Ward moved in Ring Magazine p4p ratings

Andre ward has now moved to the number 5 spot in the Ring Magazine p4p ratings, above Juan Manuel Marquez.

Personally I think this is incredibly harsh on Marquez (Not just because he is my favourite fighter). He beat the p4p king Manny Pacquiao and got robbed by the judges, what hasn't Marquez done to keep his place?

He never ducks anyone and took Manny at his fighting weight, which is 2 divisions higher than his own fighting weight.

Thoughts?

New ratings:

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Floyd Mayweather
3. Sergio Martinez
4. Nonito Donaire
5. Andre Ward
6. Juan Manuel Marquez
7. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
9. Timothy Bradley
10. Vitali Klitschko

Harsh, I feel. I'd have moved Ward to 7, behind JMM and Wlad.

Not sure about the order and would have Hopkins instead of Bradley. No way does Ward deserve to be above the Klitschkos or Wonjongkam they have dominated their divisions.

I would put him in at 9 or 10 for just now.

Here's how I see it.

1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Nonito Donaire
5. Sergio Martinez
6. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
7. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Vitali Klitschko
9. Bernard Hopkins
10. Andre Ward

prettyboykev wrote:Here's how I see it.

1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Nonito Donaire
5. Sergio Martinez
6. Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
7. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Vitali Klitschko
9. Bernard Hopkins
10. Andre Ward

im not sure how id have mine, but it wouldnt be too far off that.

By your reasoning though, assuming JMM should have got the nod vs pacquiao, mayweather would be #1. The fact of the matter is, Manny won. We may not like it or may not agree with it but on the record he has the W. You can't mark someone up on opinion alone.

My P4P rating are as follows:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Floyd Mayweather
3. Sergio Martinez
4. Nonito Donaire
5. Andre Ward
6. Juan Manuel Marquez
7. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Timothy Bradley
9. Yuriorkis Gamboa
10. Vitali Klitschko

Wonjonkam doesn't fight enough high quality opposition as the others do imo so he misses out. He hasn't fought any challenge since kameda and that was over a year ago. The top 4 is set in stone, thats most peoples opinion.

Looking at wards and marquez last opponents i put ward above juan. UD losses to manny, floyd, and overmatched ramos, Ko wins over diaz and katsidis versus comfortable wins over kessler, green, bika, abraham and ward.

Gamboa also deserves recognition, he has disposed of top competitor in salido, solis and de leon. Bradley is also a little lucky as he hasn't done much recently but beating alexander was a good win on paper

prettyboykev wrote:Not sure about the order and would have Hopkins instead of Bradley. No way does Ward deserve to be above the Klitschkos or Wonjongkam they have dominated their divisions.

Ward is dominant in a relatively strong division. Personally I dont see Martinez as the 3rd best fighter. I'd have JMM as 3 with Donaire at 2 with Pac 4 (after all JMM beat Pac in the eyes of all but 3 people).

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:By your reasoning though, assuming JMM should have got the nod vs pacquiao, mayweather would be #1. The fact of the matter is, Manny won. We may not like it or may not agree with it but on the record he has the W. You can't mark someone up on opinion alone.

My P4P rating are as follows:
1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Floyd Mayweather
3. Sergio Martinez
4. Nonito Donaire
5. Andre Ward
6. Juan Manuel Marquez
7. Wladimir Klitschko
8. Timothy Bradley
9. Yuriorkis Gamboa
10. Vitali Klitschko

Wonjonkam doesn't fight enough high quality opposition as the others do imo so he misses out. He hasn't fought any challenge since kameda and that was over a year ago. The top 4 is set in stone, thats most peoples opinion.

Looking at wards and marquez last opponents i put ward above juan. UD losses to manny, floyd, and overmatched ramos, Ko wins over diaz and katsidis versus comfortable wins over kessler, green, bika, abraham and ward.

