Do Ulster have enough support for an expanded Ravenhill?

First topic message reminder :

I'm going to throw this one out there.......

After attending the Leinster game last Friday I have a few concerns about the plans to expand Ravenhill to 18,000 capacity.

The atmosphere was really poor at the memorial end against Leinster. It seemed like quite a few people there knew very little about rugby and weren't really following the game. Silence wasn't being observed for the place kicks by quite a few.

Now given that this was the last home game of the season and assuming that this was a bigger than average crowd I would be questioning how many genuine Ulster rugby and genuine rugby fans are out there right now, who will attend regular games and can we actually fill a bigger ground on a regular basis?

Will Ravenhill lose some of its atmosphere? Are there more genuine fans out there and if so why aren't they attending the games now?

Personally I think Ulster still have a lot of work to do to tap into the growing popularity of rugby union in Ireland and gain cross community support across the province.

Having been in Limerick recently and seen the infrastucture at Thomond and the community support that Munster have Ulster have a long, long way to go as a brand and an organisation.

Reaching the HEC final would be a massive boost and generate a lot of interest but I think Ulster still have to work a lot harder because I'm not convinced that just relying on their core support from traditional rugby areas will be enough, from a player or fan base perspective to build a rugby club which will be able to match Munster and Leinster in the long term.

I was massively frustrated to see both Union flags being waved at Thomond and to recently see a person in a local supermarket wearing a Munster jersey. The idea that anyone, casual fan, or otherwise, in Ulster would support Munster before their own province fills me with deep frustration. These are small things but they are symbolic of the problems that Ulster need to overcome if we want to achieve Logan and Humphreys vision.

Why are Ulster flags not made readily available to fans, the way they are for Munster fans?

The Kukri store at Ravenhill had no power generator on Friday night and was lit by an assistant holding a hand torch FFS. Would that happen in Munster or Leinster a week out from a HEC SF?

Friday night games work best for the majority of Ulster supporters, understandably, but for fans in the West it is difficult to make the kick off at 7.05 pm. Munster at least make some effort to cater for fans in Cork, are Ulster branch trying hard enough to accommodate fans from across the province?

In terms of PR there seems to be a lot of hype around this Christian thing right now. Not that there's anything wrong with being a Christian, but there does seem to be often a big descrepancy between how the club and it's fans are percieved in the media and the actual reality. The McLaughlin thing obviously was a PR disaster so clearly there are big improvement needed on how the club deal with media.

Too often the term NI and Ulster is used interchangably from an Ulster perspective, which again is a small thing but it doesn't promote the image that Ulster are representing all of the 9 counties.

Small things but they add up and if we want to be the best then we need have high standards.

Anyways don't want to sound negative. There's a SF to be won and its a great time to be an Ulster fan, but looking forward I want us to be the best and we have a lot to work on to match Munster and Leinster, off the pitch as well as on it.

There's much more knowledgeable Ulster fans on here so I'd be interested on what others think.

SUFTUM !

But thats the thing Jay; Munster is entirely in Ireland. Ulster Rugby is a cross-border organisation. They don't just represent all of Northern Ireland- they represent all of Ulster including the three counties in the Republic of Ireland.

What happens in international rugby is a different thing to the provincial game.

That's fine that you think that buddy, however as I said in my post that I don't want to bring politics into it and just wanted to share my experience of getting behind ulster with my ulster buddys

The last thing I want is to have a political debate. I understand what your saying but I respectfully disagree with it. Like I said I would hate to loose our identity so we could be politically correct.

I don't understand why Ulster rugby would want to distance itself from the majority of its fan base to accommodate a small section of the whole province, and an even smaller section of the rugby playing section of the province. I understand the importance of branching out and getting new fans but not at the expense of existing fans. If I can't get to games coming from the Mournes then there will be no chance of anyone from over the boarder.

Hoog wrote:Lads it heartens me that you agree with my comment, I didn't want to over emphasise it as I don't agree with politics in sport but the fact that the majority of ulster posters agree with me is great.

I've always just found it so strange that it takes pride and place in Ravenhill when its a team thy represents part of the republic. I firmly believe it is one of the main points that stops southerns getting fully behind Ulster as a team.

I know that personally growing up I always looked at ulster as a bunch of left footers due to to deep rooted historical feeling, however as I've grown up and wised up a bit and come to the understanding that we all play towards the same goal of success for Ireland.

