Scotland: Where to from here? - the Non Wum Thread

[George Carlin]

Although as predictable as indigestion following Christmas, the inevitable abuse and high-pitched squeals of condescension, vitriol and sweaty excitement at England's victory on these boards have pushed me past the point of irritation and so I thought I would start a board to try to calmly talk about where Scotland go from here.

As a starter for ten, the following came from Mr Iain Morrison in the Scotland on Sunday in his piece about how the game was won or lost:

"1. The obvious answer

IT’S easy to point the finger at Dan Parks and sure enough the stand-off did not have a brilliant game. He kicked too much ball aimlessly downfield, inviting Ben Foden to counter attack and then, just as Scotland were tightening their grip on proceedings, his charged down clearance kick turned the tide in England’s favour. Parks has a distinctive low, sideways kicking style that invites the chargedown and Charlie Hodgson was alert to the situation. Had it happened anywhere else on the field it might not have mattered but five yards from his own try line and on a day when tries were at a premium it was always going to be a costly mistake. Just because it is the obvious answer doesn’t make it the wrong one.


2. The English defence

WHILE all the focus in Scotland will narrow in on their team’s inability to score tries (sorry, to score a try) credit must go to the English defence that threw bodies at feet and kept good line speed throughout this game so that, even at the death, Al Kellock was still pressured into conceding a penalty at the breakdown allowing Owen Farrell to ensure that England, at worst, would come away with a draw.

Chris Robshaw led the effort but Brad Barritt put in some hits and, although he was targeted remorselessly, Hodgson stood up well to the Scottish runners.


3. Mistakes

WHEN you don’t have Brian O’Driscoll in the backline to conjure up a little moment of individual magic then you rely upon consistent pressure eventually causing a mistake in the opposition line but all too often the Scots’ handling let them down. Every time someone in a blue shirt knocked on, and it happened a lot in that second half, it raises the siege, gives the defence a breather and a chance to realign and reasses the danger in front of them. All too often the Scots got themselves into a promising situation but, typical of a team that has found tries hard to come by, they lacked patience in the England red zone and all too often they gave the visitors an easy “out”.


4. Chris Cusiter

THE scrum-half is the kind of wholehearted nine that you’d want on your side, his tenacity won one penalty from Chris Ashton in the first half, but his core skills have never been the best and yesterday his service could be timed with a sundial. It was also a little erratic, with passes going above head height and some around the ankles, which matters when the backline need every split second they can get if they are to find a way through or around a well-organised defence. If Andy Robinson and Gregor Townsend call upon Greig Laidlaw or Duncan Weir to start at stand-off against Wales next Sunday then they will probably partner him with a scrum-half who boasts a slicker service than Cusiter.


5. Finishing

TWO years ago in Cardiff, Sean Lamont delayed his pass to Kelly Brown by a split second and the flanker had nosed in front of him and the ball was called forward. Had it stood that try would surely have ended Welsh resistance there and then. In similar fashion Ross Rennie, one of the stand-out players on the field, made a clean break in England’s half of the field with the final quarter well under way. He had Laidlaw and Blair in support on his left and only fullback Ben Foden to beat. The Englishman did well to attack the player because once Blair was past him there would have been no stopping the scrum-half. Like Lamont the flanker delayed his pass by a nanosecond and Foden’s interfering hand, which could have been called a professional foul by another referee, was only given as a knock-on by George Clancy. At the time Scotland were trailing by four points and a try under the sticks would have put them in the driving seat with the clock working for, rather than against them."

So in summary then (on the basis that our friend from the Ospreys is not turning up until the summer):

1. Scotland's backs need to calm the hell down, not force things and play their own percentages better with Jones to stay and Ansbro to return if fit;
   
2. Scotland's loose forwards need to keep doing what they're doing - the combination of Rennie, Kelly or Al and Denton working nicely;
   
3. Cus and Parks must be replaced by Blair and Laidlaw with a view to them playing the whole 80;
   
4. If we want a distributor at 12, Matt Scott's try against the Saxons suggest he should be considered seriously;
   
5. We need to decide right now what kind of rugby team we want to be but to continue to do more of the same is madness and for once provides a valid criterion for suggesting Robinson needs to look closely over his shoulder at potential successors.

