Does moving to a big club make you a better player?

In the two most recent England games, and so far this season there have been two players that have really caught my eye and several pundits as well and they are Ashley Young and Stewart Downing. Both have had big-money moves away from Aston Villa in the summer to two bigger clubs; Manchester United and Liverpool respectively.

There does seem to have been a notable improvement in the performances of both these players, while they looked good at Villa they seemed to have raised the quality of their game a lot since their moves, however my question is whether that is actually true?

It certainly seems that way, but is it simply that we think they are playing better because we recognise them as playing for a bigger side, or have their moves given them more confidence to perform better? Ashley Young looks truly international class recently, playing very well for both United and England, and Stewart Downing, a player I didn't rate too highly at Villa, has completley proved me wrong in his displays so far for Liverpool.

What are your thoughts?

Some players benefit from the move up in class it sometimes raises their expectations of themselves and often they are no longer the big fish any more. Often meaning they can no longer relax and have to fight for their place once more. Charlie Adam would be a prime example of someone who looked like the Scottish First Division was his level until moving away from Rangers.

Other players just improve for being able to play with better players and in turn those better players make each other look less vulnerable.

Then you have players who are always as good but get overlooked as they are at unfashionable clubs meaning once they move on they must be better. As for Downing and Young I'd say neither has improved for their moves individually as they were terrific at Villa last season and Young for a number now.

sometimes a player will learn to pefrom on the bigger stage better when playing for a big club, who knows how the likes of le tis would have been like if he moved. he could have been a flop like many players have been who have major success for one team (beattie and phillips are two who did it at one club but moved on and didnt have as much success).

the other point is players will often look better while playing for a better team, look at young for example. we all know what he does, he wants to cuts in and get a shot on target at united he will be given alot more oppurtunity because the defence simply cant double up on him as they have others like rooney and nani who will exploit the space. at villa they could get away with it

Peter Schmichael said players are automatically better when they sign for Man Utd, he said that these already good players become far more confident which allows them to try more things and be far more positive, I think while they might improve a bit physically, I believe it's mentally they really improve

Would you not say that a new manager would play a massive part rather than it just being seen as the new club?

I know it isn't the same with all managers but like gaffer said, every player seems to become so much better when they join United and Liverpool too in recent Dalglish times, would even go as far to say Tottenham too with Redknapp. They all have great ability in making players believe in themselves.

Fair point, or a load of ballocks?

think tottenham would be strecthing it harry buys so many players that some have to come off, but if you look at the likes of jenas, palacios, bent, pavlechencko, corluka, dos santos, hutton. all these players came with quite big reputations which since they probably have under performed. its been a bit of a grave yard spurs until recent years with bale and modric the only major success storys

while not being a massive fan would have to add van der vaart as the other success, they just had to change the whole system to fit him in

it depends who your playing with i think, or who the manager is, to improve you as a player.

C & R

Bent has been quality for us.

I hope Hutton can be just as good.

Jenas will be ok, only on loan, hope h does ok when he plays.

With Young & Downing, they were quality players for us, they probably will become better players, they're playing with better players which will help them progress.

In fairness good luck to both of them.
Just not when we play L'pool & Utd.

I think it is just exposure, and people's perception, not the fact that they have become better players over night.

As a Boro fan, I have always known how good Stewart Downing is, but playing for Middlesbrough isn't exactly fashionable, so he was not lauded as much as he has been since his moves to Villa (a step up in terms of club size) and Liverpool (another step up) - and has been in the main derided by the southern based media as some sort of no hoper.

I for one am glad he is starting to prove people wrong, but this is no over night turn around - he has always been quality, he was also player of the season at Villa last year.

I imagine that Ashley Young has followed a similar path!

In an effort to dispell this belief, Andy Carrol has so far looked dreadful since his move to a @big club@

It depends on the player, with the right attitude they will but if they look around and think theyve arrived and don't need to put the work in then they'll fail miserably.

Playing and training with better players should lift a players game plus better coaches and facilities with greater science involved as well.

westisbest wrote:C & R

Bent has been quality for us.

I hope Hutton can be just as good.

Jenas will be ok, only on loan, hope h does ok when he plays.

With Young & Downing, they were quality players for us, they probably will become better players, they're playing with better players which will help them progress.

In fairness good luck to both of them.
Just not when we play L'pool & Utd.

i was singling them players careers at spurs not villa, as someone said harry gets the best out his players yet those players went to spurs yet flopped. someone like bent has shown that he's talented and harry certainly didnt get the best out of him

compelling and rich wrote:

westisbest wrote:C & R

Bent has been quality for us.

I hope Hutton can be just as good.

Jenas will be ok, only on loan, hope h does ok when he plays.

With Young & Downing, they were quality players for us, they probably will become better players, they're playing with better players which will help them progress.

In fairness good luck to both of them.
Just not when we play L'pool & Utd.

i was singling them players careers at spurs not villa, as someone said harry gets the best out his players yet those players went to spurs yet flopped. someone like bent has shown that he's talented and harry certainly didnt get the best out of him

The amount of player he gets , a few of them are bound to turn out ok. He didnt even want VDV. Levy asked him if he wanted hiom as he was available on deadline day. Also Comoli bought the likes of Bale, Huddlestone, Luka Modrić and Benoit Assou-Ekotto

Certainly where Downing is concerned, he hasn't shown anything at his short time at Liverpool than he hadn't at Villa or boro'.

Cleverly played what? 30 mins in the Community Shield for United and that gets him selected for England. He again showed nothing he hadn't already at Wigan last season.

Some good points being made here, and I can't add anything to them really, other than I agree that the biggest improvement can only be mentally.

It always makes me laugh when a player is called up seemingly only because they play for a bigger club -- their attributes have always been the same, but for some reason they're instantly more desireable!

it all depends really, if you have a team built almost solely to your strengths ala torres, then when you move to a club where you are essentially just another person, then it rarely works out

I think you could probably argue quite a few reasons why a player might look better for a move to a bigger club.

It might be that players become less of a target than they would be at a smaller team, where they would be the standout player and are therefore more able to play their own game.

You could also argue that in the case of wingers, what's often noticed is end product. If Ashley Young gets a cross in and no-one's on the end of it, it looks like bad play. However, it's more likely someone will be on the end of it at a bigger club, because his team mates are better quality. His team mates deliver to his standards and therefore make him look better.

"As a Boro fan, I have always known how good Stewart Downing is, but playing for Middlesbrough isn't exactly fashionable"

Gotta say i have to agree with you. I think Downing has always been a good player. And he is a winger who knows how to cross a ball very well also....

Also about players improving......If man city would like to offer us 30m for Shola...we can find out

In general it has to do with the players around you and the system the manager is playing. When Andy Cole came from Newcastle to Man Utd at first he did not score regularly, at Utd he had to work harder. He could not just stay in the box and wait for the ball to come to him and score ala Newcastle Once he started to do this he became for confident and the rest is history.

A bigger club, a different work ethic brings out other qualities that were not realised at a previous club. Also players seem to raise their standards especially at Utd. Another factor is your opponents. At a smaller club opponents view you differently and maybe don't try as hard but against Utd they play as if it is their cup final.