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Tony Brown's Letter

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 07 Jun 2012, 9:53 pm

I've been meaning to post this for a while; it's a lousy night out there so I'm getting 'round to it now.

The Dragons posted me details of next season's season-ticket offers the other week. The booklet came with a letter written by Tony Brown, former benefactor of Newport RFC and now a member of the Dragons' Board of Directors. This is what he wrote:

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Dear Season Ticket Holder,

I hope you will not mind me writing to you but I am doing so since you are a season ticket holder and a good supporter of rugby at Rodney Parade.

I fully appreciate that we have experienced a difficult season and, for this reason, you may well be considering whether you should back us for a further season.

The purpose of my letter is to urge you to continue your support for our teams and to give you some details of the problems currently facing us.

Similar to the other Welsh regions, Newport Gwent Dragons, as well as Newport RFC are facing liquidity problems. The new stand cost us considerably more than its original budget and the region has had no proper executive direction for some years. Despite the generosity of our Directors, our debt is considerable.

That is the bad news but to counteract that we do have some good. First, three months ago we appointed a new Chief Executive, Chris Brown (no relation, I hasten to add), who is doing a first class job but it will take him some time to pull everything together. Second, we do own the freehold of our ground, which, with the building of the new stand has probably created the best club stadium in Wales for atmosphere.

If we can get through the next six months then I am confident that we can build for the future and create great rugby at Rodney Parade once again.

Please renew your season ticket and, if possible, ask your friends to join you. Your continued support is absolutely critical to our future.

Very sincerely,

Tony Brown.

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Now, I'm not stupid - I know he's after money, simple as that; but I thought it was a great letter to have written. The Dragons could have pretended that everything was hunky dory, that we'd had a great season and just asked us to renew our season tickets. But no, Tony Brown acknowledges that it's been a disappointing season. He also levels with us when it comes to our financial situation. He didn't need to do either of those things. I respect him for that.

Anyway, what do you make of it?

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Post by Glas a du Thu 07 Jun 2012, 10:02 pm

I'd run a mile. Better if he sought to build bridges with the Gwent Valleys.

Can you give me your round tuit. I may get more things done.
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Post by Shifty Thu 07 Jun 2012, 10:11 pm

If we can get through the next six months

IF? Bloody hell I'd be shítting myself if the Ospreys wrote me a letter like that.
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Post by manofgwent Thu 07 Jun 2012, 10:14 pm

I also had the begging letter! It's positive to hear some honesty, just a shame it's such terrible news. I know a few fans who aren't renewing and i'm not sure if his letter helps or not. On one hand, you think that you shoud continue to show support, but what if you spend £200 on a season ticket and we get folded in January?
I honestly thought at the end of the 2011 season, things were really on the up. We finished the season strongly, had a record 5 call ups to the Welsh squad, The Bisley stand was under construction and i thought that success would follow. I thought that if we can spend that much money on a new stand, then all we needed were a couple of big signings to fill it and get sponsors on board and the two would go hand in hand. However, we have a cracking new stand, that cost a fortune, is crippling the region, we can't fill it and we won't get the corporates in, so it's a lose lose situation.
With Charteris, Brew, Tovey and Martyn Thomas off the wage bill you'd think that would free up money to invest in the squad, but it's obviously needed to repay debts. It's now obvious that Faletau and Lydiate will have to leave when their contracts expire, so we'll be left in a position where we have no internationals and only developing for the other regions.
Apparently appointing a new chief exec is a good thing. We were told that it was good news when we appointed the previous ones! We've had so many 5 year plans it's beyond belief. I fear to think where the Dragons will be in 5 years.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu 07 Jun 2012, 10:34 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

If we can get through the next six months then I am confident that we can build for the future and create great rugby at Rodney Parade once again.


What's significant about 6 months?

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Post by manofgwent Thu 07 Jun 2012, 11:12 pm

Dave. I had the letter about a month ago. I think the Dragons want fans to buy tickets as early as possible, just to bring in revenue through the summer. When you think, there is not really any rugby played in the 4 months between may and august, so the dragons want fans who are renewing season tickets, to do it as quickly as possible. Seriously worrying times. Oh and we aren't employing a full-time forwards coach for definate. It's like supporting Newport 20 years ago! Desperate!

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 8:02 am

manofgwent wrote:I honestly thought at the end of the 2011 season, things were really on the up. We finished the season strongly, had a record 5 call ups to the Welsh squad, The Bisley stand was under construction and i thought that success would follow.

