England vs. Argentina: Match Build Up.

First topic message reminder :

Rugby World Cup Pool B: Argentina v England
Venue: Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin Date: Saturday 10 September Kick-off: 0930.


England Team is up:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14817479.stm

Ben Foden, Chris Ashton, Manu Tuilagi, Mike Tindall (captain), Delon Armitage, Jonny Wilkinson, Richard Wigglesworth, Andrew Sheridan, Steve Thompson, Dan Cole, Louis Deacon, Courtney Lawes, Tom Croft, James Haskell, Nick Easter.

Replacements: Dylan Hartley, Matt Stevens, Tom Palmer, Tom Wood, Ben Youngs, Toby Flood, Matt Banahan.









The Argentina team has been announced via the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14800615.stm

Martin Rodriguez, Gonzalo Camacho, Gonzalo Tiesi, Santiago Fernandez, Horacio Agulla, Felipe Contepomi (captain), Nicolas Vergallo, Juan Fernandez Lobbe, Juan Manuel Leguizamon, Julio Farias Cabello, Patricio Albacete, Manuel Carizza, Juan Figallo, Mario Ledesma, Rodrigo Roncero.

Replacements: Agustin Creevy, Martin Scelzo, Mariano Galarza, Alejandro Campos, Alfredo Lalanne, Marcelo Bosch, Juan Jose Imhoff.

biltongbek wrote:The problem with this ARGENTINIAN team is we have no idea what they did in preparation apart from that one warm up match.

If they bring the passion they had of the previous world cup, then they can be dangerous.

Nobody rated them before then either.

Very good point. They really are an unknown quantity.

biltongbek wrote:Nobody rated them before then either.

And that's exactly what'll motivate them this time 'round.

I'm actually going to go back and watch that Wales-Argentina game again now to see if I see it any differently second time around.

I thought us welsh had passion but when I saw the tears of the Argentinian forwards rolling down their faces during their national anthem you have to respect that level of emotion for their country. Any from Patagonia by the way??

"By that much ---> 15 points"

I think that scoreline flattered Wales somewhat. Contepomi fluffed some pretty easy kicks.

I'm not saying Wales did not deserve to win but the lack of field position and possesion especially in the first half shows that they did not comftably win that game.

Pooly, you're right: saying Wales won 'without getting out of first gear' is a lie.

RubyGuby wrote:I thought us welsh had passion but when I saw the tears of the Argentinian forwards rolling down their faces during their national anthem you have to respect that level of emotion for their country. Any from Patagonia by the way??

I know Heinze the footballer is from Patagonia and speaks Spanish, Welsh, Italian (mother) and German (father).

I suppose the Welsh settlers left before rugby so there would be no links between these Welsh descendants and rugby. That seems really weird. I think a larger proportion of Argentinos rugby players are of Italian decent.

I have the impression that England generally start slowly in big competitions. So almost any side can cause us serious problems in the pools (thinks: USA) but in the end we've won the games we were supposed to win.

So I expect us to beat Argentina. But if sport were preordained we wouldn't watch it. And if we are foolish enough to take Argentina lightly, then they definitely have a chance.

And of course there are the stars we don't know yet. Perhaps some unknown Argentinean will scorch round our outsides for a hat trick - which is one of the things that makes the World Cup such compulsive watching.

Cowshot wrote:If we are foolish enough to take Argentina lightly, then they definitely have a chance.

They definitely have a chance even if you don't take them lightly...

They definitely have a chance even if you don't take them lightly...

You mean, like Wales/South Africa? Oh yes. Theoretically possible, but a touch on the unlikely side...

Who mentioned Wales v South Africa?

Me. I was looking for a good comparison for the likelihood of an upset and Wales South Afica positively hurtled into my mind. With a resounding squelch.

Cowshot did. In the post just before yours. The one you responded to.

If we take any side seriously we'd beat them. The only games were lose are the ones we're not really bothered about. You know, against the tri-nations teams, World cup finals, Grand slam deciders, most games between 2004-2007, etc

HammerofThunor wrote:Cowshot did. In the post just before yours. The one you responded to.

If we take any side seriously we'd beat them. The only games were lose are the ones we're not really bothered about. You know, against the tri-nations teams, World cup finals, Grand slam deciders, most games between 2004-2007, etc

Very good!

I am definitely not going to write off Argentina.

Especially after the London Double header where my team Saracens were the favourites against Wasps.

I'll happily take a 1 point win with a drop goal from Jonny in the dying seconds of the game as long as we win.

We should win but the Argentinians will definitely be pumped up for this. They always have something to prove as no one seems to take them seriously still despite having a good set of players.

Didn't they hammer France last year by 40 odd points?

England will need to be at the top of their game to get past this potential banana skin.

England will need to be at the top of their game to get past this potential banana skin.

I can see us stuttering to an unconvincing win with only about half our game functioning. It happens to us quite a bit in pool games anyway, and this is not a settled England side by any stretch of the imagination.

Thing is, I am confident we will win. They are every bit as unsettled as us, and the only area they pose a clear threat - the tight - is our strength.

Still, I could be wrong. Will certainly be glued to it.

And if Argentina DO upset the applecart and beat us - well, I couldn't begrudge them it.

chuckle. Had some recent "not begrudging" practice when Exeter beat Tigers.

