Welsh team vs England discussion

by Guest Sun 12 Feb 2012, 5:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

Right then, a somewhat unconvincing first half performance, but came out firing in the 2nd, personally I thought Shingler did alright coming in as a late replacement, but he is no 7, if it were up to me I'd have him at 6 if anywhere.

I thought our back line played pretty well today, even Hook showing nice hands if sometimes a bit indecisive.

Hopefully North, Warburton and Tipuric will be fit for the next match, so who would you keep and who would you drop?

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:30 am

Okay, let's stick to rugby: Tigers and Saints fans would welcome a midlands regional side, would they?

by HERSH Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:33 am

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Okay, let's stick to rugby: Tigers and Saints fans would welcome a midlands regional side, would they?

No, but the RFU aren't stupid enough (yet) to think that this would be a good idea, unlike the WRU.

by RubyGuby Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:34 am

Now now Hersh let's not forget that the media had to change it's banner headline from the "UK riots" last year to the "English riots" such is the harmony over there - I see more riots after next weekend - Hwyl Fawr thumbsup

by HERSH Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:36 am

But there was a very small riot in Cardiff and a shop window got broke.

People seem to forget this F A C T!

by Dai Tryin Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:36 am

Dai

How is my views racial bile, I've lived in some of these places and seen it first hand, some of them can't stand each other purely because they live in the next valley or on past events many years ago, hence why the Regions will never work in Wales.

Wow, so one mans experience not only qualifies you to pass judgement on all of the regions in Wales but also an make a sweeping generalisation about a whole race of people...you certainly have a high opinion of yourself, I assumed you were an intelligent man, I will certainly not repeat the mistake.

by HERSH Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:37 am

Is Wales a race?

I would have thought they were British?

by Cowshot Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:52 am

We all deal in generalisations and even stereotypes to some extent. The English are arrogant. The Welsh are chippy. The Scots are miserable and the Irish are insane. The French are all of the above and the Italians are roadbumps.

And probably any of us who have lived in any of the other countries for any length of time have been on the receiving end of racist abuse at some time or another. Occasionally it gets genuinely nasty. It's worth remembering that the vast bulk of us get on pretty well. As the product of an Anglo-Irish marriage I can say that with some authority! Very Happy

Taking the mickey out of eachother is infinitely preferable to shooting eachother.

by HERSH Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:55 am

Well said, my friend.

Some people take this banter far too seriously.

God I love this time of year.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:59 am

HERSH wrote:Well said, my friend.

Some people take this banter far too seriously.

God I love this time of year.

Very well said Hersh.

That said, can we please get this thread back to the rugby, and leave the non-rugby bits over on the bickering thread Smile

by SecretFly Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:02 am

What about taking the mickey out of someone and shooting him too? Double whammy like???? No???

by Dai Tryin Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:06 am

Kiwireddevil wrote:
HERSH wrote:Well said, my friend.

Some people take this banter far too seriously.

God I love this time of year.

Very well said Hersh.

That said, can we please get this thread back to the rugby, and leave the non-rugby bits over on the bickering thread

Well said Hersh!! The very fella who stirred things up in the first place as per. ridiculous, yes lets get back to rugby until the next time pffft!

by maestegmafia Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:07 am

Kiwireddevil wrote:
HERSH wrote:Well said, my friend.

Some people take this banter far too seriously.

God I love this time of year.

Very well said Hersh.

That said, can we please get this thread back to the rugby, and leave the non-rugby bits over on the bickering thread

This would be considered light hearted banter if wasn't HERSHS M.O. to constantly bait barate and antagonise welsh posters.

There is a large group of English IDs on here that do the same and contribute little else..!

In my opinion it is all that is wrong with this site.

I hope that the moderators do something about it.

There is a massive difference between banter and slander. Banter is sparodic, slander is permanent.

by HERSH Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:11 am

I wonder if the Duke of Cambridge will be there to meet both teams, god I love the handshakes.

by miteyironpaw Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:14 am

maestegmafia wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:
HERSH wrote:Well said, my friend.

Some people take this banter far too seriously.

God I love this time of year.

Very well said Hersh.

That said, can we please get this thread back to the rugby, and leave the non-rugby bits over on the bickering thread

This would be considered light hearted banter if wasn't HERSHS M.O. to constantly bait barate and antagonise welsh posters.

