My Irish Six Nations Squad

First topic message reminder :

With little over a month to go before the games get under way, Declan Kidney is in camp with some of the squad this week already reviewing the RWC and planning ahead to the six nations.

God willing he has decided on a method of attacking the opposition other than launching Ferris, SOB and Healy at the oppositions defence. There are a lot of things Ireland are good at (like defence, lineout, the breakdown) but we really need to become a modern team in regards to attack. We are still very set in our 2009 ways, with forwards being clumsy and not having the skills to play a high tempo game and the backs rarely breaking the line and not running enough dummy lines.

One would assume the squad will be named in the next 3 weeks or so, that in mind I felt I'd give the squad a bash myself and make a concious effort to do a few things:

a) do well in the competition
b) reward form
c) encourage attacking rugby
d) blood some players [be it as starting for the first time or being included in the squad for the first time}

Bold+underlined=starting player
Underlined=bench
Italic=part of 30 man squad
anything else=extended squad


Props:
Healy-Ross-Court-Buckley-McAllister-Hagan
Healy and Ross are the obvious starters and with only one prop spot on the bench makes sense to put Court there. Buckley in there to cover TH. McAllister and Hagan have been doing ok this season and are young fellas we need to expose to this level of rugby and thus I'd want them in the training squad and then being released back to their provinces when/where possible.

Hookers:
Best-Cronin-Varley-Sherry
This is the logical choice as there is quite a gap in class between each of these players save Varley-Sherry but Sherry has been injured for some time.

Locks:
O'Connell-Ryan-O'Callaghan-Toner-Cullen-Tuohy
I think that Ryan has now surpassed O'Callaghan and should be considered a starter in the Irish team. I think Cullen has played very poorly since he returned from the RWC and that Toner has played very well and thus I would reward form and keep Toner in the 30 man squad.

Backrow:
Ferris-O'Brien-Heaslip-O'Mahoney-Jennings-McLaughlin-Ronan
I would continue with our RWC starting backrow as SOB seems to have been developing into a 7 more over the past 2 months or so. I would bring in Peter O'Mahoney as he has been playing better than most around him regardless of experience he also covers the entire backrow.

Scrumhalves:
Murray-Reddan-Boss-Marshall
I'd continue with the order of our RWC 9's however I think the gap between Boss and Reddan has closed considerably. Marshall beat TOL to the extended squad as I believe Marshall has been on fire and that TOL is a good athlete but a poor scrumhalf.

Flyhalves:
Sexton-O'Gara-Madigan-Keatley
I went for Sexton over O'Gara due to Sexton's better form as of late and also due to his attacking talent. I went for Madigan over keatley as Keatley is blowing hot and cold as of late and Madigan is in unbelievable form with ball in hand.

Centres:
McFadden-Darcy-Cave-O'Malley
I went for McFadden to start ahead of Darcy for a number of reasons but mainly due to how ineffective Darcy is in attack now, he can't break the gainline, rarely makes huge barging runs, his decision making is too slow and often poor. I'd play McFadden at 12 and Bowe at 13 due to his fantastic lines of running, physicality, support play and offloading and his ability to break the line while still being defensively solid and able to distribute. Earls I feel is an out and out winger, lacks the vision and distribution to be a centre, just my opinion though.

Back 3:
Kearney-Earls-Trimble-Bowe-Fitzgerald-Carr
Bowe is in as a winger but will play 13. Kearney at 15 with earls or Fitzgerald covering in Jones' absence. Fitzgerald gets 11 as he has been in very good form since the RWC. Trimble in also as Earls is not starting on the wing currently and Trimble is also playing very well at the moment IMO. Carr to be an extended squad player if his injury isn't too bad.


There ya have it:

Healy-Best-Ross
Ryan-O'Connell
Ferris-Heaslip-O'Brien
Murray-Sexton
McFadden-Bowe
Fitzgerald-Kearney-Trimble

Court-Cronin-O'Callaghan-O'Mahony-Reddan-O'Gara-Earls

I believe that team has a bit more attacking guile and creativity than it did in the RWC (excluding BOD of course). I think if the coaches can coach this team to attack and certain players play almost 'off the ball' this could be quite a slick and skillful team.

Dummy runners are crucial.
Backs running from depth at speed are crucial.
Forwards and backs attacking as one is crucial.
Our rock solid lineout and defence are crucial as is continuing our good work at the breakdown.

We need to blood some players more also, I'd like to see Cronin, Toner, O'Mahoney, Madigan and O'Malley getting some game time even if it is just 20 minutes against Italy or Scotland.

