You'll Never Get This! You'll Never Get This! But One Day, They Did Get It

Top 5 backfoot fighters who lost or will lose their ability to shuck and move and got/get clobbered as a result.

1. Roy Jones. Man he used to mock and move, then bam! Lights out RJJ. Time and time again.
2. Naseem Hamed. He was the ultimate WUM in the ring, a true special talent too, but when he started to move up in class, he got caught, he got caught and retired before a daft looking KO.
3. Ali. He was one of the originals, right? Man he could dance, taunt and entice an opponent. Ended up suffering for it when his skills diminished but a great fighter. One of the true greats.
4. Lucien Bute. Got thumped senseless, and everyone raved about his foot movement.
5. Andre Dirrell. Purely for the modern day aspect. Ab's clocked him before the illegal punch, and i believe due to not wanting it enough, we will one day soon see him pancaked. If he comes back, that is.

Thoughts?

Dirrell was clobbered by an illegal punch in a fight he was winning comfortably. I have no problem with him staying down and getting the win if that's what he did but I think he was genuinely hurt it was Abrahams fault for being a clown.

As for Hamed when did he get found out moving up in class it's became a fashionable statement to make its just a pity its utter pish.

Dirrell was hurt before the illegal wanger.

Thoughts? I think you're a nutter. But funny and interesting. Dirrell will bounce back and shock everyone. He has talent but needs to sit on his punches a little more.

Hamed never got 'found out', Davide.

He went in against a fantastic fighter, and despite being some way off his best, and Barrera fighting the perfect fight tactically, it still wasn't that wide of a loss. Certainly not a shut-out.

He wasn't hurt badly he was boxing rings round Abraham who then cheated. The guys a classy boxer I thought he beat Froch and I have Froch in my P4P top 10 so he is no mug.

Fists, never said he got found out but good point. azania thanking you! Andre has no metal Sugar, fact. Can't make it.

davidemore wrote:Fists, never said he got found out but good point. azania thanking you! Andre has no metal Sugar, fact. Can't make it.

This was said about Wartd by a lot of people before he beat froch but its garbage. If he had no bottle he wouldn't have got involved in the super 6 with guys like Froch, Kessler and Abraham.

Andre D got involved and then bucked. He didn't exactly offer much against Froch, and in the later rounds started back peddling against Ab's. But respect to him for entering, he is talented. I give him that. And no boxer is weak mentally, none. But it's that hurt factor, does he want to dust someone? Boxers sense weakness in that area.

1. Roy Jones - this guy looked great but what you have to realise is that he was fighting nobodies and avoiding the real competition out there. When he eventually did start fighting guys like Calzaghe he was well beaten. He never fought any of Benn, Eubank or Collins despite them being world champions and calling him out.

2. Hamed - one of the great disappointments in terms of retiring so young. I think he was a classic case of falling out of love with the sport but biy was he talented! He took Barrera lightly in his fight and would have beaten him in a rematch but it was such a loss to the sport that he ended up retiring.


3. Ali - Are you kidding me?? The man was a legend and beat George Foreman and Joe Frazier even after he had been banned for years! He invented the rope-a-dope and upset the odds!

4. Lucien Bute - not a world class fighter. Overhyped massively by Sky to make Froch look better than he is. Clever by the promoter involved but this has been going on for years. Roy Jones above being an example of this kind of thing.

5. Andre Dirrell - dont know anything about this guy so cant say!

Roy Jones - this guy looked great but what you have to realise is that he was fighting nobodies and avoiding the real competition out there. When he eventually did start fighting guys like Calzaghe he was well beaten. He never fought any of Benn, Eubank or Collins despite them being world champions and calling him out.

Why not re-write history whilst you're at it?

Good points Gordy!

azania wrote:

Roy Jones - this guy looked great but what you have to realise is that he was fighting nobodies and avoiding the real competition out there. When he eventually did start fighting guys like Calzaghe he was well beaten. He never fought any of Benn, Eubank or Collins despite them being world champions and calling him out.

Why not re-write history whilst you're at it?

Re-write history? I dont think so....

Roy Jones never fought the top guys around. Im sure if you check his record you will not see Eubank, Benn or Collins who all managed to fight each other twice! Calzaghe of course was another but he handed him a fine beating when Jones did decide to fight him. People get suckered in promoters hype and Jones was fed easy fights when the other top guys were fighting amongst themselves.

Jones was a great fighter who refused to fight other great fighters until money became an issue. Bar B-Hop that is. He fought and beat a prime B-Hop. Slightly less than prime but a bloody good B-Hop.

Gordy wrote:

azania wrote:

Roy Jones - this guy looked great but what you have to realise is that he was fighting nobodies and avoiding the real competition out there. When he eventually did start fighting guys like Calzaghe he was well beaten. He never fought any of Benn, Eubank or Collins despite them being world champions and calling him out.

