Top 3 Wingers in Europe

Interested to see who you beleive are the top 3 wingers in Europe currently? Try and stay as objective as possible!

MacVisser must be up there, along with Montpellier's Nagusa, Doug Howlett (prior to his v recent injury) ... and am sure there are other good candidates too

Clerc
Haymans
Doug Howlett

Excluding non Europeans playing here:

Medard
North
Bowe

(Ashton rules himself out on account of him being a t****r)

Visser -

top scorer in the Rabo 12 2 years running. scores tries at a much higher rate per game than Bowe or North despite paying for a team that loses more than it wins.

1. Clerc
2. Visser
3. Bowe

Clerc is the top try scorer in the HC with 32 tries. He has also crossed the white wash 31 times for France with 55 caps. Easy call really for the best winger in Europe.

Visser has to be in there since he is the Rabo pro 12 top scorer 2 seasons running and is already well on his way to collecting the accolade again this year with 8 tries already under his belt. He is also currently tied at the top with another of my picks for the top 3 in HC this year (Tommy Bowe).

Tommy Bowe has been one of the best Lions wingers for some time. It was a close call between him and Shane Williams for this accolade but with Williams hanging up his boots it had to go to Bowe, who has been Immense for the Hairsprays, Ireland and the Lions.

offload wrote:Excluding non Europeans playing here:

Medard
North
Bowe

(Ashton rules himself out on account of him being a t****r)

George North? The best in Eurpoe? Really?

TJ wrote:Visser -

top scorer in the Rabo 12 2 years running. scores tries at a much higher rate per game than Bowe or North despite paying for a team that loses more than it wins.

Has to be doing it in the top competition for me to impress. I'd have

Medard
Clerc
Howlett

Isnt medard more a full back than a winger

Both, personally think he is a better threat on the wing

Timoci Nagusa I remember him at Ulster, I liked Jimmy fast, played like a backrow forward at times, and speed merchant wing at others, fast and powerful, Didn't think he'd ever be mentioned as one of the best 3 in Europe mind. Fair play to him.
Why'd we lose him and keep Danielli????

The OP mentioned 'recently' which is why I put forward Nagusa and didn't consider Bowe who's not quite been at his peak form for me recently

Bathite wrote:

TJ wrote:Visser -

top scorer in the Rabo 12 2 years running. scores tries at a much higher rate per game than Bowe or North despite paying for a team that loses more than it wins.

Has to be doing it in the top competition for me to impress. I'd have

Medard
Clerc
Howlett

Strange, I always thought Howlett and Visser played in the same competition. Strange how Howlett warrants inclusion and Visser does not. You can hardly say Howlett has scored truckloads of tries in the ERC either since the top 10 try scorers are Clerc, BOC, D James, B Cohen, D'Arcy, Marfaing, Foley, Murphy and Voyce.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:1. Clerc
2. Visser
3. Bowe

Clerc is the top try scorer in the HC with 32 tries. He has also crossed the white wash 31 times for France with 55 caps. Easy call really for the best winger in Europe.

Visser has to be in there since he is the Rabo pro 12 top scorer 2 seasons running and is already well on his way to collecting the accolade again this year with 8 tries already under his belt. He is also currently tied at the top with another of my picks for the top 3 in HC this year (Tommy Bowe).

Tommy Bowe has been one of the best Lions wingers for some time. It was a close call between him and Shane Williams for this accolade but with Williams hanging up his boots it had to go to Bowe, who has been Immense for the Hairsprays, Ireland and the Lions.

Edinburgh has one of the worst defence records in the Rabbo (along with Aironi & Connacht). Munster (by far the best) and Ospreys have much better defences. Wingers need to be able to defend as well.

PS - Williams had a poor Lions outing the last time. He got far more chances to succeed than he deserved and he only eventually came good in the last game.

Bowe's form has also been poorish for him for the last year or so. He didn't have a great world cup.

I'd say that its between Clerc & howlett for best winger in NH.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

offload wrote:Excluding non Europeans playing here:

Medard
North
Bowe

(Ashton rules himself out on account of him being a t****r)

George North? The best in Eurpoe? Really?

Yes really. He impressed on the world stage and is a shoe in for his national team. Visser has loads of potential but has not performed on the big stage yet.

Nagusa should not be mentioend - far too many weaknesses in his game to be considered.

Clerc in 1st

Bowe in 2nd

Visser in 3rd

Honourable mentions: Howlett, Heymans, Williams

Not just about stats for me, i'm talking about performances and Howlett's in the HC are streets ahead of Visser......so far!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Bathite wrote:

TJ wrote:Visser -

top scorer in the Rabo 12 2 years running. scores tries at a much higher rate per game than Bowe or North despite paying for a team that loses more than it wins.

