The 10's Wrestling's worst era.....?

I've been watching WWF/WWE for many, many, many years, and I honestly cannot remember it being this bad. Between:

-stupid storylines
-the titles being almost meaningless (even the WWE title feud between Daniel Bryan/Punk/Kane is more about AJ than the title)
-lots of guys out due to injuries and suspensions
-Shallow talent roster (which will be even more exposed when RAW goes 3 hours weekly)
-Promoting the Be A Star campaign when they bully people in their stories
-Twitter references nobody cares about
-A horrible "GM" for both shows who routinely screws his lines up
-A heel lead announcer & a past it color commentator who can't sell the product
-Complete refusal to develop new main event stars. John Cena & Big Show were main eventing PPV's together in 2006
-Failure to complete storylines - Raw mystery GM

Has it ever been this bad I'm struggling to think of an era where the all round product has been so poor

I turned off between about 2002 and 2009 so no. The noughties was the worst time. Every time I tried to get back into it, it was so boring.
I don't want to turn it off now.
I think its pretty good right now if I'm honest.

Also, I don't know why everyone always goes on about the mystery Raw GM?
IT WAS A MYSTERY!
Draw your own conclusions. You don't have to have your hand held through everything.
I like that it stayed a mystery.

Electric Demon wrote:I turned off between about 2002 and 2009 so no. The noughties was the worst time. Every time I tried to get back into it, it was so boring.
I don't want to turn it off now.
I think its pretty good right now if I'm honest.

Also, I don't know why everyone always goes on about the mystery Raw GM?
IT WAS A MYSTERY!
Draw your own conclusions. You don't have to have your hand held through everything.
I like that it stayed a mystery.

It was never explained!!! Why have a storyline if theres no pay off? WWE do it so much these days how can you expect a fan to invest in the product if there's no continuity in plot lines? I can't get submerged in something if it's just gonna be disguarded a few weeks that. I've heard John Cena will be fired if he doesn't beat the Big Show on Sunday???? Is that meant to intrigue me? We've had this stip about 3 times in the last 18 months & the most he's been off tv is 1 Raw!!! You ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? He has more credibility than WWE story telling.
It's like going to the shop buying a box of chocolates getting home to eat them & find there's nothing in the box I think you'd be a little aggrieved.

It was a mystery though.
It was anonymous.
When a poem is written by Anon. they don't eventually reveal it.

Here's a question. And its not meant rudely or nowt, though it sounds it a bit.

Why do you still watch it?

When I didn't like it, I turned it off.

ED..............WOW is all I can say, how long have you had those WWE rose tinted glasses for. Brady you are pretty much spot on with your analysing, imo its been pretty dire for the last few years with the exception of that red hot angle with Punk last year which they did their best to blow with Nash and Co.

How can you accuse me of WWE tinted glasses when I admit ON THIS THREAD that I disliked WWE so much that I stopped watching it for 6 or 7 years?

I mean in regards to the product today, it is of couse a matter opinion but come on, most of the product today is undefendable (Is that even a word). The whole structure of the shows are all over the shop. They create these rules but never stick by any, are all the stars on both shows for good now or until they feel like it. 2 world titles is ridiculous in its current format especially as neither is the main focus, It took a 3 hour special show to get any degree of build up to the WWE title match, that is crazy imo.

Electric Demon wrote:It was a mystery though.
It was anonymous.
When a poem is written by Anon. they don't eventually reveal it.

Here's a question. And its not meant rudely or nowt, though it sounds it a bit.

Why do you still watch it?

When I didn't like it, I turned it off.

If you don't get my previous explanation then you'll never understand.

I have turned off a couple of times before. Last time being at the start of the year. Lesnar's return got me interested again - Bit it's a good question why do I come back when the products do poor? I guess when something's been apart of your life for so long & you love it you sometimes just have to ride through the bad times... I wouldn't just stop watching Man Utd if they started to slide down the table, theyre my team

It is a transitional period right now, the signs have been encouraging recently with them slowly building towards a Ziggler face turn, they were obviously hoping to build him up before becoming a main event guy but that went out the window when ADR injured himself. Big Show for as much as I dislike the guy has really done well recently, how many of us were writing of Mark Henry when he got pushed again last year? It turned out to be a great move.

Look how many new guys have been coming up recently, rhodes and Ziggler are becoming more prominant, Ambrose is on the dark shows, Ryback is being built up, Castagnoli and Damien Sandhow have made it to the roster and the tag teams are finally showing signs of becoming more of a feature and they had big plans for Barrett before his injusry, they are obviously looking to create new stars.