There is a large group of English IDs on here that do the same and contribute little else..!

In my opinion it is all that is wrong with this site.

I hope that the moderators do something about it.

There is a massive difference between banter and slander. Banter is sparodic, slander is permanent.

Don't know, there's also a lot of pompous self-righteous posters from Some Nations who like to pontificate from a pulpit about their national team's virtues and treat any approach to debate as a personal insult. Rather than accept that the ciriticism might be a valid point of view it tends to be treated as an attempt to bait, berate and antagonise. Personally I think it's all that is wrong with this site and if those people would realise that a discussion forum is about discussion and not the rest of us sitting quietly whilst receiving our daily lecture about the great gods of Welsh rugby in silence, then things would devolve less regularly into personal slanging matches.

Agree with hersh on the handshakes, in my view there isn't nearly enough ceremony prior to the matches. Speeches would be a nice touch.

by HERSH Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:20 am

maestegmafia wrote:
Kiwireddevil wrote:
HERSH wrote:Well said, my friend.

Some people take this banter far too seriously.

God I love this time of year.

Very well said Hersh.

That said, can we please get this thread back to the rugby, and leave the non-rugby bits over on the bickering thread

This would be considered light hearted banter if wasn't HERSHS M.O. to constantly bait barate and antagonise welsh posters.

There is a large group of English IDs on here that do the same and contribute little else..!

In my opinion it is all that is wrong with this site.

I hope that the moderators do something about it.

There is a massive difference between banter and slander. Banter is sparodic, slander is permanent.

Maybe if the large number of Welsh ID's excepted the fact that England have won 2 from 2 instead of trying to bait and antagonise us all the time with sly comments, true we haven't played well but we have done enough and considering the bad conditions we have done well. To say otherwise doesn't show much respect to either Italy or Scotland who both put up brave efforts.

Let’s hope that Wales play fair at Twickers and the Ref's are at least consistent with the rules of the game.

by Newsilure Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:41 am

Just to go off on a tangent and talk about rugby. I agree this game is to close for us Welsh(I think we are or at least some of us are a race) to feel confident about. The return of some key English players, like Tualagi and Lawes, could make a real difference to that teams performance.

But the interesting and cheerful point about the Welsh team selection is that most of the team are such standout players, within the pool Wales has available, that there are very few disagreements amongst the Welsh public about who they should be. There is almost universal agreement about the backline ... with just a few hecklers from the side saying Williams instead of Roberts, Hook instead of Priestland oh and anyone who passes quickly instead of Phillips .... but overall the majority are in clear agreement. The same goes for most of the forward positions certainly the backrow and props, although Rhys Gill is a name for the future.

The only real heated debates are an evenly matched draw in the discussion over Rees or Bennett at hooker and who should be in the second row. This last question is is likely to be answered at the moment by putting all from the 5 or 6 candidates who are fit and not banned in the match day 23.

So, I guess not surprisingly, the only positions that we are debating are those responsible for where we are performing poorly on the field, i.e. the line out which has been poor or even very poor.

Hopefully, in the next few games we will get to a position where most fans are in full agreement with the coaches selections as that should mean we are doing everything well on the field.

by maestegmafia Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:52 am

Some of the BS typed on here as an excuse for errant unmoderated trolling is insane.

I have had enough, this site is not worth reading or contributing to while these morons are allowed to carry on.

It is a rugby site. Discuss rugby.

Mods you should change your house rules to ban trolls. It ruins this site.

by Dai Tryin Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:54 am

@Newsilure

With the return of AWJ would you look to start him at lock and who would you omit, Ryan Jones has been superb and Ian Evans hasnt been bad at all given his lack of experience. A toughie I'm sure you would agree its difficult to second guess Gatland but I imagine he will start with Ryan on the bench as he covers more positions, this would be incredibly harsh but the more pragmatic approach.

by miteyironpaw Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:55 am

translation:

[ Maestegmafia makes a hasty forum exit after claiming impending Welsh victory over England before having to face the music on match day ]

by Dai Tryin Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:00 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Some of the BS typed on here as an excuse for errant unmoderated trolling is insane.

I have had enough, this site is not worth reading or contributing to while these morons are allowed to carry on.

It is a rugby site. Discuss rugby.

