Ford on loan

George Ford has gone to Leeds on loan.....

http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/156749.html?addata=chromium


With the possibility he will remain at Headingley until the end of the season?

Will this mean Staunton will take the helm during the 6 Nations

There is a strong chance he would have been unavailable due to the U20 6Ns any way.

At least this way he gets some game time as next year he will be Floods back-up when staunton goes. I guess that the 10 spot will be covered by Staunton and 36 during the 6Ns.

Have Tigers fans been happy that Staunton has been the bench option since Flood came back from the WC? In a faltering side Ford seemed to be doing pretty well starting ahead of Staunton at the beginning of the season.

Flood has (rightly or wrongly) played every minute anyway I think, so it's made little difference. Cockers is usually cautious in bringing the youngsters through.

This for me is were England get to cautious and have far to many players to choose from, if Ford was Welsh or Southern Hemisphere he would be looking forward to a few caps next year a young exciting player like him should be involved asap with top level rugby and the International squad, what the hell good is playing in Leeds going to do for him??

Gives him regular 80 minutes at a decent physical level (he is still quite a small bloke), as opposed to getting scraps of game time here and there whilst Flood is in the 10 shirt for Tigers. He is still just 18 remember.

So was George North, Jonah Lomu, Jonny Wilkinson when they were capped.

Am I happy that Staunton will probably be the 10 during 6Ns - no. I am though pleased that Ford will be getting game time against adults before he spends Feb/March with the U20s.

MM, Georgie-boy is tiny. North and Lomu were built like tanks at 18. Right now he does not have the physicality needed to play day in - day out with the big boys as he tends to be targetted for big and late hits. Next season he will be pushing flood very hard for his Tigers place.

LondonTiger wrote:
MM, Georgie-boy is tiny. North and Lomu were built like tanks at 18. Right now he does not have the physicality needed to play day in - day out with the big boys as he tends to be targetted for big and late hits. Next season he will be pushing flood very hard for his Tigers place.

Jonny Wilkinson was a big success for England and he was capped at George Fords age, they are a pretty similar size too... Considering England are lacking good young flyhalfs other than Flood, this is a great opportunity. I am sure he will benefit from regular playing time at Leeds, but is it better than Leicester for him...?

With future England potential in mind I actually think it is a shame that Ford is held back by Jeremy Staunton, an Irish 31 year old. In my opinion Leeds would have benefitted more from Staunton and Ford would have benefitted from taking the helm at the Tigers for the Six Nations period.

Ford looked very talented at under 20s level last year, I saw him vs Wales. Looked like he and Matthew Morgan for Wales both have big futures.

I have seen him in the LV=, he looked a little chastised, similarly so did Morgan for the Ospreys. Morgan definitely the less worried to tear up the tactics sheet when he see's something worth investigating, a quality Ford showed last year too less so in the Tigers team.

maestegmafia wrote:Wilkinson was a big success for England and he was capped at George Fords age, they are a pretty similar size too..

.. nah Jonny was bigger in physique, if not height. Also JW was first capped at 18 as a replacement on teh wing, while the following season he was playing 12 for Newcastle and England. Ford is someway behind Farrell as a 10 who can play 12

With future England potential in mind I actually think it is a shame that Ford is held back by Jeremy Staunton, an Irish 31 year old. In my opinion Leeds would have benefitted more from Staunton and Ford would have benefitted from taking the helm at the Tigers for the Six Nations period.

Except Ford would not be available for tigers during the 6Ns.

George Ford might be almost the same physique that Wilkinson was on debut (not quite in my opinion), but the game has become a lot more physical since then, players are much bigger and stronger than they were even in the late 90's.

Ford is several years from playing for England, and some way behind Farrell and Burns. It's a good move for him, although not necessarily for his older brother!

LondonTiger wrote:

Except Ford would not be available for tigers during the 6Ns.[/quote]Why is that? Surely he would benefit more from playing Premiership level rather than under 20s? Giving another England U20s prospect a chance in the U20s 6N.

Jonny Wilkinson is currently 15 ft 10 in an inch taller than Ford and 14 st from what I remember of him around 1998-99 he was definitely a smaller stature...

Anyhow.

Do you really think that Size is all that matters here? Surely ability and experience would do him well. he would be what 22 or 23 at the next RWC still in his mid to late twenties in 2019.

Or do you think the RFU have learnt form their JW experience and agree that if you push a player too hard, give them too much responsibility at a young age it can effect their career and lead to possibly long injury lay offs?

maestegmafia wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

Except Ford would not be available for tigers during the 6Ns.

Why is that? Surely he would benefit more from playing Premiership level rather than under 20s? Giving another England U20s prospect a chance in the U20s 6N.

Jonny Wilkinson is currently 15 ft 10 in an inch taller than Ford and 14 st from what I remember of him around 1998-99 he was definitely a smaller stature...

Anyhow.

Do you really think that Size is all that matters here? Surely ability and experience would do him well. he would be what 22 or 23 at the next RWC still in his mid to late twenties in 2019.

