Neil Back new Edinburgh forwards coach

http://edinburghrugby.org/news/edinburgh-news/4245-world-cup-winner-named-forwards-coach

Bold move for Edinburgh here appointing Neil Back as a new forwards coach. Edinburgh have a history of giving fairly inexperienced coaches a chance (Todd Blackadder, Tom Smith) and now it is the turn of Neil Back (Edit - turns out he actually has a lot more experience than I first thought!)

He was a total pain in the hoop as a player, but hopefully he can be a great asset for Edinburgh and make our young forward pack a force to be reckoned with.

Am interested to hear the thoughts of non-Scotland rugby people?

Neil Back was the head coach at first Leeds and then at ambitious (possibly too ambitious) Rugby Lions. He was also the defence coach at Tigers and reportedly only missed out on the top job because other members of the backroom staff said he was too difficult to work with and hence Cockers got the top job instead with Backie choosing to leave.

Great rugby brain but potentially a difficult man to work with.

He is certainly not inexperienced (please excuse the double negative).

whether he has wound in the intensity a little we will have to see. As with Sam I had heard of problems at tigers. As a player he was exceedingly intense and driven, always feeling he had something to prove and that hdue to his size he had to train harder, be better than anyone else. Not sure he ever got to grips with the fact that other people are different and have different stimuli.

Technically he could be really good for Embra - though he never really got the leeds pack sorted.

Yeah didn't realise he had so much experience later on in his playing career. I take that back!

Hard to judge how good he is as a head coach, as LT says he struggled to get the pack sorted at Leeds as they blew hot and cold but they did have the smallest budget in the league both years he was in charge in the AP. At Rugby Lions he romped to victory and promotion with a big financial backer though there are rumours that money dried up halfway through the season and that Back was paying players out of his own pocket.

To be fair we've said for years that the Scottish pro teams are too much in their comfort zones - someone like Back might disrupt that which is maybe a good thing. Maybe...

I think this is a good signing. He'll certainly be a no nonsense man.

Rennie, Denton, McInally et al will learn a lot from one of the best loose forwards to have played the game.

If the enviroment is right and they don't mind a shouty, sweary man as a coach he can add a lot. Certainly the flankers will learn a lot about ball stealing techniques in the ruck as Backie was a god at that area of play. A small man who made a big influence. Rennie is already good if he can learn from Backie he will truely be a Scottish backrow legend by the end of his career.

Rennie and Back are similar styles of players so hopefully he'll help Rennie fulfill his potential.

and talk him into signing for Tigers...

Why would he want to lose his best player?

I thought Back had committed to Rugby Lions on a longer term basis. Not sure where I heard that,though. Did something go off the rails there? Or is he simply looking to get back to the top club level?

Chat is they ran out of cash

Shame. I think it would be good for Rugby to have a thriving club in Rugby. Another instance of a big money guy coming in and not ready for the long haul? But, I think its good for Edinburgh. Back is a good man and should do well (and the team, of course, too).

RDW_Scotland wrote:Chat is they ran out of cash

The high roller pulled his money

The more I think about this, the more I think it is a fantastic appointment:

He literally has achieved everything there is to achieve in the game, and comes with a wealth of experience of the pro game someone like, say, Peter Wright wouldn't have

He talks the talk so far - meticulous planning, high work rate. Things that are good to hear

He will work the forwards bloody hard and take them out their comfort zones

Most of his career was spent at one of the powerhouses of European rugby - Leicester. He can bring some of that experience in how to run a professional club to Edinburgh

He can hopefully use his experience to turn Ross Rennie into a truely world class 7

There are a few downsides of course, and the fact that he's perceived to be difficult to work with is a worry, but as with everything willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and lets see what he does with the guys!

If he can make the pack stronger it will move them on tot he next level as we saw last year their first choice backs are a match for anyone but the forwards need to move it up a bit.

All seems to be getting better as the Scottish teams so seems like the SRU finally see the benefit of them.

He also wont stand by and let the b team take a hammering in the Rabo so that will be good for all involved

I don't think he will, but I'd be disappointed if he tried to change the way the forwards play. Our game is based on rampaging ball carrying from Denton, Talei, Ford etc and fast rucking to give us a dynamic style of play. It suits the style of players we've got.

I think this is a great appointment. As noted on the other thread, as a player there have been few better at understanding the necessary link between forwards and backs, and I think given Edinburgh's playing style, Neil Back is an excellent choice of forwards coach.

