London games are here to stay?

NFL owners voted to guarantee at least one NFL game in the UK every season through 2016.

Also, every team is allowed to volunteer to have a 'home' game hosted over here.

Thoughts?

confused by "Also, every team is allowed to volunteer to have a 'home' game hosted over here."

why would a team not be allowed to volunteer?

Anyway, good news for those in the UK. Games have been great and long may it continue

crazy_dave23 wrote:confused by "Also, every team is allowed to volunteer to have a 'home' game hosted over here."

why would a team not be allowed to volunteer?

Anyway, good news for those in the UK. Games have been great and long may it continue

yer that is kinda confusing id imagine that id imagine that most teams are already volunteering. It looks like quite a good financial opportunity

What the league are saying is that they will decide who goes to London, but if a team has a desire to want to play over here then they can volunteer.
A few years ago the league struggled to get support for the international series from players/coaches (only the owners saw the financial upside), now I think the league are being approached by franchises and volunteering to travel, every team who has given up a home game has seen increase in members/merchandise sales from UK so they're starting to recognise the benefits

sorry, I didn't really understand that point either until i read it on the official nfl website. it looks like, a team is allowed to volunteer to play one game every year here. as in, "We, the Dallas Knights, volunteer to play one home game in London every season from 2012 to 2016" - the inference being that team would then move there permanently afterward if they prove popular enough

There is a strong possibility that there could be two games at Wembley by 2014.

There is also a possibility on extending the regular season to 18 games.

NFL MIKE wrote:There is a strong possibility that there could be two games at Wembley by 2014.

There is also a possibility on extending the regular season to 18 games.

i read that the 2 London games was an option, but i thought the 18 game season was pretty much discarded in the new CBA

one thing i was wondering, can a team opt-out from playing?
i guess they can choose whether to be a home team or not, but have they any choice as the away team?

I didn't bother with the entire 150 pages CBA but I remember the expansion to 18 games was binned for a fixed period, it may well have been along the lines of no expansion before 2014.
Anyone know exactly ?

yeh, i remember what it is: until a particular year, I believe 2014, it's fixed at 4 preseason games and 16 regular season games - with players getting paid for 20 games.

after then, the preseason is definitely being reduced to 2 games. players then have the choice, they can choose to either increase the regular season to 18 games, meaning players continue to get paid for 20 games, or keep the regular season to 16 games, meaning the players will have a decreased revenue for playing 18 games total (16 regular + 2 preseason).

so basically, the owners are saying, "from 2014, you can either accept an 18 game regular season, or take a pay cut".

pretty sneaky.

in other wembley news - goo goo dolls doing the pre-game entertainment this year

I've said it before back when we were using the old gaff but I'd like to see, rather than two games at Wembley, is for them to mix it up a wee bit. I'd like it for other UK cities to get a taste of the NFL experience, Old T'ford in Manchester, Millenium stadium in Cardiff and it'd be great if it came to Murrayfield. College teams have been to Ireland before, with their passionate supporters and charged atmospheres it'd be great to see an NCAA game here too.

Gaelic, Notre Dame are coming to Lansdowne next year I think.

I agree Gaelic, we all know the problems the pitch has created for the NFL game at Wembley and indeed the problems the game itself creates for future events.
The attraction for Wembley is that 90k people can get to see the game, Murrayfield and Millennium Stadium boast much lower capacities, Old Trafford is unrealistic (not only because of the Glazer ties I guess) but because the game falls during the EPL season and I remember Wembley officials saying they needed 3 weeks either side of the game to set up and clear away.
Croke Park is the obvious other runner (despite not being in UK before I'm bombarded), but if it were to move outside Wembley there may be better options in Europe where the sport also has a big following....

GurTPL wrote:sorry, I didn't really understand that point either until i read it on the official nfl website. it looks like, a team is allowed to volunteer to play one game every year here. as in, "We, the Dallas Knights, volunteer to play one home game in London every season from 2012 to 2016" - the inference being that team would then move there permanently afterward if they prove popular enough

Wow! That's a pretty huge move forward then. I've not read the article but are they really giving this idea of a London franchise some legs? I still struggle to see how it would work - just seems like there are a million logistical and financial hurdles in the way, plus you'd feel sorry for the fans of the team that have to watch as their team relocates across the Atlantic ocean! Wonder if any of the teams p'd off with their current cities would use this to gain a bit of leverage to a better deal/facility??