Sorry, this Argentina team is pretty poor, scrum struggled against Wales, no kicker, Contepomi playing out of position (overrated anyway), no try scorers, defence lacking due to lack of preparation and tests over the last 12 months.
England, if they have any plans on making an impact on the WC should win pretty easily, with a decent display. Yes, I'll take a win by 3, but I'll be worried if it comes to that. We should have their number in all of the above categories PLUS impact from the bench.

England team is up:

Ben Foden, Chris Ashton, Manu Tuilagi, Mike Tindall (captain), Delon Armitage, Jonny Wilkinson, Richard Wigglesworth, Andrew Sheridan, Steve Thompson, Dan Cole, Louis Deacon, Courtney Lawes, Tom Croft, James Haskell, Nick Easter.

Replacements: Dylan Hartley, Matt Stevens, Tom Palmer, Tom Wood, Ben Youngs, Toby Flood, Matt Banahan.

No complaints with the team - but what's happened to Palmer? During the autumn internationals, and also in the 6 nations, he was being lauded as one of best players and as having finlly established himself in the team. At this time Deacon was seen, by many people, as an good club player but average test player. I'm personally not sure what to make of it - has Plamer lost form or Deacon suddenly gained some?

Interested to hear what Deacon has done to merit starting ahead of Palmer, both in Dublin and now (other than play for Leicester of course!!).
And of course there's Wigglesworth, who I've moaned about already. Hope it's warm in Dunedin as Ashton and Armitage will not be getting any ball with him and Wilkinson inside!

Deacon is grunt over guile and IMO is picked as it is against a powerful Argentina pack - this selection was forecast by many yesterday - Palmer is the classiest player all round but on Sat. Jonno has gone for something a bit more basic. Ironically I'm not quite sure if Deacon has the grunt for the Argies but we shall see. Would have loved to see Jonno back Palmer though.

rugbyfan wrote:No complaints with the team - but what's happened to Palmer? During the autumn internationals, and also in the 6 nations, he was being lauded as one of best players and as having finlly established himself in the team. At this time Deacon was seen, by many people, as an good club player but average test player. I'm personally not sure what to make of it - has Plamer lost form or Deacon suddenly gained some?

I think that's got more to do with peoples perceptions than changes in playing ability. Palmer got a lot of praise for his lineout work even though it was Deacon that ran the lineout (and we've been pretty at it for a while). I personally wouldn't have minded any combination of the 3 (Lawes, Palmer and Deacon).

Afternoon all.

RE: Argies, you miss the obvious reason that its great for english tabloids who no doubt have the headline including the phrase Argie Bargy lined up post match.

They Smeared the French all over the pitch in the last world cup and one of the best matches I've ever seen was that 3rd place playoff, they went at it hammer and tongs. Better than the previous 3rd place cruddy playoffs in previous years.

No doubt if things look iffy we could bring Bannanaman off t'bench, he enjoys scoring tries against this lot. (may be the only chance he gets lol)

HammerofThunor wrote:

rugbyfan wrote:No complaints with the team - but what's happened to Palmer? During the autumn internationals, and also in the 6 nations, he was being lauded as one of best players and as having finlly established himself in the team. At this time Deacon was seen, by many people, as an good club player but average test player. I'm personally not sure what to make of it - has Plamer lost form or Deacon suddenly gained some?

I think that's got more to do with peoples perceptions than changes in playing ability. Palmer got a lot of praise for his lineout work even though it was Deacon that ran the lineout (and we've been pretty at it for a while). I personally wouldn't have minded any combination of the 3 (Lawes, Palmer and Deacon).

But Deacon wasn't in the team - it was Palmer and Lawes - so it couldn't have been Deacon running the lineout.

Cumbrian wrote:England team is up:

Ben Foden, Chris Ashton, Manu Tuilagi, Mike Tindall (captain), Delon Armitage, Jonny Wilkinson, Richard Wigglesworth, Andrew Sheridan, Steve Thompson, Dan Cole, Louis Deacon, Courtney Lawes, Tom Croft, James Haskell, Nick Easter.

Replacements: Dylan Hartley, Matt Stevens, Tom Palmer, Tom Wood, Ben Youngs, Toby Flood, Matt Banahan.

Strong looking lineup indeed with a lot of fire power on the bench. I thought the backrow that played at Lansdowne looked more balanced though. I can see that side making the final to be honest but time will tell.

Best of luck for the WC hopefully our paths will cross along the way

roddersm wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:England team is up:

Ben Foden, Chris Ashton, Manu Tuilagi, Mike Tindall (captain), Delon Armitage, Jonny Wilkinson, Richard Wigglesworth, Andrew Sheridan, Steve Thompson, Dan Cole, Louis Deacon, Courtney Lawes, Tom Croft, James Haskell, Nick Easter.

Replacements: Dylan Hartley, Matt Stevens, Tom Palmer, Tom Wood, Ben Youngs, Toby Flood, Matt Banahan.

Strong looking lineup indeed with a lot of fire power on the bench. I thought the backrow that played at Lansdowne looked more balanced though. I can see that side making the final to be honest but time will tell.

Best of luck for the WC hopefully our paths will cross along the way

And the same to you sir!