Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

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Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Crimey on Thu 26 Apr 2012, 9:03 pm

I'll admit from the start that I haven't followed Madrid constantly, I've watched a few of their games, usually their big ones.

Particularly in the games against Bayern Munich, and across the last couple of years I feel that Real Madrid's centre backs, especially Pepe and Sergio Ramos are just not good enough for Madrid.

Pepe is constantly criticised by most, mainly for his dirty play, but for the most part that's all he seems to offer. He's not a good tackler, he's not a good header of the ball and he's not a ball-playing defender. He's there to hurt people, and in a world class side, that is simply not good enough for a centre back, he needs to offer more than bad tackles. Madrid fans must hold their head in their hands every time Pepe is named in the team as he just seems to be a liability.

Less criticised, but I feel still not good enough is Sergio Ramos. I've never been convinced by Ramos for Real or Spain, I think he's probably the most overrated defender in football today. He makes so many mistakes, and against good sides that will be punished, he was ridiculously lucky in that first Bayern leg that his chances were falling to Gomez (also overrated) and he kept on wasting the chances as Ramos could have put them 3, 4 goals behind personally. He seems to be picked for his heading ability, but while he often gets his head on the ball, he's not very technical with it, the number of times I've seen him waste good heading chances for Spain and Real from set pieces is unbelievable, being tall doesn't mean you're good at heading. Defending he'll often just head the balls straight up causing more danger.

Ramos and Pepe individually are not good enough, together even worse. Madrid have a talented youngster in Varane who looks better than both and the experienced Carvalho, but they can't rely on those two to replace Ramos or Pepe so I think in the summer the next 'Galactico' has to be a centre back. Thiago Silva, Javi Martinez or even Vincent Kompany would all be suitable players.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by The Special Juan on Thu 26 Apr 2012, 9:16 pm

Pepe is a disgrace to football. He's an overrated, dirty git.

Even dirtier is Ramos. How many red cards has he had in his career? But he's not a CB, he's a RB. Albiol must be poor if Ramos is starting above him.

Gomez is good! He's like Darren Bent but x1000
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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Imperial Ghosty on Thu 26 Apr 2012, 9:24 pm

I think european as a whole has taken a backward step in recent years, too many of the big teams rely on players who were once brilliant. I love United but it says a lot for the current state of the champions league that a team who still rely on Giggs and Scholes made 3 finals in four years, the same is true of Chelsea, AC Milan and almost every top team.

The fact that the standard is so much lower than it was leads us to rate players higher than we once would have, the best are still brilliant but the level below that are sometimes fairly average in comparison. Ramos and Pepe are good enough for the current Madrid team but wouldn't have been for the team of 10 years ago based on current form.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Crimey on Thu 26 Apr 2012, 9:42 pm

Ramos has played centre back all year with Arbeloa at right back, I am sure that Ramos has only been turned into a centre back because he offered very little at right back and he's tall.

Gomez may have scored a lot of goals for a couple of years now, but there have been a lot of doubts over his finishing ability and I think those doubts are completely justified, he wasted a lot of chances over those two legs against Madrid, often over-thinking his moves, taking one too many touches. It makes me think that if Bayern had a better striker, they would be an even better side with the number of chances they created for Gomez without him converting.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Hero on Thu 26 Apr 2012, 9:54 pm

Gomez has scored 40 goals this season in 48 games.
That's better than the Premier league player of the year Van Persie who has 34 goals in 45 games.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 26 Apr 2012, 10:53 pm

Easier league to score in?

He and Ronaldo had almost identical chances last night and he completely fluffed his lines.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Crimey on Thu 26 Apr 2012, 10:56 pm

Hero wrote:Gomez has scored 40 goals this season in 48 games.
That's better than the Premier league player of the year Van Persie who has 34 goals in 45 games.

As I said in my post, there is serious doubt on the finishing ability of Gomez, and he showed this over the two legs as he failed to really show finishing ability, failing to convert serious chances. It could be that Bayern are creating so many chances and have a better finisher than Gomez and they'd score even more!

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by alanqlm on Thu 26 Apr 2012, 10:56 pm

Pretty certain Javi Martinez is more suited to Midfield than defence... Thiago Silva would be a good shout though.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Crimey on Thu 26 Apr 2012, 10:57 pm

Javi Martinez has spent much of this year playing in defence and has played very well.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Imperial Ghosty on Thu 26 Apr 2012, 11:04 pm

Even say Ivanovic would be a great signing for Real or Barca, he's a centre back playing right back which often gets overlooked especially by the commentators on tuesday.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Trebs on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 12:49 am

I think Real should be playing Calvalho more to be honest. Maybe if they dropped Arbeloa, Calvalho and Pepe play in the centre and Ramos at right back.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Crimey on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 7:03 am

Why would you drop Arbeloa, he's consistently good for Real. He's very underrated I feel as a right back, he's much more solid defensively than most, I'd much rather have him at right back than Ramos.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by FIFA Diva on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 8:19 am

I don't think they are the best defenders but are good enough, Pepe has played very well in some of the El Classicos and other matches. I'm not too sure on Ramos as a CB.

Overrated = where a player is praised very highly compared to his actual skill that is the case for Ronaldo and Messi all the good players will get overrated that's part of Football.