This was brought to the boil fully last November when i stood shoulder to shoulder to ky good buddy Rava, fully decked out in ulster gear. It was a massive personal milestone for myself and o hope more people like me can find it in themselves to SUFTUM when the time calls for it.

I for one will be shouting for them on Saturday as loud as I will be shouting for Leinster come Sunday

Believe

There was no one more proud than me to have you shoulder to shoulder with me at Welford Road. I know too well how massive that was for you.
That again shows how far we have come. I'm looking forward to having Mickado standing with me on Saturday in similar circumstances.

JayMaster3000 wrote:The last thing I want is to have a political debate. I understand what your saying but I respectfully disagree with it. Like I said I would hate to loose our identity so we could be politically correct.

I don't understand why Ulster rugby would want to distance itself from the majority of its fan base to accommodate a small section of the whole province, and an even smaller section of the rugby playing section of the province. I understand the importance of branching out and getting new fans but not at the expense of existing fans. If I can't get to games coming from the Mournes then there will be no chance of anyone from over the boarder.

Jay, what identity would you lose? I don't think anyone is asking you to give up your beliefs. Ulster Rugby isn't a protestant organisation, it's a Provincial Rugby Team. It shouldn't be a case of anyone distancing themselves to accommodate anyone. All rugby supporters in Ulster should be encouraged to be part of our success. If for one minute I thought the only people being catered for were "prods" then I would be away like a shot.
To be honest if we lost a few people who are still living in the past and gained a lot of people who want to move on into the future then that's a sacrifice worth making.

I think its very sad to see see Ulster fans refer to fellow Ulster fans as those "from over the border".

Maybe I dont understand the Ulster mentality but it seems very divisive if thats the case. Its not a view I had seen before

There's another thread about branding and I think the flag issue has to do with branding. I had an interview recently and because I wanted the job so much, I was asking people who actually conduct interviews for advice. I was told that the smallest throwaway remark can lead interviewers to big conclusions about you, that aren't necessarily correct.

It's the same with the flag. Some people, on seeing a union flag flying, will immediately jump to an incorrect conclusion. "Catholics not welcome". That's not the right interpretation. It's just an old tradition. And Catholics are welcome. But that is unfortunately, due to history, how it could be interpreted and a potential fan and his support and cash is lost.

So removing the union flag and replacing it with an Ulster flag would avoid the prospect of people forming a false idea of what Ulster rugby is about and being turned off. To me, a flag change would make sense from a branding point of view.

And would having an Ulster flag instead of a union flag really rob existing Ulster fans of anything? Would they refuse to attend games? Would they care? It's just a small cosmetic change that avoids the possibility of people making false assumptions and probably makes business sense. It's not as if they'd be replacing it with a tricolour so I don't think anyone's identity is under threat. It would be an ulster flag.

ps I'm currently wearing runners with tiny little union flags on the sides

pps I got that job by the way

Reebok classics I presume

Feckless Rogue wrote:So removing the union flag and replacing it with an Ulster flag would avoid the prospect of people forming a false idea of what Ulster rugby is about and being turned off. To me, a flag change would make sense from a branding point of view.

And would having an Ulster flag instead of a union flag really rob existing Ulster fans of anything? Would they refuse to attend games? Would they care? It's just a small cosmetic change that avoids the possibility of people making false assumptions and probably makes business sense.

Thats it in a nutshell. We are already at pains to present ourselves as politically neutral; some tidying up of the branding around Ravenhill could make a difference to our image. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a team everyone in nine counties can get behind is potentially more profitable than a team some people in six counties can get behind. We already are the former, but there are a few tiny cosmetic changes that could consolidate that.

I could see Ulster having a much bigger fan base withing ten years. I know there has been a huge surge in it's popularity in Donegal over the last few years and when that generation grow a bit older they will want to support their province. And success will of course help.

Could Ulster play some matches in different stadiums sometimes to reach fans in the West once or twice a year?

Bringing schoolkids to the game would be a great help. So would tapping into the student population. It could be as simple as a free beer or two for students when they attend.

One thing that everyone could do right now to help is be really welcoming to new fans! I have a friend who in her late 40s started following rugby and was afraid to talk to people at a Leinster match or in a pub because she would be seen as a bandwaggoner and didn't know much about the game. She is a Dubliner and felt nervous and embarrassed about following a new sport! New fans are of course going to be lost sometimes and feel nervous in a new environment so be friendly.

Maybe some free Ulster flags might encourage people not to bother bringing their own....

