HO, HO, HO,

who's got the last laugh noooooooooooow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plbomcLe1rI&feature=player_embedded

Roland Garros 2006, press conference.

You can see why media are taking their time in getting their head around Novak's 2011.

Serves them right....

Seeing this video after a while really made this drab evening alight with that electric Nole buzz ...nothing half-baked about hm, love it!

That was after the 2006 quarter final at Roland Garros. Novak Djokovic lost the first two sets to Rafael Nadal (6-4 6-4) and then retired citing a back problem. I think it could be said that at the time Djokovic underestimated Nadals ability.

No, Nole was about 5 years behind Nadal in bodily development, lacked strength, stamina, ie Nadal was 5 years ahead, early bloomer.
What Nole had then was his game but that was not enough against a physically superior player, equivalent of a 5 year old playing an 8 year old.
It just all came together for him this year, at laaaaaaaaast!

I suppose we need to wait for Djokovic's post "tennis career" autobiography to get a complete angle of his thoughts. It is true that Nadal has said that he always found Djokovic to be his most difficult opponent (and that was something I think he said last year or maybe it was even two years ago).

Nore Staat wrote:I suppose we need to wait for Djokovic's post "tennis career" autobiography to get a complete angle of his thoughts. It is true that Nadal has said that he always found Djokovic to be his most difficult opponent (and that was something I think he said last year or maybe it was even two years ago).

Yes, I do find it fascinating how players push each other and move the game.
Djokovic, for example had to sit at his physical plateau for two years (2008/09) and suffer mentally, knowing what he was capable of and not being able to play his game.
It took him all of 2010 to start putting pieces together. His game has not changed.
Federer, on the other hand has always been physically impeccable so he had to change his game and play more from the baseline.
I am dead keen to see how Nadal reacts in 2012.
One of the most fascinating aspects of it , by far. Judging from all the "excuse" comments (he's burnt out, he's lost the diesire blah-blah) I bet he's working on his fitness like hell and can't wait to get his teeth into a trophy.

It's going to be tough for Nadal to increase his physique further. There are limits to what a body can do, with or without supplements. I think side effects would start to be difficult to control.

As convinced as I was last year that Djoko would do well in 2011, I am pretting sure Nadal will find it tougher from now on.

Tenez wrote:It's going to be tough for Nadal to increase his physique further. There are limits to what a body can do, with or without supplements. I think side effects would start to be difficult to control.

As convinced as I was last year that Djoko would do well in 2011, I am pretting sure Nadal will find it tougher from now on.

do you think he can do anything to change his game, the only thing that comes to my mind is work on his serve a bit, I don't know if/how one improves the serve. It's always been very intuitive for me.

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:It's going to be tough for Nadal to increase his physique further. There are limits to what a body can do, with or without supplements. I think side effects would start to be difficult to control.

As convinced as I was last year that Djoko would do well in 2011, I am pretting sure Nadal will find it tougher from now on.

do you think he can do anything to change his game, the only thing that comes to my mind is work on his serve a bit, I don't know if/how one improves the serve. It's always been very intuitive for me.

Maybe he can upgrade his backhand. This year Djokovic has exposed it as a real liability, especially when the rally goes on and on. Lots of his errors on that wing seem to be shots that sail long, like the backhand he hit on MP in the Wimbledon final. I have a double handed backhand and I sometimes hit those kind of errors too, when I do it's usually because my left arm (im right handed) is not used enough as the dominant arm during the shot. So it looks to me like a problem that could be addressed quite simply, Nadal should make his right arm more dominant during his swing. Although maybe thats not the only problem.

6-4 6-4 down and saying he could have won and he was at the same level and was in control of the match wasn't right really, need to respect your opponent. He was perhaps getting on to something by saying you don't need to play your absolute best and paint the lines and barely miss a shot to beat him on clay and that he was not as unbeatable as thought, but come on, took him 5 years to beat him on clay.

That match was their first meeting on clay, Nadal 1 Djokovic 0.
Nadal then won the next eight!! Nadal 9 Djokovic 0.
Djokovic then pulled two back so the current head to head is 9-2. In the slam, RG, it's 3-0. So this is really set up for 2012 at RG. I would shout a bit more after he wins that.

Henman Bill wrote:6-4 6-4 down and saying he could have won and he was at the same level and was in control of the match wasn't right really, need to respect your opponent. He was perhaps getting on to something by saying you don't need to play your absolute best and paint the lines and barely miss a shot to beat him on clay and that he was not as unbeatable as thought, but come on, took him 5 years to beat him on clay.