What are your thoughts?

Anyone wumming, providing abuse, anything unconstructive or the like will be deleted - plenty of other threads for you to fill your boots on in that department.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Hit the nail on the head.

I said on the Saxonx V Scotland A thread that our backline looked better for the saxons match than it did for England.

Backline for Wales : Blair, Laidlaw, Scott, NDL, Jones, S Lamont, Hogg

[bedfordwelsh]

Scottish backs should have scored some of those chances yesterday simple as, yes Englands defence and discipline was good but no excuse.

Denton had a fantastic game and at 21 t(today) is adding to the great number of back row forwards in the NH.

Parks has to go now and he must put his hand up and accept the blame, his kicking even before the charge down was poor.

[rodders]

The big problem for me yesterday was the breakdown. Scotland were far too slow to the tackle area and didn't commit enough numbers. England turned over and disrupted far too much of their ball. The Scottish forwards were far to lazy in this respect.

Cusiter was poor at 9 and his service was far too slow. However his forwards were not protecting him at the rucks. There seemed to be a disconnect between him and the pack. Countless times he called for the ball or wanted it from the maul but his pack ignored him.

Parks was very poor and you can't possibly attack if he is so deep and the ball is slow. I simply can't understand what Scotlands gameplan was.

If they picked Parks surely they should of played territorially and used the rolling maul and played through the pack. Instead they tried to move the ball wide with slow ball and the backs 10m behind the gainline.

There is no gameplan and no leadership and questions need to be asked of Robinson and Townsend. It was an awful performance.

[eirebilly]

Totally agree rodders. The support play from Scotland was dire. England were seriously there for the taking so i feel that Scotland has missed a huge opportunity.

[HammerofThunor]

Scotland are turning into England under Robinson. The A team look good and 'would beat the 1st team'. Make breaks but do nothing with them. Have a great tactical kicker who stops doing even that.. Generally lazy at breakdown.
One of their best players was from Southern Africa.

You just need to appoint a self-serving Elite Performance Director, go through about 3 more coaches (after Robinson), get drunk at a world cup....and then you'll be in the same spot as you are now.

Oh and you may get a new winger who seems to make a difference, is lauded as one of the best wingers in the world, and then lose form.

[eirebilly]

Scotland are turning into England under Robinson. The A team look good and 'would beat the 1st team'. Make breaks but do nothing with them. Have a great tactical kicker who stops doing even that.. Generally lazy at breakdown.
One of their best players was from Southern Africa.

You just need to appoint a self-serving Elite Performance Director, go through about 3 more coaches (after Robinson), get drunk at a world cup....and then you'll be in the same spot as you are now.

Oh and you may get a new winger who seems to make a difference, is lauded as one of the best wingers in the world, and then lose form.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Some one has to pay for last night debacle with their Job. I would Start from Parks and work my way up the tree.

Parks shwould have had the sense to retire from INternational rugby with Paterson and Hines. Instead his last act in a Navy Blue Shirt will be one of utter stupidity.

If he is ever selected again the coach who selects him should be sacked on the spot.

If injuries prevent anyone else from playing Fly Half, Alan Jacobson should be in contention before Dan Parks.

[rodders]

I'm surprised the finger hasn't been pointed at Townsend more? Hes the backs coach right?

Why did they play Parks if they were going to move the ball wide? Bizarre.

That said the problems started at the breakdown and the went backwards from there. With Andy Robinson as coach you'd expect a better work ethic at least and forwards more willing to roll their sleeves up.

The likes of Grey look great when carrying out wide but hes too slow and upright when hitting rucks. Rennie too was very poor.

Too many tight 5 forwards just loitering around waiting to carry when Cusitor needed them to clear out the rucks.

[KickAndChase]

I do agree that our forwards, in strange form, were not great either.

Unfortunately I cannot look beyond the inexcusable pick of Dan Parks (not Parks' fault - and he can retire from internationals when he wants) before I point the finger at anything else on the park.

I wouldn't mind losing matches if we seemed to be moving forwards or 'building something' ... but we're not. Our results are poor and NOBODY , from ANY of the 6 nations , can say that right now we look a threat in the future.

