Dodging NZ

France have a history of beating NZ at the world cup. Should they do that in the group stages next month what will happen in the game between Scotland and England. Assuming (a big one at that) both Scotland and England walk into that game with a 100% record will we see a match where both teams are playing to lose? Anyone recall a similar situation in past world cups?

If teams think about that they shouldn't be on the plane. You should be confident of beating everyone, especially those teams you mention, one having lost by 3 in a SF and the other having won in the past.

Very true disney but if you are an england or Scottish coach, and you haven't won a game against All Blacks in ...well, forever, you might try to lose the match.

Reality is, England will much rather play france than New Zealand who they haven't come cloe to since about 2003?

I think any team would rather play france who can be excellent on the day but can also be beaten by weaker teams. Not many teams have beaten a full strength NZ team in the last few years especially not England or Scotland whereas France have, as always shown they can beat the likes of NZ then lose to Italy. Whereas no coach would worry about being knocked out by NZ in the quarters it looks very temping to aim to beat France.

I remember Wales putting out a second string side against NZ previously, we were always going to be second in the group so players were rested. Turned out to be a great game but what effect did that have on the first team players knowing the management didn't think we could beat NZ

I think they should prepare to play NZ eventually. To practice thinking you're going to come up against the best, and in this tournament NZ happens to be the best side going in, I think is the right way to practice and if you do that, then all of a sudden find you'll play someone who in your opinion is weaker, would be a massive boost.

France will ruin someone's party I feel then blow cold the next big game and get walloped.

I'm sure NZ would rather avoid France in the knockout stages given that they have not beaten them at the WC since the 87 final. My guess is we will have a repeat of the 87 final with NZ drawing first blood in the pool stages and France pushing them to the wire in the final.

I was chatting to some french fans after the game on Sat. We were discussing the slim probability of beating NZ twice in NZ. (the likelihood being that even if France beat NZ in their group and got to the final they would likely face NZ again).
There was serious talk of their B team facing NZ in the group then trying to get to a one-off final situation against them, winner take-all.
What do you think are the odds of France not being at full strength in their group?

The way frances selection have gone i dont think anyone knows what a full strength team looks like, i think Lievremont tries to pick a team to beat the opposition in front of them and is either seen as a genius or an idiot because of this approach. In the groups both teams know that they are only playing for position and both can be confident that whatever happens thay have the talent to go to the final with either half of the draw posing an equal threat, possibly South Africa posing the biggest threat. There will be experiementing, form, resting and injuries (niggling or severe) to take into account so it could be a drastically differnet line up should they play each other twice.

Doesn't mean anything Leinsterbaby but we humped them in the playoff for 3rd in 2003 40-12.

If France get up in the pool game then I reckon NZ will annihilate everyone.

Unless they have both beaten Argentina the question will not arise as neither will be safe.

Just posted on another thread that the chances of France winning two against NZ are very low, and not because the games are in NZ - history shows us that the French never turn up in pool games or finals and areonly deadly a Q4 and semi time therefore meaning that there is no chance of one let alone two wins by the froggies.

To be the best at some time you have to play the best. No team will throw a game to avoid any team. That's just the stuff of idle speculators like us....

Well, not sure that the saffers beat the best to be the best at the last RWC - Q4 v Scotland, semi v Argentina (both of whom NZ has never lost to) and a beaten up England in the final - to be honest I'm sure nearly every other team would like that type of draw. Queue outrage from the SA fans.

scoi wrote:France have a history of beating NZ at the world cup. Should they do that in the group stages next month what will happen in the game between Scotland and England. Assuming (a big one at that) both Scotland and England walk into that game with a 100% record will we see a match where both teams are playing to lose? Anyone recall a similar situation in past world cups?

well we know scotland are very capable of playing to lose since they did it against nz last world cup thus giving nz its easiest 4 game winning streak in its history.
French history against nz is i believe 2-3 down in cups. Hardly a habit.
Now aus against nz at 2-0 is a habit.
NZ against ALL home unions at i think 20 odd matches since 87 is a habit.
French have won 2 memorable matches. Hopefullt we get to turn that around.
For that reason i think theyll do a scotland and hide.
The ab revenge factor might just be a little too much as i wouldnt want to be on the french team that day.

I agree Taylorman - I can't see the French putting up their first XV against us in the pool game (even if they know what that is) and frankly even if they do I rate them no chance against an AB team on a mission, who have just played a hard tri-nations and a physical first up game against Tonga and a training ground run against the

[to finish] Japanese. No chance in my mind of an upset by the French in pool play.

French save themselves for big knockouts against nz so be surprised if they get near them.
Nothing against the french as as far as we are concerned far and away the best NH team. And consistently so through the years and also...
The only team since 1986 to win at eden park!

I reckon France have one big game per cup and we should let them have it against us in the pool game. Of course they won't want it so they will field a 2nd string team.
So we will have to throw the game. So they will have to try harder to lose. So we will have to try harder to lose.
Whoever loses can then beat the other one in the final.
Brilliant