Andre Ward (Spoilers)

Good morning 606'ers

After watching the fight at the weekend, and having watched Andre Ward closely over the past 2 and a half years, I honestly don't see why he's so unrecognised in boxing by the American public. From what I saw, the venue they fought at was almost empty past the floor and although he has proven himself to be a class act - the public just don't warm to him. He's a very humble guy outside of naming himself "S.O.G" - and I believe this is his downfall, and yet could be his biggest selling point in the future.

Firstly, I'll go over his boxing skills. He is very skilled indeed. He is a counter puncher, but as he moves forward he forces mistakes rather than waits for them. I knew his jab was good, he utilised it well against Miranda (I was lucky enough to speak to his trainer afterwards who admitted Miranda was a step up in class from his other opponents and he was pleased with the way Andre handled a rather dirty fighter) and it was from there I started noticing that this guy could be something special. He then went on to beat a fellow American Shelby Putwill (didn't see the fight, but I believe it was a TKO early) so I thought he was going to go for the softer options until an easy title match came along. He then took on Mikkel Kessler and showed where he belongs. His Olympic pedigree shone through, he was landing on Kessler where Froch and most others couldn't - his speed was unbelievable and he started utilising a great jab. He is very strong on the inside too, and he's not even a big guy for the weight, but he was pushing Kessler around on the inside, and showed that he had a plan. Yes - this can be seen as dirty fighting, but tucking your head as you go inside isn't seen as a foul, his body did follow, usually when a fighter does this, its with the intention of swaying, or springing on the inside, Ward doesn't do that, he leads with his head to the inside, although risky against incoming left hooks - he did this against Kessler with such speed and accuracy, Kessler couldn't deal with it and was stepping into the zone where he was being picked apart - then on the outside, Ward was peppering him all night with frightening speed. There just was no answer, and Kessler is a top quality boxer even now. My biggest criticism is that he did this at home, and although he doesn't know what its like to fight outside of America really - and Kessler came to him (critism of the Super 6 is that somehow he's managed to stay at home through the tournament) he took a leap against a world class opponent and made him look very ordinary.

His skills were displayed further against Abraham - who notoriously has a very tight defense, and although it took him a few rounds, he eventually started landing with good attractive shots, winning rounds taking him back to his amateur days.

Then obviously he was a different class against Froch, utilising speed and showing that he's capable inside aswell as outside. He didn't use his head, and as Froch said in the post-fight interview, he's very slippery, good at getting in and rolling with punches - its boxing, you're allowed to do that.

My assessment of Ward is that he is adaptive, strong and very fast. He does show that he tires late on - so the way he's going to lose if ever is that someone has matched him for workrate and has refused to allow him inside, or to box on the outside. They need to negate that jab, I can see a southpaw puncher being the only way that Ward can be beaten.

His character isn't that of the Mayweathers and other box office stars. Mayweather has an arrogance in the ring, the people who he boxes want to hit him, they want to hurt him. Ward is just too damn likeable. He doesn't box in a fashion that excites people who don't appreciate his technique. De La Hoya was a very attractive boxer to watch, his skills were silky and Oscar himself is a very confident guy. Ward has too much respect for others to trash talk, he also doesn't go out to hurt or humiliate people. Thats what Pacquiao's draw is. All action, all of the time. Ward ain't that either.

The S.O.G thing needs to be expanded upon. He needs a PR company to take hold of his image, build him up to be this super arrogant cocky guy, who's dared to call himself the Son of God, who's cleaned up the SMW division and is bored and looking for a challenge. Really make out like he's just too good, the American public love a guy like that. They love to hate him. Then he can watch the fights line themselves up. I can see him going to Denmark and pulling Kessler apart again, putting those doubts to rest. Going to Canada and teaching Bute what it means to be a champion, unify the division and then move up. The minute he gets to LHW, its gonna be the Roy Jones Jr effect.

I just hope he doesn't do what I think he may and fight the people that the WBA and WBC put infront of him. He should go out actively looking for fights to raise his stock and change his personality.

Don't think it is an ability thing with Ward, he is just a bit dull to watch. I watched the fight Saturday night and whilst I thought he won clearly and was impressive at no point during the fight or since have I thought I wonder who he will fight next or I can't wait to see him in action again, he just doesn't really inspire. Easier to admire than love would be how I would sum him up.

I agree with that point, I think he needs a bad guy image, he can't really play "the saviour" of the division - but he needs to get some media interest in himself.

Spot on, Jeff. A very, very skilled fighter and incredibly awkward, but not one that will have much of a career highlight reel.

Excellent article JM

I see very similarities between Mayweather and Ward in terms of boxing skills and personalities (bear with me here). When Floyd turned pro, he was humble, gracious and with a million dollar smile. But unfortunately for him the million dollars didn't come. He played the game, said the right things, smiled at the right people and was what most here want a boxer to be,

But he recognised that to get the million dollars he needed to sell something else, hence his change of character to this rap, blind hood rat he comes across as. It is a marketting ploy designed to bring out like and dislike in equal measure, but primarily to ensure that he is noticed and that people will pay to see him get beat. At least they pay.

