Munster v Ulster

First topic message reminder :

Well what a difference a few days make. Leinster stroll past Munster in Thomond, Ulster cruise past Airioni and now definitely fancy their chances on Sunday and rightly so.

My Munster team if players available would be

1. Wian Du Preez
2. Mike Sheery
3. BJ
4. DOC1
5. POC
6. DR
7. POM
8. Coughlan
9. Murray
10. ROG
11. ZEBO
12. Maifi
13. Earls
14. Hurley
15. Jones

Pretty much picks itself bar hooker and back row. Line out was just so bad that Varley has to pay the price. May not have been all his fault but Sherry has been knocking on the door and deserves a shot at this level.

DOC2 had a solid game but I think the partnership of POC and DOC should stand us well. DR to the back row.

Rodders Ulster team

15 Terblanche
14 Trimble
13 Cave
12 Wallace
11 Gilroy
10 IHumph
9 Pienaar
8 Wannenburg
6 Diack
7 Henry
5 Touhy
4 Muller
3 Afoa
2 Best
1 Court

I am he Sine E (Boyne not ASLS) and thank you. I thought that alright. A bit strange to mention the number 38...

In terms of the match, I'll call Munster by 15. Different animal in the HEC but Ulster will be right up for this one.

BoyneRFC wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Kingshu wrote:
10. ROG/IHumph ROG for his consistancy. Both have weak defences and are moved to wing when defending so we're even on that. Rog is will punish any penelty decisions and keep the board ticking over Hump blows hot and Cold, if hot can be masterful, however when was th elast time he blew hot in a big game?

Not true. O'Gara is not moved to the wing. In fact, O'Gara was Munster's 2nd top tackler after Mick O'Driscoll at the weekend with 14 tackles made (missing none).

O Gara never makes tackles on his own. The truth is, he is not physically able to. This is why when he is exposed, you have at least one other player there to ensure he doesn't get completely busted. Apparently he wants to play until he's 38??

I hope he has medical / life assurance....

Not saysing he scared of tackling (like humph can be) but it is a weakness in his game, to be fair he's been targeted all his career and it rarely pays off.

IHump is definatly moves to wing, I think I've seen ROG moved there before for Munster, might not happen as often as it does for IHumph but it does happen.

Personally I think teams are so gullible to keep targetting ROG.

We therefore know exactly where their ball carriers are running. Makes it very easy to defend against it.

ROG may be a bad tackler. However I would not characterise Munster and Ireland as having a weak defence with him in the team.

Both sides are defensively vulnerable in the 10 channel and each would be foolish not to try and exploit that.

I expect Ulster to play a tighter game than Munster who will throw the ball around more in the early stages I think.

As I say Rodders - what good will it do either of us to keep pummelling the 10 channel.

We get subjected to it in every game and we get used to defending against it.

I agree Ulster will keep it tigher than Munster. I bet though if Ulster kick off, the first thing Musnter do when they receive it is a flipping box kick.

It was interesting to note that Lamb was moved to the wing by Northampton during that HC game and Coughlan/POM ran over him a couple of times....

Despite ROGs alleged weak defense I still havent seen a direct score from going down that route in the last few years.

roddersm wrote:Both sides are defensively vulnerable in the 10 channel and each would be foolish not to try and exploit that.

I expect Ulster to play a tighter game than Munster who will throw the ball around more in the early stages I think.

Munster has the best defence in the Rabo (along with the Os) both have conceeded 21 trys this season Ulster have conceeded 32. Bear in mind as well that the last time Leinster scored a try against Munster - at least 200 mins now (bet that is one little soundbite they are now sorry they started about keeping Munster being tryless).

Stag - you'd think Leinster would know about the ROG defence thing though (Les Kiss said something similar a while back that it suits Ireland to know where the ball carriers are going to run). There is a possibility though that they do it to try and keep him occupied defending more than anything else.

You are missing the point. It not about scoring tries through the 10 channel.

The 10 channel is the quickest and easiest route across the gainline. If a team is vulnerable there then it makes perfect sense to do so, particularly of 1st and second phase.

That allows teams then to build a good attacking platform and shift the ball wide. If the 10 can stop the attacker on the gainline it gives the defending team the upper hand.

Sin I suspect Munster condede very little tries because of all the cynical penalties they concede in their own half to kill the ball......

