Roland Garros - Day 4 30/5/12

Hello



Another beautiful day in Paris.

Let the fun begin....

Minions, oh minions, oh minions.

One to watch out for today: Big Bird vs Llodra. H2H 2-2. But Llodra has won their only meeting at the FO in 2008. However you'd have to go for Berdy.

Also on today: Djoker, Fedster and Tsonga.

On the women's side is there a possibility of another huge upset after the drama of yesterday. Azarenka wobbled her way through the first round. How will she fair against the unknown and unpronounceable opponent today?

Once again minions around the universe,

Let's get ready to ruuuuuuuuuuumble.



emancipator - universal tennis correspondent

Djoko is 1st up on Lenglen and Fed is on Chatrier - perhaps Djoko is not RG royalty yet....

Ferrero vs. Cilic 2nd up on Court 7 looked a potentially interesting match-up - they've only met once before when Cilic won at Cincinnati in 2009.

Djoko just destroying this guy.

Looks very good. Sharp as a knife so far.

Looks like a fresh morning bagel coming up. Yum yum.

Fancy Ferrero to maybe upset Cilic.

Djoko broken nicely. 3:1

emancipator wrote:Looks like a fresh morning bagel coming up. Yum yum.

Djokoic getting his own personalised breadstick in the second set, perhaps.

watching ERV vs DelPo at the moment. decent match too

Yep and its looking a nice long one too

Fed kicking @ss 3:0

Does anyone agree that IBM's Slamtracker is a load of old fluff and far inferior to the usual scoreboards. For a start it does not show the player's H2H, nor have I found an easy link to the player's profiles, nor does it show the time of the match so I can't whine on about how long Nadal takes. With one caveat it's a classic example of more is less.

The caveat is that the "keys to the match" analysis may be interesting with match-ups that we know well towards the end of the week, but it's pretty silly to see that some low-rank player who is getting gubbed is nonetheless achieving target on one of his key strengths.

What a fight from Kavcic. Go on boy take the set.

Djoko gets it, one of his worst plays of the year. Playing like this he is not going to SF.

Federer playing rubbish.

He's gonna get mauled by Berdych if he doesnt step up.

Whats happened to Federer in this 3rd set? seems to be lacking determination

TB coming

6-6 two MPs missed by Fed, shanks.

He looks toothless.

SP no.3 UNG

nice SHBH to SHBH and guess who dips it into the net.....

4h set time and i have to go, damn.

Interesting! Still expect to Fed to roll him over in the 4th though...

Very, very poor from Federer in that TB.

It was Ungur who looked more like a number 3 than the Fedster .....

lydian wrote:Interesting! Still expect to Fed to roll him over in the 4th though...

yep, although maybe avoid the bread product 6-2 or something

Rather sloppy stuff from Fed there. Ungur did well to hold in there, so some credit to him. Does make you wonder though, would Fed a few years ago have allowed this to go to a 4th set? I doubt it.

Fed now 3-0 up in the fourth. Shouldn't have gone this far, though.

Fed wins. 6-3 in the fourth. What do you say? Does a far-from-convincing win mean he's not playing well, or does a harder-than-expected scrap bode well for later in the tournament?

Fed just looks toothless on clay (apart from Madrid). His weapons are not as sharp as they once were.

Game Set and Mats for me tonight.

SFP I think it's too early. Judging by some of the live commentary even Djokovic was struggling in some stage in his match. Same with Murray yesterday. I think the lower ranked players must've seen IC's article about the 'Warrior' spirit as it sounded like Ungur and Kavcic gave a good fist of it.

Llodra - berdy next.

Could be interesting.

Much as I detest the odious frenchman, I wouldn't mind him doing Roger a favour.



emancipator - neutral tennis fan

RG isn't the test for Fed, the semi or final would be good of course and it's only the points he gains that matter (so he can maintain his momentum towards No.1 spot). Losing a set in R2 of RG doesn't mean much, rather early on in a tournament which is hardly his strongest surface. if this was on grass I would worry, like when he was pushed to 5 sets against Falla in R1 in Wimbledon 2010, it was clear to me from then he wouldn't win Wimbledon that year.

The test is on grass @ Halle, Wimbledon & the Olympics.

Saw a bit of the Djoko match and Nole, although wonderfully consistent and controlled, looked to be having difficulty hitting any of his trademark big forehands. But hey - a win's a win. No good for Nole or Fed to breeze through the early rounds and then come a cropper the first time they face difficulties.

