Are the media getting it?

There's much more talk about the scarcity of fast court tennis, and Petchey now talking in derogatory terms of the "roughest courts" and "big fluffy balls " (pardon?) we can expect in Indian Wells.

Is the tide beginning to turn in the understanding of the modern game?

I bet Wimbledon will get faster this year.

these clay experts must have scandalous videotapes of blue collared ATP executive up to no good.

Fast Dubai conditions leading to a rather dull and ho hum tournament. Just like the late 90s. Back to players who can serve and very little else determining who wins. Poor tournament, few close matches, has Fed even faced a break point? Fast courts killing the game again like they almost did in the late 90s.

bogbrush wrote:There's much more talk about the scarcity of fast court tennis, and Petchey now talking in derogatory terms of the "roughest courts" and "big fluffy balls " (pardon?) we can expect in Indian Wells.

Is the tide beginning to turn in the understanding of the modern game?

Petchey is such a sad case....Ican understand McEnroe or Becker saying a thing or two about fast courts, but Petchey..I mean REALLY!

Nitb, has there been a single good match this tournament and it is playing as fast as ever? I found both semis to be quite dull. Fed and Del Po was closer but little mystery on any of the service games.

From what I got to see, Fed had a lot of break points.

bogbrush wrote:There's much more talk about the scarcity of fast court tennis, and Petchey now talking in derogatory terms of the "roughest courts" and "big fluffy balls " (pardon?) we can expect in Indian Wells.

Is the tide beginning to turn in the understanding of the modern game?

Petchy just wants the best courts and balls for his friend Murray. It has nothing to do with what viewers may or may not want to watch.

socal1976 wrote: Fast courts killing the game again like they almost did in the late 90s.

Ho ho ho - fast court in one tournament and it's 'killing the game' - it's a drop in the ocean. Don't worry you'll have your grindy marathons to delight to pretty soon.

socal1976 wrote:Nitb, has there been a single good match this tournament and it is playing as fast as ever? I found both semis to be quite dull. Fed and Del Po was closer but little mystery on any of the service games.

I enjoyed Nole Strachovski and Fed Delpo match. Fed and Delpo definitely looked best this week, natural. I know what you mean, some matches weren't as good as they could've been, eg Berdych Murray but I don't think it was because of the conditions. Dubai has always been the same.

Barry honestly, has there been one really good match this tournament? The closest thing I saw to a good match was Fed and Del po, and in this match you basically had no suspense at all in the service games. Maybe if Del Po didn't tank the second set tiebreak this would have been the first good match of the tournament. Horribly dull tournament so far. If this is the level of competition we get with fast surfaces I say slow them down further, dump the entire sand box into the hardcourt mix.

noleisthebest wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Nitb, has there been a single good match this tournament and it is playing as fast as ever? I found both semis to be quite dull. Fed and Del Po was closer but little mystery on any of the service games.

I enjoyed Nole Strachovski and Fed Delpo match. Fed and Delpo definitely looked best this week, natural. I know what you mean, some matches weren't as good as they could've been, eg Berdych Murray but I don't think it was because of the conditions. Dubai has always been the same.

Well, yes but were any of these matches more than mildly enjoyable. Lot of unreturnable serves and half way decent forehands finding their way through the courts. Not my cup of tea, watching this tournament makes me realize how awful tennis can get when you start favoring the big servers. Awful stuff so far.

It's not like they get much practice on fast courts anymore...

not as rubbish as it was the previous 2 years, mate.

socal1976 wrote:Barry honestly, has there been one really good match this tournament? The closest thing I saw to a good match was Fed and Del po, and in this match you basically had no suspense at all in the service games. Maybe if Del Po didn't tank the second set tiebreak this would have been the first good match of the tournament. Horribly dull tournament so far. If this is the level of competition we get with fast surfaces I say slow them down further, dump the entire sand box into the hardcourt mix.

