All Blacks B team to face Springboks

The All Blacks have named what Rugby Week are calling 'a talented B team' to face the Springboks this weekend.

http://www.rugbyweek.com/news/article.asp?id=31580

All Blacks Starting XV:

Number of Test caps in brackets

1. Tony Woodcock (74) , 2. Keven Mealamu - captain (84) , 3. John Afoa (32) , 4. Samuel Whitelock (16) , 5. Ali Williams (64) , 6. Jerome Kaino (40) , 7. Adam Thomson (20) , 8. Liam Messam (8) , 9. Jimmy Cowan (46) , 10. Colin Slade (4) , 11. Hosea Gear (7) , 12. Sonny Bill Williams (6) , 13. Richard Kahui (11) , 14. Isaia Toeava (30) , 15. Israel Dagg (6) ,

Reserves: 16. Andrew Hore (53) , 17. Ben Franks (10) , 18. Jarrad Hoeata (2) , 19. Victor Vito (6) , 20. Andy Ellis (19) , 21. Piri Weepu (47) , 22. Cory Jane (23)


That is a serious 'B' team. A number of players in the side who are clearly not first choice would walk into most test sides. Frightening.

Of interest is Ellis and Weepu on the bench indicating to me that we will see Weepu at 10 at some point in the game, with him being 3rd choice 10 for the World Cup. I also suspect that Kahui, Toeava and Dagg are in effect competing for 2 shirts in the final squads, with Toeava's ability to play in the most positions likely to sway the decision his way.

Any thoughts?

If you look at who's not there, Owen franks, Brad Thorn, Read, McCaw, Carter, Smith, Nonu, and Muliaina.

Still a better ream than most countries can put together.

The depth in NZ is simply amazing.

BUT.

Sa has to win this test. If they don't they will go into the RWC with no hope of beating NZ in the Semi Final. That's to say, if they get that far.

Wow I wish Wales or Scotland could put out an A team that good...

Glad to see Dagg back. Muliaina has not been at top form this year and Dagg could make a late charge at the full back position.

Did you see him for Hawkes Bay at the weekend Munsty? Looked sharp.

Very sharp. I think it will take him most of the first half to adjust to the pace of the game but he will.

Biggest problem with this side though is the back row which looks quite weak to me.

Seems to be a lot of caps in there for a side considered to be their second string but what it does show though is that New Zealand has a squad of very experienced players.
To me a B-side is a side that has several players with very little international experience.

Thing is Munsty, it only looks week in comparison to their normal back row. They are all quality players who will give the Boks a real tough game.

Israel Dagg has the best name in world rugby.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Israel Dagg has the best name in world rugby.

Until Fuifui Moimoi switches from RL at least

Though Hugo Horn and Llewellen Winkler in the Namibia team have claims.

Newport used to have a player called Sven Cronk. That's another name you don't forget.

LDCPete wrote:Thing is Munsty, it only looks week in comparison to their normal back row. They are all quality players who will give the Boks a real tough game.

I don't know if I'd agree with that. Kaino is a quality player so won't argue with that. Messam though has never done it at this level while Thompson just lacks something and going up against Brussow is going to be very tough for him.

I think NZ will be ok on defence in the tight, but perhaps struggle to control the ball accurately on attack with more than our fair share of offensive technical infringement penalties at the breakdown.

Toeava may struggle on the wing tactically/defensively and will probably be swapped with Dagg or moved to the mid field when Jane comes on in the second half after Kahui is inevitably injured.

I can see this being a high scoring affair, given that the mid field is light on experience together and alignment won't be as good as Nonu/Smith, but I think there is more pace and creativity which is likely to be lethal if the Boks kick a lot of ball to them, which seems like it will be the case.

Kind of agree there GG, I expect we'll cope defensively in the tight stuff. We may look a little loose with new combinations in the backs and it looks like the winner of the backrow battle might decide the outcome here.

Part of me still expects Lambie to move up to 10, or indeed start there.