What do others think?
Is this the right squad?
Should Ryan be ahead of O'Callaghan?
Does Toner warrant Cullen's exclusion?
Does POM have what it takes to step up?
Does Marshall's good form warrant leaving TOL out?
Who would you pick Madigan or Keatley?
Does Darcy offer anything anymore worth keeping?
Who is the right call at 13?

connaught should not have to ship in sub standard imports in their droves for sure. i think ulster are not in need of anyones charity and are self sufficient. massive respect IF they win their group.

rodders, watched stringer in a few of their games in a hungover stupour on the couch (ospreys and quins). he did well and is still a decent player. not as if he has lost a break he never had. passing looks sharp as ever. crack on over to the saracens forum and get some more information. expect a report on my desk by close of business today .

no idea about buckley

In fairness Dave, when i made the original suggestion, Ulster were struggeling.

Ive not seen Buckley play but I bet my house hes been his usual self.

red_stag wrote:Ive not seen Buckley play but I bet my house hes been his usual self.

Which self though, the raging bull or the Big Friendly Giant?

He is both combined (though usually raging bull lasts about 30 seconds while BFG lasts about 79 minutes and 30 seconds).

Doesn't matter, he's too tall for a prop, FACT, end of.

I actually like Buckley. I think he comes in for alot of unjust critisim.

eirebilly wrote:I actually like Buckley. I think he comes in for alot of unjust critisim.

I don't mind him either but he's a terrible scrummager and his work rate is appalling at times. When he's in the mood to carry and hit rucks he can be a real asset but it doesn't happen anywhere near enough.

The bottom line for a TH though is he has to lock down the scrum and worryingly Ireland only have Ross right now and even he's been a bit dodgy since the RWC.

Buckley's personal problems were well known last year rodders and that did afect him. I think that he will be hungry again and i have alot of faith in him. As i said, i think he gets slated way more than he deserves to be.

I accept that Billy but Buckley's performances have been like that throughout his career.

Have you seen any of his displays for Sale yet? I'd be interested to hear how he's getting on.

Havent seen much of him to be honest rodders but he would be worth keeping an eye on.

The word doing the rounds was that he was playing pretty well over there but I haven't seen him.

Buckley is very lazy, does not utilise his strenght and has a poor work ethic.

Munster achieved what they did by having a high work ethic. Anthony Hogan, John Kelly, Shaun Payne, Ian Dowling, Denis Hurley are not world class players but have always tried their best and worked very hard and all won silverware as part of a top team.

Buckley puts in a few cameo moments in every match that wows the cameras or gets him on Rugbydump. Thats not what makes a good team player though. He was never going to cut the mustard at Munster in that case.

Thats good to know Thomond. Perhaps he'll feature in the 6N squad?

Tom Court is a far better LH than he's given credit for, and hes improved massively in the lose in recent seasons, but he really is pants on the tight head side of the scrum.

He's like a box of chocolates is Buckley...you just don't know what you are going to get when you bring him on....he could knock the opposition about like skittles and score a try or he could stand with hands by his sides watching the rucks and do a folding deckchair impression in the scrum.

To be fair I think Munster and Ireland have been incredibly patient with him and he hasn't delivered.

I think if he went to Bath around 4 years ago he could have gone on to be very decent at least.

Thomond wrote:I think if he went to Bath around 4 years ago he could have gone on to be very decent at least.

I think you could be right Thomond. I do think we squander a fair bit of talent over here by being too keen to keep everyone in the country.

The like of Mick O'Driscoll, Leo Cullen, Jennings, Reddan, Jonny Murphy, Jonny O'Connor etc. all improved their games by moving away for a while and others like Geordan Murphy, Tommy Bowe, Downey, Wilson etc. have all carved out excellent careers abroad.

I wonder with guys like Donnach Ryan, Fergus McFadden etc. would they be further on in their careers if they spent a few seasons some where else.

roddersm wrote:On another note, I read a couple of things about Neil Best recently...apparantly he left a drunken message on Kidney's answer phone a while back which is why he's been out in the cold for Ireland since the churchill cup in 2009.

He also allegedly made a few enemies at that tournament when he insisted on lifting the cup because he was the most 'senior international player', despite only captaining in the final and not the tournament.

Not sure if any of this is true but if so, it suggests he's the total muppet Geoff and a few others suggested he was. What a waste of talent !

And he hasn't learnt a thing.

His behaviour at the Warriors Christmas bash was totally out of order.
A event attended by partners and young kids.

