Federer Cool With Murray

Neil Harmen writing in the Times (you will have to pay to read full article) describes Murrays late entry into Federer's "home" tournament in Basle as "intriguing". By playing in Asia whilst Federer was resting Murray has for the first time overtaken Federer in the rankings.

This is not a tournament that Murray usually plays and it was not down on his calander. It also has a very strong field for a 500 with the world number 1 playing. With both Federer and Djokovic secure to play I have my doubts about how much Murray would have been offered as far as appearance fee. Murray has also made it clear in the past that he sometimes uses smaller tournaments as practice (this made him very popular in Dubai...). What therefore was his motivation?

If (and I say if) Murray is playing this tournament as an opportunity to use his fresh ranking position to make some sort of statement to Federer by knocking him from his perch in his home tournament. Federer quite rightly is not taking the bait. This is what he had to say.

“It doesn’t matter at all if I am No 3 or 4 in the world,” Federer said. “No 5 would make a difference with the seeding, but No 4 is OK. If I would have wanted to stop Murray, I’d have gone to Asia. But it wasn’t important for me. I can see that it’s nice for Murray, no doubt.

I’m curious if he will win a slam. I guess he will. I don’t want to say an exact number; that could bring me trouble.”

Is it a real mystery that Murray wants to test his game against that of the best hard court players in the world before WTF? I don't think so, win or lose, playing against the best means more than arguably easier wins elsewhere.

Also, what is the relevance of a comment he made almost two years ago about trying out things he wouldn't necessarily try in a grand slam match in his Dubai match? I can't see how it applies here - please clarify.

Hawkeye It's interesting that you cherry pick the bits out the article that you want to prove your point. You miss out the bit where he says Murray's participation is a great thing for the Swiss Indoors and that he understands exactly how Murray feels right now in relation his form and game and says "you want to play, it's fantastic, its what you work for'

As to the using the tournament for practice reference. Yes it did happen but how many times have we read on this forum when Murray wins a tournament that he only won because the top 3 guys were not playing to their full level as they were concentrating on peaking at coming slams.

Expecting Fed to be cool with Murray getting to number 3, he's more concerned with finding that 2+ slam a season winning form and returning to number 1. Anything that happens until then is minor.

As for his reaction to Murray's participation, I don't think he has any feelings either way.

bit of a non story this IMO. I think Murray went to Basle for two reasons

1) Because the best players are there, and he wants to test himself out against them. This is probably linked to his current form too.

2) The courts in Basle are quicker than the ones in Valencia, thus closer to the conditions in Paris. Now in previous years Murray has played Valencia, done reasonably well and then not so great in Paris (last two years he lost to Stepanek and Monfils - not usually guys he struggles with I'm sure you'll agree).

As for the n°3 thing, I think it was a way for Murray of setting himself a goal for the rest of the year.

Basel is indoors and its bl00dy cold out there you know, so why not play there.

Ooh, the conspiracy of Murray is more intriguing than George Smiley, maybe Andy is a Russian spy and is using his touring calendar as a front to extricate valuable military data from Majors countries around the world in the strings of his racquets that get so obviously broken at opportune moments in a match and then get sent for "Re-stringing" at the local spy depot.

Maybe he is the "Traitor" all the English people think he is.

Calder 106

Of course I'll "cherry pick" the interesting bits. Federer doing the usual bla bla bla about how great everything is what we are usually fed.

Harmen said it was intriguing he chose a late entry into this tournament. What he has said in the past about smaller tournaments and practice is maybe one of the reasons that it seems unexpected.

All the stuff about fast courts, being indoors, a test against the best players etc could of course be relevent. But they have always been true. If Murray had been down to play originally it would hardly count as "intriguing". I am just guessing but I doubt he will be paid much more than prize money either. He probably could have got a bigger appearance fee elsewhere. Also unlike other players he hardly needs the practice.

Federer knows all this and sounds cool about it. In fact all the players must know all of this. Neil Harmon knows this and is intriguied. I know all this and find it entertaining...