Ulster have the best potential to grow their fan base through a sport that is widely regarded as an all-island game, that has international status, that has home-grown stars that have international appeal, and that is on the cusp of a new period of success.

As others have noted, Ulster Rugby has some bridges to build if it wants to harness support from a wider fanbase than it has currently. And some myths/perceptions to shatter if it wants to move -metaphorically anyway - beyond the pale of Ravenhill.

What myths? What perceptions?

Rugby is a middle-class sport for the Protestant community in Northern Ireland.
Ulster Rugby means Northern Ireland rugby really.
Rugby is a Protestant oriented, British traditional sport, fostered in schools that continue those traditions, and in clubs largely in the east of province.
Ulster Rugby is a closed shop.
Ulster Rugby rarely signs players from the Republic; Tommy Bowe was an exception and even he left after a while.
Catholics wouldn't be welcome in Ravenhill.
Ulster Rugby is supported by Unionist politicians; it's not supported by Nationalist ones.

If, perchance, Ulster were to progress to the Heineken Cup final this season, who would support them from across the province, as opposed to the Province? Who do people take their cues from in establishing where something sits in the eyes of their communities? Would we see Martin McGuinness and Peter Robinson in Lansdowne Road for the semifinal and walking proudly into Twickenham for the final?

How do media report on the sport and the team? Is it more likely to feature in the Belfast Telegraph than the Irish News? Can more be made of figures such as Piennar and Muller as evangelisers of the sport? What celebrities or popular opinion formers support the sport that might change perceptions?

Can Ulster Rugby move out of its stronghold in Ravenhill, and hold a couple of exhibition or pre-season matches in other towns/cities - Letterkenny, Donegal, Derry, Omagh, Strabane, Enniskillen, Armagh? Could a Pro12 home game or interpro game during the holidays be staged somewhere other than Belfast?

No doubt these questions have been asked before - it would be great to see some of them getting positive responses as more people get more behind the sport and behind Ulster Rugby.

Here's hoping.

Intotouch wrote:Maybe some free Ulster flags might encourage people not to bother bringing their own....

Thats something we can learn from Munster. I think it's a no-brainer; flags are a sensitive issue, but people want to use them, so why not encourage more rugby related flags? For me, anything that can out off a person from coming back to Ravenhill is a bad thing. It's not about identity politics- it was said earlier in the thread, it's purely about the Ulster brand and making sure we reach the largest possible audience.

Stag, Northern Ireland is still in some respects a very divided country. There are people who have never been to the Republic of Ireland. For me, Ulster Rugby has the power to be something in the future that brings people from both sides of the border together but we still have a very long way to go.

I remember Ulster holding an opening training session and masterclass with the first team in Donegal a few years ago. I think it would be good if we did more things like this.

We could do it in pre-season. Tour around a few each year; Letterkenny, Newry, Derry, Monaghan etc. The west and south of the province are where we need to go with evangelical zeal!

Jay,
Straight from the soul. Respect.

I agree with you. It must cut both ways to work. Or not cut at all.

My suggestion is and always has been - No National flags. No Tricolour and no Union Jack. No National songs.

Ulster's Hand. Munsters Stag, Connachts ??? and Leinster's Harp. That will do me.

You say you are a Socialist. Me too, International Socialist. I bow to no Queen. No President. No religion. And I will certainly not ally myself to any flag. Ever.

So mate. What do we do? Where do we go from here?

Im open. Wide open. Id hate to lose what we have to be honest. I always believed that our rugby alliance transcended all that cowpat.

We are prime-evil. Nothing ever really changes deep down, does it?

Well it has for me. Changed by the warmth and beauty of the friends I've made through rugby in Ulster and its connection with the Irish international side.

Friends for Life. And nothing will ever change that for me. I wont let it.

I lived through the 70's So have they. I would trust them with my life. Phhok flags.

Id love to have pints & conversation with you. Really. Over to you.

Rava wrote:

JayMaster3000 wrote:The last thing I want is to have a political debate. I understand what your saying but I respectfully disagree with it. Like I said I would hate to loose our identity so we could be politically correct.

I don't understand why Ulster rugby would want to distance itself from the majority of its fan base to accommodate a small section of the whole province, and an even smaller section of the rugby playing section of the province. I understand the importance of branching out and getting new fans but not at the expense of existing fans. If I can't get to games coming from the Mournes then there will be no chance of anyone from over the boarder.

