Replace LV=Cup with Multi small cups?

My think is to get rid of the LV=Cup and replace it with multi mini cups.

For Welsh teams this would mean the 4 regions play a double header in the Mill Stad near beginging of seaon, with the two winners playing a final later in the season.

Irish Provinces the same, double header in NLR. final later.

The two scottish teams would play each other, and the two Italianseach other, to reach a final (Italian V scottish each year) which alternates between Italy and Scotland each year.

The pro's are the for the Welsh it means less games, could fill Mill Stad twice, prob generating more revenue for them than the LV Cup, and it gives local bragging rights and a trophy. For Irish, Scottish and Italian teams means more revenue and local derbies,

Con's means they only even meet English teams in Europe from then on. For Irish, Scottish and Italian it adds up to two more games to the season.

For English teams the LV cup would be replaced with the same model. All the teams in the Prem and championship, are grouped together in groups of 4 based on locality. So you would have 4 teams within a close proximity of each other play for a cup. Double header then later final. I'll let others who know the location and rivalries with Prem and Championship clubs better than me decide on them.

Pros Less games than LV cup, and more Local derbies, local bragging rights.
Cons don't get to play Welsh team, less games for developing players.

Sorry mate but i think thats pointless. They either stay with the LV or get rid of it all together. I would actually like to see the HC and Amlin expanded to include more side from Europe.

With regards to the LV= and to a point the B&I Cup, if you were to ditch them maybe a Regiona/Provincial/Superclub A team competition would be a good idea, as that is basically what we have in the LV= and B&I Cup.

Initially i thought the LV was a waste of time really. Changed my mind a couple of seasons agao when the Ospreys played Leicester in front of a full house at the Brewery field. Both teams were mainly made up from academy players.

It was peeing down with rain and windy as hell, but the yougsters on show really made a go of it, seeing it as an opportunity to show their skills. A certain Mathhew morgan showed what he was capable of. I dont have a problem with it being used as a development tournament for academy players, i've enjoyed the games i've gone to watch.

I think it should stay but be used solely as a developement tournament with maybe the odd experienced player coming back from injury etc.

Also think that this competition alone should be played during the 6 Nations.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think it should stay but be used solely as a developement tournament with maybe the odd experienced player coming back from injury etc.

Also think that this competition alone should be played during the 6 Nations.

Absolutely the best way forwards for this competition. Right now, it has no reason for being. Make it for A sides/developmental sides and now we have something. Otherwise it has to go away.

The problem with the OP's origional idea is that it has to be played in the international windows. There is nowhere else in the calender to fit it in.

Therefore it will always be contested by weakened teams, whichever countries take part in it.

So you either leave it as is, with some teams blooding youngsters, most teams (and SKY) not really giving a toss and a couple of teams seeing it as a chance for HC qualification.
Or
You scrap it.

Playing a full development/A team tournament would cause problems for Irish teams if during the 6N

Say 8 in the National squad
Say 5 injured
23 for the First XV

36 players total. Our squads including development players are only 38/39 strong. Most would be only 1 or 2 years out of school. Against some 'A' teams that just wouldn't be competitive

They might be just out of school, but its the best way to learn. Like a said Matthew Morgan was given the opportuity to play in the LV, i think he was inly 18 at the time, ended up with the MOM.

In most position yes but putting a 19 year old prop against someone like a Duncan Bell or a Duncan Jones would not be good

geoff998rugby wrote:In most position yes but putting a 19 year old prop against someone like a Duncan Bell or a Duncan Jones would not be good

True. But they've got to start somewhere, one hell of a learning curve i admit. If you have limited options i think that they should play.

Tell that to Ospreys

geoff998rugby wrote:Tell that to Ospreys

ha ha ha. Touche.

geoff998rugby wrote:In most position yes but putting a 19 year old prop against someone like a Duncan Bell or a Duncan Jones would not be good

Hardly any team play props that young though unless they have physically developed quickly.

if they're big enough and ugly enough they should

gowales: The points is that Ulster only have 7 props abvoe their 20 years old or younger age group.

Let say Court and McAllister are in the Irish training camp.
Fitzpatrick is injured.

That means first team is Afoa and Black, bench Macklin and another younster for LH

The A team are Cronin and another younster at LH.

Well mate their professionals and they train to play games. Playing against experienced internationals can only help their development.

geoff998rugby wrote:In most position yes but putting a 19 year old prop against someone like a Duncan Bell or a Duncan Jones would not be good

geoff,

Agree but if it was totally a development tournament then they wouldn't be up against someone of that ilk.

gowales wrote:Well mate their professionals and they train to play games. Playing against experienced internationals can only help their development.

But at Ulster, anyway, they are not professionals that is my point.
They would be kids out of school. In most positions no problem but a schoolboy prop against an old knarled professional is not a good idea

bedfordwelsh wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:In most position yes but putting a 19 year old prop against someone like a Duncan Bell or a Duncan Jones would not be good

geoff,

Agree but if it was totally a development tournament then they wouldn't be up against someone of that ilk.

But if is a genuine A team these are exactly the type of players who they could end up playing against

Howed this go so off topic, it's turned into a 'A' games, for this we have the BandI cup and if the prem teams wish to enter their 'A' teams and the welsh remove the welsh prem teams and enter regional 'A' teams this is a disscussion for another day or thread as this one is not about the BandI cup, nor is it about 'A' teams palyuing each other and squad shortages.

What it is about is doing away with the LV=Cup (nothing to do with the BandI cup) and playing 2 extra games instead, against your local rivals.
IE for england London Irish, harlequins, Sarries, and Wasps may play each other for a cup, instead of taking part in the LV=Cup. Double header at twickerham, then a final between the two winners later.

If your worried about player development this is what the BandI cup is for, and if Prem teams don't have the LV cup for this they may enter 'A' teams into this.

I see no point in the LV Cup continuing in its current guise. At the moment its neither one thing nor another, with some teams just using kids, some of the English sides looking at it as a route in to the HC etc.

I would be all for some form of cup that could be played at the time of the AI's and 6 nations, so taking up say 8 - 10 weekends.

I think it would be good for squad players and emerging youngsters to know that they are going to get at least these games in a season and to target performing in these as a springboard to challenging the regulars.

The problem for this is of course that most of the English sides carry on playing through these periods in the Premiership and I am not sure more disruption would be acceptable.

The Rabo sides could instigate a new 'Celtic Cup' during these times for the squad players, with say 2 Irish, 2 Welsh, 1 Scottish and 1 Italian team in 2 groups with the top 2 in each group playing semi's and finals. Which would give 7 games.

I don't know, I'm waffling now to avoid getting on with work.

Imo though 7 games would be to many for the Irish sides to consider, H-cup, and Pro 12 are enough games seeing as the top players don't play that often in the pro 12 as it is, the BandI cup is for developing players and giving fringe players gametime.

An Inter Pro cup would only add a max of 2 games, and would provide the IRFU with NLR being filled possibly twice (depend on where final is played), and generate funds for the provinces as well. I think that a Double header followed later in the year with a final for best team in Ireland would genenate intrest among fans.

For other teams replace Ireland with Wales/Scotland-Italy/London/midlands/northern teams etc

Use it as development then not A Side.