That match was their first meeting on clay, Nadal 1 Djokovic 0.
Nadal then won the next eight!! Nadal 9 Djokovic 0.
Djokovic then pulled two back so the current head to head is 9-2. In the slam, RG, it's 3-0. So this is really set up for 2012 at RG. I would shout a bit more after he wins that.

I see it differently.
As a player you know if you can beat your opponent or not. Especially if it's close, and their matches have been very close, despite the scoreline.
Once you do beat someone your confidence starts building, but prior to that there's belief. Nole had that belief, and you can't have belief if you don't have the goods.

Chydremion wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:It's going to be tough for Nadal to increase his physique further. There are limits to what a body can do, with or without supplements. I think side effects would start to be difficult to control.

As convinced as I was last year that Djoko would do well in 2011, I am pretting sure Nadal will find it tougher from now on.

do you think he can do anything to change his game, the only thing that comes to my mind is work on his serve a bit, I don't know if/how one improves the serve. It's always been very intuitive for me.

Maybe he can upgrade his backhand. This year Djokovic has exposed it as a real liability, especially when the rally goes on and on. Lots of his errors on that wing seem to be shots that sail long, like the backhand he hit on MP in the Wimbledon final. I have a double handed backhand and I sometimes hit those kind of errors too, when I do it's usually because my left arm (im right handed) is not used enough as the dominant arm during the shot. So it looks to me like a problem that could be addressed quite simply, Nadal should make his right arm more dominant during his swing. Although maybe thats not the only problem.

How would all that work bearing in mind that Nadal is not a natural lefty?

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:It's going to be tough for Nadal to increase his physique further. There are limits to what a body can do, with or without supplements. I think side effects would start to be difficult to control.

As convinced as I was last year that Djoko would do well in 2011, I am pretting sure Nadal will find it tougher from now on.

do you think he can do anything to change his game, the only thing that comes to my mind is work on his serve a bit, I don't know if/how one improves the serve. It's always been very intuitive for me.

Yes the serve is certainly a possibility. But the only thing is that a flatter serve is a riskier one and that means he may end up with more 2nd serve than he would like to. I am pretty sure he cannot change the rest of his game. Taking the ball earlier, being more agressive will make him more vulnerable cause he will then have to fight with teh same weapons as everybody else so it won;t make him as unique as he was. It was his unique style (loopy ball) that made him so difficult to play in the past cause no one was used to it those balls. There was no practice to get used to. However, teh rest of the field is learning. Even Federer times those loopy shots better nowadays than he did when Nadal first arrived.

Chydremion wrote:Maybe he can upgrade his backhand. This year Djokovic has exposed it as a real liability, especially when the rally goes on and on. Lots of his errors on that wing seem to be shots that sail long, like the backhand he hit on MP in the Wimbledon final.

Good point. His BH is either very loopy and toothless DTL or flat and pacy cross court but then riskier with a few UEs cripping in. He knows that his CC BH has to hurt cause if it doesn;t it give his opponent (usually a RH) the advantage. In fact he has the same tactic on his FH. He hits many CC FH which can don't hurt but are difficult to attack and hits rarely DTL but when he does it's to hurt or even finish a point. In short he is very cautious of hitting to his opponents strength and this is why he has kept hammering the BH of all his opponents since his came on tour and only deliver on his opponents' FH to hurt or to kill.

In order to improve his BH, he'd need to hit flatter DTL but again that is risky and not very rewarding nowadays.

The sole improvement I can think of is hitting harder, as loopy but longer from his FH. Tough job when one knows the kind of energy that requires.

Henman Bill wrote:6-4 6-4 down and saying he could have won and he was at the same level and was in control of the match wasn't right really, need to respect your opponent. He was perhaps getting on to something by saying you don't need to play your absolute best and paint the lines and barely miss a shot to beat him on clay and that he was not as unbeatable as thought, but come on, took him 5 years to beat him on clay.

Yes but he understood then how to beat him. That I think was an impression that probably surprised him. And like many he felt he could beat nadal but just failed by the narrow margins. How many players have had that feeling? plenty actually if you look at all the close matches Nadal had in his career. Even someone as mentally weak as PHM felt he could beat Nadal. Federer even felt it was very easy in 2006, taking a few sets from him on clay 61. I think Nole can be forgiven for thinking and saying that, especially at that age. He could feel already then that the match was in his racquet more than on Nadal's.

