Finn has got to play, surely?

I've been a big fan of Finn now ever since his debut for England and for me, he has to play in the second test. Now I can see that there is still the view that Finn is incapable of bowling economically, and that is why people want Panesar as the second spinner, or Tremlett as the bowler to bowl a consistent line and length.

Unfortunately, Tremlett is not going to threaten on these pitches. His main weapon of extra bounce is none exsistant on these pitches, and the fact is wickets win you games, not a 2.5 run economy rate. England don't need a second spinner, as for one I don't believe Panesar is going to threaten the Pakistani batsmen, they see his kind of bowling throughout their career. However, for me Steve Finn deserves his place in the test side. For once, he has added a yard of pace to his bowling, moving from an average of 84-86, to 88-90 mph. That is some serious pace from a man who is well over 6 ft 5, and for me will bring intimidation if anything. For me, people have to stop calling Finn incapable of bowling consistently. In the disastrous ODI series with India, he proved he could bowl consistently at 90mph and bowling line length ball after ball. He was by far the best bowler in that series and has to play. I would stick with Morgan because I don't believe there is anyone to step in at this current time who could do a better job. Bopara just isn't up to the task of test cricket, and should just be used for ODI's if you ask me. Steve Davies is no better than Eoin Morgan in my opinion, so I would make one change for the second test:

1.A.Strauss
2.A.Cook
3.J.Trott
4.KP
5.I.Bell
6.E.Morgan
7.M.Prior
8.G.Swann
9.S.Broad
10.J.Anderson
11.S.Finn

But Umar Gul will take apart his down the leg-side generous long-hops bowling with huge sixes just as he did during the 2010 Test Series in England.

I would love to see Finn play. His form during the tour of India was brilliant.

Whilst I don't think England need to make any changes to the batsmen, I think a change to the batting order would be a good move. I personally fell that Prior is good enough to bat at 4. Pietersen down to 6 and Morgan to 7. Prior just looks so good at the crease, 7 seems a waste to me.

gboycottnut,

that's exactly the view I think cannot be attributed to Finn anymore. Yes, I completely agree with you back in 2010, but its two years on and Finn is completely a different bowler.

demon,

I was thinking of moving Prior up and Morgan down but I don't think it makes much of a difference. the line up has worked for the last 18 months there's no need to change it. If KP comes in at 6, then he'll be coming in when the spinners are in full flow and the ball is old, and he's a man who for me needs the ball to be newish in order to play himself in. Once he's in, he then seems to play the spinners with greater control. Saying that, Pakistan get their spinners on quite early so maybe that doesn't make a difference with KP

martyr_94 wrote:
demon,

I was thinking of moving Prior up and Morgan down but I don't think it makes much of a difference. the line up has worked for the last 18 months there's no need to change it. If KP comes in at 6, then he'll be coming in when the spinners are in full flow and the ball is old, and he's a man who for me needs the ball to be newish in order to play himself in. Once he's in, he then seems to play the spinners with greater control. Saying that, Pakistan get their spinners on quite early so maybe that doesn't make a difference with KP

I get what you mean about KP and spin, but overall he's a good player of spin. His main problem would be Rehman, but he should be able to sort out a pretty average bowler like that out. I really enjoy watching Prior, and often he loses his wicket for the team, so him up the order would be nice!

I can't see England changing things after one match especially when bowling wasn't the problem. I know Tremlett didn't get any wickets but he wasn't exactly awful was he? If he doesn't do much in the next match then Finn may well come in, I don't think we'll play Monty. This is all a bit of a moot point tbh as if the batsmen don't sort themselves out it doesn't matter which bowlers we pick.

Demon Racer wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:
demon,

I was thinking of moving Prior up and Morgan down but I don't think it makes much of a difference. the line up has worked for the last 18 months there's no need to change it. If KP comes in at 6, then he'll be coming in when the spinners are in full flow and the ball is old, and he's a man who for me needs the ball to be newish in order to play himself in. Once he's in, he then seems to play the spinners with greater control. Saying that, Pakistan get their spinners on quite early so maybe that doesn't make a difference with KP

I get what you mean about KP and spin, but overall he's a good player of spin. His main problem would be Rehman, but he should be able to sort out a pretty average bowler like that out. I really enjoy watching Prior, and often he loses his wicket for the team, so him up the order would be nice!

