Image and brandname of the regions!

Everyone seams to have a go at other regions for not embracing regionalisation, or not sticking with the old club values, so my question is who has done the best in reaching out to new supporters within the region creating a sense of regionalisation and a common team, while still keeping the old club supporters happy and sticking with the old club traditions and values.

It's a difficult question, as one approch may have worked for some teams that would never work for others, a very difficult tightrope to walk, you have to change enough so as you can attrach new supporters within your region, but also remain close enough to the orginal club so as not to alienate the existing club fans. This was particaulary important durning the regions formative years.


I'll start with Ospreys,

Created as a partnership between the area's two most successful clubs – Neath RFC and Swansea RFC. They created a mixed new name and image. At the start they kept the names of th etwo main clubs Neath and Swansea possibly alienating fans of other clubs in the area, at the start of the 2005–06 season, they dropped the Neath-Swansea prefix from their name and are simply known as the Ospreys. They chose Ospreys name as was a feature of Swansea's badge but played in black kits as Neath are the Welsh all black.

At the beginging they had a tough job as a partnership they could risk losing fans of either club and not gaining fans throughout the region, dropped the Neath Swansea to appeal to all, possible firm Swansea and Neath fans wouldn't accept this.

Since Ospreys were a partnership they may have had the toughest and easiest job of all the regions. Toughest in keeping the old club faithful happy and easiest as the sweeping changes made it easy for the new fans within the region to support them as they didn't associate them with an old club. Also given there star studded squad it makes it easier for a supporter to follow the most successful team in Wales. Have had problems with the Neath Swansea partnership in recent years.

Newport Gwent Dragons
They are jointly owned by Newport RFC and the Welsh Rugby Union. Had a difficult start as many believed that including the name Newport would alienate some fans in the surrounding valley. While much of the support in the larger Newport area, support greater identification with the City of Newport and a continuation of the historic traditions of Newport RFC.

They created a new badge and have slowly changed the kit so it is only vaguely similary to Newports, Still keep the Newport Element in there name, but have a loyal home following.

The Newport Gwent Dragons seam to have adopted the policy of slow evolution, keeping the Newport supporters happy while growing the regional concept. Probally seams to be the best way for them as th emajority of supports still wish to keep a Newport link.

Cardiff Blues

Cardiff RFC were allowed to create a stand alone club, they kept the history of Cardiff RFC and on their inception, the Cardiff Blues kit corresponded with the traditional Cardiff RFC colours of Cambridge blue and black they did however adopt a new badge.
Chief Executive, Robert Norster said, "A huge amount of effort has been made to ensure that the past 127 years of club traditions are not lost. We are delighted by the way these aspects have been respected and retained within the new modern brand." This close association with Cardiff RFC has led to feelings of resentment from members and supporters of other rugby clubs in the Cardiff Blues catchment area especially when the Celtic Warriors regional team was dissolved in 2004, bringing old rivals Pontypridd within the catchment area of the Cardiff Blues region and then calls for Cardiff to be dropped from the name.

Cardiff Blues have made slight changes to the kit but mostly stay true to their Cardiff RFC roots, as dropping Cardiff or major changes could lead to a drop in supporters from the orginal RFC club and may not gain any supporters from the valleys, even a move to a nearby stadium had fans annoyed.

Cardiff Blues have a very difficult job they have to appeal to the local Cardiff supporters who followed the old club and are not open to changes, while at the same time trying to appeal to fans in the Valleys which fall into their region that want nothing to be associated with the old RFC club. They cannot keep both sets of fans happy as they are at polar ends of what they want the image of the team to do. They have stuck with their image to appeal to the more numerous and local supporter base, and change does not look likley.

Scarlets

Llanelli were allowed to stand alone, and started under the name Llanelli Scarlets. In 2008, the Scarlets dropped the prefix "Llanelli" from their name in order to reflect their regional identity, they have kept the kit and badge (slightly modified) of Llanelli RFC.

