Englands EPS - whats the deal?

Whats the deal with the EPS? Can Lancaster/Farrell and Rowntree pick their EPS from scratch or are they limited to a restricted number of changes?
I recall that when the deal was set up, the EPS was selected at the start of the season (a flawed policy IMO as they would be selecting players on the previous years form). And following that there is a window before the 6N where the England coaches could make up to 5 tactical changes to the existing squads. Injured players can be replaced in addition.

So, Is Lancaster still bound by this agreement or is it different in a WC season?
If he has to operate in this 5 replacement window, we wont be seeing the mass changes or freshening up (a la Lievremont) that we were promised!

Propdavid_london Lancaster/Farrell and Rowntree will be able to probably pick the squad they want.

Injuries and retirements/absentees mean more places are open.

You will obviously see the likes of Ashton,Foden,Flood,Youngs,Cole retained.

beshocked wrote:Propdavid_london Lancaster/Farrell and Rowntree will be able to probably pick the squad they want.

Injuries and retirements/absentees mean more places are open.

You will obviously see the likes of Ashton,Foden,Flood,Youngs,Cole retained.

why will we see Dan "Uncle Albert" Cole retained? He had a stinker of a World Cup and has failed to live up to early promise.

another thing...if Tindall is picked for the 2012 EPS, I'm boycotting the 6N.

beshocked - that would be hopefull. It would be unfair to lump Lancaster et al. with a temp contract and not let him pick who he wants.

Cabbages....

I would be amazed if he was....

Cabbage - I think the whole England pack had a bit of a stinker in the WC. Cole was no exception. Stevens had a real stinker till moved to his preferred side.

Anther point to consider - if Lancaster is 'editing' the EPS squad is it the EPS that was selected at the start of the 2011 season or is it the squad that went to the WC?

Players making exit and not necessarily having to be tactically replaced =
Thompson - retired
Wilko - retired
Mears - injured
Cueto - ? might be retained
Haskell - unavailable
Palmer - unavailable
Shaw - unavailable/retired
Sheridan - injured
Tindall - ? - unlikely
Lewis Deacon - injured
Moody - retired
Wigglesworth - injured
Tuilagi - injured (dont know how bad though)

Am I missing anyone?

It would be ridiculous if the contracts werent differnet in a WC year. I think its safe to assume, especially given all the media specualtion, that it will be an entirely fresh squad.
Even if it wasnt theres enough retirements and other changes ( playters injure dor not playing in position etc) to allow him free reign to replace the vast majority anyway. There was also a clause added which allowed the coach to replace beyond the 5 for reasons of form.

It would be kind of funny if Tindall were picked just to annoy the folk at the RFU who seemed determined to get the entire world cup bl;ame laid at his feet just because he cheated on a royal.

why will we see Dan "Uncle Albert" Cole retained? He had a stinker of a World Cup and has failed to live up to early promise

Is in very good form for Tigers and stopped the front row from being completely humiliated when Stevens was taking a pasting in the knock out stages. Tigers fans will be delighted if he is dropped out of the squad. Comfortably England's best tighthead.

From memory Lancaster et al will be able to name 10 replacements plus injury replacements and replace retirees. The RWC squad was only 30 man so an extra two will be added as well. With that scope for selection we will be able to replace around two thirds of the squad and would probably want to keep the other third to build from anyway.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Is in very good form for Tigers and stopped the front row from being completely humiliated when Stevens was taking a pasting in the knock out stages. Tigers fans will be delighted if he is dropped out of the squad. Comfortably England's best tighthead.

Cole is a very very good player, and solid in the scrum. His work around the park and in the loose has improved recently, and he is very close to becoming the complete prop.

Stevens was on fire on his return to Sarries....but was (the whole team were poor to be fair) rubbish in the WC and i firmly believe he should be nowhere near the England team.

Id stick with Cole at TH...

