Golf and Homosexuality?

A great point brought up by mysti on another thread so thought maybe it was time to revisit an old bbc 606 classic.


Here is the old thread to get a feel for some of the sentiments of past and present posters;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A68851470


The old OP:

"I would like to start this discussion on the back of a show by Mark Chapman that I watched last night on the beeb. It was looking at homosexuality in sport and in particular the fact it does not seem possible for a football player to come out.

However, is golf any better? Given the number of players on the PGA and European tours statistically some of them must be gay. Of course it is not for us to say whether or not a players sexuality should be made public but would the golfing fans and golfing community be excepting of a gay player, at pro or club level?

I do not hold the belief that some do that if one player comes out in a big sport then all will be well and the sporting public will suddenly become enlightened. We need to ensure that any player that does come out can do without subjecting themselves to negative receptions and an over the top reaction.

Your sexuality in sport should not be an issue but is golf such a conservative group of people that no homosexual player could ever come out any time in the near future?"

Didn't a lot of female golfers come out as being gay?

You could say that players don't feel obliged to announce that they are hetrosexual, why should they therefore come out as homosexual ?

I'm not going to speculate but will make a comment on an LPGA player of days gone by who's avowedly lesbos, Muffin Spencer Devlin:
Spent four hours sitting next to her on a flight many years ago, and I couldn't imagine a more interesting sportsperson to chat to. Charming, funny, very interested, offered some fascinating insights into professional sport.

I think Diggers has hit the nail on the head with his comment, that being said if a sportsperson or golfer more to the point of this thread came out and said they were gay it would have no affect on how I perceive them or enjoy wtaching them in their chosen sport.

There is for some reason still a stigma attached to homosexuality in sport, and this is something that irritates me as to why! I don't understand how in this multi racial and multi cutural world we now live in how people can still put such a thing down as being detrimental. Imo creed, age, sexuality is all irrelevant. If they excel at something then I'd happily watch them.

Isn't Olazabal well known as a bufty?

Fader,
it would be interesting to see whether a mediocre player coming out as gay would get a Masters invite? Apparantly they do seem to favor minorities - at least if there's money in it.

Diggers

I am not saying anyone should feel obliged to announce their sexuality but it would be nice to think a golfer would face no issues should it become known they were gay.

And what about the reaction in most golf clubs around the country should it become common knowledge a member was gay?

Does anyone really think that would be a smooth experience?

Pedro: they seem to favour minorities but I think they would overlook or try to find a way not to invite a gay man, its just the impression they give off what with not allowing female members and only fairly recently allowing black members and player through their gates. I can't think of a place other than that which totally grips my poopie more with the attitude they have towards people, and I think that's why I rate it as my least favourite major.

Mac: I completely agree and think it would be nice if a golfer were to come out they would face no prejudice from fellow players, tournament officials and fans alike.

With regards to clubs accepting a gay golfer (couldn't think of a better term). I think that comes down to 2 things and both relate to the members.
1. Locker room mentality - imo still to many people see the locker room purely as a place to be overly "manly" instead of accepting those around them.
2. Members prejudice of "do we want to be seen as condoning this sort of thing" - totally wrong imo how people in this era can still think this way but lots do!

One of the lads that plays in our regular sunday swindle happens to be gay, really nice guy and a decent golfer playing of 11. We have a laugh and a joke, but you can see some of the locker room "machismo" cranked up by other members when he is in the locker room. Its as if they cannot accept the fact he is not interested in them! They seem to think by acting that way it shows their hetrosexuality thus showing they are in golfing terms OOB to him. Which is pathetic as just because the guy is gay doesn't mean he is looking at them in that way.

We used to have a greenkeeper who was an uphill gardner. Only revealed by being caught out in a George Michael type toilet situation.
There were a few laddish comments about it, but no real malice towards him. More the manner of his 'exposure' as a jobby jabber than actually being one which earned him the notoriety.

I'm sure a wee flash of Woods todger would turn Mac from pre pubescent obsessed school gates creeper to mattress muncher in no time. He's already admitted as much in the past.

Hi Fader

Thanks for sharing your mates situation with us. What you describe happening to him is exactly the point I was trying to make about golf clubs potentially not accepting those of different sexualities. And I know golf clubs will not be alone but this is a golf forum.

Some people seem to think that as long as no abuse is shouted or other blatant acts of offense then there is no problem. The real problem however is the type of change in behaviour you described around those that are gay.

I've got a couple of pink sweaters but the theory is that it puts the ladies at their ease.
Nobody springs to mind that i know but if anyone remembers Boa he had a story about Walker cup selection many years ago.

"if anyone remembers Boa he had a story about Walker cup selection many years ago."

Are we talking blow jobs for selection or something similar?

Bubba plays with a pink driver and his wife is a drag. What do you make of that?

Mac may not be too far off the mark.Bearing in mind Boa could be lets say quite controversial but he had a theory based on personal experience about the selection process.

