Ian Keatley - Dark Horse for Ireland 12 shirt post RWC

I think its fair to say that most Irish rugby fans assume that Fergus McFadden and Luke Marshall will be winning the 12 shirt after the World Cup. Could Munster's Ian Keatley be a dark horse to steal his way in. Many international flyhalves start off their rugby at 12 such as Dan Carter, Jonny Wilkinson or Toby Flood have started their careers at 12, while some like Contepomi, Hook or Giteau have swapped between the two positions for most of their careers. This would be a good way to get gametime to a promising young flyhalf after O'Gara leaves.

Secondly Keatley will probably get a lot of gametime for Munster wearing the 12 shirt. They are desperate to recruit but there doesn't seem to be options. He's played 12 for Connacht and Ireland, Munster seemed to be trialling it last year with Warwick playing at 12. I would say he'll get more time at 12 than McFadden or Marshall will next year.

Could we see a 10-12 axis of Sexton - Keatley in a year or two?

What will munster do about there out half problem then

Not on last nights performance he wont - my contacts tell me he was poor

Was he? Didn't see the game at all Geoff. Actually Geoff how long do you think Paddy Wallace will hold the 12 shirt in Ulster.

Being told by contacts - not there myself.
Keatley's tackling was 2nd to Paddy's by what I am hearing.

I expect Paddy to be first choice this coming year but after that I think Marshall will be the man.
Likewise I can see Court being usurped by McAllister over the same time period

I'd think McAllister will earn his place sooner. Court is a player who I don't rate - his versatility aside. I think McAllister could be first choice by end of year.

I think Paddy Wallace will hold on for at least a year. Possibly longer; it all depends on Marshalls development. If Marshall lives up to his promise he will be an outstanding player. I'm sure Wallace will continue to get lots of gametime and may even move inside to 10 a la Mike Catt as he gets older.

It's good that Marshall has a ready made mentor in Wallace.

Hope he learns from Paddy that you need to play well wearing green as well as white

Indeed. I don't think there's much fear of that though. He's as skilled as Wallace, but more athletic and physical. Very exciting.

geoff998rugby wrote:Being told by contacts - not there myself.
Keatley's tackling was 2nd to Paddy's by what I am hearing.

I expect Paddy to be first choice this coming year but after that I think Marshall will be the man.
Likewise I can see Court being usurped by McAllister over the same time period

Your contacts are talking a load of shi*e, he was good last night, not as good as wallace but good all the same.

Well the rest of my contacts opinions seems to have been verified by others so maybe this is a matter of intreptation. The specific point he made was some poor tackling. As you yourself admit Paddy had the better game.

geoff998rugby wrote:Well the rest of my contacts opinions seems to have been verified by others so maybe this is a matter of intreptation. The specific point he made was some poor tackling. As you yourself admit Paddy had the better game.

Yes and paddy being better means that keatley had a poor game? Could it not be that they both played well but paddy played better? Keatley had one poor tackle that I can remember but other than that he was good.

Les Kiss praised the centre partnership anyway. All I've heard has indicated Keatley had a decent enough game, but I wasn't there so I'll defer to those who were.

Seems, purely from an Ulster point of view here, Darren Cave played well which is great news. I do believe Darren will fight off the challenge of Nevin Spence to reclaim his status as first choice Ulster 13.

Notch wrote:Les Kiss praised the centre partnership anyway. All I've heard has indicated Keatley had a decent enough game, but I wasn't there so I'll defer to those who were.

Seems, purely from an Ulster point of view here, Darren Cave played well which is great news. I do believe Darren will fight off the challenge of Nevin Spence to reclaim his status as first choice Ulster 13.

Spence was never realistically going to challenge cave this season. Cave is too important to be left out just yet, he organises the whole defence and despite his lack off pace, he makes up for it by intelligence, he is never burned on the outside. Spence will probably play on the wing when ulster are at full strength. I think he will take the 13 jersey but just not yet.

edit; On the centre partnership, I was surprised at how well they gelled but I think they were the 10-13 for the 2007 u20 grand slam?

valjester wrote:edit; On the centre partnership, I was surprised at how well they gelled but I think they were the 10-13 for the 2007 u20 grand slam?

Aidan Wynne was at first centre.

MBTGOG wrote:

valjester wrote:edit; On the centre partnership, I was surprised at how well they gelled but I think they were the 10-13 for the 2007 u20 grand slam?

Aidan Wynne was at first centre.

Yeah I know that, I said they were the 10-13, meaning that all though they were a direct partnership they would know each others games fairly well so they weren't being chucked in together for the first time having never played together.

Not sure Spence will be on the wing for Ulster when all are fit - up against Trimble, Gilroy and Danielli.

There again I think he and Cave will be close for 13.