Ah well looks like Berdy's winning this one easily.

I'm amazed at how consistent he's become since 2010; he used to be the epitome of inconsistency.

If he could sort out his bad habit of choking at the key moments he would be a real slam contender.



emancipator

Lucius,

I think Roger's best chance for a slam this year will be at the USO.

His return game on grass has really deteriorated since 2006. That coupled with the slow surface and heavy balls means, I believe, that he would be a huge underdog against Rafa there, if they were to meet. Roger no longer seems to be able to hit through the court at W, similar to the dilemma at the FO.

If the courts play faster this year (unlkely) or if there were any attempts to change the balls to make them harder and faster, then I think his chances would shoot up. I believe he has the best natural apptitude for grass out of all the players but unfortunately the conditions in recent years have made W similar to a clay court, particularly in the second week when the grass has worn out, the ball bounces ridiculously high and the overall conditions are incredibly slow.

Therefore, the one place where his natural attacking game is still somewhat rewarded is the USO. I think that is clearly his best surface now.

emancipator wrote:Lucius,

I think Roger's best chance for a slam this year will be at the USO.

His return game on grass has really deteriorated since 2006. That coupled with the slow surface and heavy balls means, I believe, that he would be a huge underdog against Rafa there, if they were to meet. Roger no longer seems to be able to hit through the court at W, similar to the dilemma at the FO.

If the courts play faster this year (unlkely) or if there were any attempts to change the balls to make them harder and faster, then I think his chances would shoot up. I believe he has the best natural apptitude for grass out of all the players but unfortunately the conditions in recent years have made W similar to a clay court, particularly in the second week when the grass has worn out, the ball bounces ridiculously high and the overall conditions are incredibly slow.

Therefore, the one place where his natural attacking game is still somewhat rewarded is the USO. I think that is clearly his best surface now.

You have hit the nail on the head with regard to Federer's return game. This was painfully obvious at last year's Wimbledon, where he simply could not seem to cope with Tsonga's power, losing the match after being two sets up. Roger has simply lost a step and that's why he is more prone to shanks and errors these days.

At the level these guys play at, the difference between hitting the line and hitting the ball long is just a millisecond delay in reaction time. Roger may be have improved his game in many aspects, but his movement is simply not the same.

I can see Berdy overtaking Murray to 4th spot this year...

Didn't see the match so have no idea on quality, but the only thing i would say as a Fed supporter is that he wasn't broken and he did create plenty of chances.

From the fragments I saw in R1 he seems like he'd rather keep rallies short and sweet, which means errors. I'm supportive of that.

kemet wrote:

emancipator wrote:Lucius,

I think Roger's best chance for a slam this year will be at the USO.

His return game on grass has really deteriorated since 2006. That coupled with the slow surface and heavy balls means, I believe, that he would be a huge underdog against Rafa there, if they were to meet. Roger no longer seems to be able to hit through the court at W, similar to the dilemma at the FO.

If the courts play faster this year (unlkely) or if there were any attempts to change the balls to make them harder and faster, then I think his chances would shoot up. I believe he has the best natural apptitude for grass out of all the players but unfortunately the conditions in recent years have made W similar to a clay court, particularly in the second week when the grass has worn out, the ball bounces ridiculously high and the overall conditions are incredibly slow.

Therefore, the one place where his natural attacking game is still somewhat rewarded is the USO. I think that is clearly his best surface now.

You have hit the nail on the head with regard to Federer's return game. This was painfully obvious at last year's Wimbledon, where he simply could not seem to cope with Tsonga's power, losing the match after being two sets up. Roger has simply lost a step and that's why he is more prone to shanks and errors these days.

At the level these guys play at, the difference between hitting the line and hitting the ball long is just a millisecond delay in reaction time. Roger may be have improved his game in many aspects, but his movement is simply not the same.

100/100. Gold Star.

lydian wrote:I can see Berdy overtaking Murray to 4th spot this year...

I said something similar a while back. Watching his semi final in Rome against Nadal I was very impressed. Wish he wasn't in Federer's quarter...

lydian wrote:I can see Berdy overtaking Murray to 4th spot this year...

He is going to need some year for that. Winning 2 Masters at least...

Maybe LK, or go deeper than Murray in the rest of the slams. But he is getting more consistent and is a huge threat to the top guys now.