Jubbahey

Ha ha! Murray would make a poor spy as he talks far too much... unless its all an elaborate double bluff

If you listened to Murray's interview on Sky after Shanghai he was asked what next. He said that he had options to play in either Basel or Valencia but that he had not decided at that stage whether he played in either of them. He said that he was going to have a few days rest then see how his body felt before commiting himself to anything. He got bad press earlier in the year for dropping out of Dubai when he had entered it a bit like Federer in Halle. So it looks like he has gone home, talked with his team, decided that he is fresh enough to play and that entering Basel suits his schedule and aims bettter than Valencia.

Federer is right saying that it doesn;t really matter being number 3 or 4...in a situation where all top 4 players are playing....but he is wrong and it DOES matter when one of the top 2 player is missing like in Basle for instance, cause then being number 3 can give you a chance to play only one top 4....whereas the number 4 could have to play the top 2 seeds.

Same in a slam where one of the top 2 gets injured.

I think Calder's right, in that Murray played three weeks in a row in Asia, and wasn't sure if one week off would be enough. Clearly he's decided he feels it's best to keep playing, hence the late entry.

Tenez, good point, but the way the draw here panned out it wouldn't have made any difference anyway. I'd quite like to see a Murray-Federer match again, it's been nearly a year since they last played.

I think it is definitely a statement of intent from Murray to play Basel - he and Fed have a history of playing mind games with each other - and I think actually good for him. He is laying down his marker and claiming his right to be a number 2 seed at a tournament above TMF for the first time - that's got to feel good and give him some confidence.

I don't agree, however, that it will tell us much about where he is atm because Fed will be rusty and Nole is recovering from injury and will presumably not try to kill himself in the last analysis. I did think I might back TMF for this because he would be rested, hungry and in front of his home crowd, but the less than stellar beginning makes me believe that Murray should take this one easily, though of course he does have an interesting and tricky draw. Hopefully Murray will be able to play within himself and have plenty in the tank for WTF - where it certainly will be interesting to see who is in top form.

Anyway - wonderful players for a 500 - as someone else mentioned, the TD must think Christmas has come very early this year.

Federer and Murray havent played a single match against each other in 2011, which is pretty amazing and a little bit disapointing considering they are two of the best four players in the world and have had very similar 2011 seasons IMO.
In terms of how Murray has or hasnt improved within that mini group of 4 (if you want to include him as part of it, I would say by and large he was) it would be great to see how he matches up against Federer in a head to head, not just in accrued ranking points.
Hopefully this week will let us have a glimpse of that.

time please

I don't believe Federer plays "mind games". He has no need to. He is often more honest in interviews than other players. Murray on the other hand... I'm not sure if its mind games or nievity but he comes out with stuff that often requires ... um clarification.

I agree that Federer and Djokovic may not play their best but am hoping that they do. This end of year has a very stale feel to it.

Hawkeye Another dig at Murray ? From someone who cherry picks the bits out of articles that he wants in order that it is slanted to their opinion it a bit rich saying that his comments need um clarification.

Of course going by some's estimations should Federer or Djokovic not win it will be because they haven't played their best or weren't trying all that hard. On the other hand should Andy Murray win then people here already have their excuses lined up.

Anyways, not sure why the reporter is intrigued at all. After his domination in the Far East Andy made it clear he hadn't decided whether he would play either Basle or Valencia. I can't see the intrugue that he picked Basle where it has A. Faster Courts more like Paris and London B. Offers more of a challenge with a stronger field and C. Why play Valencia when all it contains are players he beat frequently in the Far East?

As for Federer's comments he is spot on. To him No.3 or No.4 in the world doesn't change things for him as far as the draw in slams go. He'd be more alarmed should he drop to No.5.

I agree with you about Fed's honesty hawkeye - I think it must be a Swiss thing because my mother shares the same non bs approach to all things TMF is great- he is usually really interesting to listen to because he will praise his opponent but he will also call everything exactly how he sees it, which makes for interesting reading.