The great think is we have genuine competition from 11 to 15.

geoff998rugby wrote:Not sure Spence will be on the wing for Ulster when all are fit - up against Trimble, Gilroy and Danielli.

There again I think he and Cave will be close for 13.

The great think is we have genuine competition from 11 to 15.

Where does Payne fit in? Surely

09 Pienaar
10 Humphreys
11 Danielli
12 Wallace
13 Payne
14 Trimble
15 Darcy

Payne at full back Stag.

geoff998rugby wrote:Not sure Spence will be on the wing for Ulster when all are fit - up against Trimble, Gilroy and Danielli.

There again I think he and Cave will be close for 13.

The great think is we have genuine competition from 11 to 15.

Danielli has lost a lot of pace, and weren't their rumours of him retiring after the world cup?
I think spence has to play but I think cave's defence and general organisation of the bakline should see him at 13.

Didn't know he could play there Munsty. And I'm guessing Spence/Cave at 13 then.

It's his natural position Stag but he's damn good in the centres. If Ulster want to get the best out of him, they should probably not play him as an orthodox full back.

Thats the way I see it Stag.

Straight head to head for 13.

There were rumours of Danielli retiring. I think they are true but in the summer of 2012 not after the WC. Ulster will not offer him a contract for 2012-13 (he will be the NIQ player droped when we move from 5 to 4 in 2012-13).

He is settled her, married a local lass and plans to live here after retiring.

MBTGOG wrote:It's his natural position Stag but he's damn good in the centres. If Ulster want to get the best out of him, they should probably not play him as an orthodox full back.

To be fair I can see a lot of mixing and matching in attacking positions - others will drop to 15 for a number of moves.

MBTGOG wrote:It's his natural position Stag but he's damn good in the centres. If Ulster want to get the best out of him, they should probably not play him as an orthodox full back.

His best form has been as a 13, but darcy isn't that good and cave/spence are good cover for 13. The only problem is that he is prone to make stupid decision when under pressure as has been shown when playing in super semi finals for the crusaders and again this year for blues.

Well if it's any consolotation, he won't be playing in any European semi finals with Ulster

MBTGOG wrote:Well if it's any consolotation, he won't be playing in any European semi finals with Ulster

If they ever figure out how to win in france, you never know they might get there.

We don't have to win in France

10 points against Aironi, 5 against both Clermont and Leicester. Top the group with 20 points and 4 wins.

Win against Bath in the QF, we always beat them you know , and there you have it sorted

I genuinely am very interested to see how Payne is worked into the team. He has played very well for the Blues this year but his best rugby has been for Northland where he is part of the trinity that also includes Munro and Ranger. They all switch around positions, from wing to centre to full back and it's fantastic watching how they move seamlessly into different positions.

I see the Ulster kids are winning 13-3 at the minute. I must be the only Ulster fan that actually thinks D'arcy could become a viable option for us. He isnt a big guy but he isnt a bad tackler and he has shown the ability to attack and take a high ball.

He still needs to work massively on other areas of his game but i remember the improvement in Nagusa between his first and second season and if D'arcy can focus on what he needs to do i think he will be a valuable player. The amount of tries that he was involved in last season was massive

Standulstermen wrote:I see the Ulster kids are winning 13-3 at the minute. I must be the only Ulster fan that actually thinks D'arcy could become a viable option for us. He isnt a big guy but he isnt a bad tackler and he has shown the ability to attack and take a high ball.

He still needs to work massively on other areas of his game but i remember the improvement in Nagusa between his first and second season and if D'arcy can focus on what he needs to do i think he will be a valuable player. The amount of tries that he was involved in last season was massive

He needs to work a lot on the positional side of his game and become smarter in the decisions he is makes.

Standulstermen wrote:I see the Ulster kids are winning 13-3 at the minute. I must be the only Ulster fan that actually thinks D'arcy could become a viable option for us. He isnt a big guy but he isnt a bad tackler and he has shown the ability to attack and take a high ball.

He still needs to work massively on other areas of his game but i remember the improvement in Nagusa between his first and second season and if D'arcy can focus on what he needs to do i think he will be a valuable player. The amount of tries that he was involved in last season was massive

Nah not the only one. He is a really exciting prospect going forward, has all the skills but isn't used to the discipline of NH pro-rugby - just yet.


On Keatley, he could be very good for Munster. I really hope they don't play him at 15, but switch him between 12 and 10. Paddy Wallace wasted 2/3 years being "fitted in" at 15 when he was really a 10/12 (Marshall is also a 10/12). Staunton also lost his way being made to play 15 when he was really a 10/12.

Munster don't need a 15 we need a 10/12 so Keatley will see gametime there.

It will be good for him outside ROG Thomond. i hope he learns from playing outside him. He, Sexton and Jackson will be very important going forward