Why not re-write history whilst you're at it?

Re-write history? I dont think so....

Roy Jones never fought the top guys around. Im sure if you check his record you will not see Eubank, Benn or Collins who all managed to fight each other twice! Calzaghe of course was another but he handed him a fine beating when Jones did decide to fight him. People get suckered in promoters hype and Jones was fed easy fights when the other top guys were fighting amongst themselves.

I think you will find that none of them wanted anything to do with RJJ. Eubanks in his autobiography said as much. Benn acknowledged that RJJ was #1 in the post fight interview with Gman. Collins was a nobody who was a decent operator and nothing more. When RJJ fought JC, he was ancient and a poor shadow of the great man.

But anyway, carry on re-writing history. I'm sure there are others here with encyclopedic knowledge of the reasons why the Brit 3 ran from RJJ.

davidemore wrote:Jones was a great fighter who refused to fight other great fighters until money became an issue. Bar B-Hop that is. He fought and beat a prime B-Hop. Slightly less than prime but a bloody good B-Hop.

Add a prime Toney also.

Gordy wrote:
Re-write history? I dont think so....

Roy Jones never fought the top guys around. Im sure if you check his record you will not see Eubank, Benn or Collins who all managed to fight each other twice! Calzaghe of course was another but he handed him a fine beating when Jones did decide to fight him. People get suckered in promoters hype and Jones was fed easy fights when the other top guys were fighting amongst themselves.

Quality trolling. That Jones aye - feeding on stiffs like an undefeated James Toney, a prime Bernard Hopkins, a heavyweight title holder ....

He must have been literally terrified of the likes of Eubank and Calzaghe.

Azania good point.

azania wrote:

Gordy wrote:

azania wrote:

Roy Jones - this guy looked great but what you have to realise is that he was fighting nobodies and avoiding the real competition out there. When he eventually did start fighting guys like Calzaghe he was well beaten. He never fought any of Benn, Eubank or Collins despite them being world champions and calling him out.

Why not re-write history whilst you're at it?

Re-write history? I dont think so....

Roy Jones never fought the top guys around. Im sure if you check his record you will not see Eubank, Benn or Collins who all managed to fight each other twice! Calzaghe of course was another but he handed him a fine beating when Jones did decide to fight him. People get suckered in promoters hype and Jones was fed easy fights when the other top guys were fighting amongst themselves.

I think you will find that none of them wanted anything to do with RJJ. Eubanks in his autobiography said as much. Benn acknowledged that RJJ was #1 in the post fight interview with Gman. Collins was a nobody who was a decent operator and nothing more. When RJJ fought JC, he was ancient and a poor shadow of the great man.

But anyway, carry on re-writing history. I'm sure there are others here with encyclopedic knowledge of the reasons why the Brit 3 ran from RJJ.

Not a chance! Not a chance!

This couldnt have been put better than Roy Jones manager himself! Why even Chris Eubank near the end of his career put on a far better showing against Calzaghe than Jones did!

Eubank is on record lamenting the fight with Jones did not happen because Jones never looked for it and Collins said he would have fought Jones in a phonebox! After Benn had destroyed the top Americans they all wanted nothing to do with him!

Jones and his manager knew these guys would beat him and wisely kept him fighting lesser opposition. Its just a pity that so many have been fooled by their trickery!

Hamed simply fell out of love with the sport. He made a loada money had a family and just seemed to fall out of love with the sport.

Even before barrera in the documentary that there was(cant remember name)he seemed bored by the sport and didnt seem to want to know

Gordy wrote:

azania wrote:

Gordy wrote:

azania wrote:

Roy Jones - this guy looked great but what you have to realise is that he was fighting nobodies and avoiding the real competition out there. When he eventually did start fighting guys like Calzaghe he was well beaten. He never fought any of Benn, Eubank or Collins despite them being world champions and calling him out.

Why not re-write history whilst you're at it?

Re-write history? I dont think so....

Roy Jones never fought the top guys around. Im sure if you check his record you will not see Eubank, Benn or Collins who all managed to fight each other twice! Calzaghe of course was another but he handed him a fine beating when Jones did decide to fight him. People get suckered in promoters hype and Jones was fed easy fights when the other top guys were fighting amongst themselves.

I think you will find that none of them wanted anything to do with RJJ. Eubanks in his autobiography said as much. Benn acknowledged that RJJ was #1 in the post fight interview with Gman. Collins was a nobody who was a decent operator and nothing more. When RJJ fought JC, he was ancient and a poor shadow of the great man.

But anyway, carry on re-writing history. I'm sure there are others here with encyclopedic knowledge of the reasons why the Brit 3 ran from RJJ.

Not a chance! Not a chance!

