The blame game

As it has been discussed on here, it appears to be owen Farrell's fault we lost against SA at the weekend. Now Toby flood will single handily win us the next game with his attacking game(according to the all wise fans on here).

So who will we blame if we heaven forbid don't win?

We lost because we were not good enough 1-15.

We should still be able to discuss the performance of your club's wunderkind. Right now he is extremely limited as an attacking force.

He is however consistent, can tackle and he can kick goals. Is that good enough?

LT not defending him as a sarrie or England fan, just wondering why all the discussion is if flood had started/Farrell not played we would of won?

All those saying he's rubbish and can only kick or tackle seem to forget that that's all JW did in an England shirt and he was undroppable!

I'm looking at an improvement from 1-15 with Haskell possibly adding something as well as I hope JJ

I have absolutely no doubt Stephen Jones will find someone if England loses. I'm just not sure if they're South African, English, a match official or the IRB. I do however wait with baited breath.

blackcanelion wrote:I have absolutely no doubt Stephen Jones will find someone if England loses. I'm just not sure if they're South African, English, a match official or the IRB. I do however wait with baited breath.

If the forwards get the upper hand and we lose it will be the inside center, if the forwards gut a pasting it will be Botha.

You can blame the boks... for being too good for ENG if indeed they do win again on Saturday... for no other reason bar them being superior at this moment in time.

You do have to admit though... Farrell is a worse attacker than JW post his LT injuries (always though he was ok pre). He doesn't even have the exuberance of youth which most young flyhalves come into the game with.

Apparently Morne Steyn was a all running, no kicking pivot when he got to the bulls... Meyer soon brain-washed him into the Northern Transvaal way of doing things though!!!!

Knackeredknees wrote:LT not defending him as a sarrie or England fan, just wondering why all the discussion is if flood had started/Farrell not played we would of won?

Straw clutching.

All those saying he's rubbish and can only kick or tackle seem to forget that that's all JW did in an England shirt and he was undroppable!
at the same age, Wilko could pass better and was marginally better at running. Most of all he had experience and class both inside and outside him to tell him what to do.

I'm looking at an improvement from 1-15 with Haskell possibly adding something as well as I hope JJ

My worry about Haskell is that as fans how we perceive a player's abilities improves when they are not around. He has rarely been amazing for england and all too often seems to completely symbolise all that is wrong with English rugby - an athletic meathead who does not understand the game.

(ps yes I am in a abd mood )

yes but Haskell was widely acknowlaged to be one of our better players at the world cup (in a team that was playing better on field than off, the distractions was all media froth and chancers jumping on the hate England bandwagon..yes, looking at YOU Cleary!)

Re the original post.

We are not just picking out farrel. We are making reference to his lack of attacking ability. We have also pointed out morgans aparent lack of fitness, Ashtons inability to tackle, youngs kicking too much...etc.

How dare any body praise the.boks for actually playing well....

We lost last week because:

1. Farrell was FH
2. Farrell was on the pitch
3. Morgan has the fitness of an 80year old
4. Our SR isn't either physical enough nor technically good enough
5. SL's gameplan of a bit of bish-bosh followed by poor kicking followed by no chase was bemusing (or was that amusing)
6. We had a bench with the impact of a powder-puff
7. We don't appear to have a 2nd winger (a specialist position where speed, finishing and defence is vital)

Oh yeah and
8. SA were a bit betterer than us

So if Farrell is dropped we still have 3-8 to fall back on (plus altitude and maybe dodgy food)

PS Flood will improve the side, but maybe not quite enough

Barney McGrew did it

To be honest I doubt the boks will poison ENG's food.. they will only do that if there is a genuine risk of losing.

It was written in the stars that England would win unless they picked Farrell so they have only themselves to blame. After all, Flood has always been Mr Consistent in an England shirt and gave a far better account of himself in the 6N.

I think Flood gets bad rep for no particular reason. ENG played their best rugby since 2003 with Flood as pivot in late 2010 - the 2011 6N.

When Jonno dropped him for JW at the world cup the team started to implode... their backline was particularly less dangerous.

Farell is not rubbish but expecting him to come in to international rugby at the start of the season and be a world beater and be able to control and win international games against South Africa, in South Africa is a bit bloody stupid.

The kid needs to learn, dear god he is only 20! He should be in the U20 world cup! not leading the English back line against one of the worlds best teams.

LondonTiger wrote:We lost because we were not good enough 1-15.

We should still be able to discuss the performance of your club's wunderkind. Right now he is extremely limited as an attacking force.

He (Farrell) is however consistent, can tackle and he can kick goals. Is that good enough?

It seems to be enough for the Boks with Morne Steyn.

doctor_grey wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:We lost because we were not good enough 1-15.

We should still be able to discuss the performance of your club's wunderkind. Right now he is extremely limited as an attacking force.

He (Farrell) is however consistent, can tackle and he can kick goals. Is that good enough?

It seems to be enough for the Boks with Morne Steyn.

Swap Farrell for Steyn and SA may have actually won by more - due to goal kicking.

Yeah, possibly. Morne had a bad day with the boot, especially by his standards.

I think its a fine line with a young out half like Farrell:
On one hand he can't improve unless he plays against the best teams. And its the only way we can see his mettle.
On the other hand if the Boks are a bridge too far at this stage and we need more attack (which I believe), then we need another oprion. And Flood ain't just a bowl of Curry.

If it were my decision, I would put Flood out there to get the backs moving. Which leads to the second question of which backs need to be out there for Flood to move.

Not that I care......

But what about Care, Flood, Farrell, Tuilagi 9-13 line

Just saying

Flood brings the game that will be too smart for 1 dimension Springboks.

But it should be good kick to the bum for Springboks and maybe might finally make a change the game from route one and kick and chase.

LondonTiger wrote:My worry about Haskell is that as fans how we perceive a player's abilities improves when they are not around.

cough... Toby Flood... cough... cough