Scarlets may have have th easist job as they were already seen as the team that represented west Wales before regionalisation, therefore they were able to keep the old club traditions and still appeal to the region. They have however made a few moves to better appeal as a regional team by dropping a placename from their team name. The hard part of the job for the Scarlets is that they are in an area with a low population density so cannot afford to alienate any groups of fans, as any loss would be keenly felt. They started very much as Llanelli, and have managed to keep the old club supports happy while slowly becoming more regional and moving stadium, a difficult job, but they continue to grow.

So looking back who did it best and what lies in the future?

I'll say what I always say, we have Llanelli, Swansea, Cardiff and Newport with different names. It's also perfectly sensible as well because they are the 3 largest cities in Wales and the largest town in Dyfed.
Rebranding is a load of crap and if people wanted to make the effort they could go and support the regions.

I work in a family business and am no where near rich, in fact I take home a lot less than if I was working for a non family company.
But I find the money to go and see rugby games, my Ospreys season ticket was only £160, which I think most people could find for a one off fee to see all their teams games, and I take a few mates with me and we split the £6 park and ride fee three ways so only pay £2 each. I buy a cheap bottle of water on the way there. Costs are minimal to be honest.
The bottom line is that people just can't be bothered, it's not a question of branding.

The biggest problem in regional rugby is Walk up ticket prices. All the regions are about £23 for a normal adult, which is too much and prohibitive. It is also very annoying when concessions are so cheap, each child, Oap or disabled person still takes up one seat, so adult prices should be lowered in line with these so people will come to the games.
The only ones who should be charged more are the big, fat, sweaty blokes, who's fat arsés take up their seat, and half of the next persons, which really písses me off! Don;t get me wrong I'm 15 stone myself, but when you see some elephant coming towards you, you know it's going to be a bad evening!

only problem is is that the north isint in anyway represented- the WRU need to get RGC branded and known as no one seems to know they exist!

Alyndavies - what would be a fair price for an adult to buy a Pro12 or Heineken Cup ticket?

Personally I would have thought around £20

red_stag wrote:Alyndavies - what would be a fair price for an adult to buy a Pro12 or Heineken Cup ticket?

Personally I would have thought around £20

£15 would be fairer to be honest, or they could grade the games by quality of opposition.
Glasgow, Edinburugh, Aironi, Treviso and Connaght could be £12
Ulster, Munster and Leinster say £16
and Welsh teams £20

bit unfair to grade games for quality of opposition I think, that wouldn't sit well with me at all, talk about discrediting your opposition.

I'd say £15 terrace and £20 seating ticket would be about right for me.

The Scarlets have had a lot of wobbles along the way in their rebranding process. They upset a lot of Llanelli people in their move away from Stradey, so much so that a lot of Llanelli people still won't go to Parc Y Scarlets. Add to that they had a couple of seasons where they handled everything business wise appallingly and got a really bad press/image in the local area.

In the village where I'm from, deep in the Scarlets region, it's about 50/50 in support for the Scarlets and the Ospreys. The Scarlets still have a lot of work to do to win local fans back over I feel, but we are slowly heading in the right direction.

I think a lot of football clubs alter their ticket prices when it comes to the quality of the opposition.

I think we just charge more for the interpros and pretty much the same for everyone else.

I used to support the warriors, but i changed my support to the Ospreys when they dropped the Neath, Swansea prefix and i realised Bridgend would never get it's region back, it helped that a couplle of my mates were already seasson ticket holders.

However, im definatly in the minority. The majority of boys who I played rugby with have zero interest in regional rugby. Some of them are still playing rugby. When i asked them why, majorityy dont like the regions, the rugby being played or the usual which is 'its not my region'.

I went to the first gaame of the season for the Ospreys, there was only 5,500 supporters there. Mosst people are indifferent to the regions, espicially my mates, it will take a generation of new supporters before the grounds are full weeek in week out

Personally I think the Ospreys have tried hard to make Bridgend part of the Region and have certainly invested a lot of time and effort in the development of the younger sides from U11 upwards. I know some people question what Andrew Hore does, but this is one initative I think is working well. Grass routes rugby is very strong in Bridgend and the O's have recognised this and are trying to embrace it

I agree, that last few years the Ospreys have invested time and effort in Bridgend. I think they realised that there is alot of talent in the area. What i was saying that with alot of people who would go and watch bridgend as a top club side then as a region, now have none of these. They point blank refuse to support the ospreys, most still see it as Neath and Swansea. Alot of people dont even bother watching any Rabo12, they just go and watch local teams.

