Best Recruitment

So what club has bought and recruited best this year. Contenders?

Bayonne are probably my pick - They have brought in Joe Rokocoko, Neemia Tialata, Cedric Heymans, Mark Chrisholm, Mike Phillips and Sione Lauaki. Amazing signings that would be the envy of any team.

Maybe I've not done my homework but who can top that? Maybe Toulon with the likes of Bakkies and Giteau?

The Blues with the big signings of... Oh wait.

In the AP I would say top three for recruitment are

1.Bath
2.Saracens
3.Saints

over the last two years ulster have done some great business
John afoa and jared payne this year

Pretty pleased with recruitment at Tigers, at the start of the summer we needed;

an alternate enforcer for Deacon - Kitchener signed
a prop who can play both sides and replace Jules long term - we got Brookes
a fetcher, because we have repeatedly paid the price for not having one - Salvi signed
someone other than Grindal for when Youngs is with England - we get Micky Young

Added to that we added loads of pace in the form of Tait and de Carpienter.

Think Sarries have signed very well (again), Bath have covered the first team but their squad still looks a tad undernourished the signing of Fearns was a good one though. Saints have added quite a few and currently not many of them are going to make much impact on the first team, Gloucester look like they could have done with a couple more and Newcastle are still short in certain areas. Best not to mention LI signing Hape as a reaplcement for Mapasua.

Wasps can be worried about their recruitment. Thompson may help but they'll be banking a lot on academy boys coming good.
Care's injury may have wrecked their season too as Simpson will be away for the WC and then who knows about the 6N's after if he impresses?

I think Wasps have made some very good signings in Thompson, Robinson and Wentzel. They should all add things to the first team with Southwell a fine replacement for MVG. However, yet another injury to Rees looks to really hinder them.

while there are NIQ/NWQ/NSQ/NItQ limits on all the teams in the Celtic league, no Celtic league team can recuit to many players in a season, in comparison to France, and England will be similar with their salary cap.

it's prop best to compare top 3 in each league with each other, rather than across Leagues

therefore I make it
England
1.Bath
2.Saracens
3.Saints

France
1)Bayonne
2)Toulon
3)Stade Français

Celtic League
1) Ulster
2)Connacht (maybe not the best players, but for there budget and size they have recuited very well)
3)Leinster

Clermont have signed Sivivatu, Hines and Keyser, as well as Regan King and Lee Byrne. Considering the quality in their squad already they're some great signings. David Skrela though, not so sure about that.

I know I'm biased, but I thought Bath had done well in recruiting in areas where fans have been saying for 2 years we were light:
Front row - Charlie Beech (good young prop), Perenise, plus youngsters coming through - Catt, Palma-Newport etc
Second row - Attwood, Caldwell. Both gnarly players.
Back row - Fearns, Louw.
10 - Stephen Donald
Centres - Dan Hipkiss, plus likes of Williams really pushing hard for starting places.
Back 3 - Assuming that's where our latest League recruit will be slotting in eventually!

Coleman wrote:The Blues with the big signings of... Oh wait.

it's prop best to compare top 3 in each league with each other, rather than across Leagues

On that basis;

England
1.Sarries (master stroke in signing Hodgson, Vunipola another good one)
2.Tigers (young talented squad depth)
3.Bath (got the second row options they need and some more substance to the centres)

France
1)Clermont (freakish amount of quality squad depth)
2)Toulon (more big names all with big talent)
3)Bayonne (signed good players but all near 30 and haven't addressed all of their squad needs)

Celtic League
1)Ulster
2)Ospreys (Stowers is an excellent replacement for Collins)
3)If Munster bring in a quality inside centre then I'd go for them if not Connacht

bathmad wrote: Second row - Attwood, Caldwell. Both gnarly players.

Is gnarly an English adjective meaning stupid

Because Caldwell is a penalty machine because of dumb plays at the breakdown.