Gomez is a fantastic striker not only does he get get goals but works extremely hard for his side. He has a better goals to shots ratio then Messi, Ronaldo, Rooney and RVP in thier respective leagues which seems to me they are the ones with poorer finishing.
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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by The_Essence_of_Excellence on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 9:04 am

You could argue that Barca are no better.

Valdes. He is a RUBBISH goal keeper. The only reason he has not been replaced is because if he concedes or makes an error it won't matter as they score so many.

Puyol- Legs have gone he is past his sell by date.

Pique- Too small to be a world class centre back, but then again Canavaro was one, if not the best when Italy won the world cup last.

Dani Alves- Typical Brazilian

Abidal- Missing all season due to Liver problems

Mascherano- He is a converted midfielder, again not big enough to handle players like Drogba

Adriano- See Alves

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by GG on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 9:26 am

Crimey wrote:
Hero wrote:Gomez has scored 40 goals this season in 48 games.
That's better than the Premier league player of the year Van Persie who has 34 goals in 45 games.

As I said in my post, there is serious doubt on the finishing ability of Gomez, and he showed this over the two legs as he failed to really show finishing ability, failing to convert serious chances. It could be that Bayern are creating so many chances and have a better finisher than Gomez and they'd score even more!

2 games mate. Stop knee jerking.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Gregers on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 9:36 am

The_Essence_of_Excellence wrote:You could argue that Barca are no better.

Valdes. He is a RUBBISH goal keeper. The only reason he has not been replaced is because if he concedes or makes an error it won't matter as they score so many.

Puyol- Legs have gone he is past his sell by date.

Pique- Too small to be a world class centre back, but then again Canavaro was one, if not the best when Italy won the world cup last.

Dani Alves- Typical Brazilian

Abidal- Missing all season due to Liver problems

Mascherano- He is a converted midfielder, again not big enough to handle players like Drogba

Adriano- See Alves

Bit harsh to put Abidal on this list given his "liver problems!. And I'd argue that Pique is probably their only defender who could be classed as world class. Agree on the rest though.

Alves, whilst a better right back than Glen Johnson, cannot defend.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by The Special Juan on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 9:43 am

Pique is overrated, he's just built like a wall :/
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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Hero on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 9:46 am

GG wrote:
Crimey wrote:
Hero wrote:Gomez has scored 40 goals this season in 48 games.
That's better than the Premier league player of the year Van Persie who has 34 goals in 45 games.

As I said in my post, there is serious doubt on the finishing ability of Gomez, and he showed this over the two legs as he failed to really show finishing ability, failing to convert serious chances. It could be that Bayern are creating so many chances and have a better finisher than Gomez and they'd score even more!

2 games mate. Stop knee jerking.

That Messi too couldn't score past 10 Chelsea players or convert a penalty, clearly the 63 goals this season were flukes.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Guest on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 9:55 am

I think Madrid have never replaced Hierro in fairness. Helguera was ok and Pavon wasn't special. Cannavaro was an implusive signing based on Italy and their success in 2006. when Madrid had Makelele and Hierro, it was just a formidable defensive unit. Yes Makelele was a midfielder, but him and Hierro were able to control play from back upwards. Madrid also had superb Full Backs in Salgado and Carlos. This the whole issue I have had with Spain being declared a superb team. Defensively they haven't got what I would call World Class defenders. Pepe is awful. Ramos has gone down hill. I think they even signed Metzelder?!? Carvalho is past his best. I would imagine many fans will wonder how Real have managed to secure La Liga. I think a lot of it is down to Madrid defending with 10 men behind the ball.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by ReallyReal on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 2:12 pm

Surely defending throughout the world has dropped in standard over the last few years though, or am I alone in thinking this?
There seem to be 2 obvious reasons for this too;
1. People now want defenders who can play a bit, pass well and start attacks, this has meant that many great defenders will never rise to the very top, just because they can't pick a decent pass, or dribble the ball out of defence.
2. Officials have been forced to give freekicks for more minor challenges over the last decade and it seems that more and more good tackles; where the ball has clearly been won; are now classed as fouls, some are even bookable or sending off offences, forwards know this and as they're rarely punished for cheating, they'll try everything to win a freekick.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Hero on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 2:58 pm

I said something similar the other day, it no longer seems to be the main factor when picking a defender in that they can actually defend.
Rafael at Utd as prime example, going forward he's a threat, defending he's a clear liability.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Crimey on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 6:26 pm

GG wrote:
Crimey wrote:
Hero wrote:Gomez has scored 40 goals this season in 48 games.
That's better than the Premier league player of the year Van Persie who has 34 goals in 45 games.

As I said in my post, there is serious doubt on the finishing ability of Gomez, and he showed this over the two legs as he failed to really show finishing ability, failing to convert serious chances. It could be that Bayern are creating so many chances and have a better finisher than Gomez and they'd score even more!

2 games mate. Stop knee jerking.

Questions have been asked for years actually, it's why Gomez wasn't a starter during the 2010 World Cup because he wasted so many chances at international level.

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Re: Real Madrid- are their centre backs good enough?

Post by Imperial Ghosty on Fri 27 Apr 2012, 7:40 pm

To be fair that is 2 seasons ago now since when he has really stepped it up a notch, he's had two average games but that doesn't change the whole season that has passed.

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