Japan Open, latest.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2011/10/40/Tokyo-Friday-Nadal-Faces-Fish-In-SFs.aspx


Nadal will face Fish tomorrow and Murray will take on Ferrer in the two semi finals of the Japan open.

Ferrer has never beaten Murray on the Hard Stuff and Nadal is 2-1 up on Fish, except Mardy won their last outing on HC at Cinicinnati, so it looks to be two interesting matchups on Saturday, if Ferrer can put pressure on Andy's service game.

What's a tennis season coming to when I look forward to seeing a player like Fish tomorrow

Beggars can't be choosers....lol

Whats even sadder I suppose is that the semi is made up of players in the top 10 !

Now what does that say about the current crop of inbetweeners ?

Jubbahey wrote:Beggars can't be choosers....lol

Fishy has been a nice surprise recently, actually; started playing all court, loosened up, not a pure baseline diagonalist any more...

Yes, he has opened up a lot and his results have shown it was a good move.

He kinda came out of the woodwork early this year, once a bit of a walkover and now, he can beat some of the best players if and when he plays to his strengths.

Jubbahey wrote:Yes, he has opened up a lot and his results have shown it was a good move.

He kinda came out of the woodwork early this year, once a bit of a walkover and now, he can beat some of the best players if and when he plays to his strengths.

I hope he can play his best game tomorrow. I think he's cracked the belief card....at last! Doesn't confidence make all l the difference....

Can't see Murray losing to Ferrer, his game matches up too well on HC, and he'll get a look at too many return games (Ferrer's serve not being his strong point) unless Ferrer serves out of his skin. Murray's first serve has had some real pop on it this week, so if he can keep a decent percetage there I think he'll be fine.

Fish-Nadal could be tough to call. Nadal looked a little below par today by all accounts (though Giraldo played well) and Fish is displaying some excellent form recently, plus beat Nadal in Cinci. However I still expect Nadal to pull through in two tight sets or maybe three.

Don't know what the fuss is about the level of the tournament. Four of the world top ten, including three of the top 5 in the semis, not bad for a 500 tournie (esp. when you compare it to the other 500 going on at the same time)...

Apparently Nadal won 9 of the last 10 games. So Fish must have been 5/3 up in the first set.

From the little I saw, I think Murray will win tomorrow.

Tenez wrote:Apparently Nadal won 9 of the last 10 games. So Fish must have been 5/3 up in the first set.

From the little I saw, I think Murray will win tomorrow.

The dilemma is now, was Nadal "lucky" or was he playing "aggressively" with his forehand in those last 10 games.... ?

No, it was on serve until Nadal broke at 5-5.

lydian wrote:No, it was on serve until Nadal broke at 5-5.

Don't let the truth get in the way of Tenez's Nadal bashing. You should know he's insinuating Nadal beat a world class athlete because he was dead on his feet after 8 games.

Yeah I've seen Tenez's 'form' for years now. It goes something like...all these top class athletes are dust after a couple of 20 stroke ralleys with Nadal...they have all the talent...he just has legs and lungs. Once you know 'his story' you can see those underlying points made in most of the posts/threads he makes on here. He even talks about slower conditions being the bane of Federer's life on tour (he even said on the other thread "Another supreme talent being penalised by the slow conditions"), yet Federer loved playing at the slowest clay court of them - Hamburg - where he's won the title 4 times, and of course was brought up on clay. Hmmm...

The real fly in Tenez's ointment is that he never could quite explain how Federer went toe to toe with Nadal on clay for over 5 hours at Rome 2006 in the summer heat only losing in the final set tiebreak given that he's supposed to be such a fragile, high-octane talent who like a candle burns very brightly but not for so long againsr Nadal. The facts dont support Federer is fitness-fragile and isnt adept in slow conditions.

Fish... losing to this boring playa...

Oh dear!! early morning I make a very tiny supposition and the posters I exposed for years for lack off substancial knowledge and reasoning jump on my throat cause for once they can prove me wrong. Sad but laughable at the same time.

Regarding Lydian's second paragraph, I'll have the pleasure to answer and expose him again as an average observer of the game with little understanding of why 2 players with quite different power and stamina can both sustain a close 5 setter.

Your simplistic and dubious logic would like us to believe that 2 players playing against each other for 5 sets are of similar fitness. That's absurd!