In any case, AB's by 7 in a loose affair (32-25)

THis is all shadow play,smoke and mirrors I could have named All Blacks RWC squad bar the odd one injuries permitting Jan 1st 2011.
This a squad of players most[ALL BLACKS] of individuals being thrown together to get game time and prove points.Several are just back from injury ,all short of a gallop.
Make no mistake last week a Bok side rusty should have won last weekif they`d taken the right options.They`ve toughened the front and back rows.
Added a dedicated goal kicker at fly half,and a promising scrum half.
Don`t be fooled this bok side can run too,Lambie at 15 gives them more options.
They will be better for game time and they are the most settled side.
If the All Blacks were seriously treating this game as winnable,Ben Franks would have started with Woodcock,Afoa is there for game time and is usuallyjust bench cover.
They `ve targetted the All Blacks back row weakness,Alberts coming in at 8,set pieces if the Hooker can hit his man this AB side has 5 genuine lineout options.The scrum is`nt weakened if they pull Afoa,early if he`s having a mare.Worry is Woodcock is short of a gallop may not go the full eighty.
In the backs no Nonu on the bench suggests,Toeva at some point will move to 13,Cory Jane moving to wing or full back.
Weepu will cover Slade as a 10 and goal kicker,unless Dagg is kicking.
The Back row is basicly 5 possible 6`s covering all 3 positions,Thompson,Vito ,and Messam are all loose forwards but not specialists at any.
Don`t worry about Thomson or Kaino its Messam and Vito are the weak links.
For the Boks a MUST win to restore pride,momentum gained going into the RWC.
For the ALL BLACKS this SHOULD have been the key match in the 3Ns,but the side sent is a HOPE it wins rather than it WILL win.
It`s the old rotation policy all over again,yes you can say its a strong B side
BUT most are bench warmers or impact players sadly I don`t think it will be enough.
Next week for the 3Ns ,Aussies tails up a win then going into a RWC,plus a Super title.
How would that help a ABs RWC campaign if OZ win again you`ll never here the last of it.Hong Kong winby a single point and suddenly there GODS.

Comes down to whoever is more desperate-the ABs trying to force their way into the WC squad or the Boks trying to get momentum and not get whitewashed.

I agree with GG-it will be probably a high-scoring affair, and I reckon the first half will be absolutely manic. If it settles down early NZ will have the advantage I think, as they can use the stability to unleash a really exciting backline. Interesting to see how Toeava goes.

Hoping Dagg has a big game at the back. Mils looks like he's lost a yard of pace and doesn't offer the same counter strike ability that he used to, and while he has insane skills, Toeava makes me nervous under pressure.

I think Dagg will make a name for himself on Saturday ( well, he has already), probably will become first choice.

emack2 wrote:How would that help a ABs RWC campaign if OZ win again you`ll never here the last of it.Hong Kong winby a single point and suddenly there GODS.

Did this really need to be said? All black fans win like Aussies, yet lose like toddlers.

So that's a B team pack with 338 caps. Awesome.

What's the feeling amongst the SA's on here if they get beaten by this 'B' team?

Where does that leave the Boks WC preparations?

I wouldn't have thought it would really bother the boks camp if they lost Saturday. A 'B' team huh? As most have stated, that's as good as many an 'A' team.

A loss for the boks on Saturday should really help to sharpen their minds. It wlil only be the 2nd game for the senior players, and then a couple of weeks rest I would think wlil pull them together before the pool games. Plenty of time to sharpen the boks up.

Unless they get thumped then it may affect morals.

My 2c worth anyway

mckay1402 wrote:Wow I wish Wales or Scotland could put out an A team that good...

I wish we could put a first team out as good as that!! - They are the benchmark and a great site to behold - Go Blacks

AusT wrote "Unless they get thumped then it may affect morals."

That's a new one on me mate, I didn't know the Saffers had any morals on the rugby field - Now morale - that would be different

RubyGuby wrote:AusT wrote "Unless they get thumped then it may affect morals."

That's a new one on me mate, I didn't know the Saffers had any morals on the rugby field - Now morale - that would be different

Ouch, that hurt.

Just to help you out- Morals are related to the principals of right and wrong behaviour.

Agression on a rugby field is not immoral.