Its all down to the young fans, who would be used to just going to watch the Ospreys. They are the ones who will be thhe next generations of supporters

From an outsiders point of view I think the Dragons are the closest of the 4 to the old clubs. Perhaps because their team was terrible for years, as was the stadium, but there seem to be more loyal supporters and families that come every week.
Compare that to the Liberty or the new Llanelli one which always seem to be empty...

I think if you spoke to Cuddy he would tell you he considers Ospreylia to be more Swansea Bridgend these days!!!! lol

I think there is some truth in that. With the new stadium being built in bridgeend, i was told that there would more games played in Bridgend, other than the LV games.

I really hope so, the atmosphere there last season for the win over Leicester was amazing. Considering it was a young side in terrible weather, there was a good turn out and a great buzz around the ground

I went to both games at the brewery field, both of which were pretty much sell outs. The young guns for the ospreys did put a show on, despite the weather

Just a note about Newport being in the name. I'm from Newport and want the word 'Newport' dropped. Everyone I know from Newport wants Newport dropped. Everyone I've seen post on here wants 'Newport' dropped. Some want just 'Dragons', some like me want just 'Gwent Dragons'.

Does anyone know anyone who wants the 'Newport' name kept??? Why are we persisting with it when the (albeit anecdotal) evidence suggests that fans, including those from Newport, want it dropped???!

It gets confusing for people outside Wales too as Newport RFC is still alive and well and playing at Rodney Parade on alternative weekends to the Dragons. Also, the name makes no sense. 'Newport Gwent Dragons' is like saying the 'Leicester Leicestershire' Tigers, or Bath Somerset Rugby, or Exeter Devon Chiefs. There's no need to name the town/city and then the county! The regions were not set up to divide Wales equally (unfortunately), and we are meant to cover the 5 counties of Gwent, so call us Gwent! Newport is just a 5th of that area and it sounds like I'm reading out my address when saying the team name! Daft.

there used to be a poster (on old 606 not sure who or if game over to 606) but he's argue for the Newport to be Kept as if dropped the Dragons fans that orginally supported Newport would drop off, he also said that sponsership etc from the town wouldn't be as forthcomming, and that they wouldn't get replacement in the Gwent area,

in short he said that the Dragons relay on Newport, and not Gwent, and therefore should keep it.

Personally I don't know Newport, or anything about it to say if tis was the case, however I'm of the opinion that the name should just be Gwent Dragons, or just Dragons, and that you should steal your badge back of the Scarlets.

how can they steal it back if they never had that badge in the first place, and the Scarlets have always had it??

your right maybe the Dragons could use an image of an Osprey as their badge

The Llanelli Badge and the Scarlets badge are different, the same as the Felinfoel Badge (a Llanelli Brewery) and the Scarlets Dragon are different.

Kingshu wrote:Personally I don't know Newport, or anything about it to say if tis was the case, however I'm of the opinion that the name should just be Gwent Dragons, or just Dragons, and that you should steal your badge back of the Scarlets.

The only region that did any stealing of identities would possibly be the Celtic Warriors, as Llanelli RFC did have a shirt with a Celtic Warrior on the front of it, and a maskot to that effect.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The Llanelli Badge and the Scarlets badge are different, the same as the Felinfoel Badge (a Llanelli Brewery) and the Scarlets Dragon are different.

SS,

That may well be the case but come lets me fair Llanelli in whatever guise have always been known as the Scarlets. Calling the Region now just the Scarlets is hardly a huge move away from their original roots.

As for th Dragons I would be very very happy with us being called Gwent Dragons and I know I have been shot down over this BUT I still think there is an oppotunity to move some of the smaller PRO12 games (Aironi) and certainly some of the LV games around the Region

The blues have, pretty much, 2 teams in the region and thats' cardiff & ponty. Ponty fans will never support the blues because everyone knows what they're like. The pre season friendly against ponty, for the blues, which was played at sardis...there were chants of 'I will never be a blue' from the ponty fans.

It's quite sad really, but hey...that's life.