Rome 2006 was at a time when Nadal's shots fell relatively short compared to his today's game. That allowed Federer to stand close to his baseline and send Nadal in all corners using his superior timing therefore, playing a more more economical game which I believe he is been very famous for for the last 10 years. Nadal on the other hand had to stand way further back his baseline and needed (still does btw) to compensate the lack of pace from the ball by adding his own power onto every shot. Nadal's gruelling game requiring lots of energy (can people deny that?) however hardly makes mistakes cause his game is not base on taking risks but teasing the opponent by giving him 2 options: "take a big risk or keep on rallying with me until you get out of breath...cause I can go on forever".

But yeah, in 2011 some still deny to acknowledge the basic tactic that Nadal and toni have adopted to win 10 slams. They woudl like to see an amazing talent in someone they idolise essentially because that player taught the arrogant Federer a few lessons.

I am still waiting to see an explanation on why a special talent is needed to play with bigger margins than everybody else!

The reason Federer lost in Rome 2006 was tragically because he prioritised weak tournaments back then, meaning he wasn't in tip top condition to face a Nadal who was truly great back then. (Before he sold his soul to try and win the 3 grand shams).

Federer has since learnt his lesson and whilst almost everything pre 2009 will be forgotten about the man, his epic Roland Garros victory and his win over Djokovic this year will highlight the man is a great. He has a long way to go to beat Nadal though.... that said if Nadal continues to taint his record by trying to win lame tournaments like Tokyo then maybe Federer will outstrip him after.

Did anyone watch Beijing semis between Berdych and Tsonga? Unbelievable hitting from Berdych - blew Tsonga away. Reminiscent (and may be even better hitting) than Del Potro hitting in 2009. Do watch out for Berdych in Shanghai!!

Do watch the videos of this match - Berdych has improved so much on his backhand wing...

Didnt see Berdych play but there's never been any doubt he's one of the biggest hitters on tour - if he can ever string together his form and mental strength across a season he would be a threat at any major.

Tenez, nice try at reinventing the match but I remember watching the match at the time and have rewatched highlights recently. Did you actually watch that match per chance? I suggest you watch it before commenting. It was a fantastic match, both guys played attacking tennis, of course Federer has a different style and approaches the net more but Nadal also played an attacking match. Nadal was up at the baseline for long periods of the match driving shots into the corners as well as Federer. The fact that Nadal could hold off Federer who was in sublime form over the course of the match in itself speaks to the talent Nadal also has - but you refuse to see that. Some of the winners, defensive and transitional shots he played (and Federer too) were out of this world - trust me, they take sheer talent to play. You lack of pace from the ball but I can assure Federer hit many heavy shots that day - again, watch the match!

BUT the point is that they played hammer and tongs for over 5 hours and Federer did not wilt one iota. You simply cant play like that for over 5 hours against Nadal (who ran Federer left and right over many long ralleys) and still look quite fresh in the 5th set tiebreak without being supremely fit.

Regarding Nadal's talent at playing tennis, its a no brainer to even argue with you for a player that's been in the top 2 for 6.5 and counting years, won >40 titles, 19 Masters, 10 slams (and career slam), Olympic singles Gold, Davis Cup, etc....only a fool would deny that all Nadal's sizeable achievements takes a supreme and special talent. But as always Tenez knows better! Nadal is already regarded as one of the greatest players of all time (e.g. McEnroe has him in the top 4 already) no matter how you try to denigrate his talent level on this forum...

On achievements alone, I agree with you Lydian that Nadal would rank in top 4-6 of all time, but like Federer he has also had the luxury of playing against weak fields in the slams. Even Djokovic is not something THAT special and he manages to wipe the floor with Nadal in 6 straight finals. I honestly don't think Nadal would win more than 6/7 slams if he were in a properly decent era, Federer would not have been in double figures either had he played against a stronger era, but it is what it is!

Whether the field was weak or not, Nadal has had to beat Federer in many of those slams across all surfaces. For others to propose Nadal isnt a supreme talent whether he was able to win either 6-7 or 10+ slams seems churlish to me.

Fedex_the_best wrote:Did anyone watch Beijing semis between Berdych and Tsonga? Unbelievable hitting from Berdych - blew Tsonga away. Reminiscent (and may be even better hitting) than Del Potro hitting in 2009. Do watch out for Berdych in Shanghai!!

Do watch the videos of this match - Berdych has improved so much on his backhand wing...

Berdych was always a very good player with great shots and awesome serve, played great mostly when he was not the favorite. I think he doesn't like holding the tag of a top player with the load of expectation to win. He himself has accepted it. He plays rather freely when he is the underdog. But the thing is if he plays better, he will move up the rankings.. and then he becomes the victim of his own hard earned success and starts losing. This is kind of weird, but this is how it is with Berdych. I just hope he wins Beijing tomorrow, its very very extremely high time he won himself a tournament. The last won came back in.. well I forgot.. its so long. Can someone help.