Gamboa also deserves recognition, he has disposed of top competitor in salido, solis and de leon. Bradley is also a little lucky as he hasn't done much recently but beating alexander was a good win on paper

In the last 2 years he's beat Kameda and Sosa very good opposition. Martinez and Marquez don't have they sort of wins on there record in the same time frame.

Not sure that Martinez is really good value for that number three spot, as I said on a different thread yesterday. To me, the top four simply has to be Mayweather, Pacquiao, Marquez and Donaire. Ward and Martinez can be switched any way you like, I'd have thought.

My top 5

Floyd
Donaire
JMM
Paq
Ward/Wlad

You're being silly now Az. Pacquiao has to be inside the top two, the ratings aren't based on your last fight only.

Fists of Fury wrote:You're being silly now Az. Pacquiao has to be inside the top two, the ratings aren't based on your last fight only.

I had Pac at 2 up until the JMM fight which I and most others believe he lost. Therefore why does he have to be in the top 2? Had the judges scored it correctly, there wouldn't be any argument.

Ward certainly deserves his place now in the top ten, his resume is slowly starting to match his talent

Az, a solitary close defeat from someone that hasn't lost in umpteen years does not automatically mean they drop down the rankings like a stone, especially when that fighter was a fellow P4P ranked man.

And anyway, he won, whether you like it or not that is what the records say.

I hate these pound for pound rankings, they're given far too much importance these days, and would rather they just didn't exist.

Az if JMM beat Pac and deserves to be above him how can you put him behind Donaire?

I would have imagined The Ring would have seen the Pacquiao/JMM fight as it should have been - a victory for JMM. I feel that POUND FOR POUND by very definition has lost its way.

That said;

1) Floyd Mayweather - undefeated multi-weight world champion who's fights are rarely questionable at all.

2) JMM - Multi weight champion who did perform better than Pacquaio - therefore the better boxer in respect of pound for pound.

3) Sergio Martinez - Cracking boxer - moving up well through the weights, I'd be surprised if he doesn't go to SMW soon, carrying up his speed. I can dream. Shut up.

4) Manny Pacquiao - the guys achievements speak for themselves, but in his last 2 fights, he's seemed like he's just not got the heart anymore. JMM had him in their last fight and everyone knows it.

5) Wladimir Klitschko - its not just his size, the guy boxes superbly. From a fellow boxer, I can see just how talent he'd be even at lighter weights, its not about size with him, he really does have skills.

6) Nonito Donaire - while being an excellent boxer, he's only really impressed me in terms of being POUND FOR POUND one of the best fighters on the planet skill wise against Conception and Montiel. I don't feel his opposition have been awesome and the performances world class other than these two.

7) Andre Ward - I believe skill wise he's shown he can fight well. Its not about size and strength with him, he'd beat most at middleweight and most at LHW (maybe not Bhop) so I'd stick him in.

8) Bernard Hopkins - Impossible to leave him out, what a competitor, oldest boxer by a long stretch and still kicking ass. Middleweight, SMW and now LHW - he's an impressive POUND FOR POUND specimen

9) Vitali Klitschko - Perhaps size is an issue with the way he fights, but I have him beating Wlad, even though their resume's are somewhat different. I feel Vitali's losses and refusal to fight Wlad put him here, he's not accomplished as much on paper, although a winner in a fight between the two.

10) Gamboa - He's not stepped out of his division, and I find it difficult to attribute if he'd win against the top guys around him. Still phenomenal and worthy of a top 10, but only just.

Fists of Fury wrote:Az, a solitary close defeat from someone that hasn't lost in umpteen years does not automatically mean they drop down the rankings like a stone, especially when that fighter was a fellow P4P ranked man.

And anyway, he won, whether you like it or not that is what the records say.

I hate these pound for pound rankings, they're given far too much importance these days, and would rather they just didn't exist.

From 2nd to 4th is not dropping like a stone. When JMM lost to Floyd, he went down one place and another guy (Martinez I think) was put ahead of him. This time seeing as he 'lost' to JMM I dont see why he should be rated above JMM. And Donnaire has done nothing wrong to be dropped or remain stationary at 3.