Ward needs to develop a personality. Get rid of the humble carp as it doesn't sell. Floyd doesn't have the style to please crowds. Neither does Ward. Boxing purists will appreciate Ward but he wants mass market appeal in order to get the money his talents deserve.

Take the low road and act as an insane nutter. The SOG may sell in america but so does trash. And trash pays the bills.

JabMachine wrote:I agree with that point, I think he needs a bad guy image, he can't really play "the saviour" of the division - but he needs to get some media interest in himself.

I don't think it is anything to do with that, JM.

Firstly, that's just not him. People would dislike him more if he suddenly became a loudmouth clown.

Secondly, being a bad guy has nothing to do with popularity. Manny Pacquiao being exhibit A. Fighting style is more important, and that is where Ward falls down - his style just isn't easy on the eye.

The 'slave money' issue was the launch pad of his change of character. Plus he teamed up with a rap mogul (Mark Prince I think).

Fist its not an issue of being liked or disliked. Its about him getting the money his talents deserve. But he needs a personality.

Yeah I think in a few years people will be watching more to see if he can be beaten rather that because he puts them on the edge of their seats

Does someone with a lot of talent but a boring style deserve a lot of money? No, not in my mind. Boxing is in the entertainment business, like it or not, and if fans aren't entertained by a fighter then they won't make it massive, simple as that.

Thanks for the praise Az, appreciated

I think Floyd is now a very watchable boxer, he was unreal against Mosely. I thought he performed admirably, and went forward for the first time in a while. Usually he's a counter puncher, going off the back foot but he went forward in that fight and did very very well. In his fights since, i see the other boxer change, try to hurt him, outbox him, get inside, try to box outside and its all because Floyd has the answer. I watch him now with interest because i think "whats going on up there, how is he changing his gameplan and still winning so easily?"

Agree with the insane nutter thing - that could run.

Jeff, theres the possibility that people will hate him, but we saw on Sunday morning that no matter how tough the guy, or how mean he is, Ward can stand up against that. Like with mayweather, if he can get fights against guys with an attractive style then he's going to make the fight good to watch. I want Mayweather to lose. If Ward became an arrogant, horrible man - I'd want him to lose too. I'd cheer his opposition, and buy the fight. I'd then be in awe of that technical ability. Honestly, do you feel that as a spectacle that mayweathers fights are so good because of his all action style? He doesn't do that, he's just good to watch because his opposition are so out of his league. That makes him watchable.

FoF - Manny could quite easily be a bad guy and gain more fans. Remember the "Mexikiller"?

Fists of Fury wrote:Does someone with a lot of talent but a boring style deserve a lot of money? No, not in my mind. Boxing is in the entertainment business, like it or not, and if fans aren't entertained by a fighter then they won't make it massive, simple as that.

Hopkins and Floyd seem to disprove that. Since his move up in weights Floyd has been seriously boring. All the skill in the world but to me very boring. As for Hoppo, spoiler extrodinairre. But they get paid big bucks because of their personalities.

azania wrote:Fist its not an issue of being liked or disliked. Its about him getting the money his talents deserve. But he needs a personality.

I think I read somewhere that he has been quite cute with some investments already so hopefully he will not go down the tired old route of making all his money, blowing it all and then fighting on well past his prime like a certain other SMW champion.

I hope he has invested wisely and continues to do so, meaning he doesn't have to be someone he isn't just to put some bums on seats. Then he can just be appreciated for his talent which he clearly has in abundence.

Lord knows there are enough ignorant, idiotic loudmouths in the business already.

Carry on as was

Think the distinction between Floyd and Ward is even if you are of the opinion that Floyd is boring as a fighter his style is far easier on the eye than that of Ward, whilst Floyd is fluid and smooth, Ward is all jerky and awkward, albeit effective.

Ward will find his style becoming more polished - its still very early in his career considering. I'd say within another 5, 6 fights he'll develop a style similar to that of Mayweather.

To be honest, I've almost always found Floyd an exciting fighter, he comes forward more when he feels comfortable at a weight division. Watch how aggressive he was against the likes of N'Dou, Gatti and whatnot. He was aggressive against Marquez, Mosley and Ortiz (The latter were like almost 20 pounds heavier than him on the night.

It just seems that when he's just moved a weight division he isn't as aggressive and he doesn't want to take risks being like that. Like the DLH fight in his venture up to LMW with him becoming more aggressive towards the end of the fight.

Do hope you're right mate, is a shame to see someone of such obvious talent manage to be so difficult to enjoy.

rowley wrote:Do hope you're right mate, is a shame to see someone of such obvious talent manage to be so difficult to enjoy.

Speaking from personal experience jeff?

if he keeps beating the calibare of opponents he's beat so far the he will get the recognition he deserves, there is bute and the other champion to beat yet, so the money fights will come. this torument will propably boosted his reputation too. i dont like seeing boxers act up to a false persona, its not wwf its boxing, do the talking inside the ring- otherwise you end up like haye with egg on your face and been disliked and embarresed when you retire, instead of been celebrated and recognised for your acheivements (how often his his cruiserweight record talked about)

Its not a bad shout that, but Haye went too far. SMW is a great division with a lot of talent, and can get some big interest - cruiserweight won't ever generate that type of interest.

