No More Blue Clay

Just to divert your attention away from Wimbledon for a brief moment.. I have just come across this article which you might like to see. Pity the ATP never stepped in before but better late than never


http://www.wkrn.com/story/18863205/atp-says-madrid-open-cant-have-blue-clay-in-2013

A bit premature, IMVHO, a second chance after proper preparation of the courts to see if they support both players and viewers equally well, would have been a good response.

Otherwise it feels like arm-twisting.

I guess this is way to premature, they said they gonna try some challengers out later this year, this kinda forcing the results by direct player challenges is no good for the game.

Anyways GoodBye Blue clay. RIP

He says that while the new color, in place of the traditional red clay, "may have offered better visibility on television, there were clearly issues with the quality of the courts in Madrid this year, which were not acceptable."
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Personally it is my opinion that it should have not reached the stage of "arm twisting" if "clearly there were issues with the quality of the courts" if it is seen not to be acceptable now then it was known at the time and I said then as I do now that it took far too long for the ATP to intervene and it should not have had to rely on the players to publicly speak out before the ATP decided to do something.. poor show by them I think
Anyway right or wrong at the time Nadal and Djoko stood their ground and someone finally saw sense

Well at least they have seen sense! Also found this on the ATP site

“After careful consideration, I have decided that blue clay courts
will not be allowed next year,” said Drewett. “I very much believe in
innovation and exploring ways to enhance our sport. While the blue clay
may have offered better visibility on television, there were clearly
issues with the quality of the courts in Madrid this year, which were
not acceptable at an ATP World Tour Masters 1000 tournament, one of our
top events worldwide. Regardless of colour, we must first ensure that
courts are safe and fair for players.

“I know that Ion Tiriac was also disappointed with the court
quality in Madrid this year. Ion has been a great supporter of the game
for many years and I continue to encourage his ideas, including the
testing of blue clay at non-ATP World Tour events. At this time,
however, it’s clear that further development is required before it can
be considered for use at the ATP World Tour level.”

In 2011, the ATP granted permission to the Mutua Madrid Open
to use blue clay courts at its 2012 event only, with the understanding
that it would be fully evaluated following the tournament.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/06/Features/ATP-Rules-Out-Blue-Clay-For-2013.aspx

IMO it should never have been "tested" at ATP World Tour level in the first place. If there has been any "arm twisting" going on it was by Tiriac to allow this experiment to take place at an important Masters tournament. I doubt he was thinking of viewers watching on dodgy live feeds who wanted to see the ball clearer either. It was all about publicity for the blue linked sponsors.

Personally I thought it looked horrible and I have no trouble tracking the ball on red clay so for my own selfish reasons I am pleased too.

Absolutely agree HE.. Tiriac wasn´t thinking of anyone other than himelf and how he could make a bit more money from it. I have always maintained that in the first instance the ATP had responsibility to the players and should have asked their opinion before being presented with a fait acompli .So all is well that ends well thankfully

Maybe the problem with the courts wasn't that it's blue, but some miscalculation with the salt and rain? Couldn't the same have happened with red claycourts? Really poor decision by ATP, but ofcourse Djokovic and Nadal need all courts perfectly made for them.

Chydremion wrote:Maybe the problem with the courts wasn't that it's blue, but some miscalculation with the salt and rain? Couldn't the same have happened with red claycourts? Really poor decision by ATP, but ofcourse Djokovic and Nadal need all courts perfectly made for them.

No. The really poor decision came in the first place allowing the tournament before the surface was trialled at lower levels.

Why, because the 2 boring defenders couldn't deal with it?

Seifer Almasy wrote:Why, because the 2 boring defenders couldn't deal with it?

Wake up and smell the coffee and read the vast amount of players known to have complained about the surface:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/9250311/Players-unhappy-with-Smurf-blue-clay-courts-at-Madrid-Masters.html

May be more complex than just salt though...blue clay has ferrous oxide removed, so salt on top of normal red clay may bond, or rather not bond as it shouldn't do, differently.

This should never have been allowed to happen...Helfant was a buffoon. Madrid can be earmarked as almost a joke tournament.

Seifer Almasy wrote:Why, because the 2 boring defenders couldn't deal with it?

it will be interesting then to see how many players will be complaining that it is not BLUE next year...
Dont hold your breath will you

If the surface was so bad then why did Federer, and another top 6 player reach the final, haddie?

Nadal can do no wrong can he? lolz

JM

At it again JM...neither can Djoko can he...???

Wait until you hear Federer saying "oh No I really wanted blue clay next year and the other top 6 player (whose name seems to have escaped your memory)
Dont hold your breath though will you...
For goodness sake ..do try growing up JM I know its a tall order and Ill just have to be patient a little while longer eh ??? But it will happen I promise

?