This couldnt have been put better than Roy Jones manager himself! Why even Chris Eubank near the end of his career put on a far better showing against Calzaghe than Jones did!

Eubank is on record lamenting the fight with Jones did not happen because Jones never looked for it and Collins said he would have fought Jones in a phonebox! After Benn had destroyed the top Americans they all wanted nothing to do with him!

Jones and his manager knew these guys would beat him and wisely kept him fighting lesser opposition. Its just a pity that so many have been fooled by their trickery!

So a prime Toney and B-Hop are lesser opposition than Benn, Eubank and the very average Collins? You said you know nothing about Andre Dirrell but you my friend know nothing about boxing.

Heating up!

paul12342 wrote:Hamed simply fell out of love with the sport. He made a loada money had a family and just seemed to fall out of love with the sport.

Even before barrera in the documentary that there was(cant remember name)he seemed bored by the sport and didnt seem to want to know

Very true. I do not a believe a fully focused Hamed would have los that fight. Its dangerous when you lose focus and motivation. Look what happened to Lewis against Rahman! Its just such a great pity Hamed did not refocus himself and put that loss right the way Lewis did. A real loss of talent to the boxing world!

Gordy wrote:

azania wrote:

Gordy wrote:

azania wrote:

Roy Jones - this guy looked great but what you have to realise is that he was fighting nobodies and avoiding the real competition out there. When he eventually did start fighting guys like Calzaghe he was well beaten. He never fought any of Benn, Eubank or Collins despite them being world champions and calling him out.

Why not re-write history whilst you're at it?

Re-write history? I dont think so....

Roy Jones never fought the top guys around. Im sure if you check his record you will not see Eubank, Benn or Collins who all managed to fight each other twice! Calzaghe of course was another but he handed him a fine beating when Jones did decide to fight him. People get suckered in promoters hype and Jones was fed easy fights when the other top guys were fighting amongst themselves.

I think you will find that none of them wanted anything to do with RJJ. Eubanks in his autobiography said as much. Benn acknowledged that RJJ was #1 in the post fight interview with Gman. Collins was a nobody who was a decent operator and nothing more. When RJJ fought JC, he was ancient and a poor shadow of the great man.

But anyway, carry on re-writing history. I'm sure there are others here with encyclopedic knowledge of the reasons why the Brit 3 ran from RJJ.

Not a chance! Not a chance!

This couldnt have been put better than Roy Jones manager himself! Why even Chris Eubank near the end of his career put on a far better showing against Calzaghe than Jones did!
Eubank is on record lamenting the fight with Jones did not happen because Jones never looked for it and Collins said he would have fought Jones in a phonebox! After Benn had destroyed the top Americans they all wanted nothing to do with him!

Jones and his manager knew these guys would beat him and wisely kept him fighting lesser opposition. Its just a pity that so many have been fooled by their trickery!

That really is a stupid comparison. I mean incredibly stupid. RJJ wasn't at the end of his career when he fought JC. He was beyond that.

Of course Benn would say that. Interestingly he said that RJJ was #1. Eubank put in black and white in his autobiography that he wanted no part of RJJ. Of course he would have fought him as the money would be great.

But RJJ bucked them and went after lesser opponents like Toney and moved on to fight for the HW title. Yeah, he ducked Benn et al. He also beat McCallum who beat Collins. Ooops, he ducked Collins also.

I know, you don't like RJJ, but if you are going to criticise another boxer, base it on facts and not made up BS and conjecture wrapped up in wishful thinking.

davidemore wrote:Heating up!

It always takes one WUM to do that.

U

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

Gordy wrote:

azania wrote:

Gordy wrote:

azania wrote:

Roy Jones - this guy looked great but what you have to realise is that he was fighting nobodies and avoiding the real competition out there. When he eventually did start fighting guys like Calzaghe he was well beaten. He never fought any of Benn, Eubank or Collins despite them being world champions and calling him out.

Why not re-write history whilst you're at it?

Re-write history? I dont think so....

Roy Jones never fought the top guys around. Im sure if you check his record you will not see Eubank, Benn or Collins who all managed to fight each other twice! Calzaghe of course was another but he handed him a fine beating when Jones did decide to fight him. People get suckered in promoters hype and Jones was fed easy fights when the other top guys were fighting amongst themselves.

I think you will find that none of them wanted anything to do with RJJ. Eubanks in his autobiography said as much. Benn acknowledged that RJJ was #1 in the post fight interview with Gman. Collins was a nobody who was a decent operator and nothing more. When RJJ fought JC, he was ancient and a poor shadow of the great man.

But anyway, carry on re-writing history. I'm sure there are others here with encyclopedic knowledge of the reasons why the Brit 3 ran from RJJ.

Not a chance! Not a chance!

This couldnt have been put better than Roy Jones manager himself! Why even Chris Eubank near the end of his career put on a far better showing against Calzaghe than Jones did!

