle aged man isn't really a sport as such and your just kidding yourself it is.

Why wouldn't you give him any chance in the other 3? He's clearly as good a ball striker as anyone out there, he's accurate, he has a lot of experience now, he can putt and perhaps most importantly, he appears at peace with himself, his game and the World. He may well never win one of the other 3 Majors but I think you're jumping to conclusions based on a bias towards what you think a successful golfer should look like.
I can see the point (slightly) about young, fit guys winning but the arguments about golf being, or not being, a sport are a bit tedious. Golf is clearly a sport. Personally, I like the idea that all sorts of physical builds can win; it just goes to show it's not all about being a gym bunny jock. Long may it continue.

Skills are more important in the game of golf than mere raw strength.

I think Clarke would probably be classified as morbidly obese and he's a smoker. If you call that enjoying life great, but its probably a fairly short sighted way of doing so.
Despite all the debate before the Open about links golf just being golf I think the last Open was very much about links golf skills which was a huge factor in Clarke winning. I didnt say he wouldnt win another major, I said I certainly wouldnt bet on him doing so.
There clearly is a debate to be had as whether its a sport or not, Gael who is clearly a very experienced golfer says game...you say its clearly a sport. Im not 100% convinced either way.

Diggers wrote:I think Clarke would probably be classified as morbidly obese and he's a smoker. If you call that enjoying life great, but its probably a fairly short sighted way of doing so.
Despite all the debate before the Open about links golf just being golf I think the last Open was very much about links golf skills which was a huge factor in Clarke winning. I didnt say he wouldnt win another major, I said I certainly wouldnt bet on him doing so.
There clearly is a debate to be had as whether its a sport or not, Gael who is clearly a very experienced golfer says game...you say its clearly a sport. Im not 100% convinced either way.

He smokes, which isn't good, despite the fact it's up to him. I wouldn't describe him as morbidly obese at all. Over-weight, yes, but I'll allow him the odd and slice of .

I'll leave the game/sport discussion; it's hardly important. It won't stop me playing it whichever way that Earth-shattering decision eventually falls.

I'm not concerned if golf is a sport either, i'll still play it, however if I go to the Doctor with a complaint and he asks what sports I play, I doubt i'd mention Golf, as in exercise terms it's just a walk in the country, even if I play a few times a week.

You may think it a short sighted way of enjoying life it is his life and if he enjoys it whats the issue, he has been through a lot in recent years and is now making to most of his life nothing wrong with that...

As for game/sport does anyone really care if you enjoy it then what does it matter hardly an issue to cause life changing situations for anyone

super_realist wrote:... as in exercise terms it's just a walk in the country, even if I play a few times a week.

What's wrong with a "walk in the country" as exercise? Especially if it's a few times a week?

Navy, your Doctor will quickly retort:
"No, what do you do to get your heart rate up"
I don't consider anything which doesn't get your cardiovascular system going as exercise.
So while walking is better than being sedentary I wouldn't call it proper exercise in terms of fitness.

super_realist wrote:Navy, your Doctor will quickly retort:
"No, what do you do to get your heart rate up"
I don't consider anything which doesn't get your cardiovascular system going as exercise.
So while walking is better than being sedentary I wouldn't call it proper exercise in terms of fitness.

Most health advice not only considers walking sufficient in those terms to get your heart rate up, but positively recommends it. Just because it's anaerobic doesn't mean it's not beneficial.

You'd have to be pretty unfit for walking to raise your pulse by much. Mind you looking at a lot of golfers I suppose walking a bit faster might help them

super_realist wrote:Navy, your Doctor will quickly retort:
"No, what do you do to get your heart rate up"
I don't consider anything which doesn't get your cardiovascular system going as exercise.
So while walking is better than being sedentary I wouldn't call it proper exercise in terms of fitness.

My Doctor, should he or she say that, would be an idiot then. Walking, especially while carrying a golf bag with 14 clubs, balls, umbrella etc for >5-6 km is most definitely going to get your heart rate up. Not like, say, judo training I'll grant, but certainly some way above it's basal levels.