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:Both sides are defensively vulnerable in the 10 channel and each would be foolish not to try and exploit that.

I expect Ulster to play a tighter game than Munster who will throw the ball around more in the early stages I think.

Munster has the best defence in the Rabo (along with the Os) both have conceeded 21 trys this season Ulster have conceeded 32. Bear in mind as well that the last time Leinster scored a try against Munster - at least 200 mins now (bet that is one little soundbite they are now sorry they started about keeping Munster being tryless).

Stag - you'd think Leinster would know about the ROG defence thing though (Les Kiss said something similar a while back that it suits Ireland to know where the ball carriers are going to run). There is a possibility though that they do it to try and keep him occupied defending more than anything else.

Munster have conceded scores from 54 penatlies in the league this season. Ospreys 52, only behind Aironi (59).

Ulster have conceded scores from 43 and Leinster from 37.

roddersm wrote:You are missing the point. It not about scoring tries through the 10 channel.

The 10 channel is the quickest and easiest route across the gainline. If a team is vulnerable there then it makes perfect sense to do so, particularly of 1st and second phase.

That allows teams then to build a good attacking platform and shift the ball wide. If the 10 can stop the attacker on the gainline it gives the defending team the upper hand.

Sin I suspect Munster condede very little tries because of all the cynical penalties they concede in their own half to kill the ball......

All teams are vulnerable there. FFS, look at the no of injuries Wilkinson has picked up because if you have a backrow running at him, there is only going to be one winner. No 10 is ever going to turn the ball over on his own, so a backrow is going to have to help him to do that (choke tackle) and stop it going out wide in the first place. i.e., keep it tight.

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:Both sides are defensively vulnerable in the 10 channel and each would be foolish not to try and exploit that.

I expect Ulster to play a tighter game than Munster who will throw the ball around more in the early stages I think.

Munster has the best defence in the Rabo (along with the Os) both have conceeded 21 trys this season Ulster have conceeded 32. Bear in mind as well that the last time Leinster scored a try against Munster - at least 200 mins now (bet that is one little soundbite they are now sorry they started about keeping Munster being tryless).

Stag - you'd think Leinster would know about the ROG defence thing though (Les Kiss said something similar a while back that it suits Ireland to know where the ball carriers are going to run). There is a possibility though that they do it to try and keep him occupied defending more than anything else.

Munster have conceded scores from 54 penatlies in the league this season. Ospreys 52, only behind Aironi (59).

Ulster have conceded scores from 43 and Leinster from 37.

Must be about 20 of them scrum penalties (for Munster)! I remember Archer being carded against the Os. And certainly gave a few away against Ulster as well.

Sexton defends brilliantly from the 10 channel..

I think the penalty count will be the deciding factor on Sunday. Both teams will be keen not to concede within kicking range.

(bet that is one little soundbite they are now sorry they started about keeping Munster being tryless).

TBH, once you are defending HEC Champions, top of the domestic table and just after beating your arch rivals in their own back yard, it becomes less of an issue.

It was an issue for Munster when Leinster were going for "six in the stix"....

Just checked the Inter pro scrum penalty count (v munster)

Munster 5 Leinster 4
Munster 4 Connact 2
Munster 0 Ulster 2 (got that wrong about archer - Afoa & McAlister both conceeded a penalty in Ravenhill.)

Munster's last two games they've given away 9 penalties for the scrum alone.

Overall, Ulster gave away 8 and Munster 7 when they last played against each other.

What worries me is ONCE AGAIN having to have Romain Poite as the referee.

He has greatly improved but he will punish our scrum. His style allows the stronger scrum to really inflict damage.

Someone like Nigel Owens would be better for us.

red_stag wrote:What worries me is ONCE AGAIN having to have Romain Poite as the referee.

He has greatly improved but he will punish our scrum. His style allows the stronger scrum to really inflict damage.

Someone like Nigel Owens would be better for us.

Agree - posted recently that Poite's games are dominated by the team that are winning in the scrum - however this was fairly countered by a Munster fan saying that despite being battered in the scrum against Northampton Munster won the match through superiority at the breakdown despite Poite being the ref, and Ulster's breakdown will be much weaker without Ferris.

I dont mind that much having him.

1 - The rest of his game has come on leaps and bounds and he is a really top class ref.