I don;t denigrate the player, I denigrate his talent. It's different. He is, record wise, in the top 4...sure, it's a no brainer though one may argue that he won his slams in an era where all courts play like the FO, but I don;t even want to go there. Difficult to argue against 10 GS. But I am talking about Nadal's talent! And you have failed again to explain it! You keep talking about his record but that's not a proof of talent. I am not saying Nadal is poor physically, he is a mental midget, or any other non-sense some wums like to go on about about Murray or else....I am saying clearly how Nadal wins...essentially thanks to his physique. What's wrong with that? Do I want to make Davydenko a physical beast when he beats Nadal? No! I know Nikolay's physique is not his forte when facing Nadal. Djoko is also exposing Nadal's one dimensional game now that he can stay with him. There is nothing deragoratory saying that...unless you are a fan who simply wants to see only great things about your player.

Tenez wrote:Oh dear!! early morning I make a very tiny supposition and the posters I exposed for years for lack off substancial knowledge and reasoning jump on my throat cause for once they can prove me wrong. Sad but laughable at the same time.

Regarding Lydian's second paragraph, I'll have the pleasure to answer and expose him again as an average observer of the game with little understanding of why 2 players with quite different power and stamina can both sustain a close 5 setter.

Your simplistic and dubious logic would like us to believe that 2 players playing against each other for 5 sets are of similar fitness. That's absurd!

Rome 2006 was at a time when Nadal's shots fell relatively short compared to his today's game. That allowed Federer to stand close to his baseline and send Nadal in all corners using his superior timing therefore, playing a more more economical game which I believe he is been very famous for for the last 10 years. Nadal on the other hand had to stand way further back his baseline and needed (still does btw) to compensate the lack of pace from the ball by adding his own power onto every shot. Nadal's gruelling game requiring lots of energy (can people deny that?) however hardly makes mistakes cause his game is not base on taking risks but teasing the opponent by giving him 2 options: "take a big risk or keep on rallying with me until you get out of breath...cause I can go on forever".

But yeah, in 2011 some still deny to acknowledge the basic tactic that Nadal and toni have adopted to win 10 slams. They woudl like to see an amazing talent in someone they idolise essentially because that player taught the arrogant Federer a few lessons.

I am still waiting to see an explanation on why a special talent is needed to play with bigger margins than everybody else!

The disturbing thing is you actually believe some of the things you spout. Nice, but ultimately futile, attempt to rewrite history.

Nadal spent 5 hours chasing the ball from side to side several meters behind the baseline while Fed was perched on a sofa near the net switching his rival from side to side like a computer game character.

You really are a joker.

mthierry wrote:The disturbing thing is you actually believe some of the things you spout. Nice, but ultimately futile, attempt to rewrite history.

Nadal spent 5 hours chasing the ball from side to side several meters behind the baseline while Fed was perched on a sofa near the net switching his rival from side to side like a computer game character.

You really are a joker.

Chelsea? Manu? Arsenal? let's talk about football.

Tenez wrote:Djoko is also exposing Nadal's one dimensional game now that he can stay with him. There is nothing deragoratory saying that...unless you are a fan who simply wants to see only great things about your player.

Its the fact that its all you bang on about Tenez. We get it, you think Nadal only wins because of physique not talent, change the record mate.

Some don't obviously.

No, some dont agree with you. But it doesnt mean you have to hijack threads to put your opinions across. This is a thread about the Japan open so please keep it on topic instead of another Nadal bashing mission.

Then read the thread again and check who started to bring the subject first!

I'm not interested in who started it, I'm here so that it stops before going any further. Keep on topic.

Y I Man wrote:I'm not interested in who started it, I'm here so that it stops before going any further. Keep on topic.

Well sorry but you singled me out there in your first post when clearly Lydian was teh one starting it.

Lydian started nothing- you did with the pointless and false comment about Nadal clawing back a deficit to win most of the last games.
Anyone who knows you knows what you were insinuating.

And before discussing football with me, you might want to get a clue about your favourite sport.

I agree with YI Man and what mthierry is also alluding to...many of us are simply sick to the back teeth of hearing you either directly or indirectly prattle on about Nadal's physique and lack of talent all the time. We know what happened to you on 606 and Centre Court so dont try to come across as all innocent on here. I'll wager you know exactly how your incessant anti-Nadal posts wind up even knowledgeable neutral posters up (e.g. laverfan) but you dont desist from doing it do you? Just give it a rest Tenez, let the forum breathe.

