The England 'scandal' bandwagon: is it ruining the world cup for anyone else?

I am unbelievably sick of the ‘scandal’ surrounding the England team. I think it's criminal that the English media can get away with this spin and fabrication, and - what's more - sickening that they should actively seek to bring down their own team. There hasn't been a single slice of genuine wrongdoing in my opinion, yet half the world (including my mrs - who got wind of the 'scandal' via heat magazine!) are now firmly on the 'England are a bunch of ill-disciplined, immoral miscreants' bandwagon, and that's before you even look at the often insanely over-the-top, doomsday analysis of our performances:

• Bungee jumping: so what? They’re grown men. They’re in the adventure sports capital of the world. They physically can’t train all the time. It’s not just that I have no problem with it, I actually think it’s a good idea and Johnson should be commended for letting them go!

• Lawes ban: Shouldn’t have been a ban IMO. Accidental and harsh - even if it was a ban, it certainly wasn't cynical foul play, and doesn't warrant the moralising.

• The mad midget weekender: They had over a week off, they went for some beers. The bar manager said they were good as gold. Zara Phillips said that bird who kissed Tindall’s head (sex crime?!) was an old friend. Case closed. No scandal.

• Armitage’s ban: Again, massively unlucky. If it’d been spotted during the game it would have been a penalty and a talking-to. I’ve seen much more malicious high tackles receive much more lenient sanction.

• ‘Harassing’ the hotel maid: Transparently overblown. Some rugby lads make sexual innuendo to a fit bird – STOP THE PRESS!! The fact that the world “only realised how upset the female had been by the incident” several days later – after an apology had been made and everything was sorted – should tell everyone everything they need to know about that invented ‘scandal’.

• Tuilagi’s shameless advertising infringement: The best yet. The guy has been wearing the same gum shield for over a year!! He had no idea – something that the IRB have acknowledged! As soon as he realised, he coloured-in the sponsor's name. But the bandwagon is in motion: just another disgusting chapter in the ‘ill-disciplined England’ saga.

I would be tempted to say that the IRB and New Zealand are being anti-English, but the truth is that 90% of it is our own media's doing!! There is nothing in the world I hate more than a moralising journalist: in my mind it's principally akin to a self-righteous murderer, or a feminist naughty person. It's a world cup - something every fan looks forward to, and a cause of celebration. I buy the paper wanting to get into the action, read the latest news, the pre-match hype, the analysis......and instead I have to read speculation about whether Mike Tindall got a kebab on the way home from his night out or not.

I'm emigrating.

Nope. Doesn't bother me.

I will say that they're getting far too much coverage though. I know the Irish team went bungee jumping - one player (hasn't been named) did it naked apparently. I think those extreme sports are good for team building, and individuals confidence, so no harm there.

The media were waiting for this to happen - Tindall, married to a royal going on a rugby trip without her. They must've been rubbing their hands with glee before he got off the plane in NZ.

Its true its all down to Tindall marrying into the royal family.

As for the rest, the mouthguard is rather pathetic and highlights the IRB's hatred for England. The Aussie kiss thing, ok Haskell went too far (he is a muppet) but Heartly told him to stop at that point, but because he and Ashton were in the same room they were all to blame once again Pathetic and a non story.

and as for her being fit! I'm sorry but if you mean looks then no she isn't.

The Drinking evening through a different lens:

The England team were welcomed by their supporters as they joined them for drinks after a game. The local Dunedin bar, which has become a favourite with the travelling English support, was packed with fans as the English players signed autographs, posed for pictures, and spent a few hours talking rugby.

Said one supporter, "What a wonderful surprise to have the actual English team join us for a drink after the game, as opposed to staying locked in their hotel. Having travelled all this way, it's marvellous to mix with our rugby heroes."

Duplicate post in the "International" section.....why oh why oh why do we have a seperate section just so we can get duplicated articles?

Its not always easy to see if there is a duplicate post due to how the pages are set out, relax Peter.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Duplicate post in the "International" section.....why oh why oh why do we have a seperate section just so we can get duplicated articles?

Flag it up to the mods, and they'll merge the relevant duplicated threads. Easy!

You missed out the ball switching.

They say a country is deserving of its politicians. Can the same be said of its media?

Ruining the World Cup for me? Why would it do that? Couldn´t care a less what England do off the field.

Here´s a tip. Just stick to the match reports.

The gum shield thing wasn't just England. A Samoan got fined too.

Also, there could be others who have received fines. IRB doesn't release details until after the RWC apparently, and will only confirm if the relevant country announces the fine.

What they need is Alastair Campbell to be their press secretary

I love it. Its typical English geezers on a Stag Tour...