This is a sad, sad day for Scottish rugby because at the very least we had that latter point to cling on to in the past. Especially seeing as in terms of club rugby this has been a comparably great season for the Scottish clubs.

Townsend has to go. And I'd put a ticking timebomb on Robinson too ... he's got till the end of the 6 nations to somehow turn this around. I still stand by that not finishing at least 4th is , like Parks' selection, inexcusable and the straw to break the camel's back.

[LondonTiger]

Oh and you may get a new winger who seems to make a difference, is lauded as one of the best wingers in the world, and then lose form.

When does Tim Visser qualify?

[rodders]

I do agree that our forwards, in strange form, were not great either.

I thought the set piece went well and there was some very good carrying particularly from the no 8 (Vernon?) who was the best player on the pitch.

However you simply have to secure your own ball at the breakdown. The amount of times they got turned over and disrupted was criminal. Parks was awful and Cusiter poor but even if Scotland had Genia and Carter at half back they'd have struggled to produce meaningful attacks with the ruck ball they were getting.

The problems can be rectified for Scotland but year after year its the same story so you do wonder what the players and coaches are flipping doing in training. Its basic stuff.

[PJHolybloke]

Scotland are producing some genuine talent right now, they HAVE some genuinely talented players available for selection but they're not getting picked.

Robinson has to go I think.

[gowales]

I wouldn't say there is genuine talent coming through. They are playing well at club level but that is completely different to international rugby.

[HammerofThunor]

Oh and you may get a new winger who seems to make a difference, is lauded as one of the best wingers in the world, and then lose form.

When does Tim Visser qualify?

[majesticimperialman]

In the words od Brian More. It is back to the drawing board for Scotland for the next game.

[ChequeredJersey]

I do agree that our forwards, in strange form, were not great either.

I thought the set piece went well and there was some very good carrying particularly from the no 8 (Vernon?) who was the best player on the pitch.

However you simply have to secure your own ball at the breakdown. The amount of times they got turned over and disrupted was criminal. Parks was awful and Cusiter poor but even if Scotland had Genia and Carter at half back they'd have struggled to produce meaningful attacks with the ruck ball they were getting.

The problems can be rectified for Scotland but year after year its the same story so you do wonder what the players and coaches are flipping doing in training. Its basic stuff.

Apparently that's because we were cheating and the referee wasn't pinging us. I always thought that was the point of the breakdown

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Resign please Robinson -take Townsend with you. Michael Bradley and Sean Lineen please SRU. Mighty Mouse pse have Robinson report to you tomorrow morning and get him to jump before you have to push him.

We blew over 600 readies on that pitiful dross (from both teams) so I intend to sue the feckers !

[Biltong]

I don't think the main problem is Parks. Yes he made a mistake yesterday, but that is not why Scotland keep on losing matches they should in fact win.

It is the effectiveness of the back line.

Start by getting a coach who can focus the guys on where to find space, how to run angles, when to offload, and how to run a supporting run angle.

[geoff999rugby]

The English defence was not good it was poor but the Scottish attack was poorer. The number of mistakes made by Scottish players was unbelievable - handling, running lines, intensity at the breakdown and support were all abysmal. Inspite of that they were still the better team !

They lost to a team with many novices finding their feet who were there for the taking.

Robinson and Parks have to go - neither should darken the doors of Scottish rugby ever again.

What happened to Jacobsen - he was destroyed by Cole in the scrums and an area of suppossed Scottish strength was an area of weakness.

Denton was superb, Gray was excellent.

Looking at the fixtures Wales, Ireland, Italy away and France at home Scotland could easily pick up the wooden spoon unless drastic improvements are made

[Imperialbigdave]

I don't think the main problem is Parks. Yes he made a mistake yesterday, but that is not why Scotland keep on losing matches they should in fact win.

It is the effectiveness of the back line.

Start by getting a coach who can focus the guys on where to find space, how to run angles, when to offload, and how to run a supporting run angle.

Thats exactly why hes the problem. He cant get players outside him into space because of his ridiculous style of static distribution.