I do think he has made exceptions with Murray in the past (AO 2010) but Andy was playing them as well - it is part of the dynamic between these two for a while now.

I am sure TMF is aware that Andy would love to rub that No 3 in his face, and he is just doing that little 'I could have stopped him if it was important to me' stuff just to keep the young pretender in his place - it's part of sport, and it is definitely part of the rivalry between these two imo.

Diggers wrote:Federer and Murray havent played a single match against each other in 2011, which is pretty amazing and a little bit disapointing considering they are two of the best four players in the world and have had very similar 2011 seasons IMO.
In terms of how Murray has or hasnt improved within that mini group of 4 (if you want to include him as part of it, I would say by and large he was) it would be great to see how he matches up against Federer in a head to head, not just in accrued ranking points.
Hopefully this week will let us have a glimpse of that.

Quite tough to judge if Murray has improved or not really. A couple of years ago he was beating the top players often, but losing to players you wouldn't really expect him to. Certainly in the slams anyway. Now it's gone full circle. He's beating "the rest" relatively comfortably, but only 2 wins against other top 4 players all season is really poor for him.

It will be really interesting if he gets to face Federer in the semis, and even more interesting is he gets through to face Djokovic. I don't think it reallt matters for those 2 guys if they lose, but I think it would be pretty huge for Murray to beat both of them.

He needs that belief. In his 4 slam defeats this year, I haven't really felt like Murray was ever convinced he was going to win... Except for maybe half an hour at Wimbledon... But even that belief was so fragile it was broken by one miss.

Danny_1982 wrote:He needs that belief. In his 4 slam defeats this year, I haven't really felt like Murray was ever convinced he was going to win... Except for maybe half an hour at Wimbledon... But even that belief was so fragile it was broken by one miss.

I agree, completely different attitude from him to that brilliant semi against Rafa US Open 2008 and the QF at AO in 2010, when Murray strode onto court in those two matches he looked like he meant business from the start and was taking no prisoners.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Of course going by some's estimations should Federer or Djokovic not win it will be because they haven't played their best or weren't trying all that hard. On the other hand should Andy Murray win then people here already have their excuses lined up. Whistle

I think that is probably misunderstanding this thread Craig - that's an argument with someone else on a different thread. I don't agree with you about it telling us the exact place Murray is in at the moment against a competitive ND or RF just because ND is coming back from a debilitating injury - not sure about Fed and Murray atm because we haven't seen a match between the two of them this year.

I am really looking forward to WTF when I hope that we will see the top four at full strength and with match practice behind them.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Of course going by some's estimations should Federer or Djokovic not win it will be because they haven't played their best or weren't trying all that hard. On the other hand should Andy Murray win then people here already have their excuses lined up.

Anyways, not sure why the reporter is intrigued at all. After his domination in the Far East Andy made it clear he hadn't decided whether he would play either Basle or Valencia. I can't see the intrugue that he picked Basle where it has A. Faster Courts more like Paris and London B. Offers more of a challenge with a stronger field and C. Why play Valencia when all it contains are players he beat frequently in the Far East?

As for Federer's comments he is spot on. To him No.3 or No.4 in the world doesn't change things for him as far as the draw in slams go. He'd be more alarmed should he drop to No.5.

Ha ha! You've got me sussed as far as the winner in Basle goes. But you have to admit it would mean a lot more to Murray. Also me and Niel Harman are intriguied by Murray. Surely thats a good thing... better than being bored by him.

time please

Of course TMF is great! I already dread the day he retires. One consolation may be that he appears to love the game and he might stick around as a commentator. He would make a great one.

It would mean a lot more to Murray if he beats Federer and Djokovic back-to-back of course and that in itself gives you the reason why he opted for Basle. More mental rewards and challenges there than at Valencia so why the intrigue?

It would mean a lot more to Murray. But would it really mean that much? Anyway you may be getting a little ahead of yourself.