25 - I don't believe so.
As you say there are so many logistical problems it just cannot work, the league should say outright it's not something they are considering, even as a fan of the sport in the UK I can't see how it will work.
Anyone remember the demise of the Monarchs in NFL Europe and how after a year or so less than 10k turned out to watch ?
There are far better US options (LA, Vegas etc) if the league want to expand, the idea of a London/European based franchise is just non sensical - do they expect all those fans who are now Dolphin, Saints, Buccs and Niners fans to bin their memberships, burn their jerseys and change allegience to a new franchise ?
Can't work, won't work....

Grizzly wrote:do they expect all those fans who are now Dolphin, Saints, Buccs and Niners fans to bin their memberships, burn their jerseys and change allegience to a new franchise ?
Can't work, won't work....

Famous last words.

Yeah, looking out for that one Thomond. In hindsight I'd agree with you on OT Grizz but I'd say its still feasible to play at Murrayfield or the millenium if another game is at Wembley that season as well. The capacities of those stadiums aren't that small, along with the 90K for a Wembley game those stadiums with 67K and 70K fans offer a similar kind of scale to that of Candlestick, LP and Qwest/Century Link Field. Good shout on Croke Park, Grizz that'd be a great venue, with its popularity in Germany and Holland I think there ought to be games there also at some point.

A UK Franchise wouldn't be a good idea, not also because of the logistical reasons stated above but because the game cannot compete at that level with the UK's own sports which are far more strongly established. A better move, I think, would be for the NFL to open academies or training facilities to take advantage of the niche support AF has here to create homegrown talent and get more UK/Europeans in the NFL and to strengthen our local leagues.

I would love an NFC East showdown Cowboys v Giants or Skins or failing that I would be tempted to part with some money for a Steelers v Ravens

unfortunately I highly doubt divisional games will be making there way over here anytime soon so both the above would likely be off the agenda

I don't see a franchise in London as being a very good idea. They would have to build themselves a new stadium as they wouldn't be able to use Wembley for the whole season, which would mean they would be making a large commitment to the franchise yet it would probably only take a few years of the franchise being rubbish for the attendances to drop rapidly, I'm pretty sure most of the tickets sold would be to "away" fans anyway. One or two games a year is fine for me, think it would be a shame though if the same team returned each year.

Keep it as it is, or at the most 1 game at Wembely and a second game rotated between Murrayfield/Millenium/Croke/OT/Germany etc...

Don't think a London NFL franchise would sustain itself it the long run, i remember the Monarchs, great first season, disappeared a week later..

London franchise - difficulty is competing with other sport and leisure attractions in London. I personally would prefer a UK franchise based somewhere more accessible. A London franchise would also suffer as the travel and accommodation costs hit the non-London based fans and apathy sets in. I agree with Moot - move it round the UK. Problem is...

Capacity/revenue - the big draw for Wembley is the revenue. That's why the bigger teams have resisted the draw so far. Why travel across the ocean if you are going to lose revenue in the process. The home teams that have struggled with attendance or low capacity stadia are more inclined to travel than those that sell out 80K plus venues. The likes of the Skins, Patriots, Cowboys etc. may come for an away game now, but they are highly unlikely to give up a home game. Likewise Crazy's point about divisional games.

National game - as one involved for decades now, I have no shame in attempting to big up the national game. Youth, Junior, Senior and University kitted football may not be glamorous or as filled with athletes as the NFL, but they can be nonetheless exciting games. We need to generate interest in the UK leagues off the back of the Wembley games and develop from there. But its not easy. Just as football fans will happily pay to see their local EPL team, they won't pop along to the park to watch Sunday League, so NFL UK fans may likewise only want to watch the best.

even if that's true, about wanting to only see the best, I think that with the Wembley game raising the profile of the sport so much, there could be a lot more done to advertise Britbowl. Obviously it's still no where near as close in talent, but it's the best the UK has to offer (in theory), so I reckon interest in that has the potential to get bigger if it's played up more

The problem from a league financial perspective is that there is no money for fully advertising Britbowl. The coverage on Sky has helped no end, but the only other way to generate interest is the low cost marketing etc. teams are doing. BAFA doesn't have the funds to do something nationally. The NFL would probably consider working with BAFA etc. if they saw a benefit (they are after all a business) but right now we are the only ones who stand to gain.

skins4ever wrote:National game - as one involved for decades now, I have no shame in attempting to big up the national game. Youth, Junior, Senior and University kitted football may not be glamorous or as filled with athletes as the NFL, but they can be nonetheless exciting games. We need to generate interest in the UK leagues off the back of the Wembley games and develop from there. But its not easy. Just as football fans will happily pay to see their local EPL team, they won't pop along to the park to watch Sunday League, so NFL UK fans may likewise only want to watch the best.