Back on topic, personally I think Murray will win in Tokyo tomorrow with the streak he's on at the moment, and Nadal hasnt won a HC title all year. Murray has to be fave despite Nadal being 4-0 this year. Can see Federer losing his #3 spot soon, not that that makes much difference in reality.

I also think Murray would win tomorrow if he can keep it together mentally and serve well. Despite the recent owning by Nadal, I still believe Murray is the better hard-courter.

His serve seems on good form at the moment, and his movement is good too, looks pretty fresh to me despite the win in Thailand. Agree, ok its 13-4 to Nadal overall but on HC its only 6-4 and more recently its 2-2 in 2010/11. Should be a good one but I'll have to get up early tomorrow to see it!

Y I Man wrote:

Tenez wrote:Djoko is also exposing Nadal's one dimensional game now that he can stay with him. There is nothing deragoratory saying that...unless you are a fan who simply wants to see only great things about your player.

Its the fact that its all you bang on about Tenez. We get it, you think Nadal only wins because of physique not talent, change the record mate.

Anyone who truly believes this irrational nonsense deserves pity not contempt.

Anyone who incessantly spouts this nonsense but really doesn't believe it deserves pity and contempt.

Rafa v Andy is currently 6-3 2-6

Andy 2-0 up in the 3rd set

Murray right in the zone today, after a laboured start. Wish he could play like this all the time, his tennis from R2 has been superb this week.

Andy 4-0 up in the 3rd now

Andy on the verge of sealing back-to-back tournament wins (No.20 title win of his career).

Nadal has gone completely off the boil and Murray has been ruthless.

bagelled and lost nearly 8 or 9 points in a row. Well done Muray. he too shouldnt lose anymore to Nadal from here onwards.

that was absolutely sublime tennis from Murray. Superb returning throughout, and fantastic striking of the ball from the back, that backhand back on song. He got the balance just right, didn't try too hard to be aggressive but was on top in nearly all the rallies.

20 titles

Congratulations to Andy Murray in winning his 20th ATP title beating Rafael Nadal 3-6 6-2 6-0. It gives him back-to-back tournament wins and brings him so close to Federer in the rankings that he can almost see the hairs up his nostrils.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Andy on the verge of sealing back-to-back tournament wins (No.20 title win of his career).

Will be interesting to see whether Murray can kick on from here. After that frankly dire match against Anderson in Canada, he's had 3 titles and a semi at a Slam. If he can get to the end of the season continuing this form, it could give him a good springboard into 2012.

It's getting embarassing for Nadal but Murray knows too well that this a different Nadal than the one he meets in slams. In slams Nadal doesn't tire after a set and his weight of shots are heavier.

Just compare the score today with the 3 other matches they played in slams this year...in particular with the last one played just 4 weeks ago. Has Murray improved so much?

It's been like that for years. Slam Nadal is a different animal than smaller-tourney Nadal, you know the one who tires v Garcia-Lopez in a 3 setter.

However this should boost Murray's confidence for the future cause I think he can beat slam Nadal too and will in the future.

What is that guy not on?

Tenez wrote:It's getting embarassing for Nadal but Murray knows too well that this a different Nadal than the one he meets in slams. In slams Nadal doesn't tire after a set and his weight of shots are heavier.

Just compare the score today with the 3 other matches they played in slams this year...in particular with the last one played just 4 weeks ago. Has Murray improved so much?

It's been like that for years. Slam Nadal is a different animal than smaller-tourney Nadal, you know the one who tires v Garcia-Lopez in a 3 setter.

However this should boost Murray's confidence for the future cause I think he can beat slam Nadal too and will in the future.

What exactly is getting embarassing for Nadal? That he lost a 3-setter final of a small tourney to the world no. 4 on hardcourt. Yeah, what a disgrace. I'm sure Murray would have lost to anyone else today.

You may want to know this smaller tourney failure that is holds a record number of master series titles and reached several finals since the O2 last year in the 3 set tourneys.

I don't even know the point of your post other than random, inane ramblings in keeping up with your unhealthy Nadal obsession.

That he got 4 points in a set?

bogbrush wrote:That he got 4 points in a set?

And then? An off day which can happen to anyone- including Fed. I'm sure he's losing a lot of sleep over it in light of his mediocre achievements in the game.

I don't expect you to see reason though.

I hope someone puts the whole match on youtube, I've been slagging Murray's game off a lot of late and this result is quite something. I'd like to see exactly how it all unfolded.