Bedford:

I agree, I have been saying this for ages but certain supporters from Newport saying there are no pubs ( the pubs in Newport are not great), we will have to travel there or other stupid excusses but these same supporters expect the lads from the valleys to travel to Newport! You are correct, this will be a good way to expand the brand and get at the young supporters. The crowds at all regions prove regional rugby is not working, it does not help playing the Italians and the Scots as they don't bring any supporters.

gcblues:

It does not help asking Ponty supporters to travel to Cardiff and then move the ground further away to the bay, I know supporters from the Rhondda and they will not go to watch "Cardiff" besides the cost and time getting there. If the Blues were an inclusive region they would drop Cardiff in their name and play some games at Sardis road.

glamorganalun wrote:Bedford:

I agree, I have been saying this for ages but certain supporters from Newport saying there are no pubs ( the pubs in Newport are not great), we will have to travel there or other stupid excusses but these same supporters expect the lads from the valleys to travel to Newport! You are correct, this will be a good way to expand the brand and get at the young supporters. The crowds at all regions prove regional rugby is not working, it does not help playing the Italians and the Scots as they don't bring any supporters.

I'd be surprised if people mentioned pubs to you as the main point. I'd say most people would mention that facilities at places like Bedwas, Crosskeys, Cwmbran, Ebbw Vale and Pontypool aren't up to it. As in the grounds are rubbish, there can't be much corporate facilities and it is easier for everybody to get to and from Newport than anywhere else. You have to be realistic about this and accept that people who won't travel from the valleys and watch top level rugby (and not necessarily performances) because it's played in Newport, are shooting themselves in the foot and not the other way round. I'm more than happy to have 5-6000 (on average) passionate supporters and know that our support is growing year on year.

I'm not from Newport, was taught to dislike "the townies" when playing all the way through the age group levels and have always preferred Crosskeys to Newport, but it doesn't bother me that all games are played in Newport or that there's a Newport in the name. It's funny how people that notice the Newport in the name still won't acknowledge the logo is a Dragons tail in the shape of a G (Gwent), there's Men of Gwent on the collar and of course there's Gwent in the name. The only songs or chants heard at RP contain Dragons or Gwent, so really I don't see what more needs to be done.

It's interesting to note that the match ticket I picked up yesterday for a friend only had Dragons on there as opposed to the full name too. The kit is much more neutral every season, there's great links with all four current premiership clubs (Hugh Gustafson is playing for Bedwas I notice) and the Dragons do plenty to get themselves around the region at shows etc.

Good post RiscaRev, spot on.

Risca:

I think your are missing the point, the occational game in the LV at say Pontypool or Newbridge may get youngsters going to the matches and they may think this is good and start supporting the Dragons when they start earning. Saying 5K crowd is OK, that is what is wrong at the Dragons no ambition and they will not be able to afford decent players which in turn won't attract the crowds. The Dragons have invested in the ground, they must try to fill the ground every week to make the business viable.

glamorganalun wrote:gcblues:

It does not help asking Ponty supporters to travel to Cardiff and then move the ground further away to the bay, I know supporters from the Rhondda and they will not go to watch "Cardiff" besides the cost and time getting there. If the Blues were an inclusive region they would drop Cardiff in their name and play some games at Sardis road.

6 minutes down the A470 is hardly going to kill Ponty supporters to travel, I can get to the Cardiff stadium in 30 minutes from the outskirts of Porthcawl, if someone wants to make the effort they can easily.
People just can't be bothered, and walk up ticket prices are too expensive considering you can watch the games on tv anyway.

glamorganalun wrote:Bedford:

I agree, I have been saying this for ages but certain supporters from Newport saying there are no pubs ( the pubs in Newport are not great), we will have to travel there or other stupid excusses but these same supporters expect the lads from the valleys to travel to Newport! You are correct, this will be a good way to expand the brand and get at the young supporters. The crowds at all regions prove regional rugby is not working, it does not help playing the Italians and the Scots as they don't bring any supporters.