Someone wake me up when these garbage rankings are abolished and we don't discuss them anymore.

The thing that bugs me about the P4P rankings is a lot of people ignore the lower weights so whats the point. I seen Sky on ringside a few weeks ago and they never had anyone below featherweight including Donaire.

Wonjongkam is a nailed on P4P top 10 fighter but a lot of people leave him out. The problem is they are to jumpy. There are guys in them who have a stellar career behind them but one loss or a poor performance and they can get moved down for a guy with a couple of good wins.

prettyboykev wrote:Az if JMM beat Pac and deserves to be above him how can you put him behind Donaire?

Fir me it was the manner of his defeat against Floyd. No shame in losing to floyd, but he lost every minute of every round and it counts against him. Donaire has displayed exceptional skills in his fights.

Fair enough mate as much as I don't agree with you at least you have resoning behind it. Better than because he's quality LOL!

prettyboykev wrote:Fair enough mate as much as I don't agree with you at least you have resoning behind it. Better than because he's quality LOL!

There's method behind my madness

It's only a silly list compiled by a bunch of American oldsters who tend to overrate American fighters. Don't worry about it.

I kind of agree with Fists that these lists are a bit pointless really. Everyone has different criteria. It was originally conceived to be just a list showing who you thought the best fighter in the world was. It seems to have become far more complicated since then.

If I had to quibble it would be Martinez too high. Ward should be above him. Hes gone out and been dominating his rivals and I thought he handled a tough world level fighter like Froch more impressively than Martinez did a fringe level guy like Barker. Wards competition and performances have been better lately so I would drop Martinez down. Pretty harsh on JMM who arguably put in one of the performances of his careers but ended up losing places.

I dont actually care for these "p4p" myths...as there seems to be no definded criteria, just opinion or popularity.

For example, anybody who puts manny above floyd at this point needs questioning, on a purely form basis, though I can accept at best they are even (for the pactards)

and how is Bradley anywhere near the top 10?? Surely Cotto, Hopkins, hell even Froch would be above him. He may have lost to ward, but on recent fights is there anyone who has fought elite level fight after fight?

These are pointless ratings, but for me here is mine:

1) Floyd,
2) MAnny
3) Ward - his abilty, unbeaten run and recent form puts im ahead of martinez for me
4) Martinez
5) JMM
6) Wlad K
7) Cotto
8) Donaire
9) Gamboa
10) Wonjongkam

Just can't have B-Hop in it after the Dawson fight to be honest.

I would doubt Hopkins at the age he is now is realistically one of the ten best fighters on the planet.

Also true.

manos de piedra wrote:I would doubt Hopkins at the age he is now is realistically one of the ten best fighters on the planet.

Maybe not Manos but nobody is really beating the names to knock him out of the top 10. Golden Boy and Top Rank are really damaging the sport.

prettyboykev wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:I would doubt Hopkins at the age he is now is realistically one of the ten best fighters on the planet.

Maybe not Manos but nobody is really beating the names to knock him out of the top 10. Golden Boy and Top Rank are really damaging the sport.

Surely Ward winning the S6 in dominating fashion is sufficient to rise above him?

manos de piedra wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:I would doubt Hopkins at the age he is now is realistically one of the ten best fighters on the planet.

Maybe not Manos but nobody is really beating the names to knock him out of the top 10. Golden Boy and Top Rank are really damaging the sport.

Surely Ward winning the S6 in dominating fashion is sufficient to rise above him?

It would put him above Hopkins no doubt but would that be enough to knock Hopkins out of the top 10? Then your looking at guys like Rios, Gamboa and Bute who just haven't been mixing it at the level Hopkins has.

prettyboykev wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:I would doubt Hopkins at the age he is now is realistically one of the ten best fighters on the planet.

