Dean Richards

If Johnson goes as England coach how about Dean Richards?

He's banned until next summer isn't he?

Would the RU really consider appointing him straight to the big job after bloodgate...I doubt it. He'd have to repair his reputation first wouldn't he?

IMO it would be a large gamble to appoint someone who hasn't coached in 3 years. The game has moved on - lets see Richards show he is still up to speed.

Conor O'Shea is my bet.

I would take him no problems....

Served his ban...great coach / manager

All the nations would complain that Englands condoning cheating etc and hate us...oh they do already so who cares....

Yep, wonder if he would have done the cheating thing Gatland was contemplating last weekend.

Bilton...are you seriously telling me that it doesnt go on in rugby....

Brian Moor is a big fan of him coming in to the England structore somewhere.

TBH i'd like to see him coach a club side first for a couple of seasons and then maybe brought in as forwards coach circa 2014.

Connor O'Shea is staying at Quins, he was already sounded out for another role with the RFU but wasn't interested, and looking at that shambles I don't blame him.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Bilton...are you seriously telling me that it doesnt go on in rugby....

I don't know, I was actually being tongue in cheeck there. Who knows?

yappysnap wrote:
Connor O'Shea is staying at Quins, he was already sounded out for another role with the RFU but wasn't interested, and looking at that shambles I don't blame him.

It was the performance director job though wasn't it? Johnson's job is much more similar to his current role at Quins, and he did say he thought about applying for the RFU job (and kept Mark Evans in the loop).

I'd not want to lose him but with the right coaches under him it could work.

For what it's worth, in a year's time I wouldn't be too unhappy to see:

Team Manager: Conor O'Shea
Attack Coach: Mike Catt (I've heard this suggested and have no better ideas)
Defense Coach: Shaun Edwards
Forwards Coach: Dean Richards
Scrum Coach: Graham Rowntree

One problem with that may be that there are simply too many natural head coach types in there.

Richards will need to climb the greasy pole of club rugby again to be a politically acceptable choice for England in future. He's a great coach though, no question.

I know dude, but i do think it goes on alot...espcecially with the forwards....its just Richards was caught.

I'd love to be proved wrong...but i dont think i ever will be...

The 2008/9 Guiness Premiership season was blighted by uncontested scrums. Accusations of teams cheating by withdrawing "injured" players when they were being beaten in the scrums abounded. Pretty much every weekend saw a game reduced to uncontested scrums.

The change in regulations whereby teams had a complete front row on the bench - and if they then forced uncontested scrums by removing a player they would have to play with just 14 men - has effectively eradicated uncontested scrums.

My conclusion is that it is no longer in a teams interest to cheat and remove a player forcing uncontested scrums.

red_stag wrote:IMO it would be a large gamble to appoint someone who hasn't coached in 3 years.

Less of a gamble than appointing someone who's never coached before in his life...

Thats true actually Luckless.

Richards will probably beg to be England coach but they'll end up, after a long a protracted public bun fight and with several highly regarded coaches being sent to the wrong interview room, appointing Marc Lievremont (backs) and Peter De Villiers (forwards).

Sir Fred Goodwin will become chairman of the RFU, Rob Andrew will be contracted for life to do whatever job he wants to do provided there's no actual job description or accountability, and Lievremont and De Villiers will form the elite coaching team. England will continue to do just enough to keep their new coaches from getting fired, but never enough to justify their cash or playing resources. Over the next couple of years the captaincy will be passed through three players: Wilkinson, Cueto and then finally shared between the returning Steve Borthwick and Louis Deacon.

Meanwhile, Dean Richards will be appointed to succeed Declan Kidney as Ireland coach, coaching Ireland to back to back grand slams and a WC semi-final.

Richards, in 2015, will be quoted as saying: "I rang Rob Andrew and begged him to consider my application. I told him about all the stuff I'd won both as a player and a manager, and the several successful club outfits I've coached. Unfortunately he told me that he wanted a coaching team with international experience, and that he had two excellent men waiting in the wings. Thinking he was talking about maybe Nick Mallett or Jake White, I accepted that perhaps dear old Rob was onto something".

funnyExiledScot wrote:Richards will probably beg to be England coach but they'll end up, after a long a protracted public bun fight and with several highly regarded coaches being sent to the wrong interview room, appointing Marc Lievremont (backs) and Peter De Villiers (forwards).