We all did - that's what made this season such a disappointment, and that's also why I think Tony Brown's letter was a good move. He could easily have pretended that we'd had a good season and that we were on the up, but no, he's acknowledged how things have gone.

I'm renewing my season ticket. Did this letter help me make up my mind? Not really. But I hope it convinces those who are in two minds about it.

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Post by manofgwent Fri 08 Jun 2012, 8:26 am

The news that Danny Lydiate is having an op after the summer tour and missing the start of the season is another blow. The regional game is getting like county cricket. He'll probably return for the AI's!

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 8:31 am

I don't think things are as bad as county cricket yet, MOG - but if the rumours are true and the WRU go down the central contracts route, we could end up there.

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Post by Guest Fri 08 Jun 2012, 9:26 am

I got the letter too and I'm not sure what to make of it. On the one hand it is a begging letter and I was a bit shocked by it, but on the other hand it takes a lot for a proud businessman to put his name to a letter like that and it did make me sit up and take notice more than if it had been written by the head of Marketing - which it probably was to be honest, but Brown didn't have to put his name to it!

However, it pains me to say that I have decided not to renew. I've had a season ticket at RP since 1998 with Newport RFC and then I ditched that for a Dragons one at the start of regional rugby in 2003. 14 years. I'd love to say that there have been many ups and downs in that time, but in reality there have mainly been downs. From the competitive squad we had at the Dragons in 2003 with a number of interntaonal players, we've chipped away at the sqaud gradually until there's not much left but kids and journeymen. OK, we've got Toby and Dan. But I see no way at all that they'll be there for their next contract. People criticise the Dragons for not signing the likes of Craig Mitchell, Dominic Day, Lou Reed, etc. but I think the reality is that they don't want to come to us. And that's a bitter pill to swallow. Players would prefer to go outside Wales and potentially ruin their chances of playing for Wales than come to the Dragons - the WRU and the Dragons need to look at that seriously if they want 4 competitive teams. Otherwise, there's no point in the Dragons existing.

Most of the slide in fortunes is due to money, and I do realise that not renewing my ticket only adds to the problem. However, gone are the days of fortress Rodney Parade and with it my enthusiasm for attending games. We've always been awful away, but at home I'm seen us beat the likes of Perpignan, Leinster and Munster, Stade Francais (I think?!), Leicester (I think?!), etc. Even when we used to lose to big teams it was by a few points only. Now, I watch home games with my hands over my eyes. We lose to the likes of Connacht (with all due respect - they've come on leaps and bounds) and struggle in every competition we play in. I don't look forward to attending anymore.

I hope I'm not seen as a fair weather supporter. 14 years with a season ticket is just under half my life, but with a young daughter and the rush from work to attend the mainly Friday night games, coupled with the cr*p product on the pitch, I just feel that I need to take a step away. Hopefully, I'll get the rugby bug back after a bit of time out, and I'll always support them, but for now I've got little time for them. Shame on me!

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 9:46 am

That's fair enough, Griff. Smile

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Post by manofgwent Fri 08 Jun 2012, 10:26 am

Can't argue with Griff at all. The Dragons give little back to their loyal supporters. We are now a weaker team than 5 years ago. We bring through a good crop of players and then they desert us. We give young players a chance, but we don't show the ambition that these players want. I think the signing of Tom Prydie is great, but he's using us as a stepping stone. I don't blame anyone for leaving. A year ago we were linked with Matthew Morgan, our chief exec was making out that we were in for top class players when Gavin Henson became available!! Why the lies? Why would he have ever come here?? Last summer we were linked to big names. We got Chavhanga and the fat Tuilagi. Their only big names on a scrabble board!!! We are now a team of youngsters, has beens, prem players and the odd very average foreigner. The Ospreys and Scarlets put us to shame!
I'm not renewing either. Why should I cough up good money to watch a poor team in an horrendous league. I'm paying when there are plenty getting freebies!! I've been a season ticket holder since the regions began and off and on with newport before that, but I genuinely think that some will get behind the county now. 3pm kick offs on a Saturday afternoon is very appealing!