I feel Leicester have conducted the best recruitment. Tait is a canny signing and I think they will get the best out of him. Equally, Young, Kitchener and Brookes are all good players now, but also one's who have clear potential to improve.

Saints have added much needed strength in depth, but have failed to address fly half, which I believe will once again see them fall short of silverware this year.

Sarries didn't need much strengthening, but they have recruited very wisely with a mixture of youth and (huge) experience.

It may be because they are our rivals, but I do not rate Bath's recruitment at all. They have signed a lot of players, but I question the quality. As geoff says Caldwell is a liability and Attwood who I rate highly did suffer from 2nd season syndrome last year. I do genuinely hope he recaptures his form of 2 years ago. But they do provide the much needed grunt required, however with Hooper as captain only 1 will play at a time. Louw and Fearns are decent signings, but do they differ enough from Skirving and Taylor to provide different options? Donald is a solid, but uninspring FH and certainly not the signing to make the world sit up and notice! (Sorry I don't mean this to be a Bath rant... too much )

Glaws have recruited players with raw potential and promoted youth, which in the long run may work, but may be too much of a hill to climb this year. Dario Chistolini and Matias Cortese are 2 interesting signings, if they can raise their game to this level they could be very, very good.

Wasps have signed some decent players whose experience will help their raft of youngsters. It may be sink or swim with them, but give it a year or two and they will hugely benefit from promoting youth.

If one man can keep Caldwell in check, it's Geech. Otherwise Caldwell's basics are very good.

Who made the best signings could be different for each team.

Tke Toulon some big name signings that we envy, has to be said good signings
but look at Connacht got player in positions they need and good players given their budget, but nowhere near Toulons signings.

The bar should be who made the signings that will move them up a level, are the Best. To carry the example if Connacht finish higher in the league this year than last, and Toulon finish in the same place as last year, Connacht must have made the better signings than Toulon did, even though Toulon got the better players.

bathmad wrote:If one man can keep Caldwell in check, it's Geech. Otherwise Caldwell's basics are very good.

Very true and somebody at Bath got Grewcock to calm down a bit!

Kingshu wrote:Who made the best signings could be different for each team.

Tke Toulon some big name signings that we envy, has to be said good signings
but look at Connacht got player in positions they need and good players given their budget, but nowhere near Toulons signings.

The bar should be who made the signings that will move them up a level, are the Best. To carry the example if Connacht finish higher in the league this year than last, and Toulon finish in the same place as last year, Connacht must have made the better signings than Toulon did, even though Toulon got the better players.

Excellent point.

Caldwell has being going backwards for the last 4 years and I do not beleive he has the grey matter to address the issue.

Ulster delighted they have replaced him with Stevenson.

Kingshu wrote:Who made the best signings could be different for each team.

Tke Toulon some big name signings that we envy, has to be said good signings
but look at Connacht got player in positions they need and good players given their budget, but nowhere near Toulons signings.

The bar should be who made the signings that will move them up a level, are the Best. To carry the example if Connacht finish higher in the league this year than last, and Toulon finish in the same place as last year, Connacht must have made the better signings than Toulon did, even though Toulon got the better players.

True, but Connacht were recruiting based on major holes, not as additions to their squad. If they had recruited well this season, but not lost 4 very important starters into the bargain, then they would be a lot more comfortable.

Still, George Naoupu is probably my favourite Irish-based, non-Leinster player, so happy for them they got him back this season. If he plays like he did two years ago we're all in for a treat.

Very true and somebody at Bath got Grewcock to calm down a bit!.

Not sure about that. He was still involved in more than his fair share of scrapes and scuffles. The punch to Ben Youngs less than five minutes into the game at the Rec last season being a prime example (fired up Youngsy though).

Well the Ospreys got a tool and 2 samoans.

In terms of who has recruited well enoug to improve their prospects:

Bath: Strengthened lots of key areas. I continue to believe Donald will be one of the outstanding FHs in English rugby.
Saints: Their big problem was lack of squad depth, and they've definitely improved this.
Tigers: Some very good signings. Brookes will replace Cole in the squad at the end of the season, and Tait in the back three will add something they were definitely missing.