We have had blood and a slightly edgier product showing signs of them coming out of the PG era. It is all well and good to point out the faults but it is hard to come up with something fresh considering how long the industry has been in the mainstream. Is the writing always great? No. But to say this is the worst era is not a fair statement as they are obviously looking to build up brand new guys. The WWE got lazy and now they are starting to sort out their act and should be encouraged for it. CM Punk and Bryan have made it to a higher standing than they have ever been, finally they are giving smaller guys the chance to prove themselves.

They are obviously going to be hit and miss for awhile, just look how many attempts it took for Austin to reach the top, look at Rocky Maivia, HHH etc. you will always fall when learning to ride a bike and this is to be expected in WWE as they try different gimmicks and ideas. We just have to be patient with them and the roster as eventually things will start sticking and before you know it they will have a new breed of talent at a main event level meaning that they will have new people to write for and the scene becoming fresh, new and exciting again.

For me anyway this is the best the WWE has been for a long while, just think back to two years ago!

While a lot of the points you made do have some validity, I would argue the talent pool is looking a lot healthier than it has in a number of years, with the exception of Cena and to a lesser extent Orton, the old guard has been transitioned and I quite like a number of the talents all across the card.

Like Bret says so many things go unexplained as a viewer I feel like I'm treated like a second class citizen who doesn't deserve an explanation.... What's happened to the draft this year? Is there even a brand split anymore? Did I miss where this got explained? Could you imagine if they just dropped the Rumble next year & just renamed the Jan pay per view 'Mystery'.... Work it out for yourselves it a mystery after all!!

Dr Gregory House MD wrote:While a lot of the points you made do have some validity, I would argue the talent pool is looking a lot healthier than it has in a number of years, with the exception of Cena and to a lesser extent Orton, the old guard has been transitioned and I quite like a number of the talents all across the card.

Fair play your more optimistic about the current product I respect that but when would you same during your time of watching has wrestling been at its lowest point in terms of overall quality of product?

Dr Gregory House MD wrote:While a lot of the points you made do have some validity, I would argue the talent pool is looking a lot healthier than it has in a number of years, with the exception of Cena and to a lesser extent Orton, the old guard has been transitioned and I quite like a number of the talents all across the card.

I agree the roster and the young talent on there as a whole is on a par with 10 years ago when you had the likes of Austin, Angle, Brock, Rock etc and they just need to get back to basicsand channel it properly. I really think Vince has lost it and is out of touch with what people want now either that or he is real stubbon.

That's not the same at all
They always said it was anonymous. From the outset.
Not mystery... "Anonymous"
And that's how it stayed. And still people talk about it.
That's genius.
There's a hundred "concluded" stories that nobody will ever talk about again.

Good post Stonee.

Brady12 wrote:

Dr Gregory House MD wrote:While a lot of the points you made do have some validity, I would argue the talent pool is looking a lot healthier than it has in a number of years, with the exception of Cena and to a lesser extent Orton, the old guard has been transitioned and I quite like a number of the talents all across the card.

Fair play your more optimistic about the current product I respect that but when would you same during your time of watching has wrestling been at its lowest point in terms of overall quality of product?

I'd say the latter half of the 00's was by far and away the weakest period, in WWE the talent became totally stagnent, there was no movement up and down the card after Edge became main event in 2005 I don't think WWE created another real main eventer until Jeff Hardy in 2009, thats 4 years with the same main event scene, I remeber Cena and Orton facing off at something like 6 PPV's in a row, Cena and/or Orton and/or HHH faced each other more times than I could be bothered to count, were it not for Edge's tour de force on Smackdown and Punk's heel turn I don't think theres anything I'd fondly remeber, tag team wrestling became a non-entity after Londrick broke up, in wider news TNA was a shambles and ROH was suffering from an identity crisis under Adam Pearce.

Nowdays the WWE roster has a fresh look (Bryan vs Punk who'd a thunk it?) and there's a lot of promise in the mid-card/developmental, TNA seems to e showing signs of life and has put together back to back hight quality PPV's for the first time in years and ROH seems to have got into a groove under the Delerious/Cornette booking team.

Anyways while it's not perfect I definatly think the start of this decade is showing a lot more promise than the end of the last.

Blooming heck theres no please some people, when they are writing 2 shows a week thats 104 episodes of raw and smackdown a year and a ppv each month to boot thats near on 500 hours of tv time they have to fill

Show me any other form of "entertainment" where they constantly bring in the crowds and viewers,

Other sports get an off season, most tv shows run for 10 episodes a year

GIve credit where credits due, yes the booking and be frustrating but at other times completley brilliant, as stated above wwe know they need new stars but IMO they dont have enough credible stars at the moment who could take a loss against an up and comer for it not to damage their star

We are forgetting the Rock only started on his run to the top thanks to taker saying rocky would pin him 1-2-3 clean no screwy finish which alot of top stars would do to protect their ego