Touch a nerve there Bilton? - I've got news for you, it's also not immoral to have a bit of banter on a rugby board, in general I find it good for morale. Now that Bakkies guy!! Moral or Morale, which one would he go for??

Well he keeps his MORALE up by AGRESSION, once again not IMMORAL.

MORALE!!

Sorry guys, thanx biltong, I meant the bok's morale, their feeling of well being.

Ingleeish not my first language you see..

LOL!

Lets hope he's got some of that aggression left in him come the RWC - your boys could do with some

Ha pretty much every Ocker bloke I know, when asked what languages he speaks, replies 'I speak Aussie!'

disneychilly wrote:Ha pretty much every Ocker bloke I know, when asked what languages he speaks, replies 'I speak Aussie!'

Isn't there a "Mate" at the end of every sentence?

and don't forget the rising inflections...

I thought that was just a nazal twang?

biltongbek wrote:

disneychilly wrote:Ha pretty much every Ocker bloke I know, when asked what languages he speaks, replies 'I speak Aussie!'

Isn't there a "Mate" at the end of every sentence?

When I lived there it was the stupid insistence of using the word "but" to end every sentence...

disneychilly wrote:Ha pretty much every Ocker bloke I know, when asked what languages he speaks, replies 'I speak Aussie!'

Na mate, he's speak strine!!!

So most Aussie conversations go like this.

" So Mate, did youuuu take Sheeeliaaae to the daence? Mate."


" Yes, I took Sheeeeliiaaae to the daence, Mate, But"

Pretty much Biltong!

Juan Smith out of World Cup
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14571942.stm

That's a big loss but you have strength in the back row

Rocky captain no more !!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14570085.stm

boomeranga wrote:

emack2 wrote:How would that help a ABs RWC campaign if OZ win again you`ll never here the last of it.Hong Kong winby a single point and suddenly there GODS.

Did this really need to be said? All black fans win like Aussies, yet lose like toddlers.

Sorry, it took me a while to get to reply I'm still trying to remember how Aussies are when they win something.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Israel Dagg has the best name in world rugby.

Until Fuifui Moimoi switches from RL at least

Though Hugo Horn and Llewellen Winkler in the Namibia team have claims.

Nah, have you seen the lads in the Namibian world cup squad - now them is proper names

Still very strong team. They won't be easily beaten.

Lot of nice banter,and a few barbs about a typo not a lot suggesting the
result.Yes boomeranga the comment about OZ was required,a narrow win by a point after 11 straight losses 3 in the same season.
The OZ Media went way over the top about Hong Kong win.Tomorrow the
All Blacks have 4 starting forwards,and couple of starting Boks in the side
the Boks most of there established first team.
There should only be one winner and it isn`t the All Blacks.the All Black RWC Squad. will be announced 10 days.
Props=Owen Franks,Ben Franks,Woodcock,Afoa
Locks=Thorn,Ali Williams,Whitelock,Donnelly
Hookers=Mealamu,Hore,Flynn
Flankers= Kaino,McCaw,Thomson
Eights = Read.Messam
Scrum halfs= Weepu,Ellis,Cowan
Mid field= Conrad Smith,Nonu,Sonny Boy Williams,Kahui
Fly halves= Carter,Slade
Wings = Gear,Sivivatu,Cory Jane
Full backs=Muliana,Toeva
IF that isn`t the squad i`ll be very surprised Boric if fit for Donnelly
Crockett deserves a place over Afoa, Dagg over Toeva,but it won`t happen
they`ll go for experience.

So whats your pick alan?
Not a lot mentioned about SBW.
For me time is right for him to set the rugby world talking again.
Hes pumped. Starved of match play and im picking a big day for hi and fourie and jdv may have their hands full.
Having seen the teams, the venue- I think there will be some local non white support- im going for a 12 point win to the abs.
Sbw, dagg and toeava to figure.