Yeah I agree with you about KP and spin, and personally I would rather see him go after people like Ajmal, Rehman and Hafeez, because I'd rather him get out for 42 off 42 balls than 2 off 20, and I think if plays the spinners more positively, he'll reap the awards. Only Prior, Swann and Anderson to a certain extent went after the spinners and reaped the rewards

Carrotdude wrote:I can't see England changing things after one match especially when bowling wasn't the problem. I know Tremlett didn't get any wickets but he wasn't exactly awful was he? If he doesn't do much in the next match then Finn may well come in, I don't think we'll play Monty. This is all a bit of a moot point tbh as if the batsmen don't sort themselves out it doesn't matter which bowlers we pick.

I didn't think Tremlett bowled badly, but I think on these wickets he won't get many wickets, because he doesn't have that raw wicket taking ability needed. I can't see England changing anything either, I think they'll want to show they are together as a team and are not going to make rash changes after one defeat. Batters have got to bat better, simple's.

How about moving Pietersen to 3, Trott to 4, Prior to 5 and Bell to 6?

gboycottnut wrote:How about moving Pietersen to 3, Trott to 4, Prior to 5 and Bell to 6?

That could work, but Trott has been unreal at no.3.

Demon Racer wrote:I would love to see Finn play. His form during the tour of India was brilliant.

Whilst I don't think England need to make any changes to the batsmen, I think a change to the batting order would be a good move. I personally fell that Prior is good enough to bat at 4. Pietersen down to 6 and Morgan to 7. Prior just looks so good at the crease, 7 seems a waste to me.

Pietersen at 6? That is ludicrous for a batsman that averages nigh on 50 in Test cricket. He is a number 4, and his 'weakness' to spin is much overhyped. He has consistently done a job there for England, and I have no reason to believe that he won't continue to do so. Such changes are incredibly radical for what was, after all, just one bad Test for the first time in a long while.

Fists of Fury wrote:

Demon Racer wrote:I would love to see Finn play. His form during the tour of India was brilliant.

Whilst I don't think England need to make any changes to the batsmen, I think a change to the batting order would be a good move. I personally fell that Prior is good enough to bat at 4. Pietersen down to 6 and Morgan to 7. Prior just looks so good at the crease, 7 seems a waste to me.

Pietersen at 6? That is ludicrous for a batsman that averages nigh on 50 in Test cricket. He is a number 4, and his 'weakness' to spin is much overhyped. He has consistently done a job there for England, and I have no reason to believe that he won't continue to do so. Such changes are incredibly radical for what was, after all, just one bad Test for the first time in a long while.

Averages are all relative FoF. In recent times Trott, Cook, Bell and Prior have all been more consistent than Pietersen. Average of 50 or not, Prior(in my mind) is currently better than Pietersen. You may have forgotten, but until Pietersen scored 227 at Adelaide, he wet 2 years without a Test ton. He promptly pummeled India for 202* and 175, but Pietersen is peaks and troughs kind of batsman. Prior is more a consistency batsman.

Sorry, but Prior has had one better Test than Pietersen in God knows how long. Trust me, he isn't a better batsman.

I just dont see Finn vs Tremlett as that importnat really. It does nothing to answer any of the problems England have had.
He may do a bit better than Tremlett did, he may not. It wont help Andrew Strauss' batting average either way.

Tremlett has a niggle apparently so Finn may get his chance after all.

They will not re-shuffle the batting order and quite rightly.

Morgan MAY make way but that's about it.

trmelett is out with back and side injury.

cricketfan90 wrote:trmelett is out with back and side injury.

A bad haircut?

lol as i wrote that i knew someone would say it

Ha, very droll, PSW.

cricketfan90 wrote:lol as i wrote that i knew someone would say it

Lets face it is was always going to be me wasnt it.


Still the two spinners question is open, then from that is it 4 or 5 bwolers is panessar does play.

And Morgan vs Bopara.

But I think most of us expect tehy wuill simply subsitute Tremlett for Finn. At leats England can start thinking about using the injuries excuse now.

I think that on what should be a very flat pitch.
That Onions will/should replace Tremlett, as his wicket to wicket style would be ideal in looking for lbw's, and using drs.