[gowales]

But even when Godman and Ruaridh Jackson were at 10 you still looked limited

[123456789]

Parks has to go, Laidlaw came on and scored a try (he had downward pressure) we had chances to do thing but Parks mucked them up. If you want to play an expansive game don't play Parks if the game plan had been more suited to him he would have dropped goals and we would have won but let's be honest he is a truly shocking player and surely won't be picked again.

[Biltong]

I don't think the main problem is Parks. Yes he made a mistake yesterday, but that is not why Scotland keep on losing matches they should in fact win.

It is the effectiveness of the back line.

Start by getting a coach who can focus the guys on where to find space, how to run angles, when to offload, and how to run a supporting run angle.

Thats exactly why hes the problem. He cant get players outside him into space because of his ridiculous style of static distribution.

I don't agree, if you look at the final passes that went amiss yesterday, it wasn't dan parks who messed them up. It was in general play.

[RDW]

Right, here's my thoughts - there's a few posts going about just now but thought I'd put it in this one!

1 - When the team was announced I was going to give Parks the benefit of the doubt and support him, but yesterday he was awful. He was picked to do a job and didn't do it, should have been hooked at half time.

2 - Get Laidlaw training with the backline all week and Weir doing the same. Jiffy said Laidlaw looked like a headless chicken but I don't think he was helped by the backline, and forwards, weren't really in tune with what he wanted to do.

3 - Bring back Blair too. He has his faults, but Cusiter was extremely slow with the ball yesterday.

4 - How bad was that first half???

5 - I like Laidlaw's swagger and almost arrogance in his abilities. He thought he'd scored and wouldn't budge until the ref gave his decision. Even though teh England guys were lining up for a 22 he wasn't giving up his ground. What balls to come on for your first international game at 10 (and 3rd cap) and within 5 minutes have the vision to chip and chase and almost score.

6 - Keep Rennie and Denton fit at all costs!

7 - persuade Matt Scott that he's not going to be a lawyer for another 12 years so he can play this 6 nations instead of study.

8 - the atmosphere was fantastic and how people keep coming back to watch such dross I don't know. I've barely missed a game in years and I have no idea why I keep going back. Scotland needs to get some results soon or else people might start giving up on the team.

9 - Robinson should have put his hands up and said he got it wrong.

[eirebilly]

Parks passing wasnt the problem, he actually did set the centres up well. His positional kicking and that mad 5 minutes were very ordinary.

[PJHolybloke]

Right, here's my thoughts - there's a few posts going about just now but thought I'd put it in this one!

1 - When the team was announced I was going to give Parks the benefit of the doubt and support him, but yesterday he was awful. He was picked to do a job and didn't do it, should have been hooked at half time.

2 - Get Laidlaw training with the backline all week and Weir doing the same. Jiffy said Laidlaw looked like a headless chicken but I don't think he was helped by the backline, and forwards, weren't really in tune with what he wanted to do.

3 - Bring back Blair too. He has his faults, but Cusiter was extremely slow with the ball yesterday.

4 - How bad was that first half???

5 - I like Laidlaw's swagger and almost arrogance in his abilities. He thought he'd scored and wouldn't budge until the ref gave his decision. Even though teh England guys were lining up for a 22 he wasn't giving up his ground. What balls to come on for your first international game at 10 (and 3rd cap) and within 5 minutes have the vision to chip and chase and almost score.

6 - Keep Rennie and Denton fit at all costs!

7 - persuade Matt Scott that he's not going to be a lawyer for another 12 years so he can play this 6 nations instead of study.

8 - the atmosphere was fantastic and how people keep coming back to watch such dross I don't know. I've barely missed a game in years and I have no idea why I keep going back. Scotland needs to get some results soon or else people might start giving up on the team.

9 - Robinson should have put his hands up and said he got it wrong.

A fair summing up RDW, I absolutely believe Scotland are close to having a very strong 1st XV, agree 100% with Laidlaw and Weir, Denton was excellent, as was Rennie, Hogg should be in the mix, Visser will be SQ soon, it's really nowhere near as bad as some Scotland fans are suggesting.