"Bufty" "Jobby Jabber" "Matress Muncher" .....whatever next

haystongolfer wrote:"Bufty" "Jobby Jabber" "Matress Muncher" .....whatever next

Hmmm! Pillow Bitter, Shirt lifter, donut Shooter, ring raider! The list is endless of those types of things Doon!

Fader wrote:

haystongolfer wrote:"Bufty" "Jobby Jabber" "Matress Muncher" .....whatever next

Hmmm! Pillow Biter, Shirt lifter, donut Shooter, ring raider! The list is endless of those types of things Doon!

Anyone who is the least bit surprised that golfers don't reveal themselves as gay only need read this thread to know precisely why that is.

George1507 wrote:

Fader wrote:

haystongolfer wrote:"Bufty" "Jobby Jabber" "Matress Muncher" .....whatever next

Hmmm! Pillow Biter, Shirt lifter, donut Shooter, ring raider! The list is endless of those types of things Doon!

Anyone who is the least bit surprised that golfers don't reveal themselves as gay only need read this thread to know precisely why that is.

Yes quite a few rather disappointing responses so far. Really very sad.

I'm just surprised no-one commented on the openly lesbian golfer Kwini mentioned being called "muffin".

To be fair, most of the 'disappointing responses' came for SR who was desperately trying to get some attention by saying them.

You'd have to be pretty sad to be offended by such terms though, but then Mac makes that sort of thing his personal business.

Oi Fader!
Don't bring me into this thread.

Perhaps we should ask for a view from the MEN ONLY golf club members.

McLaren wrote:

George1507 wrote:

Fader wrote:

haystongolfer wrote:"Bufty" "Jobby Jabber" "Matress Muncher" .....whatever next

Hmmm! Pillow Biter, Shirt lifter, donut Shooter, ring raider! The list is endless of those types of things Doon!

Anyone who is the least bit surprised that golfers don't reveal themselves as gay only need read this thread to know precisely why that is.

Yes quite a few rather disappointing responses so far. Really very sad.

If everyonme bothers to read up on the thread they'll see I'm pro for people to come out and be comfortable with their sexuality, I was merely commenting on what had been brought up! Still I guess its easier to shoot down the most recent posts than to look at an entire thread!

But also as I said one of the lads in our regular group is gay and would not be in the slightest offended by any of the terms on here, he's even used some in banter to take the urine out of himself when playing poorly

Your pal might have broad enough shoulders to withstand the abuse, and even be self deprecating about it, but I'm afraid most people wondering whether their homosexuality would be accepted without comment would look at this thread and know it wouldn't.

George1507 wrote:Your pal might have broad enough shoulders to withstand the abuse, and even be self deprecating about it, but I'm afraid most people wondering whether their homosexuality would be accepted without comment would look at this thread and know it wouldn't.

But that's the whole point of the thread and something I myself addressed earlier I just dint take kindly to my comments in response to those before me being singled out as the only offending ones! Merely highlighting the sort of crap that locker room mentality from some causes! But if you want to see me as the bad guy despite my support for all races and sexualities then feel free george

Fader

I did not mean to single you out i just used Georges comments as a quote and your comments happened to be within that. Although I assume you realise that what you said was in rather poor taste?

The BBC seem to have a revolving issue cycle. I've lost count of the amount of times I've tuned into 5Live Sport and they're looking into depression, sexism or racism and homosexuality is another.

On, this issue it won't make any difference to me whether a well known golfer "came out", but I'm not personally interested in making it "easier" for them to do so, so to speak. Plainly I don't have will in myself to push for any social change, I'm very accepting of inequality. Perhaps a black mark against me, but that's the way it is.

McLaren wrote:Fader

I did not mean to single you out i just used Georges comments as a quote and your comments happened to be within that. Although I assume you realise that what you said was in rather poor taste?

Poor taste was the whole point though mac, hence the comment I finished it with basically highlighting some of the moronic playground prejudices that are all to common. I find it very sad in this day and age that so many make it so hard for someone to be socially accepted for merely being just themselves. I really don't get why people have to change their way of thinking when they find out someone happens to be gay after all it doesn't change them as a person as well as my friend that I play golf with I have several other gay friends and they really are no different to anyone other than their sexual preferences yet you walk into a pub and all the straight guys that are outside of the group were out in suddenly feel the need to man up!

I've recently started dating a rather nice young lady a few years my junior but I cannot stand being around her younger brother who is 17 as he finds it funny to openly ridicule. Anyone that is different to him his favourites to slag off are people of a different colour or gay men and lesbian women. I find myself hoping one day he goes out and offends someone to the point they give him a good slap because god knows I'd love to do it myself.

I do not understand what makes people think it is ok to use offensive term for a gay person. Do this people still call black people the N word, or use slang terms for black people?

Stephen Davies, came out in cricket, and i have not noticed anything that has gone against him, so i cannot see any reason why a golfer would not come out. But again private life is private. Being gay does not affect how you play golf, so what does it matter.

beninho wrote:I do not understand what makes people think it is ok to use offensive term for a gay person. Do this people still call black people the N word, or use slang terms for black people?