The WWE need HHH, Cena, Taker as well as Kane and Show to start doing the same for the younger talent for them to believable as top level stars

IMagine what a 3 month program with taker heading into mania would do for someone like Barrett or even punk it would porject Barrett to main event status and would legitimise punk as a star player. who in turn is clever enough to do the same for other upper mid carders ready to make the jump

But on the flip side alot of the attitude era stars like the rock and austin had alot of creative control over their characters which helped them believe in what they were doing, the only ones i see with this at the minute are Cody Rhodes, CM Punk and Zack Ryder, its guys like this with a genuine passion for the business and real ability in the ring that need a push, rhodes and punk could put on show stealing matches at any ppv and there is no reason why ryder cant be a genuine upper mid carder he has the ability he just needs the storylines to do it, a program with Kane after No way out would do it as long as ryder went over

Blooming heck theres no please some people, when they are writing 2 shows a week thats 104 episodes of raw and smackdown a year and a ppv each month to boot thats near on 500 hours of tv time they have to fill

Correct.... Put the product is lacking in quality do what do they do? Increase the show to 3 hours!!! The could be the death nail of WWE

I stopped watching in 2002 and came back for my third stint as a wrestling fan after WM last year. Watching WWE was hard work for a little then. I can't remember what PPV it was but I'm not sure I'll ever watch a worse main event than Miz (with A Ry) and Cena in an I Quit match. Things have improved markedly since then.

I actually quite like a lot of what's going on right now. My problem with Cena and Show isnt the feud, it's the placing on the bill, but I can still enjoy Punk and Bryan's masterpieces if they're second to it. I've even started to like Smackdown. I never came back to wrestling because mg hatred of the brand extension, and I still think a main title belt for each show is mad, but I don't need every little detail explained to me, I just enjoy the product.

They are working on a lot of good things at the moment, the tag divisions are returning, new monsters, new heels, new faces (figuratively and literally) and to me this all stinks of impatience. If WWE aren't thinking long term they get slated for rushing storylines. When they do they get slated by people who want it all now.

For me there are many reasons why the WWE is in a 'coma'

- The use of social networks and YouTube. Twitter has allowed superstars to post insignificant quotes. YouTube for me is an opportunity lost. For example when you had Orton years ago 'attacking' families and I think had they had used YouTube as a means to air it I think it would've given him an edge and also created a little 'authenticy'

- Brands. For me this idea has now gone full circle. I think they need to split them into shows. I think years ago when they had Heat/Velocity as 'sub' shows served purpose to have new talent come through and how they operate in front of a live audience.

- Wasted title reigns. ADR/Swagger for starters. Thrusted on to the Main Event picture and while Swagger has fallen backwards, they seem to really want to push ADR and the guy is not cut for that stage just yet. If he had an Intercontinental or US Title reign, it would've answered more questions to his ability to hold his own in a feud and to be over with the fans.

- Out with the new and in with the old. 2 Jericho returns. Re-formation of DX. Re-packaged Undertaker. Austin and Rock being brought back for little moments of glory. I remember a time in 2005 when we we had Kennedy, Lashley, MVP all for me who looked like future stars. I don't blame the WWE because some of the talent did not help themselves. Lashley with ideas above his station, Kennedy getting injured and botching, Jeff Hardy being un-reliable. I feel Chavo Guerrero and Matt Hardy for example were solid mid-carders and for me deserved to be in more stellar feuds around the mid-card. Angle, Jericho and Christian left in a 10 month period which left a massive hole to be filled. RVD left. In some cases the WWE had no choice, but in others I felt they could've done more. Now because of the lack of star quality it puts more pressure on the younger talent and gives them a shorter time frame in order to prove themselves.

- Lack of competition. In the good old days we have RAW v Nitro. If only I had Sky+ back then!!! TNA structurely is sound for me. Flagship show and also solid divisions. The Tag-Team division is quality. If TNA didn't have such crap storywriters they would have a superb product. It is a case of good thing falling into the wrong hands. It was always going to be difficult for any wrestling organisation to rise up from the ashes that was WCW. I feel 10 years on and TNA seem just as far away now than they were when they first started. The WWE is not just fighting to gain new audience, but are fighting to hold onto the loyal audience who have grown up with them.

- Wellness policy/Injuries/Banned Moves. Now the Wellness Policy had to happen. It is frustrating yes that superstars are constantly failing and some a regular offenders than others. I do try and draw comparisons with product 25 years ago to now and the schedules. Wrestlers nowadays just wrestle everyday and for me there is only so much that the human body can with stand. I remember years and years ago I wanted to be a WWE superstar and with the birth of the internet and hearing backstage stories I thought 'Crap I could not give so much time' like they do. Injuries are going to occur more because I don't think they have enough time to rest and recouperate. Botched moves are more likely to occur because they are flat out exhausted. I saw that Cena documentary thingy with The Rock and I could not believe that man's schedule. It is beyond stupid. This is something that needs to be addressed.