Last edited by manofgwent on Fri 08 Jun 2012, 10:30 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)

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Post by manofgwent Fri 08 Jun 2012, 10:45 am

Just had another example of the Dragons feeding the fans more good news that really isn't. They've just tweeted that we have 2 players in the U20's team. Wow 2!! Do they realise that 2 out of 15 isn't very good? One of which is new recruit Prydie. So we've produced 1 starter. We get the same when Lydiate and Faletau get called into a 33 man squad. It's just embarrassing!

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Post by Guest Fri 08 Jun 2012, 10:54 am

I agree MOG. I don't want to start putting the Dragons down, but celebrating small successes is fine initially. However, we've never developed on from there. Back in 2003, a few players in the Welsh squad should be something to shout about and to build on. 2 players in the Welsh team 9 years on is only demonstrating our failure to grow and develop.

Sometimes I get the feeling that everyone working at the Dragons believes that we're a development region, that we're a smaller region than the others, that we're in some way inferior. They've become entrenched in the media portrayal of the Dragons as inferior to the others, a sort of '3 main regions and then the Dragons beneathn them' mentality. They forget that it's an equal 4 way split. We get the same fudning from the WRU. The fact we can't add to it to bolster out funds is the failing of the Dragons only. We blame the others having benefactors when we don't (Tony Brown doesn't put money in because it's not soley 'Newport), but that in itself is a failing. Attract a new benefactor! Work harder to get sponsors! We're one of 4 equal regions (in terms of expectations, funding, aims and objectives, etc.), it's just we're not pulling our weight and we're holding ourselves back by blaming others for our failings.

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Post by manofgwent Fri 08 Jun 2012, 11:05 am

Griff. The new stand looked like we would finally push on. Surely we had to sign a couple of big names if we were to spend the millions we did on it. If we brought in some stars along with the likes of Brew, Toby and Danny, then we'd have attracted sponsors and bigger crowds. I genuinely thought it would go hand in hand. Now we have a new stand that's bleeding the region, we can't get the sponsors or Rhe crowds as we can't afford to hold onto our better players and it's only going to get worse.
I agree. I never understood it when people would say, make the Dragons a development region. We weren't Connacht, we are on a level playing field with the rest. But we are a development region, we may not have the official title, but that's what we are.
The Dragons will always have a hardcore few thousand fans, but I think they'll struggle to get the poor attendances we've been getting. Desperate times indeed.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 08 Jun 2012, 11:26 am

manofgwent wrote:Dave. I had the letter about a month ago. I think the Dragons want fans to buy tickets as early as possible, just to bring in revenue through the summer. When you think, there is not really any rugby played in the 4 months between may and august, so the dragons want fans who are renewing season tickets, to do it as quickly as possible. Seriously worrying times. Oh and we aren't employing a full-time forwards coach for definate. It's like supporting Newport 20 years ago! Desperate!

A massive understatement, I would say.
Tony Brown seems to be scraping the barrel a bit trying to come up with some good news. A chief exec can only do so much with what he has to work with and Rodney Parade always has been a great club ground anyway. The new stand just enhanced it, but unfortunately, at huge cost which the cynic that I am does make me wonder. Experiencing the CCS debacle caused me to distrust those at the top immensely.

Also, where is the direction from those in charge? There doesn't seem to be any and Newport GD have been idling for far too long.
"If we can get through the next six months then I am confident that we can build for the future and create great rugby at Rodney Parade once again."
Does this sentence fill Drags fans with confidence? I doubt it.
Seriously worrying times they certainly are and I wouldn't renew my season ticket either until the board came up with some kind of forward looking plan showing how they are going to rectify matters with some ambition thrown in for good measure.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 11:38 am

Well I've just bought my season ticket, Hazell Terrace again. I must be a glutton for punishment!

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Post by manofgwent Fri 08 Jun 2012, 12:17 pm

Luckless. You should get a few games until they fold us!!
Dave. Maybe on reflection it wasn't the right time to build the new stand. The facilities at the Dragons are still in the dark ages. Maybe they should have waited until the economy is a little more stable. We've had numerous plans, all of which haven't materialised.
If you take lydiate and faletaunout of the team, which they will be for a large chunk of the season, I think we'll only be above the zebra's. We won't compete in the Anlin. We'd probably struggle to win the premiership!!

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Post by Cymroglan Fri 08 Jun 2012, 12:20 pm

Out of curiosity how much are they charging for a season ticket this year ?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 12:29 pm

They've frozen the prices across the board more or less. My ticket for the Hazell was £160.