Haye trash talks opponents like in WWE, Mayweather just has an air of arrogance that sells tickets.

eddyfightfan wrote:if he keeps beating the calibare of opponents he's beat so far the he will get the recognition he deserves, there is bute and the other champion to beat yet, so the money fights will come. this torument will propably boosted his reputation too. i dont like seeing boxers act up to a false persona, its not wwf its boxing, do the talking inside the ring- otherwise you end up like haye with egg on your face and been disliked and embarresed when you retire, instead of been celebrated and recognised for your acheivements (how often his his cruiserweight record talked about)

That's because you're a boxing fan. How many times did Eubank stink out joints? It was his personality that enabled him to cross over and get mass market appeal. Take Naz for example. Without the glitz he would stil l be an exciting fighter, but in no way would he have made it big without the glitz he brought to fights.

Boxing needs its champs to be larger than life to compete for TV time with other sports (as long as they continue winning).

im not a mayweather fan, i prefer the come forward style of people like pacquiao, and there personalitys rarely come into it. i can see why it sells, thats exactly why wwf do it, but and the end of day the 2 things that persuade me to tune in style and level of opponent.

az i see what you mean, give me an episode of mayweather 24/7 over khan for instance, but thats just a hook, if the fight is poor then casual fan wont watch. mayweather is a bad example because he is a master class to watch, but not every one is as affective at that type of style.

Fists of Fury wrote:Does someone with a lot of talent but a boring style deserve a lot of money? No, not in my mind. Boxing is in the entertainment business, like it or not, and if fans aren't entertained by a fighter then they won't make it massive, simple as that.

Dont understand that point of view at all. Ward is a class act in the ring, decent guy outside it. Hes worked incredibly hard and taken alot of risks in a very tough sport. He deserves to make alot of money that his talent and hard work have earned.

i think haye is very talented, probably still a top heavy minus the k bros. and he did have his funny moments (wlads borat impressions was funny). the problem is he went to far, had he been humble and a gentleman through his career i think he would have been given more credit

eddyfightfan wrote:i think haye is very talented, probably still a top heavy minus the k bros. and he did have his funny moments (wlads borat impressions was funny). the problem is he went to far, had he been humble and a gentleman through his career i think he would have been given more credit

Thats the thing. He may have been given more credit, but his bank manager wont be so pleased as he is now. He had to see the fight and being humble doesn't really sell. I reckon many bought the fight to see Haye get sparked. The bottom line is that they paid to see it. Its a business at the end of the day.

but ultimatly people like winners, nice or bad or even boring (the klitchskos have a loyal solid fan base)

I don't think he has a boring style, its just he wins easy so it looks boring..

Any fight where one guy is always in control is going to be dull..

Same with the Ks, they are only dull because the fights always go how they like them too, and there is no battle.

Aesthetically Floyd is much better to watch than Ward in my opinion. It's very clear to see what Floyd is doing. His moves are all clearly articulated for the viewer and judge.

A lot of what Ward does well is at close quarters and is obscured. He is a throwback to the early days of boxing in that he like to grapple. The way he pushed Froch around and bullied him even though he was the smaller man showed a lot of skill. Tying Froch up in knots and not letting him throw a punch on the inside was impressive.

Like I said I don't see the comparison with Mayweather, Hopkins is a closer comparison in terms of spoiling but Ward is different to Hopkins as well.

As we know Hopkins has had trouble selling PPV in the past such is his style. I see Ward having even greater difficulty selling himself. Outside the ring Ward seems a nice guy but that won't be enough, he just isn't exciting enough inside it.

The comparisons I would draw between Mayweather and Ward wuld be in relation to their versatility, all round game and adaptability. There arent too many other fighters out there with such a complete set of talents. And they have plans B and C to fall back on or utilise if neccessary.

Stylewise Ward is much more physical than Mayweather. But its because hes so good at it. He basically bullied guys like Froch, Abraham and Kessler because he could. But he was also able to beat them on the outside so if one of them did end up being a match for him up close I think he could simply adjust to fight them on them outside with success.

As for his ppv attraction. I think its hard to say. Hes really only come into his own now by winning the Super 6 and firmly establishing himself as a top pound for pound fighter. Boxing will always look to create stars so if he continues to win and with guys like Martinez, Mayweather, Pacquiao and Marquez all ageing and closing in on retirement over the next couple of years. I doubt he will ever reach the dizzying heights of the popularity stakes but I would expect interest in him to grow.

Sound like people want him to become a wrestler lol. Ward is a boring fighter that is his style and people want to see exciting fighters mostly it does not matter if you put an act outside the ring if you are boring inside then people will not watch just ask the Klichkos who have to be the most boring fighters in the world.

eddyfightfan wrote:but ultimatly people like winners, nice or bad or even boring (the klitchskos have a loyal solid fan base)

It seems all german based world champs have a large fan base. Look no further than Ottke. Whenever he threw a jab, they screamed even when the jab missed.