Has to be doing it in the top competition for me to impress. I'd have

Medard
Clerc
Howlett

Strange, I always thought Howlett and Visser played in the same competition. Strange how Howlett warrants inclusion and Visser does not. You can hardly say Howlett has scored truckloads of tries in the ERC either since the top 10 try scorers are Clerc, BOC, D James, S Horgan, B Cohen, D'Arcy, Marfaing, Foley, Murphy and Voyce.

Fixed that for you Radge

Visser scores his tries at nearly double the rate per game than bowe or North in the same league playing for a team that does not score many.

He is far and away the best it eh RAbo 12 although its then hard to compare with other leagues. I beleive he is the best in Europe.

offload wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

offload wrote:Excluding non Europeans playing here:

Medard
North
Bowe

(Ashton rules himself out on account of him being a t****r)

George North? The best in Eurpoe? Really?

Yes really. He impressed on the world stage and is a shoe in for his national team. Visser has loads of potential but has not performed on the big stage yet.

In fairness, offload, it's not like he's had the opportunity, so I'm not sure that's relevant? We can but speculate at this stage, much like the requirement from the OP?

geoff998rugby wrote:Nagusa should not be mentioend - far too many weaknesses in his game to be considered.

Except he's been playing rather well recently? No, you're right, geoff, let's ignore that ...

It's not an easy accolade to give to be honest. People here are saying Visser is unproven on the highest stage. It's hard to disagree with comments like that since to my knowlege Visser has only played 1 international test match, however in said match he scored 2 tries, against England.

As I said purely on how he has played for Edinburgh he must be in consideration. He plays in the Pro 12 with renowned strike runners from all positions. Examples of prolific try scorers include :

BOD
Bowe
S Williams
Kearney
Howlett
Earles
North
Halfpenny

For the last 2 seasons Visser has outscored all of them. He is also 3 clear tries ahead of his nearest competition in the Pro 12 this year. I Know stats are not everything but credit surely where credit is due.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Bathite wrote:

TJ wrote:Visser -

top scorer in the Rabo 12 2 years running. scores tries at a much higher rate per game than Bowe or North despite paying for a team that loses more than it wins.

Has to be doing it in the top competition for me to impress. I'd have

Medard
Clerc
Howlett

Strange, I always thought Howlett and Visser played in the same competition. Strange how Howlett warrants inclusion and Visser does not. You can hardly say Howlett has scored truckloads of tries in the ERC either since the top 10 try scorers are Clerc, BOC, D James, B Cohen, D'Arcy, Marfaing, Foley, Murphy and Voyce.

Wasnt Fionn Carr top try scorer one year too.

Just because you are top try scorer in the magners doesnt make you one of the best wingers in Europe.

(Saying that Visser is letal)

Just because you are top try scorer in the magners doesnt make you one of the best wingers in Europe.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Can't wait to see Visser on the big stage, if for one thing, it will at least shut up half of us, proving the doubter or the overraters right/wrong

Bathite wrote:Can't wait to see Visser on the big stage, if for one thing, it will at least shut up half of us, proving the doubter or the overraters right/wrong

I would not count on that one. When he eventually does come to play for Scotland he'll have most likely either Morrison or Sean Lamont inside at 12. He is so lethal for Edinburgh because the Edinburgh centres wether it's King/Scott or Cairns/NDL create a lot of space for him.

If Andy Robinson wants Visser to do what he does for Edinburgh in the Navy Blue of Scotland he'll need to give some of the more Creative centres a go in the midfield.

Ashton may well be a tool but he is still one of the best wingers in the europe.

In no particular order....

Ashton
Clerc
Bowe

Can't argue with Metal Tiger.

Visser needs to improve himself internationally and in the HC.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Bathite wrote:Can't wait to see Visser on the big stage, if for one thing, it will at least shut up half of us, proving the doubter or the overraters right/wrong

I would not count on that one. When he eventually does come to play for Scotland he'll have most likely either Morrison or Sean Lamont inside at 12. He is so lethal for Edinburgh because the Edinburgh centres wether it's King/Scott or Cairns/NDL create a lot of space for him.

If Andy Robinson wants Visser to do what he does for Edinburgh in the Navy Blue of Scotland he'll need to give some of the more Creative centres a go in the midfield.

