WBA blame managers, promoters and fighters for the proliferation of titles.....discuss

at their recent convention in the Ukraine the WBA discussed interim titles

"The oft discussed interim championships were then debated, with several directory members weighing in on the controversial subject. WBA legal counsel Robert Mack opined that, it is the television networks and fighters and their managers themselves who are in favor of the sub titles. “It gives television a better sell,” chimed Mack. “The fighters, managers and promoters came to us asking for a chance at an interim title.” Gilberto Jesus Mendoza stated that the WBA wasn’t originally in favor of interim titles, and in fact it was the WBC who started with the interim titles."

and yet HBO refuse to pay for Berto's IBF mandatory vs Bailey so he bins the belt to go fight Ortiz

Belts are a thing of the past. Its fights that sell

So it's the fault of promoters and fighters who wanted to give away more of their money to a governing body for publicly ridiculed titles as opposed to a governing body who is milking the sport for every penny it can get.

I'm not too sure I believe this, I can't actually imagine that promoters are willing to give away Governing Body title fees and if they have lied about this then I don't know whether they're telling the truth about the Television companies, unless they all genuinely believe it sells better with a title on the line...

"The WBA blame...everyone but themselves."

Wasn't me, it was like this when I got here.

BALTIMORA wrote:"The WBA blame...everyone but themselves."

Seems very accurate

“The fighters, managers and promoters came to us asking for a chance at an interim title.”

I'd love to know who.

Money and greed of course is the answer. When demand grows money increases, people get rich and the rest is history, you cant avoid it. Boxing became very popular and forgot its values. There was a time when 1 world champion was the gold at the end of the rainbow with the rainbow being the long hard road of a boxing career. Now the gold can be found anywhere as corporations spring up and leech of fighters and the sport. Face it lads the golden age of boxing has come and gone and the word champion has been devalued,

Mike Tyson and Marvin Haglar were the last great world champions of their divisions.

Ultimately the blame lies with the fans. Like if Alexander Povetkin can get a bunch of dopey Russians and Germans to ACTUALLY BELIEVE he is a world champion then it's their fault.

I blame the Germans because they are the most stupidly easy to please group of people when it comes to boxing. They'll turn up in their thousands to watch someone like Karoly Balzay fight a bar room drunk for the regular interim emerald WBA doo dah world title. So the sanctioning bodies are obviously going to cash in on people's stupidity.

Hm.. I've not read much about this Marvin Haglar, must watch some of his fights.

Alex are you following me???????

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Alex are you following me???????

Yeah I'm behind you right now...

Steffan wrote:Belts are a thing of the past. Its fights that sell

Belts are still important, they help build the reputation of the fighter who holds it. I mean, how many big name fighters are fighting right now that have never held a belt?

Super D Boon wrote:Ultimately the blame lies with the fans. Like if Alexander Povetkin can get a bunch of dopey Russians and Germans to ACTUALLY BELIEVE he is a world champion then it's their fault.

I blame the Germans because they are the most stupidly easy to please group of people when it comes to boxing. They'll turn up in their thousands to watch someone like Karoly Balzay fight a bar room drunk for the regular interim emerald WBA doo dah world title. So the sanctioning bodies are obviously going to cash in on people's stupidity.

Blame the Germans? You can also blame the Brits who showed up in their thousands to watch Hatton defend his WBU rubbish.

It is one immsensely sick joke, isn't it.

Welcome aboard by the way, Vxrandall.

I'm personally amazed at that statement, and just don't know who to believe any more.

I can understand why the TV networks would want more titles, after all 'tune in this Saturday to watch the interim WBA world championship belt contested" sounds a lot more appealing to the very casual fan than 'tune in for a non-title fight between...', but that isn't to say it is right by any stretch, and just devalues the titles more and more each time a new piece of garbage is added in to the mix.

Much as it pains me to admit it, whilst they are obviously hateful folk the WBA do have half a point here. I have long argued that if change is likely to come it does need to be TV driven because with the bulk of money earned at the top level paid by the major TV players they are in the box seat to drive change. We saw it over here with Sky, a few years ago we were awash with WBF, WBU etc inter continental belts and the like on Tv every weekend and then someone at Sky said enough was enough and they wanted proper domestic, Euro and world belts and almost overnight the nonsense stopped. Have to think globally the same could be done were the will to do so present.

You're bang on in that assessment, Rowley.

It is most definitely TV that powers it.