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Post by manofgwent Fri 08 Jun 2012, 12:36 pm

If you buy early it's £160 to stand in the Hazell. It's a good deal, but I missed 4 games last year. I was away for two of them and didn't fancy the Glasgow 5pm on a Sunday or the Prato, Amlin games! In truth, I wish I'd missed more. Leinster at Aironi games were so poor I nearly slipped into a coma!
The County may benefit with their 3pm Saturday afternoon kick offs!

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 12:38 pm

MOG, worst game for me was when we lost to a second-string Scarlets side. They were terrible yet they still had enough to beat us.

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Post by Stone Motif Fri 08 Jun 2012, 12:43 pm

Glas a du wrote:I'd run a mile. Better if he sought to build bridges with the Gwent Valleys.

Can you give me your round tuit. I may get more things done.

Any trip to the Dragons website will show how much effort the Dragons make around Gwent - those who don't come, don't want to. You can lead a horse to water...
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Post by Stone Motif Fri 08 Jun 2012, 12:44 pm

AlynDavies wrote:
If we can get through the next six months

IF? Bloody hell I'd be shítting myself if the Ospreys wrote me a letter like that.

I'd be Poopie myself if we'd had a winding up order and we were giving away 5 free season tickets with every one we sold.
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Post by Stone Motif Fri 08 Jun 2012, 12:52 pm

Griff wrote:I agree MOG. I don't want to start putting the Dragons down, but celebrating small successes is fine initially. However, we've never developed on from there. Back in 2003, a few players in the Welsh squad should be something to shout about and to build on. 2 players in the Welsh team 9 years on is only demonstrating our failure to grow and develop.

Sometimes I get the feeling that everyone working at the Dragons believes that we're a development region, that we're a smaller region than the others, that we're in some way inferior. They've become entrenched in the media portrayal of the Dragons as inferior to the others, a sort of '3 main regions and then the Dragons beneathn them' mentality. They forget that it's an equal 4 way split. We get the same fudning from the WRU. The fact we can't add to it to bolster out funds is the failing of the Dragons only. We blame the others having benefactors when we don't (Tony Brown doesn't put money in because it's not soley 'Newport), but that in itself is a failing. Attract a new benefactor! Work harder to get sponsors! We're one of 4 equal regions (in terms of expectations, funding, aims and objectives, etc.), it's just we're not pulling our weight and we're holding ourselves back by blaming others for our failings.

You've got this the wrong way round in my opinion. Our failure to 'grow and develop', and attract investment, and the real reason Tony Brown doesn't put more money in has got nothing to do with 'Newport' and everything to do with the WRU, who are sat on 50% of the region and doing absolutely nothing with it. Tony Brown stumped up the cash when we were just Gwent Dragons, it was the hard-done-by Gwent disenfranchised Ebbw Vale who refused to hold up their end of the bargain.

As for the split of funds we are entirely entitled to an equal share as it is simply tv and participation money parcelled out by the WRU. We take an equal part as the other three so are entitled to what we recieve. Were the Dragons to come bottom every season the WRU we would be entitled to the same.

If we are failing anywhere then it is in failing to get our 50% back. That in itself is a failing of the 'rest of Gwent' to step up to the mark as much as it is the Dragons, and the WRU don't help by sitting on their ownership as their ace to form a new franchise the minute one becomes viable. We've run a tight ship over the past few years and anyone who supports Gwent rugby at any level in the hope of instant success is barking up the wrong tree.
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Post by manofgwent Fri 08 Jun 2012, 1:00 pm

I thought the WRU were now giving funding based on how many internationals a region has. Every region gets a basic, then you get more if you've got a certain number in the national team. Is this not the case anymore? I thought this is why the WRU aren't too worried about players leaving for France as they don't have to part with as much cash. I heard one of the Dragons departing for France mention this.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 1:24 pm

So if Jason Tovey gets a Welsh cap, the Blues get a bonus? How is that fair?

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Post by manofgwent Fri 08 Jun 2012, 1:30 pm

I'm not 100% that this Is still the case, but I'm pretty sure that those are the plans. It means the Dragons will get hit even harder as we don't have many internationals. If it does come in, it'll will mean that the strongest get stronger and the weakest, weaker and yes if you develop a player who gets capped at another region, tough!

