another concerning issue for the WRU over Steven shingler

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:04 am

All, I've split a lot of the Shingler debate off the Scottish squad thread and merged it into this one. Unfortunately the board software puts the oldest post as the thread OP, so welsh-matfield's original OP is buried a ways down now. Hence I've quoted his OP post below:

welsh-matfield wrote:
another concerning issue for the WRU over Steven shingler
by welsh-matfield Yesterday at 15:18

Over the past six months Wales have lost three young players under the age of 22 to Ireland and Scotland respectively with James loxton, Matthew Jarvis and now Steven Shingler pledging there international loyaltly elsewhere. why it was only a couple of months ago steven shingler was stating his desire to break into the welsh squad http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15773032.stm. this is a concerning issue, especially as wales pool of depth is often so small and although the acadamies are thriving other nations seem to be taking advantage of this fact

Below here is my original post on the Scottish squad thread

rugbydreamer wrote:He played for the U20's Wales team in the 6N's last year. Now I always get confused with Welsh Qualification, but doesn't that mean he's WQ and can't play for anyone else?

Does anyone know if Wales are still designating the U20s as their "A" side?

Actually, from memory after the Connacht pair's eligilbity debate last year, wan't it decided that "A" games had to be against other country's "A" or full international side to count? I could be totally wrong though Headscratch

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:08 am

I dunno Kiwi, it's all a bit confusing. I didn't know Shingler had any Scottish in him at all, this has thrown me quite a bit!

Born in Swansea, played for Hendy before signing up with Llanelli and then the Scarlets. Am baffled he's been picked if I'm honest, and a bit gutted if he does end up with a Scottish cap. Really thought he'd be one for Wales for the future.

by Dorothy_Mantooth Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:15 am

rugbydreamer wrote:I dunno Kiwi, it's all a bit confusing. I didn't know Shingler had any Scottish in him at all, this has thrown me quite a bit!

His Mother is Scottish.

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:17 am

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
rugbydreamer wrote:I dunno Kiwi, it's all a bit confusing. I didn't know Shingler had any Scottish in him at all, this has thrown me quite a bit!

His Mother is Scottish.

ah wow did not know that! Still seems a bit strange to me, after he's lived pretty much his whole life in Wales before moving to play for LI this season.

by Pat_Mustard Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:27 am

Shingler is a bit of a bolt from the blue, had no idea he was qualified but his mother is from Dumfries and he says he is regularly up visiting family in the area so maybe does feel at least a bit Scottish

But as recently as November he was indicating a desire to play for Wales, so it is a bit strange! http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15773032.stm

(the direct quotes in that article only say "It is a dream to play international rugby" but it seems implicit that he's talking about Wales given the context of moving from Wales and his age group caps)

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:30 am

Well exactly Pat, that's why it's all come as a bit of a surprise. Bet Monty was being a bad influence, when Shings was still with the Scarlets! Wink

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:32 am

And probably Ansbro now - well played, Joe Very Happy

by Glas a du Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:33 am

No, no, no, you are both wrong. His MOTHER is Scottish. I rest my case.

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:35 am

ha, point Glas!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:35 am

Ah right, Glas, you see her as an indominatable MrsP type character? Run

by Adam D Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:36 am

If Shingler gets cut from the squad and doesnt play, could he play for Wales in the future (or even the same tournament!)

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:38 am

Adam D wrote:If Shingler gets cut from the squad and doesnt play, could he play for Wales in the future (or even the same tournament!)

Yes

by Glas a du Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:39 am

No reckon he's made his bed. Gatland is not the type of man to pick someone in those circumstances (unless it was Ireland we were talking about and he saw it as a chance to rub their noses in something...again)

by Adam D Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:43 am

I think we should all get a petition started to get Gatland to call up Shingler to the Wales squad on the 22nd just to annoy Robinson!

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:48 am

I'm finding it weirder and weirder that Shingler has picked Scotland the more I think on it.

Last year S4C had an advert for the 6N's of all the famous 10's in Wales, puting on the welsh shirt like Bennet, Jenkins, Stevo etc, then they had the "next generation" player putting on the shirt and guess who it was? Steven Shingler. He was all geared up for a Wales career. Most odd.

Still, chuffed for him that his hard work has payed off and he's got an international call him, tis brilliant for him, fair play Smile

by **Notch** Thu 05 Jan 2012, 11:52 am

Nah, I know you're joking Hobo but don't 'Nacewa' him. Thats unfair to him and the player he'd replace. He's dual qualified between Scotland and Wales so it's really his call- if he really wants to play for Wales he'll hold out for the call, seems he'd be happy to pull on the blue shirt though.