SmithersJones wrote:Most health advice not only considers walking sufficient in those terms to get your heart rate up, but positively recommends it. Just because it's anaerobic doesn't mean it's not beneficial.

I don't wish to be picky, but that'll be aerobic; it's definitely not anaerobic.

super_realist wrote:You'd have to be pretty unfit for walking to raise your pulse by much. Mind you looking at a lot of golfers I suppose walking a bit faster might help them

You'd be surprised how much simply walking will raise your pulse, even on the flat, something which most golf courses are not.

As a basis yes, but it won't raise your overall fitness by much, which is what in my opinion separates a game from a sport. You just need to look around a golf club amongst regular players to see that it doesn't do you that much good.

super_realist wrote:You'd have to be pretty unfit for walking to raise your pulse by much. Mind you looking at a lot of golfers I suppose walking a bit faster might help them

Not really. Typical rhr would be around 70, even if that only increases to 85 it's a 20% increase.

If your resting heart rate is around 70, then you have to work on that. Mine is 38.

The pinnacle of a golfers career is to win a Major would not have blamed him had been pie eyed for the next 12 months, I know had it been me, I would have been

Maverick wrote:You may think it a short sighted way of enjoying life it is his life and if he enjoys it whats the issue, he has been through a lot in recent years and is now making to most of his life nothing wrong with that...

As for game/sport does anyone really care if you enjoy it then what does it matter hardly an issue to cause life changing situations for anyone

I do think its short sighted because his kids have already lost one parent and his lifestyle isn't exactly going to prolong his own existence. So the issue is if you want my honest opinion is that he is actually being selfish.

navyblueshorts wrote:
I don't wish to be picky, but that'll be aerobic; it's definitely not anaerobic.

Of course, my bad. You get the gist though.

oldparwin wrote:The pinnacle of a golfers career is to win a Major would not have blamed him had been pie eyed for the next 12 months, I know had it been me, I would have been

OP, looks like he's been pie-mouthed for 12 months, not pie-eyed.

super_realist wrote:If your resting heart rate is around 70, then you have to work on that. Mine is 38.

I said a typical one. Mine's about 48, even though I'm a fat b'stard.

If you want to lose weight then you have to have a sustained heart rate about 65-70% of your maximum heart rate during exercise. Walking won't do that unless you are a total gutlord.

super_realist wrote:If you want to lose weight then you have to have a sustained heart rate about 65-70% of your maximum heart rate during exercise. Walking won't do that unless you are a total gutlord.

Since when do people take up golf to lose weight? And is losing weight a prerequisite for an activity to count as a sport?

I'm sure they don't take it up to lose weight, but we were asking if it was considered exercise, and given that walking is insufficient to raise the heart rate sufficiently to lose weight for most people, I would say that although it can be loosely described as exercise in comparison to eating pies, it isn't exercise in the true "athletic and sporting" context.

super_realist wrote:I'm sure they don't take it up to lose weight, but we were asking if it was considered exercise, and given that walking is insufficient to raise the heart rate sufficiently to lose weight for most people, I would say that although it can be loosely described as exercise in comparison to eating pies, it isn't exercise in the true "athletic and sporting" context.

So you do think that losing weight, for most people, is a prerequisite for an activity to be considered a sport. Fair enough, but hopefully you can see where that logic leads.

when i go to the doctor and physio because im in throbbing pain with my back i think its pretty important i mention that i play golf 3 times a week like a lunatic in pursuit of a 400 yard drive

No Smithers, I don't think that, but I do believe (my opinion) that in order for something to be a considered a "proper" sport there has to be a reasonable amount of vigorous activity associated with it.
Golf has many sporting elements to it, but I think it misses the one element that separates it from what I consider to be "proper" sports.

In reality though there are probably different categories of sport.

DC was spot on. People who criticise him for celebrating something that has been 20 years in the making should get a life.