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Post by Guest Fri 08 Jun 2012, 1:33 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Griff wrote:I agree MOG. I don't want to start putting the Dragons down, but celebrating small successes is fine initially. However, we've never developed on from there. Back in 2003, a few players in the Welsh squad should be something to shout about and to build on. 2 players in the Welsh team 9 years on is only demonstrating our failure to grow and develop.

Sometimes I get the feeling that everyone working at the Dragons believes that we're a development region, that we're a smaller region than the others, that we're in some way inferior. They've become entrenched in the media portrayal of the Dragons as inferior to the others, a sort of '3 main regions and then the Dragons beneathn them' mentality. They forget that it's an equal 4 way split. We get the same fudning from the WRU. The fact we can't add to it to bolster out funds is the failing of the Dragons only. We blame the others having benefactors when we don't (Tony Brown doesn't put money in because it's not soley 'Newport), but that in itself is a failing. Attract a new benefactor! Work harder to get sponsors! We're one of 4 equal regions (in terms of expectations, funding, aims and objectives, etc.), it's just we're not pulling our weight and we're holding ourselves back by blaming others for our failings.

You've got this the wrong way round in my opinion. Our failure to 'grow and develop', and attract investment, and the real reason Tony Brown doesn't put more money in has got nothing to do with 'Newport' and everything to do with the WRU, who are sat on 50% of the region and doing absolutely nothing with it. Tony Brown stumped up the cash when we were just Gwent Dragons, it was the hard-done-by Gwent disenfranchised Ebbw Vale who refused to hold up their end of the bargain.

As for the split of funds we are entirely entitled to an equal share as it is simply tv and participation money parcelled out by the WRU. We take an equal part as the other three so are entitled to what we recieve. Were the Dragons to come bottom every season the WRU we would be entitled to the same.

If we are failing anywhere then it is in failing to get our 50% back. That in itself is a failing of the 'rest of Gwent' to step up to the mark as much as it is the Dragons, and the WRU don't help by sitting on their ownership as their ace to form a new franchise the minute one becomes viable. We've run a tight ship over the past few years and anyone who supports Gwent rugby at any level in the hope of instant success is barking up the wrong tree.


What I mean by Tony Brown not putting his money in is that, so I've heard, that he would be happy to put millions into the region if it was called Newport and not the Dragons. I don't agree with him, but then it's not my money! He put a lot of money into Newport RFC for players, but this hasn't materialised for the Dragons. Therefore, if we want to keep up with the other regions we need to be better at attracting sponsorship and donations, and/or get Tony Brown to sell his share. He's been great over the years, but we're always going to be the poor region if our benefactor doesn't splash the cash when the other regions benefactors do.

And what I meant by the equal thing was not whether we deserve the money. I meant that our own managers, players and adminstrators in Gwent seem to have fallen into the mentality that we're a 'lesser' region, self-fulfilling the media-deirven stereotype, that we are somehow lower down the pecking order than the other 3. IMO that is entirely self-deprecating and is what is keeping us down. I think the players even believe this too and that's why they are not rpeapred to stick around and don't want to sign. It is not for the WRU to go out of their way to make us believe that we are an equal region - they already do by giving us an equal share of the money (which we're entitled to). It's up to us to prove that we're worthy of having a region in Gwent by catching up with the others in terms of player development, performance, sales, marketing, the lot. It's time to stop crying that we're unfairly treated, because I don't believe that we are.

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Post by Guest Fri 08 Jun 2012, 1:34 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:So if Jason Tovey gets a Welsh cap, the Blues get a bonus? How is that fair?

It's swings and roundabouts though - If Prydie gets capped next season and beyond then we'll get the money too, won't we?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 1:42 pm

Until the Ospreys want him back...

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Post by manofgwent Fri 08 Jun 2012, 1:58 pm

Griff. Not convinced Prydie will get back in the squad yet. If he does the business, he'll join another region. Our funding will be hit further when Danny and Toby head to France.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 08 Jun 2012, 2:01 pm

Griff wrote:

What I mean by Tony Brown not putting his money in is that, so I've heard, that he would be happy to put millions into the region if it was called Newport and not the Dragons.

The team IS called Newport, with Gwent Dragons stuck on the end and it plays at Rodney Parade that is owned by Newport RFC, based in the city of Newport. No surprises there then.
So let me get this straight, Tony Brown is willing to again put his millions in, if the team is just called Newport.
Sounds like a no brainer to me. Go for it.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 08 Jun 2012, 2:03 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:So if Jason Tovey gets a Welsh cap, the Blues get a bonus? How is that fair?