Jay, what identity would you lose? I don't think anyone is asking you to give up your beliefs. Ulster Rugby isn't a protestant organisation, it's a Provincial Rugby Team. It shouldn't be a case of anyone distancing themselves to accommodate anyone. All rugby supporters in Ulster should be encouraged to be part of our success. If for one minute I thought the only people being catered for were "prods" then I would be away like a shot.
To be honest if we lost a few people who are still living in the past and gained a lot of people who want to move on into the future then that's a sacrifice worth making.

I am not talking about beliefs or Protestant and Catholic background. If it comes across this way that is not my intention. What I am trying to stress is this push not get rid of the Red Hand of Ulster (Former N.I. Flag) and replace with the Ulster brand. I am fine with Ulster pushing that but I would be against the Red Hand being banned from the ground, an idea that was said in the old 606. That flag represents where I am from the best. Until they can come up with something better that shows I am from Northern Ireland, and hopefully gets rid of the stupid crown, that flag is a symbol of where I am from. I suppose you could argue in terms of defining a country or area the Red Hand of Ulster (Former N.I. Flag) represents the people of Ulster the best, even if you say your from Northern Ireland or North of Ireland. But that is an argument for a historical journal.
Further to this issues of flags is the issue of anthems. Though I would prefer Northern Ireland to have its own anthem, we don't. And to remove the privilege of singing your anthem's country just because it may cause offence is wrong in my opinion. Tommy can sing his anthem but big 1F can't, that's if he would want to. But under current double standards we'll never know. These are only two issues.

Though I understand that Ulster Rugby represents 9 counties let's not forget that it represents a whole country. I am totally for integration and expanding the fan base, but not at any cost.

As for the article, well written and thought provoking. We don't sell out all our games but the money was there. It's not out fault those idiots on the hill can't agree on the colour of human excrement, so it is either build and expand for the future, wait until they decide to build a national stadium or let it goes to waste.
I see it as an investment and look forward to going to the museum, get my photo taken with one or two trophies perhaps.

Rava wrote:

JayMaster3000 wrote:The last thing I want is to have a political debate. I understand what your saying but I respectfully disagree with it. Like I said I would hate to loose our identity so we could be politically correct.

I don't understand why Ulster rugby would want to distance itself from the majority of its fan base to accommodate a small section of the whole province, and an even smaller section of the rugby playing section of the province. I understand the importance of branching out and getting new fans but not at the expense of existing fans. If I can't get to games coming from the Mournes then there will be no chance of anyone from over the boarder.

Jay, what identity would you lose? I don't think anyone is asking you to give up your beliefs. Ulster Rugby isn't a protestant organisation, it's a Provincial Rugby Team. It shouldn't be a case of anyone distancing themselves to accommodate anyone. All rugby supporters in Ulster should be encouraged to be part of our success. If for one minute I thought the only people being catered for were "prods" then I would be away like a shot.
To be honest if we lost a few people who are still living in the past and gained a lot of people who want to move on into the future then that's a sacrifice worth making.

That fella is one of them. A friend who showed me so much of what I had never seen before. Places Id never been before. Places I could not have gone to (wearing a Leinster jersey) when we were both young men. Opened my eyes and mind even more. I treasure it. Its Gold.

JayMaster3000 wrote:

Rava wrote:

JayMaster3000 wrote:The last thing I want is to have a political debate. I understand what your saying but I respectfully disagree with it. Like I said I would hate to loose our identity so we could be politically correct.

I don't understand why Ulster rugby would want to distance itself from the majority of its fan base to accommodate a small section of the whole province, and an even smaller section of the rugby playing section of the province. I understand the importance of branching out and getting new fans but not at the expense of existing fans. If I can't get to games coming from the Mournes then there will be no chance of anyone from over the boarder.

Jay, what identity would you lose? I don't think anyone is asking you to give up your beliefs. Ulster Rugby isn't a protestant organisation, it's a Provincial Rugby Team. It shouldn't be a case of anyone distancing themselves to accommodate anyone. All rugby supporters in Ulster should be encouraged to be part of our success. If for one minute I thought the only people being catered for were "prods" then I would be away like a shot.
To be honest if we lost a few people who are still living in the past and gained a lot of people who want to move on into the future then that's a sacrifice worth making.