You're just saying that to wind people up, right? I didn't see the crowd leaving in any matches - one or two points even got applauded.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Barry honestly, has there been one really good match this tournament? The closest thing I saw to a good match was Fed and Del po, and in this match you basically had no suspense at all in the service games. Maybe if Del Po didn't tank the second set tiebreak this would have been the first good match of the tournament. Horribly dull tournament so far. If this is the level of competition we get with fast surfaces I say slow them down further, dump the entire sand box into the hardcourt mix.

You're just saying that to wind people up, right? I didn't see the crowd leaving in any matches - one or two points even got applauded.

It's cool.

dubai is a mickey mouse cup anyway...why you so wound up?

socal1976 wrote:Fast Dubai conditions leading to a rather dull and ho hum tournament. ...

What's the expression? "Pearls to ?"

Really enjoyed Fed vs Delpo - even some lovely net play from TMF at one point which was fab.

Fed had oodles of break points, but just didn't convert ( so what's new? ) but to be fair, Delpo really played well on each break point.

wish I had seen Murray and Djokovic, but sadly work beckoned (double )

JuliusHMarx wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Barry honestly, has there been one really good match this tournament? The closest thing I saw to a good match was Fed and Del po, and in this match you basically had no suspense at all in the service games. Maybe if Del Po didn't tank the second set tiebreak this would have been the first good match of the tournament. Horribly dull tournament so far. If this is the level of competition we get with fast surfaces I say slow them down further, dump the entire sand box into the hardcourt mix.

You're just saying that to wind people up, right? I didn't see the crowd leaving in any matches - one or two points even got applauded.

I wouldn't leave either if a spent a hundred or two on these dull semis. They were hardly enthralled, at one point in the Murray and Djoko match I thought they had spiked the stadium's beer with valium. I am not winding anyone up, this was a very fast condition tournament. Did we see a single really good match? I can't remember it.

this was a very fast condition tournament. Did we see a single really good match? I can't remember it.

i thought Djokovic could win on any speed surface? or was that a myth..

So now you're blaming the conditions and not Djokovic, it takes 2 for a good match.

Fed vs Delpo was excellent, Delpo's outrageous brute power forcing Fed to play the type of sublime tennis that only he can, and which provides the best spectacle in the game.

droogle wrote:Fed vs Delpo was excellent, Delpo's outrageous brute power forcing Fed to play the type of sublime tennis that only he can, and which provides the best spectacle in the game.

I'll have to remember to check the highlights sometime

Well the semi I watched wasn't brilliant, but it was very enjoyable and there were some awe dropping forehands from Delpo and some really good net play from Fed. Pretty good serving from both, and good defensive and offensive skills from Fed as well as from Delpo.

I do think because Fed glides around the court fairly soundlessly, it is hard to appreciate just how exciting a player he is until you see him live because he makes some of the gets look too easy. You don't really understand just how fast and aggressive his shot making is until you are sitting broadside to a live match. Conversely, Rafa when not on top form looks far slower live and with very safe shots - obviously when he is on form and he adds the raw power to his percentage game he must be very exciting to see live - but slightly off form, his shots don't look as full of derring-do as Fed's do.

The crowd seemed to appreciate the match anyway - and isn't variety the spice of life?

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

this was a very fast condition tournament. Did we see a single really good match? I can't remember it.

i thought Djokovic could win on any speed surface? or was that a myth..

Yes that is why he has won this fast court tournament 3 times. The Paris indoors, basel indoors against Roger, the beijing indoors and the year in masters cup. Basically, every fast court tournament on tour including wimby and the USO Novak has won.

This has nothing to do with Novak, the tournament from start to finish has produced few if any close matches with a lot of tension. Mediocre about as bad as cinncinati last year another fast court tournament that usually sucks the big one.

in your opinion socal............some of us beg to differ!

Well socal, we must be living in a pretty weak era if the top players in the world can't produce a decent match between them!

Socal, please relax, and learn to humour Fed fans

Fill the tennis schedule with 20 tournaments like this one and see how quickly the ratings crumble.

I am sure Fed fans would love to see more tournaments where Roger gets to the final without facing break points. Roger wins 16 slams on slowed conditions, now that he isn't as fast the fair thing to do is speed up all the tournaments, lol!