The only subtle differ being...

double post

Doesn't bother me. Doesn't even interest me. I keep hearing people making jokes about "dwarf throwing", and I don't actually know what they're on about because I haven't read up on the specifics of what they're getting up to.

All I know is that the English may have a discipline issue with a handful of players. Maybe it's nothing, maybe there's something to it. If there is that's fine by me. Because we might be meeting them in the semi finals and an unhappy camp can effect performances.

Not ruining it for me. Media stories like those are mostly w***krs. On the other hand you poms shouldn't get too much stuck on the victim thing too. For instance the idea that the IRB hate England when the first I knew about the story was that a Samoan player had been fined.

nganboy wrote:Not ruining it for me. Media stories like those are mostly w***krs. On the other hand you poms shouldn't get too much stuck on the victim thing too. For instance the idea that the IRB hate England when the first I knew about the story was that a Samoan player had been fined.

both tuilagi brothers have been fined, they use the same brand.

Cari wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Duplicate post in the "International" section.....why oh why oh why do we have a seperate section just so we can get duplicated articles?

Flag it up to the mods, and they'll merge the relevant duplicated threads. Easy!

Apparently they dont read the "general " section either, its full of "International" articles.

<warpath against sub fora>

It really is comepltly pointless having the world cup discussion hidden away in a secondary board

• ‘Harassing’ the hotel maid: Transparently overblown. Some rugby lads make sexual innuendo to a fit bird – STOP THE PRESS!! The fact that the world “only realised how upset [money grabbing b*tch] had been by the incident” several days later – after an apology had been made and everything was sorted – should tell everyone everything they need to know about that invented ‘scandal’.

I'm dismayed that you've put the word harassing in ironic quotes, and have labelled the victim a "bitch". I think this is why there is so much sexual assault in the world and so few prosecutions.

If anybody in my company had such a substantiated claim of sexual harassment leveled at them. (to the point where they admitted culpability and appologised), they would be summarily fired with no compensation.

The fact that this sort of behaviour is being supported by "fans" and the victim is being mocked, is frankly sickening.

You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

• ‘Harassing’ the hotel maid: Transparently overblown. Some rugby lads make sexual innuendo to a fit bird – STOP THE PRESS!! The fact that the world “only realised how upset [money grabbing b*tch] had been by the incident” several days later – after an apology had been made and everything was sorted – should tell everyone everything they need to know about that invented ‘scandal’.

I'm dismayed that you've put the word harassing in ironic quotes, and have labelled the victim a "bitch". I think this is why there is so much sexual assault in the world and so few prosecutions.

If anybody in my company had such a substantiated claim of sexual harassment leveled at them. (to the point where they admitted culpability and appologised), they would be summarily fired with no compensation.

The fact that this sort of behaviour is being supported by "fans" and the victim is being mocked, is frankly sickening.

You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.

Well said GG.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

• ‘Harassing’ the hotel maid: Transparently overblown. Some rugby lads make sexual innuendo to a fit bird – STOP THE PRESS!! The fact that the world “only realised how upset [money grabbing b*tch] had been by the incident” several days later – after an apology had been made and everything was sorted – should tell everyone everything they need to know about that invented ‘scandal’.

I'm dismayed that you've put the word harassing in ironic quotes, and have labelled the victim a "bitch". I think this is why there is so much sexual assault in the world and so few prosecutions.

If anybody in my company had such a substantiated claim of sexual harassment leveled at them. (to the point where they admitted culpability and appologised), they would be summarily fired with no compensation.

The fact that this sort of behaviour is being supported by "fans" and the victim is being mocked, is frankly sickening.

You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.

I dont agree with you much but I do here, fair play. They are professional sportsmen - being a rugby player doesn't give you carte blamche do do whatever you like.

As I've said elsewhere, the only one that really riles me is Haskell being such a f*ckwit, especially given the controversy during our last tour of New Zealand.

Even the Sun have finally admitted that the 'mystery blonde' HRH Tinds was seen with was his former girlfriend, not some random bird in a pub.

Lawes and Armitage's incidents were both related to on-field actions, so simply are what they are. I think both bans (Delon's in particular) were a little harsh, but nothing to get too worked up about.

The gumshield thing is one of the stupidest stories I've heard in a long time - Manu was provided with this gumshield by the RFU for taking part in the junior RWC, and had even attempted to obscure the 'offending' logo. And of all the pieces of kit a rugby player has, the gumshield is probably the one where the perfect fit is most important.

The ball swapping seems to me like sensible professionalism if you can get away with it, especially as these balls do seem to not suit some of the goal kickers (I seem to recall similar problems last tournament - some normally very reliable kickers were unable to control the ball while others had no difficulty).

munkian wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:

• ‘Harassing’ the hotel maid: Transparently overblown. Some rugby lads make sexual innuendo to a fit bird – STOP THE PRESS!! The fact that the world “only realised how upset [money grabbing b*tch] had been by the incident” several days later – after an apology had been made and everything was sorted – should tell everyone everything they need to know about that invented ‘scandal’.