Why don't you tell Nadal to stop moaning?

Seems clear that he pulled a tantrum and threatened to boycott the event in the future, and forced them to abandon a surface that Federer and Berdych played well on. Just pure selfishness is what its called.

And what about Djokovic ... what did he do then... oh do keep up JM
If you are going to TRY and be a Wum do get your facts straight...

hawkeye wrote:In 2011, the ATP granted permission to the Mutua Madrid Open to use blue clay courts at its 2012 event only, with the understanding that it would be fully evaluated following the tournament.

Where is the evaluation? Will it ever see the public eye?

http://www.madrid-open.com/en/la-caja-magica/como-se-fabrica-la-tierra-azul/

The grain size of this first layer is much finer and it is this that will set the base.

Speculation, but this is perhaps the area that needs to be revisited.

Also, Madrid has offered this composition on their practice courts since 2009.

With visuals in mind, the track has been blue at the last two world outdoor athletics championships in 2009 and 2011. The Olympic field hockey competition this summer in London will be the first top-level event in that sport to be played on blue turf instead of green, a decision approved three years ago.

“No two events on clay are identical, however red the clay is,” he said. “The sensation of playing in Monte Carlo is not the same as in Madrid or Barcelona, but the color does not have more influence than the altitude or the climate.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/sports/tennis/03iht-tennis03.html

I am also surprised at the 'emotional' overtone that this article has produced so far.

I am also surprised at the 'emotional' overtone that this article has produced so far
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Why should you be surprised ??? Nadal + JM an ideal excuse for a wind up even you must know that

The article was intended for information basically for those who agreed that it was all a bad idea in the first place... I cant help your resident "comedian" turning it into a Nadal bashing exercise.

Put me on your 'foe' list and you won't have to reply, dragging this article in a mire, basically annoying the moderators while you're at it haddie.

This is pretty clear...the guys at top of ATP weren't impressed with the negativity that Madrid Blue brought to the tour. The courts weren't properly tested in match conditions as Tiriac had promised to Helfant. So the decision has been made rather than have another debacle next year. It wasn't just Nadal/Djokovic who complained either.

I can imagine Tiriac will be furious behind the scenes...with himself, for not getting the court properly tested at Challenger/250 level. He could then have rolled it out properly at Madrid but now he's unlikely to get the ATP sanction it again anytime soon.

Result: Tiriac own-goal.

laverfan wrote:

Where is the evaluation? Will it ever see the public eye?

That's a good idea! It should be put to the public to evaluate. I will do it.

https://www.606v2.com/t31555-blue-clay-did-it-look-good#1342286

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Put me on your 'foe' list and you won't have to reply, dragging this article in a mire, basically annoying the moderators while you're at it haddie. :shock:

This was my article JM intended for information for those posters who are actually interested in discussing the rights and wrongs of using blue clay... you dragged MY ARTICLE into the mire when you start bashing Nadal. And I will involve the moderators when you do it again. Being a friend or foe of yours does not come to the top of my list of priorities and I dont give a flying fig. :furious:

Haddie-nuff wrote:I am also surprised at the 'emotional' overtone that this article has produced so far
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Why should you be surprised ??? Nadal + JM an ideal excuse for a wind up even you must know that

The article was intended for information basically for those who agreed that it was all a bad idea in the first place... I cant help your resident "comedian" turning it into a Nadal bashing exercise.

H-n.

JM... can this article stick to it's original intended purpose?

hawkeye wrote:

laverfan wrote:

Where is the evaluation? Will it ever see the public eye?

That's a good idea! It should be put to the public to evaluate. I will do it.

https://www.606v2.com/t31555-blue-clay-did-it-look-good#1342286

"Where is the evaluation?" implies that is there a link that can be posted on 606v2?

"Will it ever see the public eye?" - This is not Operacion Puerto, is it?

Where did I suggest that 'public evaluate the blue clay'? Is 'public' and ATP the same entity?

Some posters to me seem stuck in negativity, you never get a cheery word from them.
Life and souls they are...guess its all part of the cyber spectrum.

laverfan wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:I am also surprised at the 'emotional' overtone that this article has produced so far
-----------------------------------------------------
Why should you be surprised ??? Nadal + JM an ideal excuse for a wind up even you must know that

The article was intended for information basically for those who agreed that it was all a bad idea in the first place... I cant help your resident "comedian" turning it into a Nadal bashing exercise.

H-n.

JM... can this article stick to it's original intended purpose?

I accept your apologies LF though I dont expect it not from you it wasn´t your fault

Well there is a smile from me to you lydian

laverfan wrote:

hawkeye wrote:

laverfan wrote:

Where is the evaluation? Will it ever see the public eye?