Robinson is a good coach, when I say coach I mean exactly that, he coaches players well and gets the best out of them, but that's only really relevant at club level when you're working with your own players day-in day-out, at Test level you need to be a good manager and a great strategist and that's where Robinson fails. I think it's time for him to move on and let someone else take Scotland forward.

[Pat_Mustard]

Right, here's my thoughts - there's a few posts going about just now but thought I'd put it in this one!

1 - When the team was announced I was going to give Parks the benefit of the doubt and support him, but yesterday he was awful. He was picked to do a job and didn't do it, should have been hooked at half time.

2 - Get Laidlaw training with the backline all week and Weir doing the same. Jiffy said Laidlaw looked like a headless chicken but I don't think he was helped by the backline, and forwards, weren't really in tune with what he wanted to do.

3 - Bring back Blair too. He has his faults, but Cusiter was extremely slow with the ball yesterday.

4 - How bad was that first half???

5 - I like Laidlaw's swagger and almost arrogance in his abilities. He thought he'd scored and wouldn't budge until the ref gave his decision. Even though teh England guys were lining up for a 22 he wasn't giving up his ground. What balls to come on for your first international game at 10 (and 3rd cap) and within 5 minutes have the vision to chip and chase and almost score.

6 - Keep Rennie and Denton fit at all costs!

7 - persuade Matt Scott that he's not going to be a lawyer for another 12 years so he can play this 6 nations instead of study.

8 - the atmosphere was fantastic and how people keep coming back to watch such dross I don't know. I've barely missed a game in years and I have no idea why I keep going back. Scotland needs to get some results soon or else people might start giving up on the team.

9 - Robinson should have put his hands up and said he got it wrong.

+1.

Point 7 is key to me, Parks was terrible (all game long, not just for the charge down) but to an extent it doesn't matter who we have at 10 if we have a one-dimensional inside centre. Weir hasn't been creating many tries for Glasgow this season but look what happened with Scott outside him on Friday. When was the last time Scotland played a passing 12? About the last time we were able to score tries consistently I think! I do respect Scott's decision to stick with his studies, if that is the reason, but would love to see him in the Scotland squad for next week. Doesn't matter that he hasn't been training with the squad for the last couple of weeks, he did alright with the A's having never played with Weir before, and he has been playing with Laidlaw and De Luca all season.

It was blatantly obvious before the game that Parks was the wrong selection, the only person not to realise this was Robinson (and possibly Townsend), claiming in the press that he could play attacking rugby, and citing the Wales game in 2010. He obviously didn't see the irony in the fact that he had to go back two years to find a game in which Parks created tries. To be honest I feel sorry for Parks, he is a very limited player but we knew that already and it's not his fault he keeps getting picked. I am now convinced that he will not be selected again and either Laidlaw or Weir will start next week. This is the only way Robinson can keep his job. If Parks is in the 22 again Robinson is gone, simple as that, and I will lose my mind completely.

So for Wales I would go with

Hogg
S Lamont
De Luca
Scott
Jones/Evans
Laidlaw
Blair

Jacobsen
Ford
Cross
Gray
Hamilton
Strokosch
Rennie
Denton

S Lawson
Welsh
Kellock
Harley/McInally
Weir
Evans
R Lamont

Hogg was outstanding for the A's, Laidlaw and Blair are effective in attack if they train with that lineup all week, Laidlaw's vision, calm head and ability to spot defensive weaknesses are what we need. Also having two scrum halves on means they can always get the ball away from the breakdown quickly, this is a great advantage to Edinburgh and can be for Scotland too. I don't agree with those calling for Evans to move in to 13, I'm not a fan of him there as he never passes. We should go with the established Edinburgh combo. I'm sounding like a biased Edinburgh fan here but I'm really not, honest! Would have S Lamont on one wing, don't mind which of Jones or Evans is on the other, they both brought different strengths to the game yesterday. Would probably err towards Jones as he will improve with more Test matches.