2 - We know its coming. We have no excuse.

Ulster have scored more far more tries than anyone else this season (49 next best is Leinster with a lowly 38).

Munster has the joint second best tries again the Rabo (along with the Os) both have conceeded 21 trys this season (best is Glasgow 19)

Whats intresting is that while Munster have the joint third best defense in the League (conceding 310 points behind Ospreys Leinster, and tied with Scarlets), Ulster have the second best attack (scoring 437 points only behind Leinster).


So really you can say this game is attacking Ulster V defensive Munster.

I hope that attacking rugby wins.

Kingshu wrote:Ulster have scored more far more tries than anyone else this season (49 next best is Leinster with a lowly 38).

Munster has the joint second best tries again the Rabo (along with the Os) both have conceeded 21 trys this season (best is Glasgow 19)

Whats intresting is that while Munster have the joint third best defense in the League (conceding 310 points behind Ospreys Leinster, and tied with Scarlets), Ulster have the second best attack (scoring 437 points only behind Leinster).


So really you can say this game is attacking Ulster V defensive Munster.

I hope that attacking rugby wins.

Ulster has one of the worst defences in the Rabbo.

Considering you had Aironi in your group, Ulster scored scored 10 less tries than Clermont (26) who topped the group.

Sin é wrote:Just checked the Inter pro scrum penalty count (v munster)

Munster 5 Leinster 4
Munster 4 Connact 2
Munster 0 Ulster 2 (got that wrong about archer - Afoa & McAlister both conceeded a penalty in Ravenhill.)

Munster's last two games they've given away 9 penalties for the scrum alone.

Overall, Ulster gave away 8 and Munster 7 when they last played against each other.

Just because props concede penalties it doesn’t mean they were in the scrum.

ESPN doesn’t go into that amount of detail.

Sin é wrote:
All teams are vulnerable there.

Leinster aren't. Sexton is an exceptional defender as is Owen Farrell. Wilkinson was. I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

ROG and Ihumph are notoriously poor defenders and will be tested on Sunday.

As Rava said I think goal kicking and penalties may be the deciding factor and who dominates the set piece.

Sin é wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Ulster have scored more far more tries than anyone else this season (49 next best is Leinster with a lowly 38).

Munster has the joint second best tries again the Rabo (along with the Os) both have conceeded 21 trys this season (best is Glasgow 19)

Whats intresting is that while Munster have the joint third best defense in the League (conceding 310 points behind Ospreys Leinster, and tied with Scarlets), Ulster have the second best attack (scoring 437 points only behind Leinster).


So really you can say this game is attacking Ulster V defensive Munster.

I hope that attacking rugby wins.

Ulster has one of the worst defences in the Rabbo.

Considering you had Aironi in your group, Ulster scored scored 10 less tries than Clermont (26) who topped the group.

Joint 7th tries conceded and 6th in points conceded, hardly one of the worst defences in the Pro 12, about mid-table defensive wise.

Attack wise points scored and Tries Scored top of the table.

Attacking Ulster, sure we concede some but our game plan is score more than the other team, if we follow this simple game plan and manage to execute it, we normally win.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
All teams are vulnerable there.

Leinster aren't. Sexton is an exceptional defender as is Owen Farrell. Wilkinson was. I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

ROG and Ihumph are notoriously poor defenders and will be tested on Sunday.

As Rava said I think goal kicking and penalties may be the deciding factor and who dominates the set piece.

Only ROG will be tested (and will be fine). Ian will be out knitting on the wing hoping a big bad forward doesnt come for him...

DOD,

Where he would be fooked is if we could call on our . . . .amazing set of front rows who always seem to be able to snatch a try yet are bloody useless.

Marcus Horan, Denis Fogarty, Tony Buckley

Oh he'd know all about it then. They'd be doing their usual thing sat on the wing waiting for try - doing feic all about scrum and lineout.

DOD, I hope a big bad forward doesn't come for him Actually him hanging around a forwards neck can just create enough of a nuisance sometimes and allow us to get a proper tackle in.

DOD wrote:
Only ROG will be tested (and will be fine). Ian will be out knitting on the wing hoping a big bad forward doesnt come for him...

Ah sure Humph should be safe enough from the Munster forwards they'll be busy enough belly flopping over the rucks and slowing Ulsters ball down .....

roddersm wrote:

DOD wrote:
Only ROG will be tested (and will be fine). Ian will be out knitting on the wing hoping a big bad forward doesnt come for him...

