Scarlets v Ospreys at Parc y Scarlets 26.12.11 KO 2:05pm

First topic message reminder :

A sell out crowd should provide the perfect atmosphere to what has the potential to be a very good, highly competative game of rugby.

Scarlets Team:: 15 Liam Williams, 14 George North, 13 Scott Williams, 12 Jon Davies, 11 Sean Lamont, 10 Rhys Priestland, 9 Gareth Davies, 1 Rhodri Jones, 2 Matthew Rees (capt), 3 Rhys Thomas, 4 Lou Reed, 5 Dominic Day, 6 Aaron Shingler, 7 Rob McCusker, 8 Ben Morgan.

Replacements: 16 Ken Owens, 17 Phil John, 18 Deacon Manu, 19 Sione Timani, 20 Johnathan Edwards, 21 Rhodri Williams, 22 Stephen Jones, 23 Iongi Viliame.

Key players that are still recovering from illness/injury such as Damien Welch and Iestyn Thomas not included, with the Scarlets mindful they only have a four day turnaround before another big match against the Dragons away on the 30th December.

Ospreys meanwhile have been hit hard by injury and suspension in their 2nd row position and will be without Ian Evans, AW Jones and I Gough. However a big shout out to Adam Jones who will be earning his 150th start for the Osprey's on Monday.

Ospreys team: 15 Barry Davies 14 Tommy Bowe 13 Andrew Bishop 12 Ashley Beck 11 Shane Williams 10 Dan Biggar 9 Kahn Fotuali'i 1 Paul James 2 Richard Hibbard 3 Adam Jones 4 James King 5 Jonathan Thomas 6 Ryan Jones 7 Justin Tipuric (Capt) 8 Joe Bearman

Replacements: 16 Mefin Davies 17 Ryan Bevington 18 Aaron Jarvis 19 Tom Smith 20 George Stowers 21 Rhys Webb 22 Matthew Morgan 23 Hanno Dirksen

How does everyone see this one going? After a hard fought draw at the Liberty earlier in the season, can either side get the upper hand on the other?

and they lose it. The Scarlets have won this regardless. no LBP and all because they were too bloody slow.

Watching Fotuali'i is like watching TOL in slow-mo....

Now the Ospreys are having to defend like mad, and Williams is pinged for not releasing. Scarlets kicking for the penalty and it goes wide. MOTM is Aaron Shingler.

FT 22 - 14

Well done Scarlets. It's been a while so a win for them today was inevitable somewhat.

Great ambition by the Scarlets, turn down the chance of a final try to miss an average kick

Chwarae teg - Scarlets deserving winners and at least I'll get some dinner tonight

Penfro! Mrs Penfro will be a good mood now then!

Can someone remind Jiffy and Quinnell about the regionalisation of Welsh rugby...?

would have been dry bread and water for me, at least we are not

Which Quinnell Cari ? I've not seen or heard him

PenfroPete wrote: would have been dry bread and water for me, at least we are not

Which Quinnell Cari ? I've not seen or heard him

I meant Scott Gibbs, I've got Quinnell on the brain for some reason...

Just a reminder that Leinstuuurrr v Ulstuuurrr is on BBC 2 NI and 5:25 and the BBC Sport web site

Cheers P. I'll be watching it online - I don't think it's on the Red Button here

Fotuali'i is a

Worse than Mike Phillips for just standing there like a fool and watching the ball.

And Biggar.

What a player. No one kicks the ball away so readily. He's setting new standards for flyhalf play. Let's hope Gatland picks him for Wales and he starts every game.

Yep, we lost that game at 9 and 10 today .....very disappointing

Webb + Morgan next.

Quick ball from the ruck and lots of running.

The grey, uninspiring sky reflected a match at stalemate for a significant portion of the first half. However the Scarlets were treating this as a cup match and accumulated three penalties and a converted close range try in the first period. The stuttering Ospreys put themselves under the pressure that lead to Rhys Thomas' flop over the line. The seemingly disinterested Bowe also butchered a try scoring chance. Not that the Scarlets were immune, a three on one was lain waste by an unnecessary missed pass. As part of their counter early in the second half the Ospreys managed to slaughter an 8 on 1 overlap before, finally, Barry Davies sqeaked into the corner. The comeback was short lived. The Scarlets pushed out to an 8 point lead as the Ospreys were weakened from the bench. Inexplicably Kahn Fotolu'i was not one of those replaced despite a string of errors, poor and slow service and a failure to spark the Ospreys to turn late pressure into points which would have earned a losing bonus point.