I'm not sure what Danielli has to do to play his way out of the squad. After all, he's no longer in the Ulster 23 if everyone is fit. He's been poor.

by jimlewtheblue Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:04 pm

Have a look at this link re Shingler (not allowed to post external links for 7 days, but search youtube for S4C 6 Nations 2011... see Shingler in full welsh kit at the end of that advert, which stars, Cliff Morgan, Barry John, Phil Bennett et al!)

Surprised Scotland haven't selected his Brother who is a backrower in fine form for the Scarlets

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:06 pm

His brother Aaron has been capped for the Wales 7's side jim, so definitely not able to play for Scotland now.

by Adam D Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:06 pm

Jim - you cant post links on the forum until after a week (due to the software stopping spammers from inundating the forum).

If you post the link in broken up text, I will edit it for you back together

by jimlewtheblue Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:11 pm

Cheers Adam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVcxDpfjKPE

by TycroesOsprey Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:21 pm

Shingler is a massive shock, he is a good little player and has always been considered one for the future with Wales. As dreamer points out he was willing to put his name to the adverts for Wales last year. After Ben Morgans admirable stance to play for the country of his birth yesterday Shinglers stance seems a little but mercenary today. I guess he at least has scottish links but its certainly one that got away for Wales.

by TycroesOsprey Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:22 pm

Shingler was born in swansea peter.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:27 pm

TycroesOsprey wrote:Shingler was born in swansea peter.

Ah thanks to google its Aaron who was born in England. He did represent England at cricket too aparently ( OK its England and Wales)

Clealry a Welshman by heritage and rugby development though. Could be fun to see them on opposite sides in a few years.

by Glas a du Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:29 pm

Glas a du wrote:I presume there's a little bit more about the Scottish national set up than the Connacht set up and that they have done their research. Seems to be the opposite of the Morgan decision. Good luck to him, he'll get more caps for Scotland than he ever would for Wales. I think he's still having a pwdi about Priestland personally (i.e. he knows he's a better player, but RP has stolen his thunder for the Scarlets and Wales)

That's my take on that one Bis.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:49 pm

Just out of interest has anyone else seen this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16419741.stm

I must be honest Steve Shingler being selected by Scotland seems to have come from nowhere.

by maestegmafia Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:52 pm

Shocked about Shingler... But he is a great selection for Scotland... Good player with a bright future...

I wonder if his brother will play for Wales?

That could mean interesting games. Add to that the possibility of a ruddock vs ruddock combo too the six nations could get very complicated

by propdavid_london Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:55 pm

I thought he was Welsh!
I guess he must have a parentage qualification somewhere.

by bluestonevedder Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:55 pm

I had no idea that he was even Scottish qualified. Bit of a shock selection!

On a side note, good to see Weir getting his chance- he could be top quality

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 12:57 pm

This is already being discussed on the Scotland squad thread so will merge this shortly

He is welsh propdavid, but apparently his mam is Scottish (I had no idea about that!). It's a complete shock to me he's opted for Scotland.

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:02 pm

If his mum is Scottish then he's a much a Scot as he is Welsh!

by Cymroglan Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:03 pm

He will look good being interviewed in his Scottish shirt and broad Swansea accent Very Happy

Fair play to him I wish him all the best.

by mckay1402 Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:13 pm

Before anyone critices him for choosing scotland I have lived in England all my life but I wouldn't dream of playing for them. It's not that easy to be dual qualified. You're always going to disappoint someone. I say fair play to the lad.

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:21 pm

Maybe he just feels more loyalty and affinity to Scotland? Maybe he feels Scottish?

by Cymroglan Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:26 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:Maybe he just feels more loyalty and affinity to Scotland? Maybe he feels Scottish?

But the most likely scenario is that he feels it will be easier for him to carve out a International career with Scotland especially since he is not playing in Wales.

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:32 pm

Cymroglan wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:Maybe he just feels more loyalty and affinity to Scotland? Maybe he feels Scottish?

But the most likely scenario is that he feels it will be easier for him to carve out a International career with Scotland especially since he is not playing in Wales.

He's half-Scottish so maybe that has a lot to do with it. Let's not assume that he's taking the easy route as that is both an insult to him and Scotland.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:35 pm

mckay1402 wrote:Before anyone critices him for choosing scotland I have lived in England all my life but I wouldn't dream of playing for them. It's not that easy to be dual qualified. You're always going to disappoint someone. I say fair play to the lad.

mckay, sounds akin your situation is more like Ben Morgan's? Shingler qualifies thru a parent

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:38 pm

The reason Shingler being selected for Scotland seemed odd to me was there was some fuss back end of last season about the fact that due to Wales not having an A team, the U20s were their reckognised second side, and as such if you wore the Welsh U20s jersey you were no longer elegable for another nation.