The man is a total tool

Rodders- I actually saw an image online of the text Best sent Kidney - Best might have posted in on Twitter and someone mentioned it - I can't remember. It was fairly unpleasant.

The man is a doofus.

Don, what did it (allegedly*) say?

* to protect ourselves legally.

Don, Geoff what a plonker . Best could have been one of the best Irish players if his generation and an Ulster great. He's such an intelligent guy too.

By the sounds of it he just has a self distruct button he can't help pushing.

Stag - I can't remember, exactly.

But it was after the Barbarians game, possibly? It was a more robust take on "stick that in yer pipe and smoke it, Deccie", as I recall. Signed off with a kiss. He took it down again, as I recall, but he was inordinately proud of it. Someone on another forum, I think, posted about it and I think everyone rushed to look. Allegedly.

Here's a challenge. What team could Kidney realisitcally name that would prompt least debate and also most debate.

Least Deabte:
Healy, Best, Ross
Ryan, O'Connell
Ferris, Heaslip, O'Brien
Murray, Sexton
McFadden, Earls
Fitzgerald, Kearney, Bowe

Cronin, Court, O'Callaghan, O'Mahony, Reddan, O'Gara, Trimble

Most Debate:
Healy, Best, Ross
Toner, O'Connell
Ferris, O'Brien, O'Mahony
Murray, O'Gara
Darcy, Earls
Trimble, Kearney, Bowe

Cronin, Buckley, Ryan, Heaslip, Reddan, Sexton, Wallace

Least Deabte:
Horan, Flannery, Ross
DOC, O'Connell
Quinlan, Leamy, Wallace
TOL, ROG
D'arcy, Earls
J Murphy, Jones, Zebo

.......

Sorry Rodders we would have to have Hayes in there instead of Ross (even though he is a corkman he is also a traitor and should be banished in exile to some godforsaken place like er... Dublin).

Ferris, O'Brien, O'Mahony

I like the look of that actually.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Ferris, O'Brien, O'Mahony

I like the look of that actually.

Me too.

Sorry DOD forgot to take out the token Leinsterman !

Feckless Rogue wrote:Ferris, O'Brien, O'Mahony

I like the look of that actually.

I like the look of it with O'Mahoney as the 8 and O'Brien the 7.

eirebilly wrote:As an old St Marys man myself Gibbo, you wernt alone in in recognising Sexton as a future player. I have been watching him since he was a 15 year old in 2000. An old school buddy called me when i was in Dublin to tell me to have a look at this wee boy and what i saw was impressive, even then.

His uncle is a former Munster player so he has ties to Munster (how desperate is that ).

I honestly believe that he should be given the starting position, no matter how good ROG has been playing since having Sexton threaten his spot (even some of you cant deny that ROG upped his game alot) and i do see him as being a future Ireland captain. What people dont see is that he is very passionate and is a great motivator on and off the pitch.

I really am getting a little tired of all this Lienster v Munster bikkering, save that for when we play eachother, when it comes down to the national side we should just look for the best player for the best position and not which province they hail from or represent. All provinces play different styles of rugby and all have something to bring to the national team

Agree on the bickering Billy. But, some people just ask for it. Ok, Ill stop WUMing...

A Mary's man eh? Always knew you had a certain amount of class sir. Yeah, 1st saw Sexton play for the A's... His running and passing skills made him stand out. Then, I saw him come on in the 2nd-half and finish off Wasps in a HC Pool game at the RDS a fer years back. I knew it then.

And another ting. Johnny is a self-confessed Kerry man. He loves the place. It's a Kingdom. Does that still count as Munster?

Any more Mary' s lads I should be looking out for bud? Im loike a Torf man meself. Playing well this year.

another kerry dub here Gibbo.

the mother is from tralee and cousins all over the shop down there. after the all ireland and hc victory i eagerly await a trip down there in April.

Here im in the dam for the Wales game at a stag do. any good boozers about for watching rugby? Aint been over in years. Watching the Irish backs after a few mushrooms could be interesting : ))

And another ting. Johnny is a self-confessed Kerry man. He loves the place. It's a Kingdom. Does that still count as Munster?


Never....never never never......

Kerry is the Kingdom - me boll.x. I would take Ulster Andy and Ross O'Carroll Kelly before them....

red_stag wrote:

Gibson wrote:Mcfadden, he also makes his own way. Needs to shove Darcy sideways to the bench for province & country. He will. It's the Leinster Way.