HE...I think he'll beat Roger here. But Berdy will have to get through JMDP first! (although Delpo's knee injury makes Berdy's life easier)

He does stand an even better chance @ the USO, I agree on that. The issue is that he still needs to the points from the grass court season, otherwise, he can forget the No.1 spot. Reaching the quarters @ Wimbledon won't be enough, he needs to make the semis or the finals, even if he's great on grass as he once was.

Berdych is already ahead of Murray in the race.

I think berdych is definitely the one to watch. Del potro already has hands full with cilic in next round, would expect berdych to beat del potro anyway. Berdy has been in great form and is far more likely to upset federer than del potro. Fed has delpos number the past couple of years and particularly this year. Hope I don't jinx nerdy but I fancy him to make the semis

kemet wrote:

emancipator wrote:Lucius,

I think Roger's best chance for a slam this year will be at the USO.

His return game on grass has really deteriorated since 2006. That coupled with the slow surface and heavy balls means, I believe, that he would be a huge underdog against Rafa there, if they were to meet. Roger no longer seems to be able to hit through the court at W, similar to the dilemma at the FO.

If the courts play faster this year (unlkely) or if there were any attempts to change the balls to make them harder and faster, then I think his chances would shoot up. I believe he has the best natural apptitude for grass out of all the players but unfortunately the conditions in recent years have made W similar to a clay court, particularly in the second week when the grass has worn out, the ball bounces ridiculously high and the overall conditions are incredibly slow.

Therefore, the one place where his natural attacking game is still somewhat rewarded is the USO. I think that is clearly his best surface now.

You have hit the nail on the head with regard to Federer's return game. This was painfully obvious at last year's Wimbledon, where he simply could not seem to cope with Tsonga's power, losing the match after being two sets up. Roger has simply lost a step and that's why he is more prone to shanks and errors these days.

At the level these guys play at, the difference between hitting the line and hitting the ball long is just a millisecond delay in reaction time. Roger may be have improved his game in many aspects, but his movement is simply not the same.

I agree, movement is the component that seperates the top four from the rest of the tour. Roger can perhaps run as fast as he used over 100m but his agility, anticipation, ability to change direction are not what they used to be. Even today the opponent was hitting so many balls that Roger couldn't get to. In the past he was able to get to those balls and play deep defensive replies; now he just gives up on them. This is why big hitters like Berdych and Tsonga can hit through him more easily whereas in the past those same guys and others such as Soderling, Blake couldn't put the ball away against him. This same loss of movement is the reason why he can't hang from the baseline against the top guys.

I think Roger realises that the only solution is to be aggressive and end the points quickly. Unfortunately the permeating conditions make it very difficult for him to do that.

emancipator wrote:

kemet wrote:

emancipator wrote:Lucius,

I think Roger's best chance for a slam this year will be at the USO.

His return game on grass has really deteriorated since 2006. That coupled with the slow surface and heavy balls means, I believe, that he would be a huge underdog against Rafa there, if they were to meet. Roger no longer seems to be able to hit through the court at W, similar to the dilemma at the FO.

If the courts play faster this year (unlkely) or if there were any attempts to change the balls to make them harder and faster, then I think his chances would shoot up. I believe he has the best natural apptitude for grass out of all the players but unfortunately the conditions in recent years have made W similar to a clay court, particularly in the second week when the grass has worn out, the ball bounces ridiculously high and the overall conditions are incredibly slow.

Therefore, the one place where his natural attacking game is still somewhat rewarded is the USO. I think that is clearly his best surface now.

You have hit the nail on the head with regard to Federer's return game. This was painfully obvious at last year's Wimbledon, where he simply could not seem to cope with Tsonga's power, losing the match after being two sets up. Roger has simply lost a step and that's why he is more prone to shanks and errors these days.

At the level these guys play at, the difference between hitting the line and hitting the ball long is just a millisecond delay in reaction time. Roger may be have improved his game in many aspects, but his movement is simply not the same.

I agree, movement is the component that seperates the top four from the rest of the tour. Roger can perhaps run as fast as he used over 100m but his agility, anticipation, ability to change direction are not what they used to be. Even today the opponent was hitting so many balls that Roger couldn't get to. In the past he was able to get to those balls and play deep defensive replies; now he just gives up on them. This is why big hitters like Berdych and Tsonga can hit through him more easily whereas in the past those same guys and others such as Soderling, Blake couldn't put the ball away against him. This same loss of movement is the reason why he can't hang from the baseline against the top guys.

I think Roger realises that the only solution is to be aggressive and end the points quickly. Unfortunately the permeating conditions make it very difficult for him to do that.