Because they will be paying his large salary.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 2:06 pm

Can you tell me how much more money Jason Tovey will be getting next season?

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Post by manofgwent Fri 08 Jun 2012, 2:18 pm

Luckless. Too much. Not convinced at all that Tovey will be the answer for the Blurs and certainly not Wales. Maybe it was because he was leaving the Dragons, but some of his performances lacked commitment. His lazy approach and awful defence have left many dragons fans quite pleased that he's left and not Jones or Robling. Some of his tweets were pure car crash too. Moaning and trying to get sympathy for not being involved in the tram. You couldn't blame Edwards for looking to the future. I think Tovey misread the situation and didn't expect the backlash.
He's left a poor region to join another poor region in my eyes. The Dragons can't compete, but nor will the Blues. It might get him a welsh cap, but he'll have to show a lot more if he wants to get in the squad, let alone get the number 10 jersey.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 08 Jun 2012, 2:24 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Can you tell me how much more money Jason Tovey will be getting next season?

No idea.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 2:26 pm

I thought as much. So when you said the Blues will be paying his 'large' salary, you didn't know just how much 'larger' it'll be, if it's any larger at all.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 08 Jun 2012, 2:30 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I thought as much. So when you said the Blues will be paying his 'large' salary, you didn't know just how much 'larger' it'll be, if it's any larger at all.

And?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 2:41 pm

It was your use of 'large'. If his salary isn't significantly more than the what he was on at the Dragons, then it's just one WRU-funded region paying his wages rather than another. Under those circumstances, I don't think it's fair that the region that developed him gets nothing and the region that signed him months before his call-up gets a bonus.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 08 Jun 2012, 2:55 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It was your use of 'large'. If his salary isn't significantly more than the what he was on at the Dragons, then it's just one WRU-funded region paying his wages rather than another. Under those circumstances, I don't think it's fair that the region that developed him gets nothing and the region that signed him months before his call-up gets a bonus.

We've been here before.
Teams deserve compensation if their paid employee is dragged off on team Wales duties. They are therefore unavailable to their employer which in some cases also has an adverse effect on match attendances and therefore gate receipts/income.
As for who developed who, well how far back would you go coz it could get a bit tricky?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jun 2012, 2:58 pm

I can't be @rsed to argue - it's Friday afternoon and I'm just clock-watching 'til four o'clock comes 'round. Sorry! Smile

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Post by Cardiff Dave Fri 08 Jun 2012, 3:05 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I can't be @rsed to argue - it's Friday afternoon and I'm just clock-watching 'til four o'clock comes 'round. Sorry! Smile

I'm not arguing because there's nothing to argue about.
If current Newport GD players are called up by team Wales then Newport GD deserve compensation regardless of where those players were previously employed or developed.

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Post by Stone Motif Sat 09 Jun 2012, 9:50 am

Griff wrote:

What I mean by Tony Brown not putting his money in is that, so I've heard, that he would be happy to put millions into the region if it was called Newport and not the Dragons. I don't agree with him, but then it's not my money! He put a lot of money into Newport RFC for players, but this hasn't materialised for the Dragons. Therefore, if we want to keep up with the other regions we need to be better at attracting sponsorship and donations, and/or get Tony Brown to sell his share. He's been great over the years, but we're always going to be the poor region if our benefactor doesn't splash the cash when the other regions benefactors do.

And what I meant by the equal thing was not whether we deserve the money. I meant that our own managers, players and adminstrators in Gwent seem to have fallen into the mentality that we're a 'lesser' region, self-fulfilling the media-deirven stereotype, that we are somehow lower down the pecking order than the other 3. IMO that is entirely self-deprecating and is what is keeping us down. I think the players even believe this too and that's why they are not rpeapred to stick around and don't want to sign. It is not for the WRU to go out of their way to make us believe that we are an equal region - they already do by giving us an equal share of the money (which we're entitled to). It's up to us to prove that we're worthy of having a region in Gwent by catching up with the others in terms of player development, performance, sales, marketing, the lot. It's time to stop crying that we're unfairly treated, because I don't believe that we are.