Im not fully sure it is the Leinster Way. I'm not sure I've really seen a Leinster player ever shove a 50+ cap international onto the bench. Sexton as you say only won his place due to the Contepomi injury and departure.

In Munster we've seen both this year and last year, Donnacha O'Callaghan relegated to the bench in the Heineken Cup for Donncha Ryan. We've seen uncapped Peter O'Mahony get picked over Denis Leamy and his 57 caps time and again. We've seen Tomas O'Leary oust Peter Stringers firm hold on the #9 shirt and quickly suffer the same thing at the hands of Conor Murray. Despite all he had done for Munster, Anthony Foley didn't even get picked in the 22 for the 2008 HEC Final. He lost out to a young Donnacha Ryan who was covering the backrow. Denis Hurley did the same that year bursting into the fullback position and taking Shaun Paynes place off him.

We've seen Munster take on teams in Europe this year minus Marcus Horan, Jerry Flannery, John Hayes, Donncha O'Callaghan, Mick O'Driscoll, Denis Leamy, David Wallace, Peter Stringer, Tomas O'Leary etc and win. That used to be unthinkable. Only Flannery and Wallace would have been injured. The rest were simply usurpred by younger hungrier players.

By contrast Shane Horgan, Gordon Darcy, Brian O'Driscoll, Eoin Reddan, Mike Ross, Leo Cullen, Shane Jennings have yet to really be challenged by McFadden, O'Malley, Hagan, Dom Ryan etc when push comes to shove.

Good points Stag. And its true, Munster have been better than all the other provinces in entrusting and in playing their Academy players. Its great to see. But, it was more necessary for Munster as their squad was aging fast. I think Schmidt has altered the whole dynamic at Leinster with regard to this now. Has played near most of the talented Academy players this and last season in the PRO12. Ulster did themselves proud v Leinster at the RDS on St Stephens Day. Was really impressed with the guts and commitment of their kids. Some really put their hands up. We need more of it, less journeymen preventing them getting a fair chance of game time and the IRFU Directive will enforce it.

The IRFU should have taken in what the provinces were already doing in this regard - before they took the decision. And let them decide when their players are ready. All they needed to do was to reduce the NIQ quotient by 1 every year, let development evolve naturally and review it constantly. What they have done... well, it's the tail wagging the dog.

Im really proud of the development work done by our provinces Academies. All of them.

For the Munster changes I think McGahan was too slow to change. Some of the changes were necessary last year, as Gibson says this year there was no choice. He stuck with the older team for too long and failed to properly introduce players sooner. POM is one example who should have been getting more game time last year.

dublin_dave wrote:another kerry dub here Gibbo.

the mother is from tralee and cousins all over the shop down there. after the all ireland and hc victory i eagerly await a trip down there in April.

Here im in the dam for the Wales game at a stag do. any good boozers about for watching rugby? Aint been over in years. Watching the Irish backs after a few mushrooms could be interesting : ))

Dave, I think maybe ya should bring home some mushrooms for Deccie. Ya know, to expanded his consciousness and sheet. (just jokin roysh).

I will be out and about for that game if you fancy a wee tour.

Here are the best pubs for lads on a Stag/rugby tour:

http://www.cocosoutback.com/
2 huge screens and smaller screens all round the pub for anything you want to see. The 6-N is HUGE there. As is the RWC, and 3-N (Now Rugby Championship or sumaat?). People from all the participating countries gather there and it's great craic and banter. Later on after the games, it goes club-style and gets filled with tasty wimmin lookin for foreign geezers. Being Irish really helps... one finds. But you wouldn't be interested in that kinda ting Ted... Great food, beer and service too.

http://www.cafecorso.nl/cafecorso.html
This place is really funky and is in the heart of the Red Light, coffeeshops yada yada. Quickies at half-time are a feature. Its small but its real Dutch and Id recommend it to you and yer mates. Everything required for a mad stag bash is within metres of you.

http://oreillys.nl/amsterdam/
Great place for sports. 2 huge screens great food and a decent

http://www.mulligans.nl/
My fav Irish Pub. Real Irish barmen and the best in De Dam. They have a smoking room too. Great ballad sessuins at the weekend

Sure throw us a PM when it gets near the time and I'll meet ye for a pint.

good man thanks a mil for the advice. last few times i was over was with work so boring, out for a bit of a indonesian meal and a few quiet heinikens with clients. This time will be very very different

my mate getting married is from fife so there will be twenty scots and a smattering of others about. will defo be out and about for calcutta cup aswell.

will mail you closer to time.