I am not talking about beliefs or Protestant and Catholic background. If it comes across this way that is not my intention. What I am trying to stress is this push not get rid of the Red Hand of Ulster (Former N.I. Flag) and replace with the Ulster brand. I am fine with Ulster pushing that but I would be against the Red Hand being banned from the ground, an idea that was said in the old 606. That flag represents where I am from the best. Until they can come up with something better that shows I am from Northern Ireland, and hopefully gets rid of the stupid crown, that flag is a symbol of where I am from. I suppose you could argue in terms of defining a country or area the Red Hand of Ulster (Former N.I. Flag) represents the people of Ulster the best, even if you say your from Northern Ireland or North of Ireland. But that is an argument for a historical journal.
Further to this issues of flags is the issue of anthems. Though I would prefer Northern Ireland to have its own anthem, we don't. And to remove the privilege of singing your anthem's country just because it may cause offence is wrong in my opinion. Tommy can sing his anthem but big 1F can't, that's if he would want to. But under current double standards we'll never know. These are only two issues.

Though I understand that Ulster Rugby represents 9 counties let's not forget that it represents a whole country. I am totally for integration and expanding the fan base, but not at any cost.

As for the article, well written and thought provoking. We don't sell out all our games but the money was there. It's not out fault those idiots on the hill can't agree on the colour of human excrement, so it is either build and expand for the future, wait until they decide to build a national stadium or let it goes to waste.
I see it as an investment and look forward to going to the museum, get my photo taken with one or two trophies perhaps.

The Red Hand is the stuff of legend and mythology. Long before the British/Irish question. It stays. It defines the Province for me.

Confession time.

I didn't even know they had any flag flying at Ravenhill.

Flags are such a problem here. i don't have a flag that I am willing to fly because I know any one I woud chose would be seen as identifying me with certain sections of society, even if that was not my intension. I am so glad that UR are sorting out some flags for the semi. The UR flag is about the only one I am happy to fly.

Maybe 2 seasons ago I was at a match and was sitting beside a guy on his own. We got talking and I found out it was his first ever live rugby match! He told me about his sporting background and it was great to see him feel so welcome at Ravenhill that he had no qualms talking about his background. He had a great time and left determined to come back.

Just made me so happy!

Gibson wrote:Jay,
Straight from the soul. Respect.

I agree with you. It must cut both ways to work. Or not cut at all.

My suggestion is and always has been - No National flags. No Tricolour and no Union Jack. No National songs.

Ulster's Hand. Munsters Stag, Connachts ??? and Leinster's Harp. That will do me.

You say you are a Socialist. Me too, International Socialist. I bow to no Queen. No President. No religion. And I will certainly not ally myself to any flag. Ever.

So mate. What do we do? Where do we go from here?

Im open. Wide open. Id hate to lose what we have to be honest. I always believed that our rugby alliance transcended all that cowpat.

We are prime-evil. Nothing ever really changes deep down, does it?

Well it has for me. Changed by the warmth and beauty of the friends I've made through rugby in Ulster and its connection with the Irish international side.

Friends for Life. And nothing will ever change that for me. I wont let it.

I lived through the 70's So have they. I would trust them with my life. Phhok flags.

Id love to have pints & conversation with you. Really. Over to you.

Well I am flattered that you would like a drink. I do love a good old historical and political debate, but more in terms of socialism rather than the crap we have in N.I. In terms of my own socialism I would say, for a better phrase, that I would be more of the Stalinist rather than the classic Marxist-Leninist model. So though I like the idea of International socialism I don't think it is possible right now, especially with the United States of Fascist America still on the go.
Though I bow to no Queen or President myself I think revolution starts at home and it is important to maintain that strong centre, I'm not saying the authoritarian model of Lenin, just saying it has to start somewhere.

I agree that rugby, on this island, breaks most political and class divides and that is why I say just leave things the way they are at Ulster. Let Ulster push the brand and let the fans embrace any part that they can identify with the most. For me, it is that these men are the best players from where I am from and they are putting their bodies on the line for the whole of the country, which best representation is the Red Hand of Ulster.

That young girlie (MrsP) is another. Ulsters finest.

Maybe we are just wasting time actually giving flags or borders any creedence. Look to your heart, mind & soul.

All the rest, is fabricated and limiting bollox.

It's on the badge anyway, its always going to be the symbol of Ulster.



I agree with Jay; a non-sectarian flag and anthem for Northern Ireland is long overdue... but still a long way off. Whilst we have a ready made anthem in Londonderry Air the flag is more problematic. The Alliance Partys suggestions have proven somewhat less than inspiring;





Most people feel they already have a national flag... its just not the same one. This is my flag;

JayMaster3000 wrote:

Gibson wrote:Jay,
Straight from the soul. Respect.

I agree with you. It must cut both ways to work. Or not cut at all.