Cant be right, the club house is fantastic, and judging by the mini skirted teenage beauties I passed while driving over the bridge by the castle on the way out tonight, I would say there is definetly night life in Newport!
In fact I would say the best looking girls are to be found in the Newport crowd.
There are loads of stunning girls in Llanelli but they don't go to the stadium they are normally outside the shop "Bank" and HVM in the shopping center outside the stadium.

I think regional rugby is working, Wales have won 2 grandslams since it was introduced, yet won nothing during the Welsh league system which was introduced in 1991, in fact the Welsh premiership was Wales poorest time in our rugby history.
The problem is getting fans in the stadiums, and that is down to on the day ticket prices and competition from strong football clubs in the English pyramid system.

Alyn:

I don't agree the grand slams were a result of regional rugby all those players came out of club rugby, it is now we can judge regional rugby as we are seeing in the RWC.

Have you travelled from Treorchy to Cardiff by train it is the best part of an hour each way and getting there by car on a Friday/Sat evening about 45mins.

You are either very young or forget, I used to watch Cardiff V Swansea, Pontypool v Newport, Pontpridd v Cardiff etc and these games the grounds were packed and every game was a local derby not like now the Dragons were playing the other night and the "Italian" opposition were imports hardly improving Italian rugby i.e., rent a team. How many supporters did Arioni bring to the game?

I don't think that Dragons sponsership relies on the Newport name to be honest. Lets be realistic the Newport name is no great shakes in fact it actually means nothing. Cardiff is a much bigger name and better for marketing purposes and the Blues are currently struggling financially. In fact the biggest company in the Dragons region is PHS based in Caerphilly so maybe it should be called the Caerphilly Dragons so they could sponser them?

The reason Newport is still in the regions name is because the Dragons board is essentially the Newport board and they are stuck in some sort of time warp where they actually think that 1963 and all that is somehow relevant to the modern game.

Personally i think someone should tell them 2012 is nearly upon us and they should pick a more marketable name. Rugby is not just a sport anymore its an entertainment business the Dragons aren't merely competing with the Ospreys they are competing with Playstation and xbox. If they want fans to come they should pick a name thats not going to send them to sleep midway through hearing or saying it. Lets get a marketing team, a marketable name and move on.

"Lets get a marketing team, a marketable name and move on."

but like you say the Dragons board is essentially the Newport board, meaning that they will want to keep a greater association with Newport,
until either the WRU who own 50% of Dragons put their foot down (not likly to happen after 8 years they've let the chance go) or the WRU's stake is bought over by an amalgamation group of all the other clubs in the area, creating a proper region.

glamorganalun wrote:Alyn:

I don't agree the grand slams were a result of regional rugby all those players came out of club rugby, it is now we can judge regional rugby as we are seeing in the RWC.

Have you travelled from Treorchy to Cardiff by train it is the best part of an hour each way and getting there by car on a Friday/Sat evening about 45mins.

You are either very young or forget, I used to watch Cardiff V Swansea, Pontypool v Newport, Pontpridd v Cardiff etc and these games the grounds were packed and every game was a local derby not like now the Dragons were playing the other night and the "Italian" opposition were imports hardly improving Italian rugby i.e., rent a team. How many supporters did Arioni bring to the game?

We'll have to disagree on this issue I'm afraid then. Clearly the 4 Welsh regions playing the Irish teams week to week has improved standards for BOTH nations and we are no longer making up the numbers in the 6 Nations but are pretty even with France and England now. the Celtic/Italian league has been beneficial to us.

If Llanelli were sticking 90 points on Aberavon, Cardiff putting 80 on Abertillery and Swansea sticking 100 on Pontypool each week in the old system I can gurantee that standards in Welsh rugby would not of improved. Clearly our players playing the high intensity rugby against the best Irish players has been beneficial.

I cant comment on the train because I don't use them, I drive to the 4 Welsh regions, though being a truck driver for a living, I tend not to be worried about distances as much as a normal person might be.
I live just off junction 37 on the M4 (Porthcawl), and it is approx 40 minutes to Newport, 35 to Llanelli, 30 to Cardiff, and 25 to Swansea. Though going Westwards can be a bitch because of the 2 lane system as you approach Margam.