Ah sure Humph should be safe enough from the Munster forwards they'll be busy enough belly flopping over the rucks and slowing Ulsters ball down .....

Dont forget about sealing off the rucks... But as long as we do it illegally legal its alright

Poite loves us these days (except the scrum) and Paulie is his best friend so we should win the breakdown no worries...

The breakdown is going to be the winning and losing of the game probably, and I'm concerned our backrow doesn't have the goods if we have to start with either Faloon or Diack. Henry and Ferris, no problem, but we've no depth behind those two and now one is a serious injury doubt so...

Good man Notch keep playing the underdog card. These Munster boys hate that.....

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:Just checked the Inter pro scrum penalty count (v munster)

Munster 5 Leinster 4
Munster 4 Connact 2
Munster 0 Ulster 2 (got that wrong about archer - Afoa & McAlister both conceeded a penalty in Ravenhill.)

Munster's last two games they've given away 9 penalties for the scrum alone.

Overall, Ulster gave away 8 and Munster 7 when they last played against each other.

Just because props concede penalties it doesn’t mean they were in the scrum.

ESPN doesn’t go into that amount of detail.

Most of them are though

roddersm wrote:Good man Notch keep playing the underdog card. These Munster boys hate that.....

I see Ferris is on the shortlist longlist of European Player of the Year

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/16351.php

Are you at the match Sin old bean? Maybe its a bit far for you to travel to watch a one sided win for Munster?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sexton defends brilliantly from the 10 channel..

He does little else though.

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:Good man Notch keep playing the underdog card. These Munster boys hate that.....

I see Ferris is on the shortlist longlist of European Player of the Year

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/16351.php

Yup well deserved too .

roddersm wrote:Are you at the match Sin old bean? Maybe its a bit far for you to travel to watch a one sided win for Munster?

No I won't. I'll be in Portugal.

Pressure getting to you sin?..... .... best get away for a while, it could get messy....

Sin é wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Sexton defends brilliantly from the 10 channel..

He does little else though.

Yeah he does...he kicks his goals (well), he kicks the ball out on the full (often), he kicks aimlessly upfield (often), he shovels the ball out to his centres aimlessly, he has tremendous pace (not seen yet) and he is a one trick pony in terms of the looping run which might work against an aimless Bath team or Pro 12 (bottom half) team but otherwise doesnt work and he is lost without...

In fairness he did make one break against Munster which caught everyone by surprise as it is the first one he has done since the Bath game probably (although I dont think he actually made a break against Bath)

Not like Ronan "king Carlos" O'Gara eh?

He was spinning the ball on the end of his finger just before he shanked...2? 3? Penalties in his own back yard. And that drop goal!

I thought we are talking about Sexton, not ROG..

Hey Rory this is great the Munster lads are so busy slagging off Sexton and bickering with the Leinster boys they've forgot about the QF ....

We'll KO them from the HEC and they won't even notice.... ....

Mickado wrote:Not like Ronan "king Carlos" O'Gara eh?

He was spinning the ball on the end of his finger just before he shanked...2? 3? Penalties in his own back yard. And that drop goal!

Watch out there Mickado you will miss the straw...your clutching at...

ESPN are reporting Ferris is likely to miss this game?

Looks like it Morg .

Still no sign of Geoff for info... maybe he is really David Humphreys!

How big a loss is Ferris to Ulsters chances?

does anyone else think there's merit in selecting Touhy at 6 for this one if Ferris is injured?

Personally i would prefer him over Diack

Stag, I'd like to think that we will see the squad playing the games of their lives on Sunday. I'd like to think that the players we have without Ferris have the talent and ability to beat Munster. We saw a sharp increase against Aironi in the attacking energy and confidence. If Ulster want it, really want it, Munster could well find it tough to keep them out with or without Ferris.

Not the worst idea ever Wild.

And Stevenson at 5?

Actually no feck that, you lot pick Diack at 6.

Its amazing that we could be looking at a Munster v Ulster quarter final with the likes of O'Connell, Ferris, Wallace, Howlett all missing.

Anyone else heard that Sean Holley has been approached about the Munster job - it was on ScrumV and in the rugby paper this morning.