The Djoko v. Nadal or Djoko v. Murray semi in Australia had more exciting moments than this whole tournament combined, but I guess its not hard to beat zero.

noleisthebest wrote:Socal, please relax, and learn to humour Fed fans

Nitb, I just like to turn the tables on them, every time Novak wins a tournament they talk about how boring the play is. This is one of the most uneventful and badly contested tournaments I have seen well since Cincy last year, which by the way is the fastest of all the outdoor hardcourts or among the fastest. I am actually typing with a smile on my face, so I am pretty relaxed after a rare loss by Novak.

Federer has helped increase tennis viewing figures along with Rafa et al.

He regularly wins the fans' favourite player and has done so since his dominant years.........he and his style of tennis must be putting some bottoms on seats even if the tournament couldn't give one away to you

clearly not everyone is as squeamish as you and will run shrieking from the next tournament that does not play like clay.

socal1976 wrote:I am sure Fed fans would love to see more tournaments where Roger gets to the final without facing break points.

Whereas Djoko fans much prefer him to get broken lots of times?
We get the idea, you don't like watching tennis played fast. You don't like S&V, or players hitting winners that can't be retrieved 3 or 4 times per rally. Some people do - it doesn't make the Fed fans, just fans of tennis played at different speeds. I like clay too. But I like variety, not just seeing the same tennis over and over again at each tournament. I guess you like all you tennis played at the same pace.

No Julius, I don't like to have the big servers favored, which seems to be the prevailing opinion of many on this site who want to see conditions sped up. Big serve tennis is so dull. The worst possible matchup in my opinion is two big servers playing each other. Worse even than two powerless grinders playing each other. You guys want variety this is your variety. After the Djoko Nadal final or Djoko v. Murray semi, i think this tournament starkly contrasts what type of variety we are talking about. Coming from the AO to this tournament is like going from eating a lobster tail in butter sauce to a Mcdonald's fish fillet sandwhich. Its variety all right, the kind of variety I can take about once a year.

socal1976 wrote:No Julius, I don't like to have the big servers favored, which seems to be the prevailing opinion of many on this site who want to see conditions sped up. Big serve tennis is so dull. The worst possible matchup in my opinion is two big servers playing each other. Worse even than two powerless grinders playing each other. You guys want variety this is your variety. After the Djoko Nadal final or Djoko v. Murray semi, i think this tournament starkly contrasts what type of variety we are talking about. Coming from the AO to this tournament is like going from eating a lobster tail in butter sauce to a Mcdonald's fish fillet sandwhich. Its variety all right, the kind of variety I can take about once a year.

Slightly hysterical!

Big servers like who? Murray and Djoko, who both got to the semis comfortably? Oh, you mean you don't like Fed winning easily.

JuliusHMarx wrote: I guess you like all you tennis played at the same pace.

I think Socal likes the drama more than tennis. An advantage won and lost 4 times in a rally as well as in a set and a match is what he likes.

I guess he feels robbed at wacthing an easy winner thanks to sublime timing and skills. He needs to see buckets of sweat...and bloods.

Deep down Socal is an antique Roman who has been starved of gladiators fights for 2000 years.

I have to admit, 3 or 4 breaks of serve per set, a bit of choking to get to a final set instead of a comfortable win and some dumping of easy shots into the net on break point does make for great drama and at times it is riveting stuff - great sport, great theatre.

But at times, like Tenez, says, winners, timing, volleys, hands, grace etc - it may not have the drama, but it's wonderful to watch. There are some players I could watch all day without actually caring a bit if they win or lose.

JuliusHMarx wrote:Big servers like who? Murray and Djoko, who both got to the semis comfortably? Oh, you mean you don't like Fed winning easily.

Contrary to popular opinion both Djoko and Murray can play on faster courts. Their results speak for themselves. Djokovic in particular has pretty much won every fast court tournament on the tour minus Cincy.

Tenez, has a point. I like to see matches that go up and down. Sets and points where the advantage swings back and forth. I disagree when you say that I don't enjoy winners, I do. I like to watch both great attacking and defending, I think the best players today have both aspects. I wouldn't enjoy watching Ferrer v. Monaco 10 times in a row on clay. Or enjoy Isner v. Karlovic indoors. In this type of tennis once you get a break in the set it is pretty much over, I think it sucks the drama out of it.

socal1976 wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:Big servers like who? Murray and Djoko, who both got to the semis comfortably? Oh, you mean you don't like Fed winning easily.