Am just managing to sit down to this game now. Wot happend to knoyle

Didn't play. Davies was excellent, even though he took a quick tap from a penalty we could have taken to go in at half time 19-3 up.

Icant understand why we didn't go to the corner with the last penalty either. Rub it in a bit.

Well that is a couple of games now where Biggar has done nothing positive for the Ospreys...

ospreys generally poor today. only just watched the game. Bigger, seriously needs to be benched for a while. he's very good at playing from the set play book, but dosn't read the game well and play whats in front of him. people keep saying he's young, but i've seen boys at the U16 district level read the game better!!! For me tonight Webb should have been on after 20mins. Ball was about as quick as an asmatic slug all evening. We're still making too many fundamental mistakrs and giving away too many penalties. MR CUDDY TAKE NOTE!!!! - If you want to improve the gate numbers at the Liberty something has to change starting with the management team! Johnson is clearly clueless, holley should be defence coach and have no other responsibility. humph either needs to step up and sort the lineout its too complicated or step down.

It looked to me the Ospreys paid for the same mistakes made in the first Sarries game playing back row forwards in the second row. For me JT can only play 6 and he is not great in that position, why did he stay on? I have said it before, 9, 10, 12 and 13 have been slow this year but today the centres have improved, Beck was very good outside a very poor 10 and 9.

What are the Ospreys selectors doing, the captain has no idea of his role, they made the same mistakes as the Sarries game at the scrums/penalties near the line and came away with no points. N Owens was also poor again today, the Ospreys had a forward pass try again, M Rees handling on the ground the Scarlets get the penalty, North knocked on, wrong decisions or no decision at the scrums etc, he is so full of himself he should be given premiership games to get his feet back on the ground.

The better team won today and well done Scarlets, keep it up, I was confident they would win this game but expected a more in attack.

The Ospreys are where they deserve to be out of the HC and heading down the Pro12 league unless things change e.,g get Biggar out ,he has been given 3 years at 10 and the back play is getting worse. I don't think Morgan is ready for this level of rugby but he has far more promise than Biggar so what is there to lose playing him, they cant play worse. As Gibbs stated the Ospreys have no bonus points, that says it all, the attack is toothless and this stems from the half backs.

The Blues game should be close as the Ospreys have the better forwards but the Blues have much better backs providing Parks does not play.

Nigel has another poor game, the scrums were a shambles. Every scrum in the first half Adam Jones was binding on the arm and using this grip to drop the scrum. Young Rhodri Jones was pinged 3 times for not binding, but the leverage Adam was gaining by binding on his arm meant he was never going to be able to hold onto a tight slippery jersey.

Nigel did realise that there was a doubt about the Ospreys try but the VR can only officiate on the act of scoring, so the try stood.

The IRB needs to sort out the scrums before it kills the game or one of the players!

The Blues will give you a game on that performance.

If you look at most, if not all, the teams who are very successful in the HC, especially those who have won it, they have experienced halfbacks. Leinster smartly recruited Contempomi and young, up-and-coming players like Sexton learnt a lot from him.

What do the owners do at the Ospreys? Build a team around Biggar. But who does Biggar learn from? And who does Morgan learn from? Biggar?

Utterly clueless.

I agree...! OD.

I am afraid Biggar needs to be an understudy to a better player..


None of the regions seem to recruit good foreigners though. I haven't seen many payers come into the regions over the last few years that have been valuable to Welsh rugby at any level.

what, not Lyons or King, maesteg? they were brilliant for the Scarlets.

or Bowe or Blair?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/16326139.stm

Apparently Scott Johnson coiuld be going - so could be some positive changes at Ospreys hopefully.