Mods you should change your house rules to ban trolls. It ruins this site.

Agreed Maes but without sensible contributors like yourself this site would be ruined, it's one for the mods certainly but without sensible contributions this site would die, and the world (rugby) would be a darker place.
I'm up for fair banter but too often it goes beyond the mark and has no place on a rugby discussion board.
Dont let them wobble your jelly!

by HERSH Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:10 pm

Dai Tryin wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Some of the BS typed on here as an excuse for errant unmoderated trolling is insane.

I have had enough, this site is not worth reading or contributing to while these morons are allowed to carry on.

It is a rugby site. Discuss rugby.

Mods you should change your house rules to ban trolls. It ruins this site.

Agreed Maes but without sensible contributors like yourself this site would be ruined, it's one for the mods certainly but without sensible contributions this site would die, and the world (rugby) would be a darker place.
I'm up for fair banter but too often it goes beyond the mark and has no place on a rugby discussion board.
Dont let them wobble your jelly!

C'mon Maesteg

You do your fair share of baiting and banter some of your recent comments have been offensive to English, Scottish and Italian fans plus you try your hardest to make stuff personal.

Dai I haven't come across you much and to be honest I don't want to!, you seem to be an angry person that is happy to hide behind other posters in attacking fellow 606ers, please try an contribute to the debate rather than just having a cheap shot.

by Dai Tryin Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:14 pm

HERSH wrote:
Dai Tryin wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Some of the BS typed on here as an excuse for errant unmoderated trolling is insane.

I have had enough, this site is not worth reading or contributing to while these morons are allowed to carry on.

It is a rugby site. Discuss rugby.

Mods you should change your house rules to ban trolls. It ruins this site.

Agreed Maes but without sensible contributors like yourself this site would be ruined, it's one for the mods certainly but without sensible contributions this site would die, and the world (rugby) would be a darker place.
I'm up for fair banter but too often it goes beyond the mark and has no place on a rugby discussion board.
Dont let them wobble your jelly!

C'mon Maesteg

You do your fair share of baiting and banter some of your recent comments have been offensive to English, Scottish and Italian fans plus you try your hardest to make stuff personal.

Dai I haven't come across you much and to be honest I don't want to!, you seem to be an angry person that is happy to hide behind other posters in attacking fellow 606ers, please try an contribute to the debate rather than just having a cheap shot.

Suits me fella x

by HERSH Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:15 pm

Let’s all agree to disagree and move on.

Let’s keep this about rugby, please!

by HERSH Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:19 pm

Should England target North’s glass ankle if he plays, a little stamp could win us the game as without North Wales attack consists of Roberts up the middle and that’s it.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:22 pm

HERSH wrote:Should England target North’s glass ankle if he plays, a little stamp could win us the game as without North Wales attack consists of Roberts up the middle and that’s it.

Hersh, how can you say 'let's keep this about rugby' and then post that, especially as what you say is untrue?

by damngoodOvalball Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:22 pm

Dai Tryin is a quality name!

by mckay1402 Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:22 pm

Or Cuthbert and Halfpenny round the edges...

by miteyironpaw Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:25 pm

I doubt very much that North will be back for the England game anyway.

by Morgannwg Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:26 pm

I'd keep the same team if possble, with perhaps Bennet demoted to bench and Rees to start. If North fails his fitness test, then I would be tempted to put Byrne on the wing and keep Halfpenny at full back. On the bench I think we need an entire fresh front row and AWJ.

by **Biltong** Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:27 pm

HERSH wrote:Should England target North’s glass ankle if he plays, a little stamp could win us the game as without North Wales attack consists of Roberts up the middle and that’s it.

by TycroesOsprey Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:28 pm

Norths scan went well and he has repeatedly tweeted that he is going to be fit since sunday. Doesnt look like Bennett will make it as his achilles has gone so Smiler and Owens I would assume are going to line up.

by HERSH Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:28 pm

But Wales attack moves start with Roberts up the middle, if we stop him offloading then 1/2p will have nothing to do except kick the ball, but to be fair England look like they have sorted out their discipline a bit, I'm sorry but Cuthbert could be shown up for the newbie that he is in this game.

by Dai Tryin Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:29 pm

Thanks DGOB.