Maybe not Manos but nobody is really beating the names to knock him out of the top 10. Golden Boy and Top Rank are really damaging the sport.

Surely Ward winning the S6 in dominating fashion is sufficient to rise above him?

It would put him above Hopkins no doubt but would that be enough to knock Hopkins out of the top 10? Then your looking at guys like Rios, Gamboa and Bute who just haven't been mixing it at the level Hopkins has.

Im not sure because really what Hopkins is going off is his win over Pascal. A fine win, but the feeling I get is hes getting the plaudits for it primarily because of the age he did it at rather than the victory itself. Pascal is good but not amazing in a reasonably weak division.

I see where your coming from in terms of other fighters need to do more to displace him but my feeling is these other guys coming through like Alvarez, Gamboa, Rios are all probably better now and guys like Bute and Bradley probably are aswell at this stage in their respective careers.

I tend to view it more as who I think is better at this point in time more than a kind of system of displacement where one guy has to displace another. On that basis I would be surprised if Hopkins was still one of the top ten fighters out there. Although its dependant on how you look at such things of course.

I tend to go on the level you are boxing at and how long you have been boxing at that level for. By my standards Hopkins gets in but I can see how many wouldn't have him in.

JabMachine wrote:I would have imagined The Ring would have seen the Pacquiao/JMM fight as it should have been - a victory for JMM. I feel that POUND FOR POUND by very definition has lost its way.

That said;

1) Floyd Mayweather - undefeated multi-weight world champion who's fights are rarely questionable at all.

2) JMM - Multi weight champion who did perform better than Pacquaio - therefore the better boxer in respect of pound for pound.

3) Sergio Martinez - Cracking boxer - moving up well through the weights, I'd be surprised if he doesn't go to SMW soon, carrying up his speed. I can dream. Shut up.

4) Manny Pacquiao - the guys achievements speak for themselves, but in his last 2 fights, he's seemed like he's just not got the heart anymore. JMM had him in their last fight and everyone knows it.

5) Wladimir Klitschko - its not just his size, the guy boxes superbly. From a fellow boxer, I can see just how talent he'd be even at lighter weights, its not about size with him, he really does have skills.

6) Nonito Donaire - while being an excellent boxer, he's only really impressed me in terms of being POUND FOR POUND one of the best fighters on the planet skill wise against Conception and Montiel. I don't feel his opposition have been awesome and the performances world class other than these two.

7) Andre Ward - I believe skill wise he's shown he can fight well. Its not about size and strength with him, he'd beat most at middleweight and most at LHW (maybe not Bhop) so I'd stick him in.

8) Bernard Hopkins - Impossible to leave him out, what a competitor, oldest boxer by a long stretch and still kicking ass. Middleweight, SMW and now LHW - he's an impressive POUND FOR POUND specimen

9) Vitali Klitschko - Perhaps size is an issue with the way he fights, but I have him beating Wlad, even though their resume's are somewhat different. I feel Vitali's losses and refusal to fight Wlad put him here, he's not accomplished as much on paper, although a winner in a fight between the two.

10) Gamboa - He's not stepped out of his division, and I find it difficult to attribute if he'd win against the top guys around him. Still phenomenal and worthy of a top 10, but only just.

As a 'fellow boxer'....

bet Mr Klitschko is glad to have the respect of his peers...

Snakeyman123 wrote:bet Mr Klitschko is glad to have the respect of his peers...

That's Dr Klitschko.

fearlessBamber wrote:

Snakeyman123 wrote:bet Mr Klitschko is glad to have the respect of his peers...

That's Dr Klitschko.

Thats Dr Steelhammer to you...

I think Bradley is lucky to be in there if you consider his lone fight for the year, and i also think JMM should be above Ward. JMM schooled Pac Man in my opinion, so i think for that and his fight with Katsidis he should stay above Ward. However, i will say that i consider Ward a future p4p king to be honest, the man let's face it, despite being a huge Froch fan, is gifted. And dedicated. A deadly combination.