Sorry I don't think I can explain the intrigue any more.

Perhaps you can't because there is no intrigue. Yes it would mean a fair bit more than playing in Valencia and (if he were to) win there as he knows he can beat the players over in Valencia as much of them played in the Far East so what would be the point. If he were to beat Federer and Djokovic (yes a long way off yet) then that would mean so much more than beating David Ferrer (for a third time in almost as many weeks) and Jo-Wilifried Tsonga.

Obviously if Murray were to win it beating Feder and Djokovic on the way he would see that as an achievement. But as Hawkeye says I don't really think it would mean that much and I don't feel that is the object him playing this week. His real targets which he stated previously are Paris and the WTF's. Looks like he feels his fitness and energy levels are fine but that actual game time will keep his game sharp for the coming events. He is also in the doubles. I'm sure he is not intending treating Basle as a practice session to try out new things (done that got it wrong) but then again like Federer, Nadal agrument for Masters events (can't put Djokovic in that discussion this year) he will be aiming to peak at the later events.

Would like to see the top guys playing each other but not convinced it will happen this week.

This like a Sun headline. 'Impacting' words and lacking in content.

Oh obviously in the grand scheme of things just now his big goals are Paris and the WTF so failing to win at Basel or if he had gone to Valencia would not be a disaster and likewise for Federer or Djokovic. But if he were to beat Federer and Djokovic back-to-back it is a pyschological boost for the bigger challenges that lie ahead. A potential type of psychological boost that didn't exist in Valencia hence why he is playing in Basel so you see no intrigue.

From Neil Harman on twitter

Murray said "Monday i practised hard and felt great. Tuesday i could not walk.Maybe i slept in a wrong position."

Is this intruiging?

hawkeye wrote:From Neil Harman on twitter

Murray said "Monday i practised hard and felt great. Tuesday i could not walk.Maybe i slept in a wrong position."

Is this intruiging?

I call it spooning myself.

legendkillar wrote:

hawkeye wrote:From Neil Harman on twitter

Murray said "Monday i practised hard and felt great. Tuesday i could not walk.Maybe i slept in a wrong position."

Is this intruiging?

I call it spooning myself.

How do you spoon yourself?

JuliusHMarx wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

hawkeye wrote:From Neil Harman on twitter

Murray said "Monday i practised hard and felt great. Tuesday i could not walk.Maybe i slept in a wrong position."

Is this intruiging?

I call it spooning myself.

How do you spoon yourself?

I think the question is who was with him?

As to the using the tournament for practice reference. Yes it did happen but how many times have we read on this forum when Murray wins a tournament that he only won because the top 3 guys were not playing to their full level as they were concentrating on peaking at coming slams.

------------

I've never heard anyone suggest that. Of course the top three will be in tip top shape for this one!

Super D Boon wrote:As to the using the tournament for practice reference. Yes it did happen but how many times have we read on this forum when Murray wins a tournament that he only won because the top 3 guys were not playing to their full level as they were concentrating on peaking at coming slams.

------------

I've never heard anyone suggest that. Of course the top three will be in tip top shape for this one!

So the current Top 3, Djokovic, Nadal and Murray will be in tip-top shape.

Hopefully the Top 8 would be in tip-top shape for a memorable WTF. Perhaps Federer can nick this one (WTF title #6) and separate himself from Lendl/Sampras.

legendkillar wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

hawkeye wrote:From Neil Harman on twitter

Murray said "Monday i practised hard and felt great. Tuesday i could not walk.Maybe i slept in a wrong position."

Is this intruiging?

I call it spooning myself.

How do you spoon yourself?

I think the question is who was with him?

Spoon, of course....

noleisthebest wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

legendkillar wrote:

hawkeye wrote:From Neil Harman on twitter

Murray said "Monday i practised hard and felt great. Tuesday i could not walk.Maybe i slept in a wrong position."

Is this intruiging?

I call it spooning myself.

How do you spoon yourself?

I think the question is who was with him?

Spoon, of course....