Geordie, he may be in there for the versatility - squad will probably consist of 3 hookers, and maybe 5 props (say 2 tight and 3 looseheads) it helps if 1 or 2 of them have some ability on both sides.

Id rather have Doran Jones now if we're going down the versatiliy route....

Stevens is better at tight head.

I am sure that PDJ will be there or there abouts with the EPS or Saxons squads - but is he getting much game time at Saints?

To the original question - no it is not a completely new EPS squad.

The WC squad was the original EPS squad for 2011/12. Lancaster may:

Replace retired and injured players:
Sheridan, Thomson, Moody, Wilkinson, Mears, Shaw, Wigglesworth

Replace any non english based players:
Palmer, Haskell

I have probably missed someone retiring or injured, but with these 9 + 10 form changes he has to keep a maximum of 11 players:

Corbs, Hartley, Cole, Lawes, Wood, Croft, Easter, Youngs, Simpson, Flood, Tuilagi, Ashton, Foden, Armitage would be in most people's squads - so Lancaster has plenty of scope.

Also remember that the EPS squad are the people he is allowed from 2 weeks before the 6Ns all the way through to the end, and allowed to insist on their clubs resting them at certain times.
HOWEVER he is NOT restricted to selecting those 32 players. It is effectively a quasi central contract.

LondonTiger would you keep Armitage and Simpson?

LondonTiger wrote:To the original question - no it is not a completely new EPS squad.

The WC squad was the original EPS squad for 2011/12. Lancaster may:

Replace retired and injured players:
Sheridan, Thomson, Moody, Wilkinson, Mears, Shaw, Wigglesworth

Replace any non english based players:
Palmer, Haskell

I have probably missed someone retiring or injured, but with these 9 + 10 form changes he has to keep a maximum of 11 players:

Corbs, Hartley, Cole, Lawes, Wood, Croft, Easter, Youngs, Simpson, Flood, Tuilagi, Ashton, Foden, Armitage would be in most people's squads - so Lancaster has plenty of scope.

Also remember that the EPS squad are the people he is allowed from 2 weeks before the 6Ns all the way through to the end, and allowed to insist on their clubs resting them at certain times.
HOWEVER he is NOT restricted to selecting those 32 players. It is effectively a quasi central contract.

OK it seems odd that its not a comepltley new squad by the 10 is more than normal right? The 10 though isnt strcitly form picks, theres a seperate clause that allows them to replace any player at any time who they deem to not be in form or who isnt playing regulalry in their lisyted position for their club.
Also bear in mind as well that the WC squad was only 30, so thats another 2 straight away on top.
That gives him carte blanche to in effect pick anyone he wants for the EPS.
As you say its not binding that only those players would play in the actual games, but it would take some pretty extreme circumstances for that to not be the case.

beshocked wrote:LondonTiger would you keep Armitage and Simpson?

I know this question was for at LT but I will stick my nose in anyway.

Armitage - No. Would have said yes a few weeks ago as a versatile bench option covering 11, 13 (emergency only), 14 & 15 with Foden & Brown being the 2 main recognized FB's in the squad. But his actions against Bath at the weekend have finally tipped me over the edge and made me change my mind. He's not playing well enough, thanks to his temper his not playing often enough and he proved that he still has stupidity issues with the yellow card he deservedly received. His discipline has never really cost England yet during a game (the Paterson challenge in NZ was after the event) but enough is enough, he needs to grow up and fight to get back into the squad again. Not a huge Banahan fan so would probably go for Joeseph (if fit) or May for in the squad now as a potential number 22.

Simpson - No. He may be a treat around the fringes but his passing is average at best for a scrum half and unless he's improved since I last saw him his defense is nowhere near international standard. I would pick Dickson before Simpson every time. Would have Youngs, Care and Dickson in the EPS and probably prefer Spencer start for the Saxons before him as well (sorry beshocked, I'm stealing your first team players again for the Saxons ).