Sure it took him 5 years to beat Nadal, but he was close so many times before. Like all his peers, he just lacked fitnes. But not the fitness which allows you to rally longer, a fitness that gives you confidence and composure of when to attack....as opposed of being rushed to attack cause you know you cannot outlast your opponent.

In tennis knowing you can outlast your opponent is probably the biggest weapon nowadays.

I think the key for Nadal has to be his serve, because that's the only way he can release his forehand and have any chance of dictating a point, regardless of how hard he hits the forehand.
Nadal's whole game revolves around "playing aggressive with his forehand", and I watched him recently in DC against Monaco, that's what it's all about. There are several players he can't beat like that any more, I reckon even a fit Murray's got his number now in best of 3.

noleisthebest wrote:

Chydremion wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

Tenez wrote:It's going to be tough for Nadal to increase his physique further. There are limits to what a body can do, with or without supplements. I think side effects would start to be difficult to control.

As convinced as I was last year that Djoko would do well in 2011, I am pretting sure Nadal will find it tougher from now on.

do you think he can do anything to change his game, the only thing that comes to my mind is work on his serve a bit, I don't know if/how one improves the serve. It's always been very intuitive for me.

Maybe he can upgrade his backhand. This year Djokovic has exposed it as a real liability, especially when the rally goes on and on. Lots of his errors on that wing seem to be shots that sail long, like the backhand he hit on MP in the Wimbledon final. I have a double handed backhand and I sometimes hit those kind of errors too, when I do it's usually because my left arm (im right handed) is not used enough as the dominant arm during the shot. So it looks to me like a problem that could be addressed quite simply, Nadal should make his right arm more dominant during his swing. Although maybe thats not the only problem.

How would all that work bearing in mind that Nadal is not a natural lefty?

Well, because he's a natural right hander you wouldnt expect him to have problems making that right arm dominant in his backhand swing. Maybe I need to explain a bit better in case there are guys who dont know much about backhand technique (dont want to insult you, only being helpful). Technique-wise a right hander doubleH backhand is similar to a lefty forehand, but with the right arm used to support. So the left arm should be the dominant arm and do most of the swing, while the right arm is supportive, not really to add power, but more control (I lack the coordination to hit a lefty forehand, thats why that right arm is very useful). My DHBH is my best shot, which seems to be quite rare for amateurs, my coach even asked one day if I used to be left handed in the past lol.

Now because Nadal is a lefty, the right arm should be dominant, with the left one supporting. As he is a natural righthander that shouldnt be that much of a problem? But maybe he is used to use that left arm very much (because of hitting all those forehands) and makes it the dominant arm in his backhand swing, a technical error.

When I tried DBH,my right hand was completely the dominant one, although I only tried to play DBH once or tiwce, I play SBH.
I can't get my head around how it must feel for a natural lefty to play like right-handed.
Federer said once Nadal feels like playing somebody with two forehands, which obviously means that Nadal uses his right hand in his backhand a lot already.



.

noleisthebest wrote:
Federer said once Nadal feels like playing somebody with two forehands, which obviously means that Nadal uses his right hand in his backhand a lot already.
.

I know Fed said that but I think he only meant it because at the beginning of his career Nadal had a much weaker BH and was not hitting his CC BH that hard. It the improvement of that weaker side that prompted the comment from Fed.

Nadal FH has always been so superior to his BH than Nadal woudl be the last person I woudl think of as having 2 FHs.

I agree. Forehand is such a natural attacking shot, that Nadal can't have ever had "2 forehands", it's amazing how average his BH actually is.I thnk it could be the fact that he is a fabricated leftiy.
I studied a bit of neurolinguistics and know that you can just switch wires in the brain like that.

noleisthebest wrote:I thnk it could be the fact that he is a fabricated leftiy.

You know my view on this. He is a fabricated player. Full stop. Even his FH is fabricated and doesn;t look very smooth and flowing. It;s however extremely powerful and that is what makes it particularly difficult to handle. In fact it makes it difficult to attack but his number of winners/FH is actually pretty low, essentially cause his FH is designed to be safe more than being penetrating.