Stephen Davies, came out in cricket, and i have not noticed anything that has gone against him, so i cannot see any reason why a golfer would not come out. But again private life is private. Being gay does not affect how you play golf, so what does it matter.

Sadly there are some that still use those terms. I don't see why anyone that is old enough to know better has to call anyone by a name whether it be for age, race, sexual preference or disability. If their not old enough to know better then their parents should educate them though sadly this is something that isn't happening all the time yet. But hopefully in the coming years peoples attitudes will change.

Was aware of the cricketer doing so but then I don't follow cricket so fair play to him. Sky Sports news recently did a homosexuality in football special report and it was shocking how many current players and managers openly stated they wouldn't really want a gay guy in the dressing room upsetting the other lads! I find that disgraceful in a sport that says kick racism out of football can be so opnely homophobic. What I also wasn't aware of until that show was that there is a national gay football league so that people who are gay can play in gay only teams so that they are not subject to such prejidice.

As you say private life is private so if anyone of the top players is gay and they don't feel the need to come out say it but likewise not hide it away, full respect to them.

It is amusing reading through old literature to find so many 'gay 'men.
I find the word 'gay' is some how wrong, I think they need to find a new one.

I think the gay community likes the word Doon, they have taken it as their own and it has no offensive connotations to them though obviously some people do use it as a term to cause offence.
I suspect whatever term was used to describe a homosexual would get the same treatment from certain people.

Gay football teams? Arbroath play at Gayfield.
Not sure why you'd feel the need to play in a gay league. My neighbour is a bible thumper and plays in a Christian league. Seems a bit odd to me. Who cares what you are. It's just sport.

super_realist wrote:Not sure why you'd feel the need to play in a gay league. My neighbour is a bible thumper and plays in a Christian league. Seems a bit odd to me. Who cares what you are. It's just sport.

And that is the crux of it and how it should be, no-one should care or matter and everyone should be able to play together without prejudice

I think for gays playing in a gay league would be kinda weird. It would be like straight people playing in a mixed sex league. It is bound to be a distraction if you could be sexually attracted to your own teammates or the opposition players.

didnt realise there was another thread on this!

lorus lol dude- not really how it works. I am sure woods checks out the ladies in the crowd more than your average gay tourny golfer would check out his competitors.

To get to a certain level of sports of to get to a certain level in any work place you need to be able to put your desires to one side!

however talk of segregation is pointless so i agree on that score

super_realist wrote:You'd have to be pretty sad to be offended by such terms though, but then Mac makes that sort of thing his personal business.

I am not that sure that you are right here SR. You would have to walk in a gay persons shoes to know that

fader i dont think you could fool anyone if your a gay footballer that doesnt come out but lives a normal gay life(you know going out to dinner with your bf, not being married, etc)- its either come out or hide it. You dont have to neccesarily come out- but if the said footballer doesnt do anything to hide the fact he is gay- it will be found out within seconds(and i reakon that would be the case even if the player was in division 2)! probally better to just come out and be done with it!


davies is the gay cricketer- he hasnt played for england for abit of time- if he is good enough to have another go then i hope he will get picked. i am secretly wanting him to mind- I cant think of one male openly gay sportsman that plays at the highest level within a team. when one gets the others may follow..

I am no gay activist at all- i would just find it very funny to see how the biggoits would react, and especially in world football there are lots!!

Gareth Thomas was a top drawer high profile sportsman. Brave for a rugby player to come out I guess.

do you know how many games he played after he came out?

Certainly a few club seasons, no idea for Wales. Still a big name to come out though.

Of course, there's the Gay Brewer.
Wouldn't have been good if Brian Gay had had that name: Gay Gay.

Diggers wrote:...Brave for a rugby player to come out I guess.

Not really, with hindsight. In general, rugby players (in both codes) have brains.

mystiroakey wrote:do you know how many games he played after he came out?

None...in Union. Went on to play League afterwards and, I think, became a dual code International for Wales.

Aye the auld Gay Brewer...won the Alcan event if I remember right and played Ben Sayers clubs in UK.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Diggers wrote:...Brave for a rugby player to come out I guess.

Not really, with hindsight. In general, rugby players (in both codes) have brains.

mystiroakey wrote:do you know how many games he played after he came out?

None...in Union. Went on to play League afterwards and, I think, became a dual code International for Wales.

Still say it was brave, Welsh rugby players aren't grammar school boys like the English, and Wales is quite a parochial country and the fans are working class people. Plus he was the first so had no idea what the reaction would be, though on the whole it's been pretty positive.

True. Good that it's been so positive.

thoughts on him going on BB after.

Is he a typical media hungry gay- seeking approval and celeb status!

Personally i think its fine- however he does feed the steriotype!

I prefer not to have any thoughts on BB at all.

Well gareth obviously did!

I take it you dont approve?

But then if you offered 200k maybe tough to turn down if you dont have much other income!