I caught the back end of the attitude era but my prominent wrestling days were 2002-2007. I loved the Brock Lesnar days and for me Smackdown was far better during that time, with the exception of the evolution angle on Raw, the much better show. It had a great pool of talent, such as Chavo Gurrero and Billy Kidman, it was a great time to watch wrestling, the story lines were great, there was personalities to the wrestler's, everyone were unique.

I stopped watching for a few reasons. Firstly, I think maybe because I got older I started to think should I really be watching it? and the other reason being it had got pretty crap. Cena winning everything, rubbish story lines, all a bit rubbish wasn't it. I then began watching again about 2 years ago and it has improved a little. Its getting there as others have said, the pool of talent is getting better and with Rhodes, Barrett and Ziggler, there are some great superstars coming through.

You know who I blame for the lack of new stars? Brock Lesnar.

legendkillarV2 wrote:For me there are many reasons why the WWE is in a 'coma'

- The use of social networks and YouTube. Twitter has allowed superstars to post insignificant quotes. YouTube for me is an opportunity lost. For example when you had Orton years ago 'attacking' families and I think had they had used YouTube as a means to air it I think it would've given him an edge and also created a little 'authenticy'

- Brands. For me this idea has now gone full circle. I think they need to split them into shows. I think years ago when they had Heat/Velocity as 'sub' shows served purpose to have new talent come through and how they operate in front of a live audience.

- Wasted title reigns. ADR/Swagger for starters. Thrusted on to the Main Event picture and while Swagger has fallen backwards, they seem to really want to push ADR and the guy is not cut for that stage just yet. If he had an Intercontinental or US Title reign, it would've answered more questions to his ability to hold his own in a feud and to be over with the fans.

- Out with the new and in with the old. 2 Jericho returns. Re-formation of DX. Re-packaged Undertaker. Austin and Rock being brought back for little moments of glory. I remember a time in 2005 when we we had Kennedy, Lashley, MVP all for me who looked like future stars. I don't blame the WWE because some of the talent did not help themselves. Lashley with ideas above his station, Kennedy getting injured and botching, Jeff Hardy being un-reliable. I feel Chavo Guerrero and Matt Hardy for example were solid mid-carders and for me deserved to be in more stellar feuds around the mid-card. Angle, Jericho and Christian left in a 10 month period which left a massive hole to be filled. RVD left. In some cases the WWE had no choice, but in others I felt they could've done more. Now because of the lack of star quality it puts more pressure on the younger talent and gives them a shorter time frame in order to prove themselves.

- Lack of competition. In the good old days we have RAW v Nitro. If only I had Sky+ back then!!! TNA structurely is sound for me. Flagship show and also solid divisions. The Tag-Team division is quality. If TNA didn't have such crap storywriters they would have a superb product. It is a case of good thing falling into the wrong hands. It was always going to be difficult for any wrestling organisation to rise up from the ashes that was WCW. I feel 10 years on and TNA seem just as far away now than they were when they first started. The WWE is not just fighting to gain new audience, but are fighting to hold onto the loyal audience who have grown up with them.

- Wellness policy/Injuries/Banned Moves. Now the Wellness Policy had to happen. It is frustrating yes that superstars are constantly failing and some a regular offenders than others. I do try and draw comparisons with product 25 years ago to now and the schedules. Wrestlers nowadays just wrestle everyday and for me there is only so much that the human body can with stand. I remember years and years ago I wanted to be a WWE superstar and with the birth of the internet and hearing backstage stories I thought 'Crap I could not give so much time' like they do. Injuries are going to occur more because I don't think they have enough time to rest and recouperate. Botched moves are more likely to occur because they are flat out exhausted. I saw that Cena documentary thingy with The Rock and I could not believe that man's schedule. It is beyond stupid. This is something that needs to be addressed.

Really enjoyed that post

I don't buy this lack of competition idea, although there aren't direct competitors as in wrestling companies, WWE competes against every other form of entertainment on television, and at the moment they are losing badly. Every time there is another event on TV WWE loses a lot of viewers because of it which suggests that they're not followed to the same extent as they were in the past.

It's the poisoned chalice of WWE trying to define themselves in mainstream entertainment is that their new viewers are a lot more fickle, they don't feel the loyalty to WWE and will switch off if they feel something else is better.

The 3rd ppv after Mania is always the dissapointing one of the year take Capital Punishment last year.

Usually around this point were the major summer storyline happens. 2010 - Nexus Invasion and last year the CM Punk promo.

Im hoping after what looks like an awfull ppv things will get better for Summer Slam