That's a good idea! It should be put to the public to evaluate. I will do it.

https://www.606v2.com/t31555-blue-clay-did-it-look-good#1342286

"Where is the evaluation?" implies that is there a link that can be posted on 606v2?

"Will it ever see the public eye?" - This is not Operacion Puerto, is it?

Where did I suggest that 'public evaluate the blue clay'? Is 'public' and ATP the same entity?

What? Why so snide? The courts were painted blue for our benefit so that we (the public) could have an improved viewing experience. We (the public) should therefore evaluate it. It should of course be judged on how it looks.

Not true Lydian.. I am positive in tennis for the likes of Dolgopolov, Raonic, DP. I am negative on the effects Djokovic, Nadal and Murray have on tennis. Again look back to my original comment, if the surface was so wrong, why were Federer and Berdych succeeding on it? *puts on anti-Nadal shield*

Josiah Maiestas wrote:?

Why don't you tell Nadal to stop moaning?

Seems clear that he pulled a tantrum and threatened to boycott the event in the future, and forced them to abandon a surface that Federer and Berdych played well on. Just pure selfishness is what its called.

"anti nadal shield" !!!!!!!

This article had nothing to do with ANY PLAYER .. no player was mentioned in my original post... YOU AND ONLY YOU introduced Nadal into the debate JM..no one else Negative negative

Haddie-nuff wrote:

laverfan wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:I am also surprised at the 'emotional' overtone that this article has produced so far
-----------------------------------------------------
Why should you be surprised ??? Nadal + JM an ideal excuse for a wind up even you must know that

The article was intended for information basically for those who agreed that it was all a bad idea in the first place... I cant help your resident "comedian" turning it into a Nadal bashing exercise.

H-n.

JM... can this article stick to it's original intended purpose?

I accept your apologies LF though I dont expect it not from you it wasn´t your fault

H-n. My intent was just to discuss the OP and not bash any players. I am JM considers you synonymous with Nadal. Hopefully JM can let rationality prevail.

JM...you know as well as I do that many players complained....men, women players, journos, etc.

Look, you're arguing against yourself here... the 2 guys who contested MC, Rome and French Open finals didnt even make it to the weekend at Madrid. I guess that's because it was a normal clay court hey? The surface WAS so wrong....Infact so wrong the ATP have said No. What's there to discuss here...really? That Federer and Berdych profitted from slippery indoor fast court conditions in the middle of a European clay court season? Perhaps you would like Monte Carlo thrown in after Cincinatti and before USO?

Sometimes I just think you like to be contrary and wind people up.

Who made the biggest fuss about the blue clay haddie???

Nadal is being negative about the blue clay, not me, I was up for that alteration, shamefully you followed Nadal's orders like a flock of sheep.

hawkeye wrote:

laverfan wrote:

hawkeye wrote:

laverfan wrote:

Where is the evaluation? Will it ever see the public eye?

That's a good idea! It should be put to the public to evaluate. I will do it.

https://www.606v2.com/t31555-blue-clay-did-it-look-good#1342286

"Where is the evaluation?" implies that is there a link that can be posted on 606v2?

"Will it ever see the public eye?" - This is not Operacion Puerto, is it?

Where did I suggest that 'public evaluate the blue clay'? Is 'public' and ATP the same entity?

What? Why so snide? The courts were painted blue for our benefit so that we (the public) could have an improved viewing experience. We (the public) should therefore evaluate it. It should of course be judged on how it looks.

HE, my intent was not to be snide. I was just asking whether this explanation, from Tiriac, is sufficient to fix the problems and leave it blue.

...because they lack sufficient grip. As a result, both men have threatened to skip next year's event.

"The court is slippery and I apologise," said Tiriac, the man behind the blue clay idea, on Friday. "We wanted to make sure that we had no player injuries, no ankle problems.

"As a result, the court experts rolled the base with too much pressure. When the blue sand was put on top it was unable to meld with the base, creating the slippage."

http://www1.skysports.com/tennis/news/12110/7749277/Tiriac-sorry-over-courts

It's a shame that the ATP bowed to Nadull and Djokovic.

It's high time we had more variety rather than all surfaces being super slow and tedious attritional tennis wins everything. A bad day for tennis again!

Super D Boon wrote:It's a shame that the ATP bowed to Nadull and Djokovic.

It's high time we had more variety rather than all surfaces being super slow and tedious attritional tennis wins everything. A bad day for tennis again!

Errr no.......a number of players are the known to have spoken out against it are numerous from both the men's and women's circuit actually.

Sergiy Stakhovsky
Rafael Nadal
Novak Djokovic
Ivo Karlovic
Victoria Azarenka
Caroline Wozniaka

So you see more than just an odd few random complaints and Stakhovsky labelled it the worst surface on the ATP circuit.