I think Saracens have recruited ok, but the only signing who could really move them on is Hodgson, and this requires quite a change in emphasis by the coaches to be successful.

Wasps have recruited well, but have a backrow crisis caused by injuries already.

AlynDavies wrote:Well the Ospreys got a tool and 2 samoans.

na we got rid of phillips, just bighead next and bring in matthew morgan and we are invincible...

anyway back on track, i think the problem is espicially from welsh regions is that the WRU are trying to force the regions to get players from their acadamies rather than buy (ok the O's have ignored it most of the time but now...) i mean look at the talent comming through for most of the regions.

Dragons- Tovey, steffan jones, gavin thomas, Dan lydiate, Toby F
Scarlets- Scott williams, lloyd williams, Priestland, Morgan, Stoddart etc
Ospreys- Morgan (soon), tipuric, pryide, kristin phillips, webb, Beck
Blues- Warbuton, fish (ok i dont know any others not a blues suppporter)

but you get my point

DaveM I don't understand how you see our signings as worse than the others.

The new Saracens signings just add to the already strong squad we have.

Vunipola is one of the brightest young prospects in the frontrow as he recently played for England U20s.

Charlie Hodgson is one of the best fly halves in the AP - he probably won't be called up by England again so will be available all the time.

John Smit might not be good enough for international rugby or the super XV anymore but he is still strong cover at hooker and should have an impact in the HC.

Joe Maddock seemed to know where the tryline was at Bath.

Marcus Watson and Duncan Taylor are young prospects.

Two bright youngsters Harry Spencer and Jean Baptiste Bruzullier at scrum half look good too.

Saracens don't need improvements as much as the likes of Bath and Saints (strength in depth).

Brookes will replace Cole in the squad at the end of the season,

Gloucester and Sarries are sniffing round but the rumours at Welford Rd are that Cole will sign a new contract when the wage cap is extended next year. The hopes are that Ayerza will do the same, because of the 'star player' being exempt from the wage cap ruling Tigers will be able to exclude Castro from the wage cap and therefore afford to renew the contracts of the big name players.

Sam do you want to use your "star player" spot on Cole?

Why did he not sign a contract extension before?

Is Brookes really that good?

Castro will become the star player and with the £300k extra wage salary we will hopefully tie down the likes of Ayerza and Cole to long term deals. Tigers can't really afford to go and land a Hernandez or a Carter on £500k because it would impact on the squad depth and because we are tied by financial constraints. We don't have a wealthy backer and out profits are only a few hundred thousand a year.

Cole won't sign a new deal at the moment as he wants a rise in wages to put him on par with the other props, currently his salary is not reflective of his place in the team as he signed it about three years ago. Brookes looks to have plenty of potential, solid in the scrum and decent around the park. Tigers will tighten up his scrummaging and his fitness levels and I think in a year or two he'll really start firing, though he is playing tighthead now he may end up at loosehead as Bucknall and Stankovtich aren't getting any younger and aren't the most mobile whilst Castro and Cole could go on for years with England under 20 Ryan Bower not dual registered this year.

Sam, there has been a lot of press speculation about Glaws and Cole, but I think it is mostly founded on gossip rather than truth. Whilst we are spending up to the cap again this year, it is also well known we are not rolling in cash at present either. Cole would not come cheap, but also we're focusing on developing Harden and Chistolini at TH, so his signing does not seem to match our current plans.

I'd love to see him come to Glaws, but I can't see it happening.

I agree with you about Brookes, he's a huge talent and is going to be in a good environment to learn.