Bok home win,probably by about 7 as I said,it`s a group of individuals not
a team.To many returning wounded at the sametime better to have started the strongest and fed in from the bench.
There are only 4 possible bench places,which would have been Boric at 4th lock.,full back Dagg would have been favourite pre -injury.
Toeva has always been a favourite of Teds,few starts not been convincing under pressure,another utily[futility?]player.
Fourth Prop,Afoa is away post RWC,so much for vaunted player loyalty bit,Crocketts done no wrong.The Crusaders Front row is the best in SH especially the Ali shuffle bit,with there 3 props.
The only other possibility was a specialist 7 but too late for that now.
Nonu should have least had a bench spot.could have started Vito and used Hoerta to cover 6 and lock,and added a second prop on bench.
Messam they know what he can and can`t do he`s like Pierre spies a gifted player but an 8 he is not.
This is a calculated risk and is in bad taste,IF you hide playersfrom injury this week.Then play them next week what does that imply they can only be imjured against the Boks?

NZ by 10 - dangerous team with points to prove and all the pressure on the Boks

TheGreyGhost wrote:

boomeranga wrote:

emack2 wrote:How would that help a ABs RWC campaign if OZ win again you`ll never here the last of it.Hong Kong winby a single point and suddenly there GODS.

Did this really need to be said? All black fans win like Aussies, yet lose like toddlers.

Sorry, it took me a while to get to reply I'm still trying to remember how Aussies are when they win something.

Touché

I saw you also won some sort of basketball tournament the other week. Well done on learning a second trick!

emack2 wrote:THis is all shadow play,smoke and mirrors I could have named All Blacks RWC squad bar the odd one injuries permitting Jan 1st 2011.
This a squad of players most[ALL BLACKS] of individuals being thrown together to get game time and prove points.Several are just back from injury ,all short of a gallop.
Make no mistake last week a Bok side rusty should have won last weekif they`d taken the right options.They`ve toughened the front and back rows.
Added a dedicated goal kicker at fly half,and a promising scrum half.
Don`t be fooled this bok side can run too,Lambie at 15 gives them more options.
They will be better for game time and they are the most settled side.
If the All Blacks were seriously treating this game as winnable,Ben Franks would have started with Woodcock,Afoa is there for game time and is usuallyjust bench cover.
They `ve targetted the All Blacks back row weakness,Alberts coming in at 8,set pieces if the Hooker can hit his man this AB side has 5 genuine lineout options.The scrum is`nt weakened if they pull Afoa,early if he`s having a mare.Worry is Woodcock is short of a gallop may not go the full eighty.
In the backs no Nonu on the bench suggests,Toeva at some point will move to 13,Cory Jane moving to wing or full back.
Weepu will cover Slade as a 10 and goal kicker,unless Dagg is kicking.
The Back row is basicly 5 possible 6`s covering all 3 positions,Thompson,Vito ,and Messam are all loose forwards but not specialists at any.
Don`t worry about Thomson or Kaino its Messam and Vito are the weak links.
For the Boks a MUST win to restore pride,momentum gained going into the RWC.
For the ALL BLACKS this SHOULD have been the key match in the 3Ns,but the side sent is a HOPE it wins rather than it WILL win.
It`s the old rotation policy all over again,yes you can say its a strong B side
BUT most are bench warmers or impact players sadly I don`t think it will be enough.
Next week for the 3Ns ,Aussies tails up a win then going into a RWC,plus a Super title.
How would that help a ABs RWC campaign if OZ win again you`ll never here the last of it.Hong Kong winby a single point and suddenly there GODS.

Very good Alan...
Some very good analysis going on there. Given me more to think about going into this game.

The only thing I can add here is as I've said I think a lot will centre around SBW who i reckon GH has told to go for his shots.
The returning players have at least had at least one or two full runs at ITM so I dont think its similar to the Boks situation but it is a worry. Combinations all over the park another.

You know one of the differences here is that we care about the result. B team or not. You see some of the English, Welsh, Irish fans talking about friendlies. Arghhhhhhh!!!
I do care that we will SMASH our Bokke mates before the world cup

Yea we still see it as an ab loss if we lose. Thats our nature. This team is the best available for THIS test and first choice or not theres a standard to live up to.
Both oz and SA have proved that they have no depth with key players out with SA still having to prove they can win at full strength. At home.
This SA team looks good with the changes and a game under their belt will be tougher.