Yep, I agree 100%. Good point on his baseline play. Nowadays, Roger is so vulnerable as matches wear on and on a grinder's service such as RG, it is no wonder he only has a puncher's chance against an excellent mover such as Rafa Nadal and is finding it more and more difficult to beat Novak Djokovic. I actually think that privately, Roger realizes that he is on the decline and that he is putting on a brave face for the public.

This is Annacone's raison d'etre. He gets his players playing ultra-aggressive, hence you see Fed's serve in better nick than ever, he's taking the ball earlier than ever, getting into the net more, keeping points short. But its chicken and egg...

EITHER
a) His explosive moment is slower...so he plays more aggressively
b) He plays more aggressively...so his explosive movement suffers

My point is that its not just Point a) necessarily that is driving the reduced movement. Point b) may result from a purposeful strategy of being more aggressive - he becomes less reliant on extended side-to-side baseline movement so the flexible and speed there may suffer.
Or in other words playing aggressively may create a vicious a) to b) cycle.
The other factor is the increasingly important of the DHBH shot though...especially on returns. I think this is another factor that hurts him more with time. Look at the rest of the top 6-7 BHs. Its a beautiful shot but one being rendered obselete by the power game.

Very disappointing end to the match for Venus. Gets broken after being up 40-15.

Nothing more to say really.

the williams sissters out by thursday who would of thought that monday?

lydian wrote:This is Annacone's raison d'etre. He gets his players playing ultra-aggressive, hence you see Fed's serve in better nick than ever, he's taking the ball earlier than ever, getting into the net more, keeping points short. But its chicken and egg...

EITHER
a) His explosive moment is slower...so he plays more aggressively
b) He plays more aggressively...so his explosive movement suffers

My point is that its not just a) necessarily. Point b) may follow his purposeful strategy of being aggressive as he becomes less reliant on extended side-to-side baseline movement.

Good points about Annacone. The problem is that these tactics are not going to work at RG, where point construction and movement are more important than aggressive, first strike tennis. In the past, I always felt that Roger was a capable clay court player who was unlucky to come up against such a great player such as Rafa whose dominance on the red dirt is simply unparalleled. Now, Roger has to contend with his own physcial limitations, and the continuous improvement of Rafa. As a Federer fan, if Roger were to make it to the final to play Nadal, the tournament organizers may as well save Rafa, Roger, and the fans the trouble of sitting through a match and award Rafa the trophy. There is simply nothing that Roger can do to hurt Rafa on this surface. Djokovic, recent defeats notwithstanding, still poses a better challenge to Rafa.

Broadly right on Fed, but I think it only underlines how difficult it is to be at the top by 31 (virtually) in 2012.
He's still the man on a fast court. Pity there aren't many left.....

On a fast court yes...and his focus on a fast-court approach with Annacone is kind of amplifying that polarisation for him now. He's kind of had to nail his colours to one mast...fast or slow...no use being half good at both at this stage of his career.

But the French Open this year is as clay should be...slow.
We should make no apologies for or lament this surface.
Its a true speciality surface challenge...as it should be.

In some respects at least this surface is the one staying true to its origins and the balls are also as they should be (besides the anomaly of 2011 which helped give Federer a good run last year IMO).
Its the other surfaces where the speed problem lies.
Wimbledon is THE major offender - spitting in the face of its origins and play-style. Then USO afterwards too. Much less so AO but even that has changed alot. Its been the "DecoTurfing" of the whole tour thats the issue for me. Not racquets or strings...they arent THAT different to 10-15 years ago. Its the "decoturfin"g thats created a mentality of uniformity. TDs follow each other like sheep and order the courts dug up and DecoTurf medium pace laid down...nice consistent bounces, and easy to maintain from one year to the next. And nice long ralleys for the punters...and who cares about the players bodies/injuries on these hard surfaces. Oh but hang on...we're (TDs/TV co's) not sure we like 5-6 hour matches now...and its the same top 4 in all the semis...its getting boring. We had boring ace-fests in the 90s so we had to change...now its "top4-fests" and never-ending matches in the 10s! Oh blimey...we're in a right pickle...hmmm, maybe we need to speed them up again they (and the media commentators) start to think.

Too late, you've already killed off S&V and SHBHs! That'll take a generation to recover from!

So with this new uniformity Fed has had to find a new USP on tour...and its playing aggressive that has stopped his slide down the rankings and actually caught a lot of players unawares as they're not really used to playing guys like that anymore! The hunted once more becomes the hunter!