I'm dismayed that you've put the word harassing in ironic quotes, and have labelled the victim a "bitch". I think this is why there is so much sexual assault in the world and so few prosecutions.

If anybody in my company had such a substantiated claim of sexual harassment leveled at them. (to the point where they admitted culpability and appologised), they would be summarily fired with no compensation.

The fact that this sort of behaviour is being supported by "fans" and the victim is being mocked, is frankly sickening.

You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.

I dont agree with you much but I do here, fair play. They are professional sportsmen - being a rugby player doesn't give you carte blamche do do whatever you like.

Hear hear. Dont care what the england rugby team get up to to be honest.

Lawes and Armitage being thugs is not big news. As for cheating with the balls? Just stupid. Why do certain people feel the need to cheat?? Have they been cheating all along?

Maybe its not the last time we will hear about someone in the england camp cheating. Maybe it is.

As for the sexism, cheating on wives ect ect..... I don't really care what they do.

I thought that Cueto condoning it all as just high-jinks - was even worse.

Shut them and lock them up Jonno. This kind of stuff is food for the French. And you know how they love to eat.

GG.

I think there may be an element of English rugby players who are used to playing second fiddle in the celebrity stakes in England, discovering the fish bowl of rugby in NZ.

Some of our players have deported themselves with equal lack of self regulation in the past and have been treated to equally heightened public scrutiny.

That said, it's a world cup. England camp surprised that unsavoury behaviour prompts media backlash - STOP THE PRESS.

Thanks for that post GG. I think the fact that Adam called the woman involved a "b*tch" says more about him than her. I would have mentioned this myself, but being Welsh and female probably wouldn't have helped my cause...

There's no condoning what's happened and some of the players really need a kick up the backside. However, there seems to be a fair bit of holier-than-thou high-horsery going on from some who will use this as the perfect opportunity to have a pop at England. Naming no names.

Pops are made, where pops are deserved.

If people don't want to provoke pops, don't perpetrate popatable actions.

Q: The England 'scandal' bandwagon: is it ruining the world cup for anyone else?
A: Yes, it is taking the sheen off it for me

I can't help but think it's a shame that rather than going to their room to get back her walkie-talkie, it would have been far funnier in retrospect if she'd called the police and had them arrested for theft.

"England players loot hotel" would probably have been more in keeping with their cultural background, perhaps.

But then I suppose she had no idea that these buffoons would turn out to be buffoons of the desperate sexual predatory variety.

GG, you clearly work in HR, or are - in fact - Jesus. Thanks for the moral lesson....I will consider myself shamed.

From your higher moral plain you are obviously free to decry this shameful, heinous crime, but from where I'm sitting - in the real world - I feel that it has been overblown, and I suspect that the inevitable (and lucrative) media storm that follows these supposed 'scandals' was a factor in this lady's decision to escalate the incident several days after it had - to the knowledge of all involved - been resolved.

Don't get me wrong, it's impossible to defend what Haskell said - it was pretty childish and stupid - but when I was about 14 I once farted on my sister's head whilst she was watching the telly: in the cold light of day this was a very stupid thing to do, and, indeed, is totally indefensible. Luckily for me, there wasn't a bevvy of bored and malevolent journo's waiting in the wings to assassinate my character, and the incident was forgotten in 5 minutes, as soon as the smell cleared.

Adam, you don't need the morality of a deity to know that sexual harassment is inappropriate.

The fact that you are condoning their behaviour shows that you are either still 14, or have an IQ of 14.

Who condoned their behaviour? I said the incident had been overblown. Which part of the statement "it's impossible to defend what Haskell said" made you think I was condoning their behaviour?

Do you think they should be locked-up?

Adam wrote:GG, you clearly work in HR, or are - in fact - Jesus. Thanks for the moral lesson....I will consider myself shamed.

From your higher moral plain you are obviously free to decry this shameful, heinous crime, but from where I'm sitting - in the real world - I feel that it has been overblown, and I suspect that the inevitable (and lucrative) media storm that follows these supposed 'scandals' was a factor in this lady's decision to escalate the incident several days after it had - to the knowledge of all involved - been resolved.

Don't get me wrong, it's impossible to defend what Haskell said - it was pretty childish and stupid - but when I was about 14 I once farted on my sister's head whilst she was watching the telly: in the cold light of day this was a very stupid thing to do, and, indeed, is totally indefensible. Luckily for me, there wasn't a bevvy of bored and malevolent journo's waiting in the wings to assassinate my character, and the incident was forgotten in 5 minutes, as soon as the smell cleared.