Getting your excuses in already! Ashton still scored tries outside Hape and Tindall, doesn't come more one dimensional and limited handling then that. Good wingers come looking for work, see Shane, Cohen, Ashton, Gear, Guildford, Hickie...off the top of my head

Clerc
Howlett
Williams

Visser scores more tires in the rabo 12 than bowe or north and at a higher rate per game. significantly so and playing for a worse team

You have to laugh at people on here, o.k Visser is a world class finisher and is lightening fast, but also mentioned on here Edinburgh's defence is awful and surely Visser contributes to it being awful. Good wingers are the one's that can catch the high ball, cover in defence, know when a chance is on and to come inside, weather to kick or to try and take a man on. Marc Jones for the Scarlets was good at all those things, but he was never rated as he did not finish as much as other wingers. If you look at people's posts on here the like's of Clerc, Bowe, Williams have all been mentioned, But you have to consider players like them as they are good all over the pitch. So here is my top three:- Clerc, North, Bowe.

I miss Nagusa. Never have a seen a player change more dramatically than he did between his 1st and 2nd season here. Up until christmas of that year he was our best player. An absolute beast.

I personally think we made a mistake retaining Danielli and letting him go

Visser

Williams

Clerc

LordDowlais

Visser does all these things - he really is the complete winger. He may prove to be one of those players that makes a great club player but cannot step up onto the international level - we will see but having watched him for a couple of seasons he really has it all, defence and attack.

a tackle clip- I know it doesn't prove much

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Su0wgGDizQ

Highlights of him playing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbKWBsa6yUc

LordDowlais wrote:You have to laugh at people on here, o.k Visser is a world class finisher and is lightening fast, but also mentioned on here Edinburgh's defence is awful and surely Visser contributes to it being awful. Good wingers are the one's that can catch the high ball, cover in defence, know when a chance is on and to come inside, weather to kick or to try and take a man on. Marc Jones for the Scarlets was good at all those things, but he was never rated as he did not finish as much as other wingers. If you look at people's posts on here the like's of Clerc, Bowe, Williams have all been mentioned, But you have to consider players like them as they are good all over the pitch. So here is my top three:- Clerc, North, Bowe.

"You have to laugh at people on here" Really? You don't think Visser is a good player? Top try Scorer in the Celtic league for the last 2 years and already three tries ahead of his nearest competition this year. I know we are all human and will put our own club players ahead of others who are in contention but credit where credit is due. You can't find it laughable that Visser is in contention for the accolade in the OP can you?

As for Vissers defending credentials. In the ERC this year he has made 7 tackles and missed 1.
George North has made 12 tackles and missed 2.

Pretty much equal ratio of missed tackles and made tackles. Differance is Visser has scored 2 tries and North has scored none in the ERC.

I could go digging deeper into stats etc but I can't be bothered and I know stats don't tell the whole story...... everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess.

I rate North very Highly and in truth his physical play and pace is pretty much identical to Vissers. I guess it's just down to what club you follow. Very little to draw between North and Visser IMO. For all those who say Scoring tries in the Rabo league is not an indication of how good a player is, then why don't players like Bowe, Howlett et al not score more tries?

Finally anyone who can skin Tommy Bowe like this is one of the best wingers in European Rugby :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWK5-tysb3I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

1. Clerc
2. Howlett
3. Ashton

1. Howlett
2. Clerc





The top 2 are head and shoulders above everyone else at the moment for me.


Ashton - let himself down with the ban/Northamptons results count against him.

Bowe - been nothing on his usual-self recently.

North - absolute beast since he's burst on the scene, 1 of the go-to strike runners for scarlets and wales, fast, big and smart.

Cuthbert - George North Mk 2, his performances for CArdiff have been top drawer, so far so good.

Vissers not great defensively, but is lethal in the set-up at edinburgh (as someone has said, I really doubt we'll see the best of him in the current scotland side unless Robinson drops the regins of conservatism in the 3/4's and midfield.)

Medards usually a fullback (otherwise I would have said Nacewa too!)

"Edinburghs defence is bad so surely Vissers must be part of that."

Well you obviously dont watch him then, because if you did, you wouldnt make such baseless assumptions. Vissers defence was poor when he first came into the rabo. If you actually watch him this season, youll realise that he is no longer a weak link in defence. He puts in the tackles required, rarely gets caught out of position anymore, hunts down broken field runners (Rob Kearney at murrayfield earlier in the season), and fields high balls with ease.

Edinburghs defensive issues are more tactics than any one player not pulling their weight.

Aside from that he does more work around the park than most wingers. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED!?!

oh and Fionn Carr has never been the top try scorer in the league. Theres this idea that he did it in 2009, despite Thom Evans beating him.

Comfort wrote:Cuthbert - George North Mk 2, his performances for CArdiff have been top drawer, so far so good.