Could the UK support an inter-scholastic multi-sport arrangement like the NCAA? Not necessarily like on Div 1-A with the 100,000-seat stadiums but on a smaller scale? Or would that require a Europe-wide set-up? (I can see it now: Edinburgh v. Paris-Sorbonne in the Haggis Bowl.)

WhiteCamry wrote:

skins4ever wrote:National game - as one involved for decades now, I have no shame in attempting to big up the national game. Youth, Junior, Senior and University kitted football may not be glamorous or as filled with athletes as the NFL, but they can be nonetheless exciting games. We need to generate interest in the UK leagues off the back of the Wembley games and develop from there. But its not easy. Just as football fans will happily pay to see their local EPL team, they won't pop along to the park to watch Sunday League, so NFL UK fans may likewise only want to watch the best.

Could the UK support an inter-scholastic multi-sport arrangement like the NCAA? Not necessarily like on Div 1-A with the 100,000-seat stadiums but on a smaller scale? Or would that require a Europe-wide set-up? (I can see it now: Edinburgh v. Paris-Sorbonne in the Haggis Bowl.)

If I'm not mistaken my university plays it's game on a park, I think a 100 seat stadium is unlikely to get filled for university games. I do know that the Challenge Trophy final was held at The John Charles Centre for Sport, which has a capacity of 4,000, I'm not sure what the attendance for that game was but from the pictures I've seen it doesn't look busy and the stadium apparently only got 100-200 fans when the Yorkshire Rams played there.

Yeah, no idea if an NFL franchise will work though you can bet the NFL has its bean counters working on it to see if it is sustainable.

I think they would do well to support local teams and university teams and try to foster interest at the grass roots by trying to set up youth leagues to get young kids involved. They could set up a program to encourage groups to subsidize those leagues to help out with equipment -- kids love the idea of putting on all the gear. See if interest grows. If it doesn't pan out, then no much lost.

On the UK inter-scholastic multi-sport thing, there is one that already exists, BUCS. But BUAFL (British Universities American Football League, for those unfamiliar with it) aren't affiliated with BUCS. Because the head of BUAFL is more interested in absolutely pointless activities like renaming the conferences to sound more NCAA-ish (my uni plays in the MAC - Midlands Athletic Conference) than actually doing something useful for the sport like getting it affiliated with BUCS.

He's also determined that rather than affiliate or promote every team should have an away strip by 2013. Craziness.

Anyway, mine and Gur's blog just posted some thoughts about the International Series here: http://pullinglinemen.blogspot.com/2011/10/international-series-to-stay-or-not-to.html

Toby/Gur, the game kicks off at 6 not 5.

Toby3695 wrote:He's also determined that rather than affiliate or promote every team should have an away strip by 2013. Craziness.

Anyway, mine and Gur's blog just posted some thoughts about the International Series here: http://pullinglinemen.blogspot.com/2011/10/international-series-to-stay-or-not-to.html

There are power crazed people in all organisations sadly.
This is where the NFL I feel should be 'directing' things, appointing groups of personnel to drive integration/continuity of processes through the various levels of football, grass roots right up to NFL.

"The league estimates it now has 11 million fans in Britain, including more than two million "avid" fans, a 32% increase in the past two years.

Since the London series began, the league says, Sunday TV viewership of NFL games has increased by 91% and the audience for the Super Bowl has grown by 74%." http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/american_football/15268512.stm

I saw those figures Derby and have to say that I don't buy it.
To say there are as many NFL fans in this country as there are EPL fans must be wrong - I remember the issues surrounding TV rights a couple of years back and Sky gave up Sunday night (late) games because their viewing figures were around 10k or less - what are the viewing figures at 9pm for example when NFL competes with X-Factor or whatever other dog###t talent programme is on ?
I don't doubt the Int series has done wonders for the fanbase but I don't see that at 11m (18% ish of the population)

Derbyblue wrote:"The league estimates it now has 11 million fans in Britain, including more than two million "avid" fans, a 32% increase in the past two years.