In regards to the game I was very annoyed at the foward pass for the O's try not being given but felt it was more the linesmans fault then Nige's. Didn't think Biggar was as bad as some on here say - but Priestland easily showed him why Priestland is Wales No1, and he doesn't read the game well as has been stated (butchering some overlaps), but he did kick well mostly. I think Kahn was the problem, I can't understand the problem as he obviously has talent (going to the WC and being one of the best players in his team) but his service and decision making were awful today (and even saying that the fowards weren't protecting him/presenting the ball to him doesn't excuse it). Why wasn't Webb on? which brings me to the other problem the coaches - which everyone knows about.

Thought Shingler, Morgan, G Davies, Priestland, Lamont and Liam W all had really good games for the Scarlets and so pleased we won - just wish we'd managed to put some more points on the board in the 1st half.

Evening campers

Watched the West Wales Derby last night, and I have to agree with you Smirnoffpriest, there were many players who performed well below Biggar, who actually tried to up the temp and shake things up by attempting different things.......... the attempted chip kick to Bowe when he saw him one to one against an advancing Lamont was a very good example.

How can anyone post on here criticising Biggar for giving Fotuali'i a good talking to, his performance was bl00dy poor and the main player who was taking all the flak of his snail-like service was Biggar himself........... So he had every right to tell the scrum-half to crank it up

Jon Thomas was awful, and Bowe just wasnt interested at all, in fact I'd go as far to say that apart from Biggar showing a bit of dog, and Barry Davies (who had his hands full against the young Scarlets FB), all the other backs need to have a good look at that performance.

Rhys Thomas had a very good game, and Matthew rees was head and shoulders above Hibbard.

Finally I thought Dom Day just nicked the MOM from Shingler and McCusker.

Guys its easy to batter Biggar yet again but the reality is he was one of the better Ospreys players on the day

No he wasn't, he was awful. Still had the swagger and the chops but nothing, for once, to back it up. Shane Williams was the one reading the riot act. He deserves to see out his career in a better team than that.

JUST ARRIVED HOME, LITTLE HOLS, WATCHED MY RECORDING AND CAME ON HERE, I SEE THE ANTI BIGGARS ARE AT IT. AS WE USED TO SAY ABOUT HOOKY WHEN ALL WERE SLATING HIM, WHAT CAN A 10 DO BEHIND SUCH POOR BALL? deary me, such short memories of the views way back when.

studio pundits praised scarlets DIFFERENCE IN THE 10'S PERFORMANCE, AND THE DIFFERENCE IN THE TEAMS PERFORMANCE. they said biggar played different tactics 2nd half, coaches woke up? realised first half tactics were wrong? the no 9 killed every chance very poor. left every body little option, and this game and the last game biggar is being put under pressure from the opposition----doesnt take a genius to know the reasons he's no time or space to do anything.
every 10 is criticised when he hasnt got enough ball to control the game......how many positions do you want him to play to ensure he gets better, quicker ball !!!!!!

apart from a few posters a lot of biased comments from people who just dont like biggar. IMHO of course! happy new year , oh danny boy ..........

The scrum half had nothing to do with the cross kicks that handed momentum to the Scarlets. If the scrum half isn't performing, Biggar as outside half should tell him what he wants! Forget lining forwards up, call it to himself and give an inside ball if needs be. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

Bowe doesn't want to be there. Half the player he was.

gavstar wrote:JUST ARRIVED HOME, LITTLE HOLS, WATCHED MY RECORDING AND CAME ON HERE, I SEE THE ANTI BIGGARS ARE AT IT. AS WE USED TO SAY ABOUT HOOKY WHEN ALL WERE SLATING HIM, WHAT CAN A 10 DO BEHIND SUCH POOR BALL? deary me, such short memories of the views way back when.

studio pundits praised scarlets DIFFERENCE IN THE 10'S PERFORMANCE, AND THE DIFFERENCE IN THE TEAMS PERFORMANCE. they said biggar played different tactics 2nd half, coaches woke up? realised first half tactics were wrong? the no 9 killed every chance very poor. left every body little option, and this game and the last game biggar is being put under pressure from the opposition----doesnt take a genius to know the reasons he's no time or space to do anything.
every 10 is criticised when he hasnt got enough ball to control the game......how many positions do you want him to play to ensure he gets better, quicker ball !!!!!!

apart from a few posters a lot of biased comments from people who just dont like biggar. IMHO of course! happy new year , oh danny boy ..........