Clearly having no away support from most teams is an issue however, prices in the old Welsh league were also a lot cheaper, I remember paying £7 to watch Bridgend in the 90's, now your lucky if you only pay £20 for the same ticket. Local derbies can generate interest and rivalry but they didn't make Wales competitive, and sadly the Welsh league alone couldn't generate the income to have professional clubs. Even with 4 regions funded by the WRU the regions moan they can't compete for players because of the wages of players, so we would have no chance with 8-12 teams!
3 of the regions have new stadiums, and the Dragons have a new stand that opened last week, most have decent training facilities, with Llandarcy under construction at the moment for the Ospreys (I went there today delivering materials!).

rhino-dragon wrote:I don't think that Dragons sponsership relies on the Newport name to be honest. Lets be realistic the Newport name is no great shakes in fact it actually means nothing. Cardiff is a much bigger name and better for marketing purposes and the Blues are currently struggling financially. In fact the biggest company in the Dragons region is PHS based in Caerphilly so maybe it should be called the Caerphilly Dragons so they could sponser them?

The reason Newport is still in the regions name is because the Dragons board is essentially the Newport board and they are stuck in some sort of time warp where they actually think that 1963 and all that is somehow relevant to the modern game.

Personally i think someone should tell them 2012 is nearly upon us and they should pick a more marketable name. Rugby is not just a sport anymore its an entertainment business the Dragons aren't merely competing with the Ospreys they are competing with Playstation and xbox. If they want fans to come they should pick a name thats not going to send them to sleep midway through hearing or saying it. Lets get a marketing team, a marketable name and move on.

This is what confuses me about Dragons fans, the guys here seem to embrace the Dragons culture, yet if you go on the Newport RFC forums, they hate it and are incensed that there is no Amber on the jersey, and many refuse to wear any jersey bearing the name Gwent, where some equally stubborn Pontypool, Cross Keys fans won't support the region because of the name Newport. Fans have a far more varied view point on the Dragons than the fans of other regions.
Though I will happily say the Dragons fans are the most fun and create the best atmosphere by a mile, the best looking female fans also. Sitting in the club house before the Aironi game was good fun, and they are very friendly, I ended up chatting to a load of Oap fans who seem to comandeer the seats next to the seats next to the club and Wales representative wall panels. Great bunch of guys, even when I told them I was an Osprey season ticket holder!
Listening to their plans for the Trip to Italy when they play Prato in the Challenge Cup made me laugh, imagine Last of the Summer Wine, with the 3 old men, racing a gambo down a lane, holding on for dear life and you get the idea!

Rhino:

You have changed your tune for the better, the Dragons must move on and it is important to increase the support to get more revenue (including sponsors) and then attract or hold on to the better players as well as improve facilities. I detect a big change in Dragons supporters that hopefully will move the region onwards and upwards. The biggest company in the region is "General Dynamics" by a big margin, this is a company the Dragons should try to attractive before the Blues pinch another sponsor under the noses of the Dragons (EADS is Newport, they own Airbus).

Actually I think he Dragons are the best supported team in Wales and their stadium has the best atmosphere, with everyone pretty much in the Hazel stand it creates a nice place to be in.

What I like best is there is no way you can get wet in the Hazel stand seating area, you really are undercover!

The Blues stadium seems to suck the rain into it, roof or not!

glamorganalun wrote:Rhino:

You have changed your tune for the better, the Dragons must move on and it is important to increase the support to get more revenue (including sponsors) and then attract or hold on to the better players as well as improve facilities. I detect a big change in Dragons supporters that hopefully will move the region onwards and upwards. The biggest company in the region is "General Dynamics" by a big margin, this is a company the Dragons should try to attractive before the Blues pinch another sponsor under the noses of the Dragons (EADS is Newport, they own Airbus).

I must say that i am confused by your first sentence particularly as i have been saying pretty much the same thing for about 8 years now.

AlynDavies wrote:

rhino-dragon wrote:I don't think that Dragons sponsership relies on the Newport name to be honest. Lets be realistic the Newport name is no great shakes in fact it actually means nothing. Cardiff is a much bigger name and better for marketing purposes and the Blues are currently struggling financially. In fact the biggest company in the Dragons region is PHS based in Caerphilly so maybe it should be called the Caerphilly Dragons so they could sponser them?