Sir Fred Goodwin will become chairman of the RFU, Rob Andrew will be contracted for life to do whatever job he wants to do provided there's no actual job description or accountability, and Lievremont and De Villiers will form the elite coaching team. England will continue to do just enough to keep their new coaches from getting fired, but never enough to justify their cash or playing resources. Over the next couple of years the captaincy will be passed through three players: Wilkinson, Cueto and then finally shared between the returning Steve Borthwick and Louis Deacon.

Meanwhile, Dean Richards will be appointed to succeed Declan Kidney as Ireland coach, coaching Ireland to back to back grand slams and a WC semi-final.

Richards, in 2015, will be quoted as saying: "I rang Rob Andrew and begged him to consider my application. I told him about all the stuff I'd won both as a player and a manager, and the several successful club outfits I've coached. Unfortunately he told me that he wanted a coaching team with international experience, and that he had two excellent men waiting in the wings. Thinking he was talking about maybe Nick Mallett or Jake White, I accepted that perhaps dear old Rob was onto something".

Sadly this may be near the truth! I think Deano would be a great national coach but theres no way the current RFU would employ him sadly.

If Hartley (for example) can come back from a gouging ban to play regularly for England then I don't see why Richards shouldn't become our head coach after his ban for (IMO) a less serious and more widespread (albeit less punished) offence.

Unfortunately the RFU will probably want to keep controversy out of it after the world cup, and not consider him. Wherever Richards goes he's bound to be a success, and everyone who was afraid of taking him on will be sat there kicking themselves.

Funnyexiledscot - there's probably an unfortunate amount of truth to that, particularly the bit about the captaincy being passed around like that.

I'd love to see him as Manager or Performance Director (he should have been appointed in 2008), but his ban lasts until next Autumn and the RFU clarified the limits of his ban when he helped Worcester last year:

"He is not permitted to have anything to do with coaching or being a director of a club in any capacity and he may not act as a consultant to any club in terms of coaching or other rugby matters."

GeordieFalcon wrote:I would take him no problems....

Served his ban...great coach / manager

All the nations would complain that Englands condoning cheating etc and hate us...oh they do already so who cares....

That's the spirit!

George Carlin wrote:Richards will need to climb the greasy pole of club rugby again to be a politically acceptable choice for England in future. He's a great coach though, no question.

Not sure of that, lets face it they hardly asked MJ to prove his credentials

There is absolutely no chance at-all that Richards will be considered for the England job (probably ever, but certainly not now). He was convicted of a very serious offence, you don't let him walk into the highest profile post in world rugby.

Actually it will be interesting to see whether any English side offers him a job. I suspect he may have to go abroad initially.

O'Shea has never been formally offered a senior job in the England set up, and if he were I'd expect him to take it. I think he'd be a pretty smart appointment (although it would be bad news for Quins), but do the RFU have the ability to make such an appointment?

DaveM wrote:Actually it will be interesting to see whether any English side offers him a job. I suspect he may have to go abroad initially.

Worcester would definitely take him on in some capacity, Duckworth said as much last year.

DaveM wrote:There is absolutely no chance at-all that Richards will be considered for the England job (probably ever, but certainly not now). He was convicted of a very serious offence, you don't let him walk into the highest profile post in world rugby.

Don't think anyone was suggesting he be appointed to coach the All Blacks?

funnyExiledScot wrote:Rob Andrew will be contracted for life to do whatever job he wants to do provided there's no actual job description or accountability

Now there's an appointment I have NEVER understood. How on earth could they have considered the man who almost single handedly guided Newcastle to the bottom of the premiership and then moved on whilst they were fighting for their survival and give him one of the top jobs in the RFU.

Deano got caught with his fingers in the cookie jar and was rightly banned. But don't ever let that ban overshadow his abilities and talents as coach.

He took Tigers to 4 back to back league titles and 2 back to back HC titles (for this he is still holds semi god-like status as Welford Rd) and did a superb job at Quinns.

Once he has served his time on the bench he should be welcomed back.

hawalsh wrote:

DaveM wrote:Actually it will be interesting to see whether any English side offers him a job. I suspect he may have to go abroad initially.

Worcester would definitely take him on in some capacity, Duckworth said as much last year.

http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/story/156263.html

funnyExiledScot wrote:

DaveM wrote:There is absolutely no chance at-all that Richards will be considered for the England job (probably ever, but certainly not now). He was convicted of a very serious offence, you don't let him walk into the highest profile post in world rugby.

Don't think anyone was suggesting he be appointed to coach the All Blacks?

Surely Gavin Hensons agent?

I read somewhere that hes most likely going to Worcester.