No i agree with the pundits and everyone else, Biggar just cant read whats in front of him and tries to rely on failing set plays that the roll in to disasters. He is a young guy but he doesnt know what to do half the time in the match.

maesteg, you think ''he doesnt know what to do half the time in the match '' what are the reasons for this inability to know what to do?

I know he is a young player but he has been the main flyhalf at the Ospreys for the last three seasons. Unfortunately though his lack of tactical nouse and game reading loses us far too many games.

He kicks aimlessly with far too much ball. He doesn't naturally look to opportunities that are around him and grossly under uses the talented back division surrounding him.

When you compare Biggar to Priestland in a game like last Monday's you really see the difference between him and a player like Priestland who has had time as an understudy to a successful flyhalf like Steve Jones.

Priestland made Biggar look very immature.

Maes - thing is it was only a year ago that people were point out how far Biggar was ahead of Priestland (in the boxing day - day after due to frozen pipes farce - match). The general concensus was that Biggar had outplayed Rhys in every facet of play. So maybe it is a bit harsh on Biggar to give him such stick after this match.

Ideally if Biggar can learn some of Priestland's thought process and if Priestland can learn to be more confident (only about 25% of how cocky Biggar is) then we would have two quality fly halves.

maesteg, you have said what biggar does wrong or doesnt do on the park, as i said to you in my last post, what do you think are the reasons for all the things he is apparently doing wrong continously, every game ?

How can you be sure. Lack of skills or maybe tunnel vision....!

do you have any ideas yourself...?

Maestro, the scrum half Kahn Photoshop is pants, that's why. A great outside half would know how to sort that out as well though.

Agree Glas...!

Khan is having an awful time in Swansea... It might be too cold for him up here?

He was a good player in the RWC and at Crusaders...

And as you said. A decent flyhalf would tell khan to get a move on when he wants the ball...

When i have watched the Ospreys with Biggar at Flyhalf you notice most what a poor communicator he is compared to the other tens.

The only time he talks is when he is whinging about something to the ref or his teammates... If I was his coach i would have told him a year ago if i see him raise his arms outstretched in protest of something one more time I would tear up his contract there and then and sub him off the pitch accordingly...

maesteg, biggar talks to everyone on the pitch ! no lack of communication, and he was slated for trying to sort out a 9 who was hopeless.

can't believe you cannot find any reasons other than 'tunnel vision' 'lack of skill' for repeatedly playing the same way! in fact, i dont believe it !


my ideas on the same subject; lack of direct personal quality coaching. plus poor coaching management assessment of the oppositional strengths and weaknesses and game planning accordingly.

same game plan for every team. changed at half time! good pre planning would have had the 2nd half tactics first half. ospreys knew their scrum would be better than scarlets, should have been a priority to to maximise their strengths, we'll see how they approach the next game.

lets face it, the scarlets didn't have to do a lot to win, and that is not taking anything away from their performance. rp just played like rog mark 2 and it was sufficient. imho, of course, and in the cold, and wet, light of day.

Here's my two cents for what it's worth:

Biggar - he's actually not a bad player. No really he isn't. However, he's got three main issues:

1. Territorial kicking isn't great. Needs to work on that a bit because all he does is give away easy possession.

2. Chopsing the referee. It gets on their t*ts and doesn't help. Biggar just needs to focus on what his role is not the referee.

3. His reputation. I'm sure the above and other rumours have fuelled it, but it's not helping him being given the "bighead" label.

Being as someone mentioned Tommy. All he wants to do is play his rugby (and have my babies ), and I think, at times his play is stifled at the O's. He's different when he's with Ireland, so I don't think it's a case of him getting worse or being a shadow of his former self. He's also had injury problems this year, which puts any decent player off course a bit to be fair.

Sorry Cari, but Tommy needs a move.

Biggar'll be back. Nobody that cocky is off his game for long.

There is a malaise at the Liberty. Players or coaches or both need to change.

Glas - don't be sorry, I agree with you. As I said, he's being stifled at the O's, and that is apparent when he goes back to the Irish squad. I don't think his injuries this year have helped either, mind.