Funny how the 'Dragons' bit didn't stop him stumping up the cash for a new stand or sponsorship for the team, if he's so Newport-centric? Buying players in is not sustainable! Look at the Ospreys even they've realised it's a waste. As for sponsorship and donations, the same rule applies as for the lack of investment. Tony Brown, Hazell and Dylan Matthews are all very successful businessmen. They could easily afford to chuck a few quid the Dragons way and have all been charitable with their time and money. Do you think these business people have not approached the WRU about the other half of the region? The track record for 50% ownerships is one death and one in limbo. Who is going to throw money at something the WRU could pull the plug on at any minute? I cannot believe the matter has not been broached and given Tony Brown's fortune the only logical reason I can see for us not getting full ownership back is that the WRU do not want to sell, as they may want to change the regional franchises in the future. Hence the great irony that for all 'Newport' have been pilloried by every halfwit from here to Milford Haven for 'not embracing the region' and 'being a standalone' they've been the only ones to make any effort whatsoever to keep pro rugby in Gwent, and even more ironically the ones who've stopped us being a success are Ebbw blydi Vale by giving up their 50% to the WRU.

Put yourself in the position of an investor and tell me honestly you would chuck your money at something the board only own half of, with the other half owned by a silent partner of uncertain motive who can close the business any time they like....we need that 50% back, but the WRU don't want us to have it. Until this situation changes we will remain at the bottom of the pile. It's why I can't really support Team Wales anymore.
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Post by Guest Sat 09 Jun 2012, 1:15 pm

In that case Stone it's an impossible situation. It's impossible to get investment, sponsors don't want to know, players don't want to play here. So what's the point? Might as well shut us down and start afresh elsewhere.

And a couple of points. Doesn't Brown own Rodney Parade outright? Building the Bisley Stand increases the value of RP in the long run. It was probably built for business rather than rugby reasons. Also, Dylan Matthews is not a successful businessman. He works for his Dad and does not have millions to his name. Now, if we could persuade Terry Matthews to get involved.....!

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Post by Stone Motif Sat 09 Jun 2012, 1:44 pm

You're right, it is impossible.

Increasing the value of RP isn't much use without a top-flight team to play in it. As for Dylan Matthews, he runs the Celtic Manor for his dad and I'm sure has a few quid in his own right. The point is people of this acumen would definitely have asked for the 50% back, right? Especially if they were pursuing a 'Newport' agenda. So why did the WRU say no?
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Post by Guest Sat 09 Jun 2012, 1:48 pm

Maybe Brown is stipulating that if he purchases the remaining 50% then the Dragons have to become soley a Newport team and not a representative regional team. Perhaps the WRU don't want this and thus are not keen to sell. I'm a Newport man born and bred, but I wouldn't want a solely Newport team as I believe in the regional concept. I think it would be a step back.

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Post by Shifty Sat 09 Jun 2012, 3:47 pm

I went down the Dragons shop today to buy one of the black shirts today and all adult sizes have been sold out, which is far better than any of the other regions have managed with their stocks. In the Ospreys shop you can still buy the Black and purple ones from 2 years ago.

In fairness there was also a queue of about 4 people renewing their season tickets. What is also promising is the Dragons haven't really reduced their prices of their stock much. At the Blues and particularly the Ospreys they really slash their prices to clear things at not much higher than cost price.

Although I'm an Ospreys season ticket holder I did go and watch the Dragons at Rodney Parade last season against Russia, Leeds, Aironi, Bath, Ospreys and Prato, as well as going to support the Dragons against the Blues at the city stadium. There is no set of fans as loud or as much fun as the Dragons fans, the team was also passionate and difficult to beat at home, but towards the end of the season they went into total free fall on and off the pitch. Their fans deserved a lot better than the efforts of some of their players.
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Post by thebluesmancometh Sat 09 Jun 2012, 4:44 pm

TBH from what I see on a day to day basis the Dragons look like they're being run by someone who doesn't know that much about business, especially in the region with regards to player development.

Didn't the head of development just get a 12 month touchline ban for ref abuse?

Havn't all the development officers jumped ship?

Half of the academy staff moved on?

Things are rotten within Gwent right now, and it looks like the 6 month limit is a bit of a wish rather than a goal!!

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Post by Cardiff Dave Sat 09 Jun 2012, 10:39 pm

The most memorable game for me at the Arms Park was Cardiff v Newport a couple of years before the regional rubbish.
1000s of Newport fans made it a very special occasion. I'm afraid to say that Cardiff Blues v Newport GD hasn't even come close to creating the same buzz or demand to be there.

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