If the interin coaches do well in the 6 Nations will the RFU really consider them for long term role or will they want a 'marque name' to come in and take over.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I know dude, but i do think it goes on alot...espcecially with the forwards....its just Richards was caught.

I'd love to be proved wrong...but i dont think i ever will be...

It does go on and sometimes much worse!

I was talking to Deano recently and he told a story of the French front row who routinely smeared their fingers with ralgex to make their gouging even more effective.

Deano could still get the England job, if Matt Stevens can take cocaine and get banned for several years then make a come back for England, then Deano can easily come back from a suspension over a blood capsule.

Far worse has gone on in rugby in the past than what Deano did, it's also been fairly well documented now that a few coaches were doing dodgy things, it's just Deano copped the ban for everyone to clean that area of the game up. He was the scapegoat in effect.

Deano always seemed to get the best out of players. Never quite got to the bottom of why he was pushed out of Leicester, but he did well there and at Quins, so I wouldn't mind if he was in and around the England management.

For me, Dean Richards is beyond the pale at the International level. And always will be.

I don't care about any good things he has done, the stupid bungler blew everything in that one moment. On that stage, at that moment, in front of everyone and on tv? Dumb beyond belief. Cranially deficient. Ethically absent. Don't want him anywhere near England. Don't want him near any national team.

How do you feel about reformed drug addicts being welcomed back in to the fold Doc?

Should Richards not be allowed to serve his time in the way that a certain England front row has?

Perhaps we feel more comfortable with drug taking nowadays.

I get your point, but I am not sure they are the same thing. I guess the first point is Matt Stevens committed a criminal act. Dean Richards did not. Stevens was duly, and in my opinion, correctly punished and suspended by the governing body. I will leave the criminal aspects alone for the moment except to say drugs are criminal and wrong, impacts self, family, friends, and enables more criminal activity. He has a criminal record and that will follow him the rest of his life. He will always be seen in this light.

Richards act was different. He was in a leadership position and abused it. Blatantly, openly, stupidly cheated. Callously brought other people down with him, brought the sport into disrepute and embarrassed everyone associated with it. Not just himself. Not just Quins. All if us. Made Rugby look unprofessional, like a petty, small time, clubby, anything goes kind of thing.
No doubts, this kind of thing used to be much more common. When I was coming up, there was a lot of this stuff, and we all know what used to go on. Though not so long ago, it really was a different era. To be a proper, fully professional, modern sport, this amatuer-era mentality has got to be eliminated.

Dean Richards cannot be allowed near Twickenham because of what he did and what that action represents. Everything he does will be under a microscope. He will never be completely trusted. No national team needs this. Especially one trying to clean its image, as England and the RFU need to do. This will always follow him. Is it equivalent to what Stevens did? Or even fair? No. Not remotely. But the reality is Stevens will be forgiven and Richards will not. He will always be seen as the Bloodgate guy. And because that action was open, and on TV, his intelligence and character will always be under a cloud.

I would like to think that if unsavoury characters like Steve Walsh and Stephens along with an unhealthy dose of eye gougers can be accepted back in to the game we should extend the same welcome to Richards.

I think Richards is welcome back in the game, mate. But not for England or any national team. For someone to be a leader, the face of the National Organisation, don't you think he needs to be held to a higher standard? I think that is part of the essence of leadership. On the other hand, a number of clubs could do quite well to hire him.

You mention gougers and drug addicts.

I think the gouging suspension Hartley received was probably the right one: 6 months. I think the punishments received by Burger and Quinlan were far too mild. Not singling them out at the exclusion of others, but the only names I can think of at the moment. The only way to remove it from the game is to make the punishments severe. This is not the old school amateur Rugby. About 15 years ago I remember being at the bottom of a ruck when some piece of merde started pushing one of my eyes out the back of my head. I broke two of his fingers right there. Neither action was good.

The drug addicts also need severe punishments, and again, I think the two years for Stevens was correct. I don't recall how log Steve Walsh was out, but, in addition to counceling and information, severe ramafications are needed. Then they are welcome back in the game, too.

Point taken re the International aspect Doc.

Sorry if I sounded a bit preachy. Not my intent. England cannot afford any more missteps. The organisations still needs a major overhaul and they need the right coaching set-up.

I think there is absolutely zero chance of Richards ever being involved with the England set-up. What he did was incredibly damaging. He'll probably end up at a big club in the end, but the RFU could never employ him.

Non taken Doc.

I wouldn't mind him at the Ospreys