As a side note, I was born in England, but would never have classed myself as anything but Welsh, so if he does feel he is Scottish fair play to him.

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:41 pm

exactly SS, and I know Steve played agains the French U20's team (who also count that side as their 2nd team) so surely that means he can't play for anyone else?

All seems a bit murky to me.

by Cymroglan Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:41 pm

SafeAsMilk
So what you are saying is that if Wales had asked him to play he would have said no that his heart was with Scotland ?
You know and I know he went up north simply because they had asked him first and to think otherwise is very naive.

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:43 pm

Cymroglan,

No, we don't know his reasoning. I think to assume everyone is as cynical as you are making out is a bit depressing.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:43 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The reason Shingler being selected for Scotland seemed odd to me was there was some fuss back end of last season about the fact that due to Wales not having an A team, the U20s were their reckognised second side, and as such if you wore the Welsh U20s jersey you were no longer elegable for another nation.

As a side note, I was born in England, but would never have classed myself as anything but Welsh, so if he does feel he is Scottish fair play to him.

Spidey, again isn't your situation more akin Ben Morgan's than to Shingler's - SS was born in Wales and lived there for his formative years, but he also qualifies for a different nation thru parentage?

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:44 pm

It would be like my brother perhaps.

Raised in Wales with a Welsh mam and English Dad, but then him opting to play for England. Somehow don't think my brother would ever, ever do that, but everyone's different I guess!

I just find it a bit strange, especially after he was used as the poster boy young 10 for Welsh rugby just last season.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:45 pm

Aye, dreamer, but then you also used Henson as your poster boy!!!! Wink

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:47 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:
I just find it a bit strange, especially after he was used as the poster boy young 10 for Welsh rugby just last season.

No weirder than Henson being the poster boy for Wales and then going off on reality shows! Maybe the WRU marketing team should be a bit more careful with who they pick. I guess the Morgan posters have been shelved now and can be filed next to Dewi Morris Laugh

by Guest Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:48 pm

true! They would still love to use him even now I bet (have pity for me, I have to see Gav's face pass by my work on the side of a bus many times throughout the day!)

by Knowsit17 Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:57 pm

Thought it must be another Shingler at first! Smacks of dodginess does this, a few months ago he was giving voice to his hope of playing for Wales, in addition to his joy at playing in the lower levels already. Some exploition of reckless youth by Robinson perhaps chin

On another note now Scarlets will have fully paid the price for not playing him enough while they could and allowing him to be lured away.

by maestegmafia Thu 05 Jan 2012, 1:58 pm

Knowsit17 wrote:Thought it must be another Shingler at first! Smacks of dodginess does this, a few months ago he was giving voice to his hope of playing for Wales, in addition to his joy at playing in the lower levels already. Some exploition of reckless youth by Robinson perhaps

On another note now Scarlets will have fully paid the price for not playing him enough while they could and allowing him to be lured away.

He wasnt actually playing that well for Scarlets or the U20s. So not a huge loss. Looks good at London Irish though.

by Knowsit17 Thu 05 Jan 2012, 2:07 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Knowsit17 wrote:Thought it must be another Shingler at first! Smacks of dodginess does this, a few months ago he was giving voice to his hope of playing for Wales, in addition to his joy at playing in the lower levels already. Some exploition of reckless youth by Robinson perhaps

On another note now Scarlets will have fully paid the price for not playing him enough while they could and allowing him to be lured away.
He wasnt actually playing that well for Scarlets or the U20s. So not a huge loss. Looks good at London Irish though.

Not great for the U20's agreed but who did give a fully promising account of themselves in games like the 92-0 thrashing by NZ? It's as Richard Webster said at the time, it's full of players who barely get a look in at their regions...

I thought he looked good on the few occasions the Scarlets called him up but again that was mainly in the useless LV= formation. Never got given a go where it mattered.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 05 Jan 2012, 2:09 pm

This is what happenes when you sign for an Irish team in England. As a Welshman you inevitably end up playing for Scotland.

by Cymroglan Thu 05 Jan 2012, 2:09 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:Cymroglan,

No, we don't know his reasoning. I think to assume everyone is as cynical as you are making out is a bit depressing.

You obviously have not followed Stevens career or you would be aware that he has gone on record several times about his intentions to play for the Welsh senior side it's even been discussed on this site.

https://www.606v2.com/t18582-steven-shingler-and-ed-siggery

That is why I believe he selected Scotland for professional reasons rather than having any more affinity with them than Wales.

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