On the is golf a sport/game/hobby question. For me it's simple. Golf is shown on Sky Sports NOT Sky games or "non proper sky sports" and before that it was shown on terrestrial tv sport programmes. Golfers are nominated and have won Sports personalities of the year. The olympic games are next year and I know golf isn't in it, but archery is,wrestling is, shooting is,rythmic gymnastics is. Do we class these as games or sports? Before you answer what about athletics which is also in the olympic games?

At the end of the day I don't really care. I play golf because I enjoy it.
It may be less energetic than some "proper sports", but it does include elements that these other "proper sports" don't.

"It may be less energetic than some "proper sports", but it does include elements that these other "proper sports" don't. ."

True enough, most sports dont incorporate a half way house for a burger stop.
Its true, it doesnt matter really, though darts is one of the main "sports" on Sky sports, I even think they have poker on Sky sports, so im not sure that really serves to vaildate it.

Interesting how you referred to golf being a sport on the honoury lifetime ET membership board though. Freudian slip perhaps?

PS - You can have a burger stop although I never have. I suppose I could take up tennis where they sit down, have a drink and a banana every 10 minutes, but I do that playing golf without sitting down.

As I said.Not really bothered, but just seems to be many inconsistencies out there regarding how pastimes are classified or viewed.

Can we see a photo of this super-fit paragon of virtue that is Super-realist? I'm sure Natalie Gulbis would like to see it, too

Faldono1fan wrote:Interesting how you referred to golf being a sport on the honoury lifetime ET membership board though. Freudian slip perhaps?

PS - You can have a burger stop although I never have. I suppose I could take up tennis where they sit down, have a drink and a banana every 10 minutes, but I do that playing golf without sitting down.

As I said.Not really bothered, but just seems to be many inconsistencies out there regarding how pastimes are classified or viewed.

I didnt say I didnt think it was sport, I said I was in two minds about it and its debateable.

I think whether the participants of a pastime wear tailored trousers to partake then it can perhaps be ranked in the lower bracket of sport.
Is that fair?

Faldono1fan wrote:Golf is shown on Sky Sports

That hardly a dictionary definition of sport now is it? Sky Sports show poker as well... is that a sport too?

People who think that playing golf is exercise are sadly fooling themselves. I've never heard of anyone playing golf to "get fit" or "stay in shape", but as super realist says it is just a walk in the park and a doctor would not consider this as a cardio-vascular work out.

I would still classify golf as a sport however, and am sure Darren Clarke does too. He really is quite entitled to celebrate the greatest success in his career.

super_realist wrote:I think whether the participants of a pastime wear tailored trousers to partake then it can perhaps be ranked in the lower bracket of sport.
Is that fair?

Cricketers wear trousers, and that is clearly a sport. Although in the past it may have featured "gutlords" like Mike Gatting, you have to be an athlete to play the modern game.

Cricket is no more a sport than golf, I think they are on a "par" with one another.
I love the quote that "Mike Gatting would have got that one if it were a cheese roll."

Robert Keys, Flintoff, Waugh and Petersen are hardly athletes.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/9436631-golfers-live-longer-than-other-people

I especially like this bit ...

"And the greatest health benefits were seen among golf players with the lowest handicap."

[quote="raycastleunited"]

Faldono1fan wrote:Golf is shown on Sky Sports

That hardly a dictionary definition of sport now is it? Sky Sports show poker as well... is that a sport too?

I wasn't saying it was, but having them all lumped into a channel that has sports in the name adds to the confusion.

[quote="super_realist"]I think whether the participants of a pastime wear tailored trousers to partake then it can perhaps be ranked in the lower bracket of sport.
Is that fair?

In your opinion what is in the higher bracket? Something where you have to wear shorts and trainers?

Something which combines talent, strategy, mental aptitude and a high level of athleticism and physical fitness. Golf requires talent, strategy and mental aptitude but success doesn't depend on you being in shape.

Nothing wrong with that is there?