My suggestion is and always has been - No National flags. No Tricolour and no Union Jack. No National songs.

Ulster's Hand. Munsters Stag, Connachts ??? and Leinster's Harp. That will do me.

You say you are a Socialist. Me too, International Socialist. I bow to no Queen. No President. No religion. And I will certainly not ally myself to any flag. Ever.

So mate. What do we do? Where do we go from here?

Im open. Wide open. Id hate to lose what we have to be honest. I always believed that our rugby alliance transcended all that cowpat.

We are prime-evil. Nothing ever really changes deep down, does it?

Well it has for me. Changed by the warmth and beauty of the friends I've made through rugby in Ulster and its connection with the Irish international side.

Friends for Life. And nothing will ever change that for me. I wont let it.

I lived through the 70's So have they. I would trust them with my life. Phhok flags.

Id love to have pints & conversation with you. Really. Over to you.

Well I am flattered that you would like a drink. I do love a good old historical and political debate, but more in terms of socialism rather than the crap we have in N.I. In terms of my own socialism I would say, for a better phrase, that I would be more of the Stalinist rather than the classic Marxist-Leninist model. So though I like the idea of International socialism I don't think it is possible right now, especially with the United States of Fascist America still on the go.
Though I bow to no Queen or President myself I think revolution starts at home and it is important to maintain that strong centre, I'm not saying the authoritarian model of Lenin, just saying it has to start somewhere.

I agree that rugby, on this island, breaks most political and class divides and that is why I say just leave things the way they are at Ulster. Let Ulster push the brand and let the fans embrace any part that they can identify with the most. For me, it is that these men are the best players from where I am from and they are putting their bodies on the line for the whole of the country, which best representation is the Red Hand of Ulster.

Excellent. As long as it's inclusive comrade. Otherwise, its not Socialism.

red_stag wrote:I think its very sad to see see Ulster fans refer to fellow Ulster fans as those "from over the border".

Maybe I dont understand the Ulster mentality but it seems very divisive if thats the case. Its not a view I had seen before

Stag,

I think the poster may have been talking about this purely in terms of travelling time to Ravenhill. Monaghan, Cavan and Donegal (along with parts of Fermanagh) are the furthest bits of Ulster from Belfast. I think he's saying that the travel time from his part of Co Down is bad so it would be even more difficult for the more distant Counties.

MrsP, I remember when I first bought my current guitar I was tuning up and there was a tradesman in doing some work. For whatever reason, I played the first few intervals of God Save The Queen and I just slipped into playing the whole melody. Then I realised I wasn't alone in the house.

I quickly retrieved the situation by seguing into Anhran na bhFiann- can't be too careful!

Gibson wrote:That young girlie (MrsP) is another. Ulsters finest.

Maybe we are just wasting time actually giving flags or borders any creedence. Look to your heart, mind & soul.

All the rest, is fabricated and limiting bollox.

I'll second that, Mr Chairman

Tell me the legends of long ago
When the kings and queens would dance in the realm of the Black Rose
Play me the melodies I want to know
So I can teach my children, oh

Pray tell me the story of young Cuchulainn
How his eyes were dark his expression sullen
And how he'd fight and always won
And how they cried when he was fallen

Oh tell me the story of the Queen of this land
And how her sons died at her own hand
And how fools obey commands
Oh tell me the legends of long ago


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuB_9VsdGk&feature=share

JAYMASTER3000 I see that I misinterpreted your intentions.

Thanks lads!

But that was the complete beauty of this Notch. This man was totally happy telling me stuff which clearly identified him as belonging to a section of the community which would not be the biggest traditional supporters of rugby. He clearly (and correctly) felt that there would be no issue at all in him doing that. I don't think there are too many mass sporting venues in NI where folks would feel so at ease doing that.

Made me feel very proud of how far we've come and how far UR have come.

But we must not rest on our laurels. Still work to be done.

Hmmm I really didn't want this thread to creep down the old political flag debate route. In fairness I did mention it first but I see it as part of a wider issue of branding and PR as opposed to the key point of the thread.

My personal view is that the Union flag is of no relevance to Ulster rugby, which is a provincial team and not a national one. Bath RFC or Cardiff Blues for example don't fly the Union flag. As has been pointed out, a 3rd of the provinces of Ulster are not in NI. Its not about being PC or inclusive so much as having a bit of respect for fellow fans and waving the appropriate flag.