I think the whole Cole moving on thing is a rumour to be honest, his contract is running down and so there's lots of 'what ifs'. If he has any sense he'll stay at Tigers where the rotation system keeps him fresh and it is his club (he was born across the road from the stadium) where he has been carefully developed. He will be offered good money so I hope he does stay. I can't see what he'd gain by moving other than a slightly increased wage. Tigers facilities are excellent, there's a massive fan base, the club look after their players (are famous for it) and he's getting plenty of international representation.

It really depends how we are rating signings....none of the Leicester signings come with big reputations if you catch my drift except Tait. Now most of them may turn out to become inspired signing but nothing in there that will challenge the starting spots of the first teamers.

Bath on the other hand have signed Attwood,Caldwell, Donald, Eastmond, Hipkiss, Perenise & Louw. Now most of those will probably become first string for Bath with possibly the exception of Eastmond and Perenise.

So it boils down to if we are grading the signings by proven reputations or not.....

For me though its a tie between Wasps & Bath in the Aviva.

In the Rabbo Pro 12 its Leinster all the way for best signings.

Not many will effect the first 15 when everyone is available (apart from maybe Tait) but Tigers didn't put put their 15 first choice players altogether for a single game last season. These talented squad players will mean the difference between us being able to fight on one front or two fronts. If we are up against by the time the internationals get back then we won't have the luxuary of rotating key players ahead of HEC games in order for them to be fresh. If we do well during the RWC period on the back of some of these new signings then we can keep the squad rotation going and make sure everyone is fresh for a big push at the end of the season.

Welshmushroom the likes of Leicester,Saracens and Saints already have good XVs so why try and fix something not broken?

The problem with Wasps is that they haven't signed quality and experienced backrow cover.Most of their signings are completely unknown like Jeremy Castex and Jonathan Poff. Others are hardly that inspirational.

Is for example Thompson better than Smit? Robinson better than Hodgson?

Is for example Thompson better than Smit? Robinson better than Hodgson?.

It's more important to think will they bring more to the squad than the players they are replacing.

Does Robinson offer more than Walder?
Does Thompson offer more than whatever his name is that has gone to Sale?
Does Southwell offer more than MVG?

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Is for example Thompson better than Smit? Robinson better than Hodgson?.

It's more important to think will they bring more to the squad than the players they are replacing.

Does Robinson offer more than Walder?
Does Thompson offer more than whatever his name is that has gone to Sale?
Does Southwell offer more than MVG?

And they have signed Haskell back to them in the end.

And I assume Cipriani will return to them in a similar fashion once his second season is done.

Sam what about in the centres for Wasps? Any replacement for Jacobs? Reliance on a off form Flutey?

I just can't really see a first choice Wasps side looking that threatening.

Going to look especially bare because of injuries in the backrow.

Thompson's usefulness is reduced by him being involved in the world cup.

And they have signed Haskell back to them in the end.

Not until next season though. He's got a season in Japan to play first.

The first team looks alright when everyones fit and available;

Payne, Thompson, Castex
Filipo, Wentzel
Rees, DWS, Poff
Simpson, Robinson
Flutey, Waldouck
Varndell, Haughton
Southwell

Consider that Thompson and Simpson are at the RWC and that Rees, DWS, Worsley and Southwell are all set to miss the start of the season. Suddenly they are facing a strong Sarries side with

Payne, Webber, Castex
Filipo, Wentzel
Everard/new Argie, Hart, Poff
Berry, Robinson
Flutey, Waldouck
Varndell, Haughton
Wade or the other youngster

Suddenly they look quick but very likely to take a kicking up front. Wentzel is a great signing for them but the props don't inspire and after Flutey and Waldouck the back up centres are not very good or are academy players.

I hope Saracens crush that Wasps pack. A real opportunity to. Nieto will hopefully pummel Payne in the scrum.

Melck will put a lot of pressure on the Wasps halfbacks.

Varndell,Wade and Haughton are hardly known for their tackling abilities.

The likes of Brits,Short,Joubert,Barritt, Powell,Goode,Melck and Saull will relish running at them. Especially if Hodgson is the puppet master pulling all the strings.