Guys the Hersh guy is a right card, George North glass ankle etc.
As ever I'm fairly nervous about going to Twickers, but less so than previous years.
It's going to be one hell of a battle and as always it begins upfront, I am concerned about our set piece, an area where England are always capable.
Saying that if we can keep our discipline and not give away too many pens, which will be Englands main source for points then I believe we can look to this game with a degree of humble confidence.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:31 pm

We have been over-reliant on Roberts in the past, Hersh - but we'll still use him to take the ball up because it's effective. The difference now is that we're just as likely to use him - and George North, for that matter - as a decoy.

by HERSH Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:33 pm

Right card?

Oh I see what you did there, my point has been proven, his not very pleasant, but I guess he'll only be around for the 6 nations like most Welsh rugby fans, get behind your regions guys they need you.

by Cowshot Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:44 pm

then I believe we can look to this game with a degree of humble confidence.

That'll be the day! Wink

Wales clear favourites but not unbeatable is my overall view. Either we are going to see Wales play exhibition rugby and romp in half a dozen tries (stop drooling please) or we're going to see a real slugathon and a nailbiting finish. Either will be a great spectacle. I'm looking forward to it.

by Dai Tryin Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:44 pm

Hersh why the character assassination I'm just another poster who wants to talk rugby, yes I took offence to one thing you said dont take it personal, your a prolific poster who always gives his tuppence worth, allow me the same privilege, if you dont mind.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 15 Feb 2012, 12:50 pm

HERSH wrote:Right card?

Oh I see what you did there, my point has been proven, his not very pleasant, but I guess he'll only be around for the 6 nations like most Welsh rugby fans, get behind your regions guys they need you.

From http://www.thefreedictionary.com/card

card 1 (kärd)
n.
1. A flat, usually rectangular piece of stiff paper, cardboard, or plastic, especially:
a. One of a set or pack bearing significant numbers, symbols, or figures, used in games and in divination.
b. ...

2. cards (used with a sing. or pl. verb) Games
a. A game played with cards.
...
4.
a. A menu, as in a restaurant.
...
5. Computer Science
a. A circuit board, especially for use in a computer.
...
7. Informal An eccentrically amusing person.
...

by HERSH Wed 15 Feb 2012, 1:44 pm

Dai Tryin wrote:Hersh why the character assassination I'm just another poster who wants to talk rugby, yes I took offence to one thing you said dont take it personal, your a prolific poster who always gives his tuppence worth, allow me the same privilege, if you dont mind.

Don't take offence but with the amount of people who pick up life bans it's hard to spot a genuine poster, plus you have so few posts since you joined I was seeing I've I could see a pattern in you typing/responses etc, to see if you've been here before under a different name. I think you might be ok it's hard to tell sometimes!

May I wish you many happy hours here on 606v2

by miteyironpaw Wed 15 Feb 2012, 1:52 pm

With the greatest respect, maybe you guys could move the bickering over to the bickering thread? it's really breaking up the flow of this great thread and I'm keen to talk rugby about the upcoming Wales v England game, which will undoubtably the highlight of my late February.

by mckay1402 Wed 15 Feb 2012, 2:11 pm

Roberts does take it up the middle but he doesn't offload, he takes it to ground and then our forwards clear out to create quick ball. One thing I'm pleased with about Wales is that they are now aiming for the space next to a man rather than the solar plexus. Makes a huge difference.

by munkian Wed 15 Feb 2012, 2:22 pm

I'm sure there was a point earlier in this thread where someone directly asked Hersh some rugby questions and he carried on playing the slighted Saxon... Headscratch

Ah yes...

luckless_pedestrian wrote:
HERSH wrote:we only base things on current rugby issues

Okay, let's get away from the bickering (there's a thread set aside specifically for that) and assume that what I've quoted you as saying is true: Hersh, based on your two matches so far, aren't you worried about your apparent lack of threat in attack? A chargedown try is perfectly valid and is worth five points just like any other try, but doesn't it concern you that you haven't created any other chances?

And Hersh's reply is....

by miteyironpaw Wed 15 Feb 2012, 2:33 pm

Building pressure and then converting that pressure into points is a valid attacking weapon.

It's what England did in 2003 (albeit with the rolling maul, the set piece and the penalty kick), but it's the same principal.

It's the same technique applied successfully by South Africa in 2007, to build defensive pressure with accurate out of hand kicking, and long range penalties.