Contrary to popular opinion both Djoko and Murray can play on faster courts. Their results speak for themselves. Djokovic in particular has pretty much won every fast court tournament on the tour minus Cincy.

That's my point - it isn't the big servers who invariably win on faster courts.
I still think all your snooze-fest, corpse-of-a-tournament thing is a wind-up though, as payback for the AO comments on the forum.

Julius if you think I am being a wum, give me a memorable match from this tournament, a really close and memorable one?

I have yet to really hear any of the fast court proponents talk up these matches, because they have stank so far. Del Po fed was probably the best of the matches so far and that was hardly a great or even a very good match.

Cincy is fast, and last year that was probably easily the worst tournament of the year.

I've enjoyed all the matches I've seen, though didn't see any early rounds, apart from a few highlights. There's been high-quality tennis, and not just endless unreturnable serves as you seem to think.
A match doesn't have to have twists and turns or even be memorable (i.e. have drama) for me to enjoy the quality of tennis. I've enjoyed Rafa cruising through the FO without dropping his serve, for example, and not enjoyed the USO final, where he played rubbish for 2 sets.

Sometimes the players have struggled to get used to the conditions, but that could be an argument for more faster surfaces - to raise the level of play even more.

Still you can't say Julius that any of the matches have been memorable. Maybe you can watch Roger breeze through tournaments without even looking at break point. I don't find that epic or memorable. I call it uncompetitive and that is how most of the matches have gone this tournament, highly uncompetitive. None of the quarters were all that appealling either. Like I said the Djoko Murray semi in AO or the nadal final had more drama than this entire tournament in one single match. I don't know I saw a lot of matches with routine 40-0 and 40-15 service games with three returns going out and an ace thrown into the picture.

I can enjoy any player breezing through any tournament if they're playing quality tennis. You seem to be saying you can't enjoy any straights sets wins, because they're not epic or memorable.
To me that seems to indicate the quality of tennis is not the main reason you watch tennis.
Presumably you don't even enjoy Djoko's early rounds in slams? In fact, if he goes through the FO without losing his serve or a set, you might even find it totally forgettable?

I was surprised by the number of UEs by all players. But that is to be expected at first. If they start to play more often on it, they will get the rhythm and matches will become even more impressive with quality and talent finally replacing gruelling macthes with average shots rallies.

Nadal's in the next one socal, don't worry.

He won't be 'injured' for much longer.

I see it from both sides.

Socal is right that the tournament has been devoid of nailbiting matches that fall into the memorable category however the pace of the courts have been very refreshing and this cannot solely be blamed for not producing nail-biting matches as some of the slower courted tournaments can be drab as well.

Socal...

Did you get a chance to watch the DelPo-Dolgopolov match?

Here are the highlights. Please watch the second set, if you can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33pXG8rrbl8

PS: 13 Aces in 144 points, if that helps, about 11%.

There is the 'Golden Swing' in South America, with lots of Clay matches in 75% humidity.

JuliusHMarx wrote:I can enjoy any player breezing through any tournament if they're playing quality tennis. You seem to be saying you can't enjoy any straights sets wins, because they're not epic or memorable.
To me that seems to indicate the quality of tennis is not the main reason you watch tennis.
Presumably you don't even enjoy Djoko's early rounds in slams? In fact, if he goes through the FO without losing his serve or a set, you might even find it totally forgettable?

See I get a bit annoyed with comments like your third line. As if because I don't like this particular style of play I don't truely watch tennis for the quality. I understand the finer points of tennis. I can appreciate timely aces and big forehand winners or dominant performances. But that isn't what we have seen in these quarters and semis. We have seen dull competition and mediocre tennis. Del Po tanked away the second set tiebreak as beautiful a picture as you want to paint, and Novak seemed hardly bothered. Beyond that I also watch for the competition, and the match play has been poor.