If Ulsters club flag was the Union flag well then feic off if you don't like it, but it's not, so don't feicing wave it. Sorry to be blunt but its just a feicing flag for feic sake .

Jay you make the assumption that the majority of Ulster fans are protestant Unionists, to me that says a lot. Probably you are right but over the 9 counties, if Ulster are a truely inclusive organisation and the IRFU and Ulster branch are promoting rugby effectively then that shouldn't actually be the case, the majority of fans would probably be Catholic.... anyway Catholic protestant hindu whatever who gives a shoite... the feicin point is for Ulster to be as successful as Munster and Leinster we need to utilise the entire province and not just a small exclusive section.

That doesn't mean just getting more Catholics in, it means engaging with businesses, marketing and promoting the club better, looking at ticket promotions for students, unemployed and families etc., disabled access, improving facilites, match scheduling and transport. Right now Ulster aren't even maximising their potential fanbase in Belfast let alone across the province.

Great strides are being made on and off the pitch but we are still someway behind Munster and Leinster and thats what we should be judging ourselves against. Whilst they are winning trophies and creating globally recognized brands we can't agree on what piece of cloth to fly off a feicin stick.

Some of the best players in the world were on show on Ravenhill on Friday night but the place was barely a sell out, yet the correspondng fixture between Munster and Leinster can sell out the Aviva. Things are going very well for Ulster but I really do feel we are just scratching the surface of our potential and as part of an all-Ireland administered sport there is no need for us to be burdened or tarnished by symbolism, religon or politics.

Notch wrote:MrsP, I remember when I first bought my current guitar I was tuning up and there was a tradesman in doing some work. For whatever reason, I played the first few intervals of God Save The Queen and I just slipped into playing the whole melody. Then I realised I wasn't alone in the house.

I quickly retrieved the situation by seguing into Anhran na bhFiann- can't be too careful!

The real question here is, what current guitar do you own?

No Rodders it's cool. Jay has said what maybe a lot of other people were thinking but dare not say. Breath of honest air. Its a discussion forum ja?

Im havin pints with him. He's Doomed. Drink-wise I mean. And on pure Socialism.

I've played an American Strat for the last four or five years Rory.

PenfroPete wrote:
Tell me the legends of long ago
When the kings and queens would dance in the realm of the Black Rose
Play me the melodies I want to know
So I can teach my children, oh

Pray tell me the story of young Cuchulainn
How his eyes were dark his expression sullen
And how he'd fight and always won
And how they cried when he was fallen

Oh tell me the story of the Queen of this land
And how her sons died at her own hand
And how fools obey commands
Oh tell me the legends of long ago


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuB_9VsdGk&feature=share

Ah man. The King Of Wales is in!

All we need now, is As... and his AsLongAsButOne100OfUsRemainsAlive speech.

In fact they started it. Jock basterds.

At least they invented TV. And everything else for that matter. I'll always love the Jocks for TV. Saved me a fortune on air-fares.

I've only just put two and two together Rory.

Is your 606 moniker named after that singer. That lad from Oasis.

I'll let Gibbo take this one

red_stag wrote:I've only just put two and two together Rory.

Is your 606 moniker named after that singer. That lad from Oasis.

What? Is Noel the better singer? Have I wandered into the middle of something Notch?

I know people get attached to their pop singers. Bit like we do about our rugby teams

It will never change Notch. What is. Is. And I love it man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJCUKh-IToo

Gibson wrote: Ah man. The King Of Wales is in!

All we need now, is As... and his AsLongAsButOne100OfUsRemainsAlive speech.

In fact they started it. Jock basterds.

At least they invented TV. And everything else for that matter. I'll always love the Jocks for TV. Saved me a fortune on air-fares.

Ah yes, the TV's !! On Lothian Road they were a sight, back when I lived in the "Athens of the North"

Gibson wrote:No Rodders it's cool. Jay has said what maybe a lot of other people were thinking but dare not say. Breath of honest air. Its a discussion forum ja?

Im havin pints with him. He's Doomed. Drink-wise I mean. And on pure Socialism.

Yeah fair enough, sorry Jay didn't mean to go off on a rant there man ... just get frustrated when politics becomes central to the debate. I'm a sports fan and sport should be politically neutral. Theres plenty of other organisations and events that people can join to express their cultural and political idendity. I just want to WIN .

A socialist eh. Sorry lads but Socialism doesn't pay the bills man.....

PenfroPete wrote:

Gibson wrote: Ah man. The King Of Wales is in!