Eubank is on record lamenting the fight with Jones did not happen because Jones never looked for it and Collins said he would have fought Jones in a phonebox! After Benn had destroyed the top Americans they all wanted nothing to do with him!

Jones and his manager knew these guys would beat him and wisely kept him fighting lesser opposition. Its just a pity that so many have been fool

ed by their trickery!

So a prime Toney and B-Hop are lesser opposition than Benn, Eubank and the very average Collins? You said you know nothing about Andre Dirrell but you my friend know nothing about boxing.

And he says Price is hyped by Sky

There was no one who was more hyped on Sky then Eubank!

Gordy wrote:

azania wrote:

Roy Jones - this guy looked great but what you have to realise is that he was fighting nobodies and avoiding the real competition out there. When he eventually did start fighting guys like Calzaghe he was well beaten. He never fought any of Benn, Eubank or Collins despite them being world champions and calling him out.

Why not re-write history whilst you're at it?

Re-write history? I dont think so....

Roy Jones never fought the top guys around. Im sure if you check his record you will not see Eubank, Benn or Collins who all managed to fight each other twice! Calzaghe of course was another but he handed him a fine beating when Jones did decide to fight him. People get suckered in promoters hype and Jones was fed easy fights when the other top guys were fighting amongst themselves.

Dariusz M was probably the only guy he should've cleaned up in his prime and didn't.

Roy Jones Jr ducking in the mid 90's?

Sorry, did I read that right?

Once more, Gordy, I implore you to take a look at this quote of Eubank's, taken from his own autobiography and nicely supplied by Rowley.

"The rule is that if you are champion of the world for one body you cannot be the number one contender for another belt. Unless someone was officially the recognised No 1 contender, I had no professional obligation to face them. With Roy Jones he was fortunately never no1 contender. Had he been, I would not have dodged. I would have taken the fight. Would I have won the fight? Highly unlikely."

Yep, sounds as if Eubank just couldn't wait to fight Jones.

I guess Jones scoring wins over the likes of Reggie Johnson and Mike McCallum, two men who scored wins over some of the Brits / Europeans you so routinely accuse him of ducking, as well as Hopkins, Toney and Hill, who were all simply better than them, means nothing to you?

Despite the likes of Benn and Eubank both being men of whom Britain can be eternally proud, I'm actually finding myself wishing that Jones had come over to Britain and done a number on them (and make no mistake, that's exactly what would have happened), just so we wouldn't have to put up with you poluting the board with your ridiculous brand of wummery.

88Chris05 wrote:Once more, Gordy, I implore you to take a look at this quote of Eubank's, taken from his own autobiography and nicely supplied by Rowley.

"The rule is that if you are champion of the world for one body you cannot be the number one contender for another belt. Unless someone was officially the recognised No 1 contender, I had no professional obligation to face them. With Roy Jones he was fortunately never no1 contender. Had he been, I would not have dodged. I would have taken the fight. Would I have won the fight? Highly unlikely."

Yep, sounds as if Eubank just couldn't wait to fight Jones.

I guess Jones scoring wins over the likes of Reggie Johnson and Mike McCallum, two men who scored wins over some of the Brits / Europeans you so routinely accuse him of ducking, as well as Hopkins, Toney and Hill, who were all simply better than them, means nothing to you?

Despite the likes of Benn and Eubank both being men of whom Britain can be eternally proud, I'm actually finding myself wishing that Jones had come over to Britain and done a number on them (and make no mistake, that's exactly what would have happened), just so we wouldn't have to put up with you poluting the board with your ridiculous brand of wummery.

Does the term "wummery" now exists in the OED?

Azania didnt Eubank say something like had he of thought Jones it would of taken five years off his life aswell?

By the way Eubanks autobiograthy is one of the best boxing books around. He goes in to a lot of detail about his fights unlike a lot of Boxers autobiographys

paul12342 wrote:Azania didnt Eubank say something like had he of thought Jones it would of taken five years off his life aswell?

No idea. But I have seen an interview where he stated that he kept away from RJJ.

Both have said as much of each other I think - RJJ said if we fought - I might win or I might lose but neither of us gonna be the same again.

Azania just looked it up.......page 325

"Lets use Roy Jones as an Example.When people asked me why i wouldnt fight him. I would say to them, 'Never mind the title or my job, a fight like that can take five or six years off my life.'

Copyright Eubank

paul12342 wrote:Azania just looked it up.......page 325

"Lets use Roy Jones as an Example.When people asked me why i wouldnt fight him. I would say to them, 'Never mind the title or my job, a fight like that can take five or six years off my life.'

Copyright Eubank

Who cares what Eubank says when we have Gordy saying RJJ ducked him. What does Eubank know?

Im just the seeker of truth a and justice