Fists of Fury wrote:You're bang on in that assessment, Rowley.

It is most definitely TV that powers it.

Swings and roundabouts though, 'cause if the sanctioning bodies were less greedy they wouldn't feel the need to bend to the pressure. It's diminishing returns too, surely. Each new belt undermines their worth individually.

BALTIMORA wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:You're bang on in that assessment, Rowley.

It is most definitely TV that powers it.

Swings and roundabouts though, 'cause if the sanctioning bodies were less greedy they wouldn't feel the need to bend to the pressure. It's diminishing returns too, surely. Each new belt undermines their worth individually.

Assumes they think in the long term Balti, the governing bodies can surely see the harm the number of belts are causing but their recent ideas seem to have amounted to the introduction of super belts and the old favourite the introduction of a super heavyweight division. The idea that anyone with even a casual interest in the sport could think what it needs is more belts or divisions beggars belief. God only knows what the answer is but something needs to happen because when you have a situation where hardcore fans of the sport cannot name 50% of champions in the game it is farcical. Can guarantee where we having the conversation in the 8 divisions one belt era each and everyone of us would be able to name every champion in the world.

Not sure they see any harm Rowley, they just see the $$$$$$$$

Sadly the only ones that can do anything about it are the boxers themselves. And do they have a governing body? Nope.

My plan is to make myself CEO of "The World Boxing Group". Fighters signup to it and the only real part of the contract is that they only recongise 'regular' titles from the 3 organisations with any history - WBA, WBC and IBF. The WBO is a waste of space (Fwank might disagree).

You'd basically be asking them to drop the silly interim, silver, diamond belts. If there is a regular champion then so be it. They can fight them for the belt and be first in line to do so.

It makes all far too much sense to happen.

Atila wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:Ultimately the blame lies with the fans. Like if Alexander Povetkin can get a bunch of dopey Russians and Germans to ACTUALLY BELIEVE he is a world champion then it's their fault.

I blame the Germans because they are the most stupidly easy to please group of people when it comes to boxing. They'll turn up in their thousands to watch someone like Karoly Balzay fight a bar room drunk for the regular interim emerald WBA doo dah world title. So the sanctioning bodies are obviously going to cash in on people's stupidity.

Blame the Germans? You can also blame the Brits who showed up in their thousands to watch Hatton defend his WBU rubbish.

Not the same. Everyone knew at the time that Hatton wasn't a real world champion they just loved watching him because of his Man City fanbase and his entertaining style. The Germans however genuinely think they're watching true world champions. Pitiful.

It's not inconceivable that in the near future the top guys will simply fight for the Top Rank Belt or the Golden Boy Belt with everything being in house and occasionally having a unification fight, which would simply be about the promoters getting bragging rights if their guy won!

Super D Boon wrote:

Atila wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:Ultimately the blame lies with the fans. Like if Alexander Povetkin can get a bunch of dopey Russians and Germans to ACTUALLY BELIEVE he is a world champion then it's their fault.

I blame the Germans because they are the most stupidly easy to please group of people when it comes to boxing. They'll turn up in their thousands to watch someone like Karoly Balzay fight a bar room drunk for the regular interim emerald WBA doo dah world title. So the sanctioning bodies are obviously going to cash in on people's stupidity.

Blame the Germans? You can also blame the Brits who showed up in their thousands to watch Hatton defend his WBU rubbish.

Not the same. Everyone knew at the time that Hatton wasn't a real world champion they just loved watching him because of his Man City fanbase and his entertaining style. The Germans however genuinely think they're watching true world champions. Pitiful.

I don't think that situation is unique in Germany. In Britain for instance, David Haye was seen as by many as the legit HW champion when in reality he couldnt have been considered anything more than a paper champion. Not forgetting the thousands who were willing to fork out PPV money to watch him fight someone like Audley Harrison

But at least David Haye himself knew he wasn't really the heavweight champ that's why he fought Wlad. I mean these German fighters (and their fans) just don't care. As long as they got a strap they just don't care!

Super D Boon wrote:But at least David Haye himself knew he wasn't really the heavweight champ that's why he fought Wlad. I mean these German fighters (and their fans) just don't care. As long as they got a strap they just don't care!

you dont appear to be the biggest fan of german boxing.