It's the same general idea in New Zealand's pressure defence, breakdown prowess and counter-strike. They build pressure by cutting down the options of the attacking side and then convert that into points.

The charge-down is just as much an offensive weapon and attacking threat as is fancy-pants backline moves. It's something I'd be particularly worried about if my team had a suspect lineout. England can keep putting the ball out and pinching the lineout.

There's more than one way to skin a cat! same applies to a dragon.

On top of which I could equally ask you if you feel that you are worried about the Welsh defence which conceded tries to Scotland (remember, the team who "can't score tries" ? )

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 15 Feb 2012, 2:39 pm

It may be what England did in 2003 but do you honestly think you have the pack to win this year's Six Nations playing that way?

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 15 Feb 2012, 2:40 pm

The game has moved on significantly since 2007, nevermind 2003.

by munkian Wed 15 Feb 2012, 2:49 pm

So your plan with a new coach and pretty much a new team is to play the way you used t o do nearly a decade ago with players who aren;t anywhere near as good ? Erm

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 15 Feb 2012, 2:54 pm

Good luck

by Taffineastbourne Wed 15 Feb 2012, 3:08 pm

miteyironpaw wrote:Building pressure and then converting that pressure into points is a valid attacking weapon.

It's what England did in 2003 (albeit with the rolling maul, the set piece and the penalty kick), but it's the same principal.

It's the same technique applied successfully by South Africa in 2007, to build defensive pressure with accurate out of hand kicking, and long range penalties.

It's the same general idea in New Zealand's pressure defence, breakdown prowess and counter-strike. They build pressure by cutting down the options of the attacking side and then convert that into points.

The charge-down is just as much an offensive weapon and attacking threat as is fancy-pants backline moves. It's something I'd be particularly worried about if my team had a suspect lineout. England can keep putting the ball out and pinching the lineout.

There's more than one way to skin a cat! same applies to a dragon.

On top of which I could equally ask you if you feel that you are worried about the Welsh defence which conceded tries to Scotland (remember, the team who "can't score tries" ? )

Pity that you missed the Scotland/England game.You missed seeing Scotland create a number of try-scoring opportunities which they butchered.England created zilch.Was more concerned about the Scots than England to be honest.

by HERSH Wed 15 Feb 2012, 3:42 pm

munkian wrote:I'm sure there was a point earlier in this thread where someone directly asked Hersh some rugby questions and he carried on playing the slighted Saxon...

Ah yes...

luckless_pedestrian wrote:
HERSH wrote:we only base things on current rugby issues

Okay, let's get away from the bickering (there's a thread set aside specifically for that) and assume that what I've quoted you as saying is true: Hersh, based on your two matches so far, aren't you worried about your apparent lack of threat in attack? A chargedown try is perfectly valid and is worth five points just like any other try, but doesn't it concern you that you haven't created any other chances?

And Hersh's reply is....

Please keep up I already answered that one.

by miteyironpaw Wed 15 Feb 2012, 3:44 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:
miteyironpaw wrote:Building pressure and then converting that pressure into points is a valid attacking weapon.

It's what England did in 2003 (albeit with the rolling maul, the set piece and the penalty kick), but it's the same principal.

It's the same technique applied successfully by South Africa in 2007, to build defensive pressure with accurate out of hand kicking, and long range penalties.

It's the same general idea in New Zealand's pressure defence, breakdown prowess and counter-strike. They build pressure by cutting down the options of the attacking side and then convert that into points.

The charge-down is just as much an offensive weapon and attacking threat as is fancy-pants backline moves. It's something I'd be particularly worried about if my team had a suspect lineout. England can keep putting the ball out and pinching the lineout.

There's more than one way to skin a cat! same applies to a dragon.

On top of which I could equally ask you if you feel that you are worried about the Welsh defence which conceded tries to Scotland (remember, the team who "can't score tries" ? )
Pity that you missed the Scotland/England game.You missed seeing Scotland create a number of try-scoring opportunities which they butchered.England created zilch.Was more concerned about the Scots than England to be honest.

I saw it, I was there.

I recall England scoring and Scotland not scoring. Not sure what your argument is. Scotland scored twice against Wales... defense, defense, defense, the modern game is all about defense.

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