Or do you think the RFU have learnt form their JW experience and agree that if you push a player too hard, give them too much responsibility at a young age it can effect their career and lead to possibly long injury lay offs?

Certainly not, but I mentally cringe at the thought of someone like Jamie Roberts or Ma'a Nonu running down his channel. There are other things to consider too. Look at the state of the England team at the moment, likely to have at least 14 new squad members with little leadership left over from (or indeed displayed in) the last World Cup.

George is an excellent talent and I am almost certain that he will be an England starter (and a Lions contender!) for years to come. However, he just doesn't have the game management skills at the moment. You're asking a callow youth with these limitations to try and act as a pivot for a team which has little direction and few leaders, it's a recipe for disaster. I'm not against the idea of including youth in positions of responsibility (at times I have actively called for it) but George is a luxury England just can't afford in the coming Six Nations in my opinion.

Oops, you're talking about at Premiership level... I should learn to read.

Very good points Cumbrian...

It certainly would not be as easy to fit in Ford as it was Wilkinson at the same age due to the respective players they are amongst.

Ford is a player we all have our eye on. This could work out as a golden opportunity for him, I certainly agree that being an understudy to good player is the most progressive way forward.

In Wales you can see an excellent example of that comparing Rhys Priestland, understudy to Stephen Jones and Dan Biggar, first choice at the age of 18 learning to figure it all out on his own.

Similarly you have a hansom situation with Farrell learning from Hodgson who has been one of the best tens in English rugby for a very long time.

MM the loan period is only until the 6Ns. Usually England insist on U20s taking preference over Premiership - unless there are pressing reasons why a club needs the player.
Cockers has said the arrangement will be reviewed at the end of Jan. We shall see who and where ford is playing then.

Cheers LT

Jonny Wilkinson is currently 15 ft 10 in an inch taller than Ford and 14 st from what I remember of him around 1998-99 he was definitely a smaller stature...

There really isn't a comparison. Ford is committed but has no where near Wilko's power in the tackle. He is picked on by the opposition and because of his youth will make mistakes. Normally at his age he'd be played at either 12 or 15 in order to bed him in ala Wilko or Cips but he is an out and out 10 so the only option to get him regular game time is too loan him out.

In an ideal season he would have made it onto the bench more but after the RWC and the injuries Tigers have a lot of ground to make up and can't afford to experiment a great deal.

Btw, Leeds already have one highly promising young 10, Tommy Bell on loan from Sale, and consistent with what Sam says they play him at 15.

George Ford's older brother Joe is at Leeds as well and is an excellent prospect as a tactical 10. Kicks from hand and from the tee very well.

I'm not sure Joe is that good tbh. George at 10 and Jordan Davies (another Sale loanee) at 12 is probably the best Leeds combo.

Joe Ford is young but tactically astute and a good points kicker. Not sure if he'll make it internationally but he seems a good club player. His move to Saints has set him back a season or two though.

How's Ian Thornley going with Leeds. I believe he's on loan from Sale.

As I understand it Thornley has been doing well.

Wonder if we can have him back?

I'd presume with Allen set to return we'd go 10.Twelvetrees, 12.Allen, 13.Smith. That would be good in defence and attack LT. Maybe using Billy's cannon of a boot against Ulster might help the scoreboard tick over.

I cannot see Cockers picking Billy at 10, hope he does.

He has before. Billy has also been replacing Staunton on the bench when not fully fit. With Billy in good form and Allen returning from injury I think Cockers might go for that.

Can 36 kick penalties from anywhere other than dead infront of the posts yet though?

With Flood missing now till the end of the 6 nations wont they look to recall Ford ?

I've seen 36 kick them from everywhere PSW. It's just a coin toss everytime and from anywhere as to whether he gets them or not. A Bedford fan told me he'd seen Twelvetrees start a run up only to have the ball blow off the tee near the touchline, Billy picked it up and drop kicked it over before the charge down arrived. As ever with Billy it's a flip of the coin.

Meanwhile Ford has replaced his brother at 10, with Davies at 12. The Leeds backline, on paper, is now very exciting and stuffed with young talent. Of course hardly any of them are Leeds players.....

And Leeds scored 42 points (conceded a fair few mind).

How many of those did Ford get? I take it the Leeds full back is still kicking the points.

Tommy Bell took the kicks.

Quote for the Yorkshire Evening Post:

George Ford was at the heart of all things good for Leeds

What rights do clubs like leicester have on recalling players on loans like this? I only ask as with Flood in the EPS and 36 in the Saxons the Tigers may be a little short on 10 cover behind Staunton, who else at tigers can play 10?

Ford's loan was only until the end of January so he will be available. Tigers are due to review his time with Leeds then. Twelvetrees will only miss LV Cup games and Staunton can step in for those so it's not that big a problem if Ford stays out on loan.

There's a couple of academy players can play 10 and Sam Harrison played there for half a game in pre season (vs Nottingham), by all accounts he did rather well (including off of the tee).