In the ML ulster look to have bought in two class players. I'm happy with the ospreys recruitment and fotauli (sp) looks the real deal at 9.

Sarries and Bath look to have done v well in the AP and a word for exeter who have bought wisely

I'm really sorry - I have held back as long as I can but I just can't wait any more although Iam surprised no Welsh poster has been me to it.
But ..... I'll reserve judgement on who has done the best recruiting until I see who have England recruited for this season's 6N's.

PS Written in jest all English brethren out there. I really don't mind who you have playing for you although even thinking of picking Waldron left me scratching my head.

Trevor Brennan Rugby Tour wrote:So what club has bought and recruited best this year. Contenders?

Bayonne are probably my pick - They have brought in Joe Rokocoko, Neemia Tialata, Cedric Heymans, Mark Chrisholm, Mike Phillips and Sione Lauaki. Amazing signings that would be the envy of any team.

Maybe I've not done my homework but who can top that? Maybe Toulon with the likes of Bakkies and Giteau?

Well Bayonne has just beaten Toulouse, so good shout. Though both teams probably played without a lot of there international players.

beshocked wrote:DaveM I don't understand how you see our signings as worse than the others.

Well I said I was talking about who had recruited well enough to improve them. I don't think Sarries have, which isn't to say they recruited badly but I don't expect them to be much better than last season. Vunipola is potentially good signing for the future, but will do little this season, Hodgson may be a huge success or could mess up Sarries style of play, but the big risk is Smit who isn't a reserve and who will definitely take starts away from the superior Brits.

Watson will barely play, and I don't yet know who Taylor is.

Sarries are strong and will remain so, but have they moved on a level as I think Bath have? No, in my opinion.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Brookes will replace Cole in the squad at the end of the season,

Gloucester and Sarries are sniffing round but the rumours at Welford Rd are that Cole will sign a new contract when the wage cap is extended next year. The hopes are that Ayerza will do the same, because of the 'star player' being exempt from the wage cap ruling Tigers will be able to exclude Castro from the wage cap and therefore afford to renew the contracts of the big name players.

It's not about money, it's about Cole wanting to be the number 1 TH at a big club. You had to choose between him and Castro and you chose the latter. Fair enough, but there are consequences. I reckon he's on his way to Sarries.

As a Newcastle fan I know we’ve lost some very good players this season (Brookes, Young, Gray) but on the whole I don’t think we are entirely in disaster territory yet (just one foot in there).

Jamie Helleur I predict will be a good signing; reports from the preseason games seem promising. If he can help get the backline moving a bit, we’ll at least go down fighting. Ryan Shortland may add a little bite to the backline too.


Saying that we’ve also brought some really promising young players into the squad. I’ll look forward to seeing how Jordi Pasqualin (Scrum Half), Will Chudley (Scrum half), Dan Fraizer (Prop), Joe Robinson (No.8), Richard Boyle (Lock) and Josh Beaumont (Lock, where else?) go.

Saying all of that, the squad is still lacks proven quality/ depth in both the front and back rows, which is obviously a worry.

It's not about money, it's about Cole wanting to be the number 1 TH at a big club. You had to choose between him and Castro and you chose the latter. Fair enough, but there are consequences. I reckon he's on his way to Sarries.

He plays as many games as Castro does, starts in some big games as well (HEC Qtr Final) and the rotation keeps him fresh and injury free. Why would he leave Tigers who have probabley the best set up in the AP (biggest ground, best attendances and top quality training/medical facilities) there is a good package offered by Tigers. Add to that there's talk on the offy forum that he's just bought himself a big house in Oadby a stones throw from the Tigers training ground.

Well if he's content to miss starts in big games (as he certainly will this season) then he'll stay. I reckon he will want to be the main man somewhere, as any decent TH would.

He'll get starts in the big games and he will also come on as a sub in the big games. Better to be trying to be the big fish in the biggest pond rather than a big fish in a small pond.