Super D Boon wrote:It's a shame that the ATP bowed to Nadull and Djokovic.

It's high time we had more variety rather than all surfaces being super slow and tedious attritional tennis wins everything. A bad day for tennis again!

Instead of player bashing, can we stick to the OP and not show proclivity to kill the messenger. Pretty certain, if I had written this article instead of H-n, it could have stayed away from the usual descent into the Fedalovic debates.

LF Im not interested in hearing the opinions of those ignorant enough to denegrade Nadal..Ive heard the opinions of those knowledgeable posters who have at least had something intelligent to add to the debate. If you wish to close this thread you would be doing me a favour Ive nothing further to add.

Haddie-nuff wrote:LF Im not interested in hearing the opinions of those ignorant enough to denegrade Nadal..Ive heard the opinions of those knowledgeable posters who have at least had something intelligent to add to the debate. If you wish to close this thread you would be doing me a favour Ive nothing further to add.

With your permission, I would like to leave it open. I would expect rationality to prevail in the end.

Insightful post SuperB...so let's screw up all the surfaces to achieve variety then?

Youre a hothead haddie. I mention Nadal and you go off one vehemently seeking to destroy. I can criticise Nadal when I want to, and you won't stop me. Get the F over that!

Craig

Stakhovsky and Karlovic are known to complain about a lotta things.. both these 2 have been stagnating in the rankings for a long while so I expect them to carry it on!

Haddie-nuff wrote:LF Im not interested in hearing the opinions of those ignorant enough to denegrade Nadal..Ive heard the opinions of those knowledgeable posters who have at least had something intelligent to add to the debate. If you wish to close this thread you would be doing me a favour Ive nothing further to add.

Well it was you who started replying to me and belittling me. Obsessed with me.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:LF Im not interested in hearing the opinions of those ignorant enough to denegrade Nadal..Ive heard the opinions of those knowledgeable posters who have at least had something intelligent to add to the debate. If you wish to close this thread you would be doing me a favour Ive nothing further to add.

Well it was you who started replying to me and belittling me. Obsessed with me.

JM and H-n... Thanks.

I don't think the ATP gives a toss about the fans, we (the 90% sanity) vote to keep the blue clay. I also recommend Wimbledon to engage with blue grass henceforth.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:It's a shame that the ATP bowed to Nadull and Djokovic.

It's high time we had more variety rather than all surfaces being super slow and tedious attritional tennis wins everything. A bad day for tennis again!

Errr no.......a number of players are the known to have spoken out against it are numerous from both the men's and women's circuit actually.

Sergiy Stakhovsky
Rafael Nadal
Novak Djokovic
Ivo Karlovic
Victoria Azarenka
Caroline Wozniaka

So you see more than just an odd few random complaints and Stakhovsky labelled it the worst surface on the ATP circuit.

Stakhovsky looking for another angle whereby he gets more money for winning fewer matches again?

bogbrush wrote:
Stakhovsky looking for another angle whereby he gets more money for winning fewer matches again?

Watch out BB, he is in the Players Council.

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:It's a shame that the ATP bowed to Nadull and Djokovic.

It's high time we had more variety rather than all surfaces being super slow and tedious attritional tennis wins everything. A bad day for tennis again!

Errr no.......a number of players are the known to have spoken out against it are numerous from both the men's and women's circuit actually.

Sergiy Stakhovsky
Rafael Nadal
Novak Djokovic
Ivo Karlovic
Victoria Azarenka
Caroline Wozniaka

So you see more than just an odd few random complaints and Stakhovsky labelled it the worst surface on the ATP circuit.

Stakhovsky looking for another angle whereby he gets more money for winning fewer matches again?

Highest point of Stakhovsky's career: 5 set win over Ryan Harrison. Somehow Stakhovsky is able to use a SHBH though

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:It's a shame that the ATP bowed to Nadull and Djokovic.

It's high time we had more variety rather than all surfaces being super slow and tedious attritional tennis wins everything. A bad day for tennis again!

Errr no.......a number of players are the known to have spoken out against it are numerous from both the men's and women's circuit actually.

Sergiy Stakhovsky
Rafael Nadal
Novak Djokovic
Ivo Karlovic
Victoria Azarenka
Caroline Wozniaka

So you see more than just an odd few random complaints and Stakhovsky labelled it the worst surface on the ATP circuit.

Stakhovsky looking for another angle whereby he gets more money for winning fewer matches again?

Even if that were the case (which is unproven) how do you explain the other vocal complaints from such a number of players like no other tournie has had. Bear in mind it was a new surface untried at any level and they chucked it straight into the ATP tour without consulting the players. Anyone for ice next year at Wimbledon?