Whilst I am by no means going to leap to the defence of German boxing, the Klitschkos are based over there and they have never ducked challengers, also Abrahams has shown a willingness to travel and take risks. Also not everywhere else in the world is whiter than white. Sturm agreed to travel once in his career and got right royally screwed, cna hardly blame him for not rushing to repeat the experience.

Problem is Rowley with all their contractual stipulations (if one of them loses they the other guy signs his life, wife and kids over to Sauerland promotions) is it worth the challengers even winning?!

Am by far from absolving them coxy but they would not be the first fighters in the box seat to drive a hard bargain at the table, has happened since the dawn of the game. What is also forgotten is if you don't like the conditions you have the option of becoming mandatory challenger, rematch clauses and such like are not permitted in mandatory challenges. Is inevitable if they are negotiating with a guy like Chisora who has done sod all to actually deserve the chance they are going to screw him.

Super D Boon wrote:But at least David Haye himself knew he wasn't really the heavweight champ that's why he fought Wlad. I mean these German fighters (and their fans) just don't care. As long as they got a strap they just don't care!

As Rowley pointed out, there are several German based boxers/belt holders who have shown ambition and willingness to fight the best contenders and challengers available so its harsh to put them all under the same bracket.

Even some of the lesser ones like Robert Stieglitz have recently stepped up their competition.

Lets not also forget in Britain we have promoters like Warren who has a reputation for protecting his fighters, padding their records and getting them titles in the easiest possible way.

Yeah but Abraham seems to have bucked the trend recently but can't see any others. Stieglitz is only fighting Kessler because Kessler is now a German promoted fighter.

Apart for the K bros who I do like and often find myself arguing their case for , what German based boxer over the last umpteen years has ever proved themselves to be a true world champion and truly ambitious? You could argue that the K bros aren't even true world champions because they share the division between them.

Fists of Fury wrote:Welcome aboard by the way, Vxrandall.

thanks man.

and for anyone else that i havent spoken to via twitter yet i'm @boxingbenzilla on twitter so i look forward to more discussion and debate with you here and there

Super D Boon wrote:

Atila wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:Ultimately the blame lies with the fans. Like if Alexander Povetkin can get a bunch of dopey Russians and Germans to ACTUALLY BELIEVE he is a world champion then it's their fault.

I blame the Germans because they are the most stupidly easy to please group of people when it comes to boxing. They'll turn up in their thousands to watch someone like Karoly Balzay fight a bar room drunk for the regular interim emerald WBA doo dah world title. So the sanctioning bodies are obviously going to cash in on people's stupidity.

Blame the Germans? You can also blame the Brits who showed up in their thousands to watch Hatton defend his WBU rubbish.

Not the same. Everyone knew at the time that Hatton wasn't a real world champion they just loved watching him because of his Man City fanbase and his entertaining style. The Germans however genuinely think they're watching true world champions. Pitiful.

Again, you can say the same of the British. The WBO seems to have gained credibitily but I remember when it started and it was s#@t, but you couldn't tell a British fight fan that. Eubank, Benn, McKenzie, Hide and the other WBO champs were all treated as real world champs.

Everyone knew Hatton wasn't a real world champion??

I personally never rated Eubank and Benn as highly but it was they who helped make the WBO the legit belt that it is now I suppose. The problem I got with the Germans is that there seems to be no real ambition in the fighters to prove themselevs the very best and the fans don't seem to care a damn who they fight and what they fight for. Take for example we've had Lewis, Calzaghe, Hamed, Hatton from UK in recent times prove they're the very best in their divsion yet which German based paper champion has ever done that? You can say the K bros but then there are two of them! Also Germany is home to god knows how many robberies and yet they don't give a stuff what anyone else thinks about it.

Super D Boon wrote: Take for example we've had Lewis, Calzaghe, Hamed, Hatton from UK in recent times prove they're the very best in their divsion yet which German based paper champion has ever done that? You can say the K bros but then there are two of them! Also Germany is home to god knows how many robberies and yet they don't give a stuff what anyone else thinks about it.

Did Hatton really prove himself to be the best in the division? At best he can claim that he was the man at the weight but he didnt clean it up. For whatever reasons, fights with Witter, Bradley and Cotto failed to materialize at LWW.
Also, while Calzaghe eventually did unify his division, he's hardly a good example to give if we're talking about ambitious fighters. He spent most of his career holding a single belt and defending it against poor opposition (something you're attacking the German based boxers for doing).

Robberies take place all over the globe. The worst one in recent times was Lara-Williams which took place Stateside.