That's not what your sister said!

When you add the word "but" directly after "It's impossible to defend..." you actually are attempting to condone it by minimising the incident. You are also mocking the victim and attempting to discredit her character, Adam.

What we have here is an admitted incident of sexual harassment. How these guys have escaped with their jobs is certainly foreign to the kind of environments I work in. It seems alien to the anything beyond Victorian times frankly.

You might think it's all jolly-japes, but you've never been a young woman being harassed in a hotel room by three large rugby players. This woman is no longer in employment because of the emotional trauma of the incident and the way that England management have attempted to sweep it under the carpet. It's not for you to judge her reaction. And frankly it does little to improve England's reputation which is already tarnished from previous tours to NZ. I'd expect you to apologise for accusing her of being a "money grubbing b*tch" which is just not called for.

It's sad that incidents such as this are hi-jacked and used in a point-scoring exercise by a poster with an agenda against a certain country.

Sad, but not unexpected.

Ah, the next defense...

Why don't you guys just put your hands up and say England screwed up, it's unacceptable and embarrassing?

Instead you are pretending that you are being ^persecuted^ by:

* a young female hotel employee
* the world's media
* posters on an internet forum

Pretty sad list of bully's to feel aggrieved by isn't it?

Let me tell you something, you've dodged a bullet already by getting away scott-free with blatant cheating in the ball-switching incident. You're not persecuted at all - in fact you're getting preferential treatment.

This post seems to insinuate that the world cup is being "ruined" by people pointing out England's misdemeanors, rather than that England are letting themselves down by behaving like children.

Sorry GG - I forgot that you were the be-all-and-end-all authority on this subject. All you're giving is your take on events, and I'm giving mine. We're not in the law courts here:

You're basically implying that the incident was of a heinously serious nature, which is somewhat contradicted by the fact that no criminal accusations have been made and, in spite of the spotlight being turned and the media storm blowing a gale, the appropriate punishment was seen to be a reprimand. Some would see your moralising chat as an attempt to discredit the character of the players in question. So you see, TheGreyGhost, you are no better than me, so kindly give the self-righteousness and demands for apologies a rest!

Also GreyGhost, I think your blind hatred of England has caused you to fundamentally misinterpret what this post is about. What I am actually sick and tired of - and I thought this was clear - is the English media's coverage of the world cup and the endless focus on these so called scandals at the expense of comment and analysis on the rugby itself. I think that, on the whole, they have been overblown and column inches in the 'sport' section have been eaten up by boring moralising about Tinds mystery blond, bungee jumping etc. etc. etc., robbing the fans of what they want which is something to get their mouth watering in respect of the fascinating tournament that is unfolding.

...you've clearly come with an agenda and latched onto something you see as a sleight, that was not meant in that way.

I'm not losing any sleep over it. It's nothing more than what you get if you throw a group of immature and arrogant players into the same pan as the British press.

Most of the guilty contingent has shown no grace whatsoever and still deserve to be compelled to own up by discipline, RWC or not.

Exactly Knowsit. Well said.

Adam, you can blame the media all you like. But until the England players grow up and behave like adults, (as the members of other quarterfinal teams have done), then they deserve to be scrutinised and called to account by the media.

No one here knows the context of the situation, or the reaction of the woman in question at the time.

We're talking about one player in a squad of 30 here, who made the comment (The Hask). Can we stop grouping the whole team as responsible because that is also very childish. Cheers.

Fact is that three players were involved at the time, not one. Don't try to (again) minimise the situation.

The rest of the team have stood by their men, so it does call into question the ethics of the entire squad. As I've said, any credible international organisation would immediately fire employees for such a transgression. Especially as it was committed while representing the organisation, and not in their free time (which would have been bad enough). Make no mistake they have brought all of the England team, and the country, as it's representatives into shame.

Best recant that comment EnglishReign - by implication we're both going down in GG's moral crusade....only GG, Richie McCaw and Cliff Richard will survive

And Gloria Gaynor

TheGreyGhost wrote:Fact is that three players were involved at the time, not one. Don't try to (again) minimise the situation.

The rest of the team have stood by their men, so it does call into question the ethics of the entire squad. As I've said, any credible international organisation would immediately fire employees for such a transgression. Especially as it was committed while representing the organisation, and not in their free time (which would have been bad enough). Make no mistake they have brought all of the England team, and the country, as it's representatives into shame.

But you don't know what happened, do you work for The Sun?

And the Pips. Don't forget the Pips...

I'm glad somebody else is showing their age

Cymro,
Me Da used love em. I still have all the 78's he left me. Classic wax.

Eh? Wasn't it Gladys Knight who was with the Pips? Or am I missing something?