Probably we have not seen the end of their rivalries yet. No denying that Djokovic had amazing success against Nadal, and in doing so, seems to have pushed his body to its limits. Nadal could yet turn it around next year because Nadal has proven it in the past that he can play at 'that' level consistently. Question is Can Djoko do it? Only 2012 will tell. So lets hold on to the last laugh for now

"Question is Can Djoko do it? "

Plenty of people ask that and ever time I see that question I never fail to be amazed at people's willingness to ignore the fact that Novak has been consistent for the last 4 years.
2011 didn't just come of of the blue.

So the answer to your question is: of course he can do it.

"Even his FH is fabricated "

why "even" , that forehand is probably the most fabricated and unnatural shot in the history of tennis...that Tony guy is just one strange bloke...hope he doesn't get to coach anyone else...

noleisthebest wrote:
So the answer to your question is: of course he can do it.

Is game is certainly much less taxing than Nadal's so I think there is a lot of wishful thinking when people question his ability to stay at the top for longer than Nadal.

However the question will be how teh rest of the field catch up with him. Again, I think they are not that far behind. But Nadal is teh less likely to catch up, me thinks. 9 losses in the last 11 encounters with only 2 very arguable wins for Nadal...doesn't bode well for the spaniard.

"Again, I think they are not that far behind. "

No, they are not, which makes the tour absolutely fascinating at the moment.
I was actually thinking about writing an article about Murray and Tsonga this morning.
I think that Tsonga has closed the gap and could even be in a slight advantage as he carries less pressure than Murray.
The differences at the top are slight and I think it's the stamina as well as desire that decide in 2012.

noleisthebest wrote:The differences at the top are slight and I think it's the stamina as well as desire that decide in 2012.

Yes stamina certainly and more so, being able to reproduce that consistency and stamina 7 matches in a row.

I agree that Tsonga coudl be one to watch...not for consistent results but for big uspset. I just wish he was standing closer to the baseline.

"I just wish he was standing closer to the baseline. "

Tsonga lacks belief. I shudder to think where he'd be with Nole's faith.

noleisthebest wrote:"I just wish he was standing closer to the baseline. "

Tsonga lacks belief. I shudder to think where he'd be with Nole's faith.

Yes..like most French players. Standing way too far back.

But I think Tsonga is a typical late boomer peak wise. And if confident, he coudl be difficult to stop.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:"I just wish he was standing closer to the baseline. "

Tsonga lacks belief. I shudder to think where he'd be with Nole's faith.

Yes..like most French players. Standing way too far back.

But I think Tsonga is a typical late boomer peak wise. And if confident, he coudl be difficult to stop.

I hope you are an honourable exception, Tenez

noleisthebest wrote:"Question is Can Djoko do it? "

Plenty of people ask that and ever time I see that question I never fail to be amazed at people's willingness to ignore the fact that Novak has been consistent for the last 4 years.
2011 didn't just come of of the blue.

So the answer to your question is: of course he can do it.

The consistency that you refer to prior to 2011 was there, but at a level below that of the top dawgs i.e. FEDAL. 2011 was a different story of course. All I am saying is Djokovic had to play at superhuman level entire year to beat RAFA, and good for him (Djokovic) that he did! As a Djoko fan, of course you should be celebrating and hoping that he repeats his 2011 achievements in the future. But to claim that Djokovic has had the last laugh is probably a little premature because we DO NOT yet know that Djokovic can "do it" again in 2012. Rafa will most likely play with the same intensity that he has been doing over the years, but Djokovic has only done it in 2011. So all I am saying is Rafa may come back and beat Djokovic next year. Is that so unreasonable?

No, it's perfectly reasonable - and welcome to the forum by the way.

Can Djokovic do it again in 2012? Sure. Will he? Well, that's one of the many things to look forward to. The facts are that he has done it once (a multi-slam season) and it is for him to prove that this is the rule, rather than the exception to it. Of course, when Federer first did it we could have asked the same questions, and look how that turned out! I don't think it's a given though, and well worth posing the question.

Djoko could have a really good year but still not reach the heights of 2011 as it was such a remarkable 12 months. Reckon he'll at least win a slam in 2012 which, for most players, would constitute a good year.
As for Tsonga - an enomous talent, charismatic, practically unplayable when on top of his game. BUT, not consistent enough to be a top four player. Likely - as we saw in recent encounters with Fed - to chuck in a horror game when looking unstoppable. Top 10? - yes. Top Four? - no.
Unless there are serious injuries, I predict no change in the top four in 2012 apart from positions within that top four. The only one of them I would rule out for number one in 2012 is, sadly, Murray. Just can't see him doing it. Hope I'm wrong.