Since the London series began, the league says, Sunday TV viewership of NFL games has increased by 91% and the audience for the Super Bowl has grown by 74%." http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/american_football/15268512.stm

Exactly Grizz. Fibtastic stats there. The 11 million figure has probably come from the amount of people here exposed to the NFL as a result of the int series and TV coverage but vast majority aren't what you would call fans. I've heard before on other sites what sounds like a more accurate figure of just under the 1 million mark for the amount of AF fans here.

On the ideas for continued growth in the UK I did mention the NFL opening training facilities or academies to allow the UK to create a batch of strong homegrown players. If this was done in partnership with BAFA like a farm system similar to minor leagues in other US sports then the NFL could gain financially from this also. The major UK football programmes could become an affiliated part of NFL franchises allowing for further promotion of the league and players from local areas here that move on to the NFL could increase support a bit like how the Irish will support EPL teams with a history of signing Irish players.

well, one step in the right direction (potentially) is the NFL scout-led trials being held the day before the IS gamd. of course, who knows how seriously that's going to be taken, or whether it's just a gimmick by the NFL to raise interest - but if it is genuine scouting for UK talent, definitely a step in the right direction

I think the main reasons for staying at Wembley are the Heathrow and Gatwick airports and the Eurostar train link to continental Europe.

I could only see a permanent London franchise if the NFL expanded to perhaps 36 teams.

It was just a small thing, but I watched that vid back on the BBC about that 17-year old player for the Cornish Sharks who signed to play college ball at a smaller school in the States. The NFL scouting for talent could be a gimmick, but you never know -- if they found someone of incredible talent who was raw, I could see them bringing over to the States to put them through an intensive training scheme to let them compete at a future training camp. Major League Baseball held a talent contest in India a couple years ago to see if they could find local cricket talent who could be taught to pitch. They found a couple local lads who could throw 100 mph fastballs and brought them over to coach them up and try them out on minor league teams. Don't know how that has turned out though there are so many levels to the minor league farm system they could be there awhile.

Derbyblue wrote:"The league estimates it now has 11 million fans in Britain, including more than two million "avid" fans, a 32% increase in the past two years.

Since the London series began, the league says, Sunday TV viewership of NFL games has increased by 91% and the audience for the Super Bowl has grown by 74%." http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/american_football/15268512.stm

Agree that that sounds excessive... especially from a league which for various reasons can't sell out its only NFL game of the year.
I've personally never been a fan of a UK franchise as I fear it would fall flat on its face. I'm a pretty avid fan, live 50 mins from London by train (albeit the wrong side) and I'm not sure I could reasonably make a full slate of games ignoring the monetary aspect.

On other London related news...
anyone going to the Commissioner Q&A in London next weekend as I am? Feel free to nominate questions that I can try and ask if I think there better than my one!

I have to say the figures I quoted do seem very optimistic and you can say viewership has grown by 91% but how much of that is actually getting new fans because of the International Series game? I myself would be in that "91%" increase that have started watching the Sunday games since the game has been held at Wembley but that game had nothing to do with me being bored of a terrible Premier League game on Sky Sports 1 and stumbling across American Football on Sky Sports 2.

Mangler- I remember reading about that too, just attempted to search for him on the BBC and found this guy too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/american_football/14730983.stm
This is the guy I was originally looking for though: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-12878425

Yeah, I had't seen the first link -- the 2nd link is the lad I saw a video of. Looks like the Cornish Sharks are cornering the market on U.S. college caliber players.

Very impressed that a guy who has been playing in our youth leagues is supposedly being considered such a big prospect, will be interesting to see if he can develop well enough to reach the NFL. It seems a shame to me that I found out about it by accident, personally I think that sort of thing is worth a mention on Sky (maybe they did mention it and I wasn't paying attention).

Boise State have an exceptional program. They don't have a tough schedule like SEC schools week in and week out, but when they get the chance to play the big boys, they can go toe to toe with them as evidenced by their defeat of Georgia 35-21 (currently 4-2 overall/3-1 in the SEC) at the start of the year.

Loving how the BBC consider the blue turf to be the second most important thing you need to know about Boise State

GurTPL wrote:Loving how the BBC consider the blue turf to be the second most important thing you need to know about Boise State

It is quite a funky feature, so i'm not surprised they mention it... the US press do bang on about it giving them an unfair advantage