The reason Newport is still in the regions name is because the Dragons board is essentially the Newport board and they are stuck in some sort of time warp where they actually think that 1963 and all that is somehow relevant to the modern game.

Personally i think someone should tell them 2012 is nearly upon us and they should pick a more marketable name. Rugby is not just a sport anymore its an entertainment business the Dragons aren't merely competing with the Ospreys they are competing with Playstation and xbox. If they want fans to come they should pick a name thats not going to send them to sleep midway through hearing or saying it. Lets get a marketing team, a marketable name and move on.

This is what confuses me about Dragons fans, the guys here seem to embrace the Dragons culture, yet if you go on the Newport RFC forums, they hate it and are incensed that there is no Amber on the jersey, and many refuse to wear any jersey bearing the name Gwent, where some equally stubborn Pontypool, Cross Keys fans won't support the region because of the name Newport. Fans have a far more varied view point on the Dragons than the fans of other regions.
Though I will happily say the Dragons fans are the most fun and create the best atmosphere by a mile, the best looking female fans also. Sitting in the club house before the Aironi game was good fun, and they are very friendly, I ended up chatting to a load of Oap fans who seem to comandeer the seats next to the seats next to the club and Wales representative wall panels. Great bunch of guys, even when I told them I was an Osprey season ticket holder!
Listening to their plans for the Trip to Italy when they play Prato in the Challenge Cup made me laugh, imagine Last of the Summer Wine, with the 3 old men, racing a gambo down a lane, holding on for dear life and you get the idea!

Alyn, I think what you're seeing there in the Newport RC forums is possibly the ones who didn't 'turn regional'. I'm guessing, but I reckon that all other teams in Gwent retained the vast majority of their support. By this I mean that Pontypool, Corss Keys, Ebbw Vale, etc. season ticket holders in the main remained with their clubs and didn't ditch their club season ticket for a Dragons one. At Newport RFC a large number of people ditched their Newport tickets for dragons ones. I am one of them, and I am in a group of mates of around 10 who did the same. We still look out for Newport scores, they're still our home town club, but the Dragons are the team we follow. There is therefore this situation where you have diehard Newport RFC fans who did not and will not change sides, Newport RFC fans who changed sides, and a number of fans from the other teams in Gwent who switched sides. If you go on Newport RFC forums you'll mainly find diehard Newport RFC fans. I think that's pretty obvious. We now have diehard Dragons fans too, but they'll be found on sites such as Draggedup, etc.

My point is that in any new venture you'll have those who stay behind, those that follow and those that start afresh sometime down the line (e.g. the youth who only know the Dragons as the pro team in the region). You can't blame fans for staying loyal to their club side. You can say 'move with the times' but there's no law in not supporting your local club. If it happened in football, I would imagine that 'manchester dragons', a regional team made up of MUFC, Man City, Stockport, Rochdale, Oldam, Wigan and all of the other 'Greater Manchester' teams, and playing at Man UTD's ground, would be mainly Man UTD supported. A lot would carry on supporting their club sides in the lower leagues.

The bottom line is that for a diehard fan, changing allegiance when your club side still exists, is sacriledge! I fully understand people wanting to support their local team. For me the choice was between watching pro and semi-pro rugby in my 'area', and I chose to watch the pro team. For others, the decision is to stay with their club who they love dearly. You wouldn't ask a Newport County football fan to change to supporting Cardiff City just because they are in a much higher league, or the standard is better. This is where regionalisation struggles. We need to wait until the young people coming through, who will increasingly know little of the semi-pro clubs (as they will perhaps have none of the stars of regional rugby), come to regional rugby as the only thing they know. In Ireland it's easier because your province is your province, has been since before the rugby teams. We do not have that and cannot expect people form mid wales to feel an association to a far flung region over their local side. It won't work.

rhino-dragon wrote:I don't think that Dragons sponsership relies on the Newport name to be honest. Lets be realistic the Newport name is no great shakes in fact it actually means nothing. Cardiff is a much bigger name and better for marketing purposes and the Blues are currently struggling financially. In fact the biggest company in the Dragons region is PHS based in Caerphilly so maybe it should be called the Caerphilly Dragons so they could sponser them?