No Murray as it's a Sunday so Cross starts, Murray wasn't great yesterday anyway. Welsh on good form at the moment so comes on to the bench. Hamilton didn't have his best game but Kellock wasn't great either when he came on so keeping the locks the same. Don't agree with those calling for Barclay in place of Strokosch, Barclay is a 7 and nothing else. Rennie was good enough to keep his place if he can learn to pass a bit earlier, he doesn't make those mistakes with Edinburgh so I'm satisfied it was a one-off. If people want Strokosch out (I didn't think he was too bad but nothing spectacular) then Denton could move to 6 with Vernon, McInally or Wilson at 8. Please nobody out of position!

Not sure who I would go for as back row on the bench, not a fan of Barclay covering 6 and 8 so would probably go with either McInally or Harley. Can do without another scrum half on the bench as Laidlaw can cover. I would have Weir covering ten and would have absolutely no worries about bringing him on after Friday's performance. M Evans and R Lamont, I know they are both back three players but to me they provide the best cover for all the backs positions (S Lamont covering 12 if necessary). Or we could drop one of those two and go with a 5/2 split with Barclay or another prop coming on to the bench.

We still have a chance of winning at least a couple of games if Robinson has the sense to make the required changes. I'll be at the France game in 3 weeks and hopefully things will be looking brighter by then.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

'the atmosphere was fantastic and how people keep coming back to watch such dross I don't know. I've barely missed a game in years and I have no idea why I keep going back. Scotland needs to get some results soon or else people might start giving up on the team.´

Aye but do you really want to be the one who didn´t turn up to the ground on the day the Scottish team really clicks and get it right? Could you live with yourself?

Scotland lost the game but in typical fashion, they can probably take more out of that game than England. The Parks experiment should be well and truly closed up and though the S Lamont experiment didn't work, it should get a run with somebody more adventurous at 10 and a quicker service than what Cusiter provided. The backs need handling and passing and drawing practice but we already knew this and the forwards achieved a pass rate so all in all Scotland can improve on this performance. A win would´ve meant a reluctance to change the team. The loss shows that change is indeed required so really this loss might help Scotland in the tournament in the long run.

[english warrior]

Wooden spoon, laconic, but truthful, and not a WUM!!

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Not sure if Cross should get the nod over Welsh at present Pat. Welsh is in terrific form at present. How is Cross for Edinburgh ? Thought Jones had a reasonable debut yesterday. Yup - agreed with all the others and most of all no more Desperate feckin Dan ! Craig Chalmers bit in the Sunday herald interesting today- last chance saloon for some of the players and all !

ROBINSON MUST GO

[miteyironpaw]

Scotland lost the game but in typical fashion, they can probably take more out of that game than England.

England won their first away game at Murrayfield for an age. That is something to take away. We made one chance, and took it, another thing to take away.

The most important thing we can take away, is the points for a win in this years 6N.

A tricky first outing, successfully negotiated and now we should expect to turn up the pace and show what we can do against the Italians. We should legitimately expect a big win next week to put out a marker for the tough closing run.

Not sure how everyone is seeing this as a moral victory for Scotland - they haven't moved on at all from last year. England have!

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

English, agree but on that display you will be fifth !

[Pat_Mustard]

Not sure if Cross should get the nod over Welsh at present Pat. Welsh is in terrific form at present. How is Cross for Edinburgh ? Thought Jones had a reasonable debut yesterday. Yup - agreed with all the others and most of all no more Desperate feckin Dan ! Craig Chalmers bit in the Sunday herald interesting today- last chance saloon for some of the players and all !

ROBINSON MUST GO

But Welsh is a loosehead, if he was in it would be in place of Jacobsen. Maybe he does deserve that on current form, Jacobsen wasn't as good in the scrum as I hoped yesterday. Cross did pretty well for Edinburgh in their last Heineken Cup game, outplaying Corbisiero in a way Murray couldn't yesterday.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

Well not quite the try fest you were predicting miteyironpaw. A charge down score isn´t quite what you had in mind. You thought England could dominate but that's hard to do when you have so little possession.

I agree the important thing for England is that they got the points. Barritt looked composed and England have returning players coming back before the next difficult match against Wales at home. But do you honestly think on the strength of that display, you've sent out a message of intent to Ireland, Wales or France?

Scotland were poor but playing poorly they were´n´t thumped by England. Change a few personnel to the Scottish team and things might well improve. England won´t want to tinker too much with their team and will gladly take some injured players back but really their game has a lot of improvement if they are going to be serious contenders.