All we need now, is As... and his AsLongAsButOne100OfUsRemainsAlive speech.

In fact they started it. Jock basterds.

At least they invented TV. And everything else for that matter. I'll always love the Jocks for TV. Saved me a fortune on air-fares.

Ah yes, the TV's !! On Lothian Road they were a sight, back when I lived in the "Athens of the North"

Indeed!

red_stag wrote:I've only just put two and two together Rory.

Is your 606 moniker named after that singer. That lad from Oasis.

rodders wrote:

Gibson wrote:No Rodders it's cool. Jay has said what maybe a lot of other people were thinking but dare not say. Breath of honest air. Its a discussion forum ja?

Im havin pints with him. He's Doomed. Drink-wise I mean. And on pure Socialism.

Yeah fair enough, sorry Jay didn't mean to go off on a rant there man ... just get frustrated when politics becomes central to the debate. I'm a sports fan and sport should be politically neutral. Theres plenty of other organisations and events that people can join to express their cultural and political idendity. I just want to WIN .

A socialist eh. Sorry lads but Socialism doesn't pay the bills man.....

Rodders, its a great thread mo chara. Your last post said it all. Love you, ya Proddie/Kafflic/Hindu/Islamic/Yiddish bollix.

But what about Buddha man? Phhok Bhuddha. He was a stoned fat basterd, with an ideal. Where every man, woman and child, could live in peace, strive for a higher level of consciousness and find it all in simple contemplation. Not a religion. Hmmm. Imagine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLgYAHHkPFs
Believe.

rodders wrote:

Gibson wrote:No Rodders it's cool. Jay has said what maybe a lot of other people were thinking but dare not say. Breath of honest air. Its a discussion forum ja?

Im havin pints with him. He's Doomed. Drink-wise I mean. And on pure Socialism.

Yeah fair enough, sorry Jay didn't mean to go off on a rant there man ... just get frustrated when politics becomes central to the debate. I'm a sports fan and sport should be politically neutral. Theres plenty of other organisations and events that people can join to express their cultural and political idendity. I just want to WIN .

A socialist eh. Sorry lads but Socialism doesn't pay the bills man.....

No offence taken. Hopefully I haven't offended anyone. Probably the best debate I have ever had on 606V2. I agree that rugby should be politically neutral but I think that's the real point I was trying t get across, as Mrs P points out.

As for socialism. Wait and see, it's coming. I think, for the British Isles, it will start in Wales. And after the strong centre is built everyone will see how much the system works when done correctly and the rest will follow. The Utopia of the Socialist Republic of Wales will lead the way for democratic Socialist U.K. And if not, I'll probably just have a drink.

Forget it Gibbo man, I draw the line at Buddhists and Muslims man, we don't need them....they don't spend enough money at the bar ..........

Jay

When I read a thread like this it makes me proud to be a rugby fan. Intelligent, sensible, level headed, respectful debate on the internet, rarer than hens teeth!

A lot of interesting points, especially the op's piece. I appreciate the concerns expressed rodders, but I genuinely believe there is a fanbase out there, and we will get bigger crowds when the development is complete. This is because I believe the lack of facilities puts off quite a lot of folk going to games at the minute, and all being well, better bar, food, shop and 'comfort' facilities will encourage more people to come along once the work is done.

Also I know we are winning the battle to prove ulster rugby is for all the people of ulster. My club now has many players who hail from West Belfast, mostly guys who played Gaelic previously and decided to give rugby a go for a change and have fully embraced to, much to the clubs benefit both on and off the pitch. Initially a lot of the guys claimed to be Munster fans, joking West Belfast was actually part of Munster. I believe the word Ulster, the image they had of it, came from pictures of big Ian standing in front of the city hall with 'Ulster says no' behind him screaming 'never never never!' It tainted the concept of 'Ulster' for them.

But times have changed for the better in our wee Island, and they have seen Ulster rugby has nothing to do with all that madness, and represented them after all, and those guys can now be seen a Ravenhill regularly now, cheering on Ulster, and will be down in Dublin in force on Saturday.

They now understand that Ulster rugby is a team for the whole provence, regardless of religion or political background, and soon that will be understood by all, and our team and fanbase will benefit enormously.

Jay man.


Great convo bro.

Its a total no brainer not to mention the untapped Playing potential. I can think of loads of GAA Players in the North who would of made excellent Rugby Players.

Notch wrote:I've played an American Strat for the last four or five years Rory.

So you know a good guitar then can't beat a good strat. What amp?