A bit early to be saying he is North MkII surely?

We didnt exactly hold back on North did we, what makes you think we'll start now

Fair point!

Couldn't disagree with a lot of the names mentioned already.

One name that hasn't came up so far is Andrew Trimble. So I thought I'll give him a mention....there just did it......

And Horgan. One of the top HEC try scorers ever. And the most effective winger at retaining garryowens, retarts etc.

Horgan absolutely Feckless...if he wasn't injured. Arguably he was the best last season for a period before he got injured.

Horgan was absolutely unstoppable for a period last season.

Feckless Rogue wrote:1. Clerc
2. Howlett
3. Ashton

Howlett's injured and Ashton's banned, also not been in decent form, poor in defence lack of impetus in attack.

Imperialbigdave wrote:"Edinburghs defence is bad so surely Vissers must be part of that."

Well you obviously dont watch him then, because if you did, you wouldnt make such baseless assumptions. Vissers defence was poor when he first came into the rabo. If you actually watch him this season, youll realise that he is no longer a weak link in defence. He puts in the tackles required, rarely gets caught out of position anymore, hunts down broken field runners (Rob Kearney at murrayfield earlier in the season), and fields high balls with ease.

Edinburghs defensive issues are more tactics than any one player not pulling their weight.

Aside from that he does more work around the park than most wingers. WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED!?!

oh and Fionn Carr has never been the top try scorer in the league. Theres this idea that he did it in 2009, despite Thom Evans beating him.

I'd be pretty sure that players like Howlett would score more tries if they didn't bother too much with their defence.

Visser gets to play in games where the likes of Munster, Leinster & the Ospreys rest their internationals (Aironi, etc. etc.) They get to play in the Magners playoffs though - opposition would generally be against teams with best defences (like Munster, Leinster).

Visser Rabbo games (47) Brian O'Driscoll (66) Keith Earls (35) gives you an idea as to how many games these players get to play in.

Only flaw in Howlett's game is his kicking - he is rubbish at it.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Nagusa should not be mentioend - far too many weaknesses in his game to be considered.

Except he's been playing rather well recently? No, you're right, geoff, let's ignore that ...

Not ignoring anything.
A few good games does not make you one of the best 3 in Europe.

His defence is poor, his kicking is poor and his decision making is poor.
Speed yes, strength yes - although his tackling isn't that great.

There are many far better wingers in Europe

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:You have to laugh at people on here, o.k Visser is a world class finisher and is lightening fast, but also mentioned on here Edinburgh's defence is awful and surely Visser contributes to it being awful. Good wingers are the one's that can catch the high ball, cover in defence, know when a chance is on and to come inside, weather to kick or to try and take a man on. Marc Jones for the Scarlets was good at all those things, but he was never rated as he did not finish as much as other wingers. If you look at people's posts on here the like's of Clerc, Bowe, Williams have all been mentioned, But you have to consider players like them as they are good all over the pitch. So here is my top three:- Clerc, North, Bowe.

"You have to laugh at people on here" Really? You don't think Visser is a good player? Top try Scorer in the Celtic league for the last 2 years and already three tries ahead of his nearest competition this year. I know we are all human and will put our own club players ahead of others who are in contention but credit where credit is due. You can't find it laughable that Visser is in contention for the accolade in the OP can you?


As for Vissers defending credentials. In the ERC this year he has made 7 tackles and missed 1.
George North has made 12 tackles and missed 2.

Pretty much equal ratio of missed tackles and made tackles. Differance is Visser has scored 2 tries and North has scored none in the ERC.

I could go digging deeper into stats etc but I can't be bothered and I know stats don't tell the whole story...... everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess.

I rate North very Highly and in truth his physical play and pace is pretty much identical to Vissers. I guess it's just down to what club you follow. Very little to draw between North and Visser IMO. For all those who say Scoring tries in the Rabo league is not an indication of how good a player is, then why don't players like Bowe, Howlett et al not score more tries?

Finally anyone who can skin Tommy Bowe like this is one of the best wingers in European Rugby :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWK5-tysb3I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Ahem, excuse me, but where did I say that Visser is not a good player ? If you read what I said, you will see that I quted "Visser is a world class finisher and is lightening fast". I admit he is probably up there with the best in the league, but Europe ? and for people to say that he does not contribute to Edinburgh's leaky defence is a massive discredit to all the other players in the side. How often does Visser come off his wing looking for work ? There are not many rugby games that I have not watched in the Celtic/Magners/Rabbo Pro 12. I have never seen Visser have a barnstorming game but I have seen him execute moments of sheer class, I have also seen him out of position and not looking for work.