The fact that England have had so much trouble at Murrayfield in recent times did not make this a difficult game. Nor should Italy be a difficult prospect next week. Those are games England should win with no problems. The difficult games lie ahead in the second half of the tournament and England has a lot of room for improvement if they are going to do well in those.

[miteyironpaw]

Well not quite the try fest you were predicting miteyironpaw. A charge down score isn´t quite what you had in mind. You thought England could dominate but that's hard to do when you have so little possession.

I agree the important thing for England is that they got the points. Barritt looked composed and England have returning players coming back before the next difficult match against Wales at home. But do you honestly think on the strength of that display, you've sent out a message of intent to Ireland, Wales or France?

Scotland were poor but playing poorly they were´n´t thumped by England. Change a few personnel to the Scottish team and things might well improve. England won´t want to tinker too much with their team and will gladly take some injured players back but really their game has a lot of improvement if they are going to be serious contenders.

The fact that England have had so much trouble at Murrayfield in recent times did not make this a difficult game. Nor should Italy be a difficult prospect next week. Those are games England should win with no problems. The difficult games lie ahead in the second half of the tournament and England has a lot of room for improvement if they are going to do well in those.

Maybe not, I admit. But we saw enough from England to know that at some point in this 6N they will cut loose. Especially when our first choice players are back. Can't overestimate what an effect the weather played as well as the questionable adjudication of the ruck particularly when England were defending. I thought Scotland were guilty of sealing off and preventing our specialist scavengers from fetching the ball back for us. For the little possession we were allowed, we engineered enough to know that when the likes of Tuilagi are back to give Ashton and Foden someone to run off, we'll be too much for anybody else in the tournament.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

I can´t fault your optimism. Time will tell. The important thing for England is they have time to build for their important games and get their influential players back.

Anyway, off to see the Irish game. Wearing an Irish jersey so let´s see if that puts the hex on them!

Poker, superbowl and insanity await. We men are simple creatures but I want to hug that simplicity every so often.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Well not quite the try fest you were predicting miteyironpaw. A charge down score isn´t quite what you had in mind. You thought England could dominate but that's hard to do when you have so little possession.

I agree the important thing for England is that they got the points. Barritt looked composed and England have returning players coming back before the next difficult match against Wales at home. But do you honestly think on the strength of that display, you've sent out a message of intent to Ireland, Wales or France?

Scotland were poor but playing poorly they were´n´t thumped by England. Change a few personnel to the Scottish team and things might well improve. England won´t want to tinker too much with their team and will gladly take some injured players back but really their game has a lot of improvement if they are going to be serious contenders.

The fact that England have had so much trouble at Murrayfield in recent times did not make this a difficult game. Nor should Italy be a difficult prospect next week. Those are games England should win with no problems. The difficult games lie ahead in the second half of the tournament and England has a lot of room for improvement if they are going to do well in those.

Maybe not, I admit. But we saw enough from England to know that at some point in this 6N they will cut loose. Especially when our first choice players are back. Can't overestimate what an effect the weather played as well as the questionable adjudication of the ruck particularly when England were defending. I thought Scotland were guilty of sealing off and preventing our specialist scavengers from fetching the ball back for us. For the little possession we were allowed, we engineered enough to know that when the likes of Tuilagi are back to give Ashton and Foden someone to run off, we'll be too much for anybody else in the tournament.

mitey, I admire your optimism, but I honestly don't see where you're going to get the ball to "cut loose" - Scotland didn't have their best day at the breakdown, and other packs are as strong or better than ours in that area

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

So for Wales I would go with

Hogg
S LamontJones
De Luca
Scott
Jones/EvansS Lamont
Laidlaw
Blair

Jacobsen
Ford
Cross
Gray
Hamilton
Strokosch
Rennie
Denton

S Lawson
Welch
Kellock
Harley/McInallyBarclay
Weir
EvansAnsbro (if fit)
R Lamont

[TJ1]

But even when Godman and Ruaridh Jackson were at 10 you still looked limited

they are Poopie as well.

Weir an laidlaw have been keeping hem out for Glasgow and Edinburgh

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