The reason Newport is still in the regions name is because the Dragons board is essentially the Newport board and they are stuck in some sort of time warp where they actually think that 1963 and all that is somehow relevant to the modern game.

Personally i think someone should tell them 2012 is nearly upon us and they should pick a more marketable name. Rugby is not just a sport anymore its an entertainment business the Dragons aren't merely competing with the Ospreys they are competing with Playstation and xbox. If they want fans to come they should pick a name thats not going to send them to sleep midway through hearing or saying it. Lets get a marketing team, a marketable name and move on.

Good job the Dragons have Bisley then isn't it Rhino - Bisley are based in Newport & Mr Brown is on record as saying his involvment in the rugby is partly due to the excellent workforce he has at his factory in the city - so Newport is important for sponsorship.PHS do sponsor Dragons don't they?
Things are moving along nicely at the Dragons & are set to go ballistic when the five guys get back from the world cup - If Wales can get the the quarters or beyond the kids in the region will be made up to go & see Toby,Dan,Brewy,Luke & Burnsyplay live down at the revamped RP - the key to growth is the off field activities which apparently going really well & loads in the pipeline & off course,keeping this squad together & adding more quality to it - Watch this space

It all sounds very messy. How lucky us Irish were to have four ready made provinces sitting there waiting to get plugged into professional rugby.

Just to point out that you can't get to Newport from Ebbw Vale by train without going itno Cardiff so its not that easy for Valley people to get to Newport either.

Bedford:

I saw something in a local paper about the possibilty of a halt east of Newport but heard nothing since it will be a bit of a treck to the ground?

Tonderai Chavanga on his way!!

Dragon999 i seriously doubt the five returning players will make that much difference to the Dragons fortune truth be told. They will still be the fourth Welsh region this season.

Let us not forget that the Bisley factory is only in Newport as they could not get any staff in Bisley and cheap labour was readily available in Newport. I bet the three other regions get more sponsership than the Dragons as they are not afraid to look outside of LLanelli, Cardiff and Swansea.

rhino-dragon wrote:Dragon999 i seriously doubt the five returning players will make that much difference to the Dragons fortune truth be told. They will still be the fourth Welsh region this season.

Let us not forget that the Bisley factory is only in Newport as they could not get any staff in Bisley and cheap labour was readily available in Newport. I bet the three other regions get more sponsership than the Dragons as they are not afraid to look outside of LLanelli, Cardiff and Swansea.

Hi Rhino - It's a tough world out there but i bet the Dragons are doing everything they can to secure more sponsorship - There is a knew regime now as i'm sure you know & things are moving foward - I detect from your tone that there are buisneses out there that the Dragons could/should tap into?
As to where the Dragons finish in the league this season, we'll see - The players coming back form WRC will make a differnce because kids will want to come & see worls cup winners playing at RP

Hey whats all this craic about Welsh fans getting upset about people calling the regions by their location rather than the franchise name?

Can I call the blues Cardiff or what? What about Llanelli?

roddersm wrote:Hey whats all this craic about Welsh fans getting upset about people calling the regions by their location rather than the franchise name?

Can I call the blues Cardiff or what? What about Llanelli?

I shouldn't really answer, but I will. Despite Scarlets claiming their 1,00,000th game or whatever it is, they are Scarlets purely or even though Blues supporters still shout Cardiff in the stadium, they are the Blues. Most people will and should disagree with you calling them by their location because there are clubs in the Welsh Premiership sharing the same location name. I'll forgive most people out of Wales, but can't stand people from Wales who call the regions by their location name.

I'm sure you're wumming, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Should I call Leinster, Dublin?

Risca Rev wrote:

I'm sure you're wumming, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Should I call Leinster, Dublin?

No I'm not wumming. I didn't realise it was an issue. I don't care what you call Leinster to be honest. I think people are getting a bit oversensitive here. Most people outside of Wales don't really give a flip about rivalries between Welsh towns and villages and the branding of the Welsh regions. My understanding was that the Cardiff blues and Llanelli Scarlets represented the said locations so I often refer to them by the location rather than the brand name. I'll try to avoid this in future.