Uncontested scrums

MrsP wrote:Who Submachine?

Which Irish TH would you have put on the bench and would the result have been any different?

emack2 wrote:A couple of points,was`nt there a ruling bought in last year that an extra prop had to be included on the bench a total of 4 props?In the event that all 4 props are injured then amend the laws.No uncontested scrums ,just a free kick for a offence that would usually be a scrum.
Where do you keep getting this stuff about Aus and NZ favouring uncontested
scrums.I`ve seen no documentation to back up the claim,just NH propaganda.
With Benn Alexander fit.Australia have a half way decent Scrum anyway and has improved greatly.
Since When have the AllBlacks fielded weak Scrums on a wide basis,more often than not.They have arguably THE Best scrum most of the time.in World Rugby.

If all front row replacements have been utilised during a game, and there is a further front row injury, and no fit front row player is available from the original starting team or replacement bench, the injured player will leave the field but may not be replaced.

gowales wrote:Geoff,
I think the NH has pushed for that. But the SH, in particular OZ and NZ are not in favor of it.

Under the current 22 man squads, i agree with the OP that they should have to play with 14 men.

It has nothing to do with whether or not they have strong or weak scrums. It's that they don't want to have 23 man squads in rugby.
Why do all NH hemisphere club/regional competitions now have 23 man squads while SH comps do not (apart from SA's Varsity cup funnily enough)? Answer, they don't want them because they feel it would take away from the "entertainment" aspect of the game. If everyone wanted 23 man squads (1 extra prop) don't you think they would be used for internationals by now?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

...
The Sanzar dislike of the concept is quite sad. I can understand the reluctance for rolling benches but this system isnt that.
...

LondonTiger wrote:Uncontested scrums were blighting the English Premiership until the new rules were brought in. Every round of matches saw at least one game with uncontested scrums often matches featuring Wasps and Bath.

Since the new rules cam in, I cannot recall there being a single uncontested scrum as anyteam that goes down that rout is penalised by having one player less.

Sad that it required a chnage to the rules of the competition to stop what was effectively cheating not far off "bloodgate" but glad it has now stopped.

wasps wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Uncontested scrums were blighting the English Premiership until the new rules were brought in. Every round of matches saw at least one game with uncontested scrums often matches featuring Wasps and Bath.

Since the new rules cam in, I cannot recall there being a single uncontested scrum as anyteam that goes down that rout is penalised by having one player less.

Sad that it required a chnage to the rules of the competition to stop what was effectively cheating not far off "bloodgate" but glad it has now stopped.

As a Wasps fan, I saw us go uncontested quite often a few seasons ago.
As you say, it hasn't happened much recently..... although our scrum is much improved (it's still nowhere near good enough in my opinion)

at around the same time I saw us go uncontested due to front row injuries when we have had parity / advantage in the scrum.
Obviously, it's very unlikely that any team would feign injury if they already have an advantage.
It therefore makes me think that our front row were very low on fitness and potentially all playing with injuries anyway.
(probably brought on by getting massacred at Welford road )

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I do think 4 props is overkill but would it cost anything more to have an extra reserve who is only used in the evnt of injuries on the bench Kiwi?
I assume most S15 squads have players who arent in the matchday 22 in their squads? It doesnt require a bigger stable of players, just one of the resrves to be sat on the bench doing nothing rather than in the stands doing nothing.

wasps wrote:

Yeah what advantage could a team possibly gain from having a fresh flanker on the field against a tired prop., just whne the balance of a game is starting to shift back to the chaseing team.
Hmmmmmmm.

Look it was common practise to take advantage of that rule. Lets not kid ourselves here. They woulnt have made the change in regulations otherwise.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I do think 4 props is overkill but would it cost anything more to have an extra reserve who is only used in the evnt of injuries on the bench Kiwi?
I assume most S15 squads have players who arent in the matchday 22 in their squads? It doesnt require a bigger stable of players, just one of the resrves to be sat on the bench doing nothing rather than in the stands doing nothing.

I agree. I just don't think Teflon Tew has throught that one all the way through

The NZ SXV franchises have squads of 28 (with 26 travelling on the SA tours) plus 6 man "wider training groups"

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I do think 4 props is overkill but would it cost anything more to have an extra reserve who is only used in the evnt of injuries on the bench Kiwi?
I assume most S15 squads have players who arent in the matchday 22 in their squads? It doesnt require a bigger stable of players, just one of the resrves to be sat on the bench doing nothing rather than in the stands doing nothing.

I agree. I just don't think Teflon Tew has throught that one all the way through

The NZ SXV franchises have squads of 28 (with 26 travelling on the SA tours) plus 6 man "wider training groups"

I take it they have reserve players they can call up too, like the Welsh regions do when plundering their clubs?
I really should know more about SXV rugby
The tour party cost issue I hadnt really thought about, that has to be a concern.

I still cant see a strong argument for not having the 23 man bench in high level international games though.

emack2 wrote:A couple of points,was`nt there a ruling bought in last year that an extra prop had to be included on the bench a total of 4 props?In the event that all 4 props are injured then amend the laws.No uncontested scrums ,just a free kick for a offence that would usually be a scrum.
Where do you keep getting this stuff about Aus and NZ favouring uncontested
scrums.I`ve seen no documentation to back up the claim,just NH propaganda.
With Benn Alexander fit.Australia have a half way decent Scrum anyway and has improved greatly.
Since When have the AllBlacks fielded weak Scrums on a wide basis,more often than not.They have arguably THE Best scrum most of the time.in World Rugby.