There has clearly been an emphasis from the top down on both pro sides and the international side playing a similar brand of rugby: a fast-paced, offloading and attacking brand. I can think of no other rational reason for ditching Lineen for Townsend other than ensuring that this message is translated at Glasgow as well as Edinburgh and Scotland. On the basis it must be the case that Neil Back has bought into this approach. Certainly as a player he'd have endorsed playing that way.

As a character, he is obsessive and driven, and not prone to letting standards slip for a nano-second. A perfect tonic for the shambles that was the Edinburgh second string last season. The intensity he will bring should hopefully give some of the players a shake. They need it.

This is a very positive and I'd say ambitious signing. Back is an ambitious man. I also don't hold his record at Leeds much against him. It was an extremely rough assignment given his budget, and he took them up and made a fist of staying in the AP. On his budget, that wasn't a bad effort at all, especially given how inexperienced he was as a coach on taking that job.

Good work SRU!

RDW_Scotland wrote:I don't think he will, but I'd be disappointed if he tried to change the way the forwards play. Our game is based on rampaging ball carrying from Denton, Talei, Ford etc and fast rucking to give us a dynamic style of play. It suits the style of players we've got.

+1

The Toulouse game aside Edinburgh are not really good at grinding attritional Forward based play. If Back can play to our strengths and improve our fantastic breakdown work even more I expect good things from Edinburgh.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I don't think he will, but I'd be disappointed if he tried to change the way the forwards play. Our game is based on rampaging ball carrying from Denton, Talei, Ford etc and fast rucking to give us a dynamic style of play. It suits the style of players we've got.

+1

The Toulouse game aside Edinburgh are not really good at grinding attritional Forward based play. If Back can play to our strengths and improve our fantastic breakdown work even more I expect good things from Edinburgh.

Hopefully the two new Saffas can add a bit of "nasty" in that department too. No strangers to grinding attritional play.

All in all - pretty excited to be an Edinburgh fan just now!

Let's see how long that lasts...

RDW_Scotland wrote:All in all - pretty excited to be an Edinburgh fan just now!

Let's see how long that lasts...

Give it a month or so. We'll probably lose to Lambrini, or whatever the new Italian side is called, spank Leinster away, and then drop more points to Connacht and the Dragons at home. The All Blacks will tear Scotland a new one in the AIs and Gregor Townsend will fulfil all expectations as Glasgow coach, pioneering his "you don't need to score tries to win matches" philosophy.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

We'll probably lose to Lambrini, or whatever the new Italian side is called

I have a little more faith! Or is it blind optimism? Keep mixing up the two.

funnyExiledScot wrote:.........We'll probably lose to Lambrini, or whatever the new Italian side is called............

I think the new side is called Burlesconi, and will be reknowned for their dancing girls on the touch lines.

Bunga bunga

Back is a very good coach, hes a terrible manager and needs someone to hold his hand.. This is the right sort of job for him.

Good addition always rated that guy.

really if you look at all the new players coming in this year Ed should be looking at top 3 in rabo and min qf heineken

everything is there.

Mate - big discussion on this going on in the club section!

I remember at Leeds he made sure that the players were very fit. He'll probably do the same with Edinburgh, which will be a good thing because it seems like the Scottish players can't execute skills under fatigue. Hopefully he can change that.

To be fair he's the forwards coach, not the fitness coach! I understand what you're saying though.

Really good interview with him on the Edinburgh website

http://edinburghrugby.org/news/edinburgh-news/4246-video-backs-in-black

This really is a very high profile coup for Edinburgh - the guy has a really good amount of experience and would be an asset to any club.

From today's Hootsmon:

Rugby World Cup winner Neil Back comes to Edinburgh as new forwards coach

RUGBY World Cup winner Neil Back has been appointed Edinburgh forwards coach on a two-year deal. The former England openside flanker arrives with nearly a decade of coaching experience.

His appointment will add fuel to the arguments of those who believe home-grown coaches are not being given the chance to shine in the Scottish professional game.

However, Back comes north with an impressive record of coaching success after a stellar playing career. And Edinburgh coach Michael Bradley was clearly excited by the prospect of teaming up with the “consistent winner”.

He said: “There is a consistent thread of success throughout his playing and coaching career, his attention to detail is exceptional and he has already outlined clearly the standards he expects of himself and our squad.

“Technically, he is very strong and his coaching credentials stand out as someone who gets the best out of players – a characteristic which, added to him being a consistent winner, makes him a positive appointment for Edinburgh Rugby. If our forwards can embrace that sort of focus and commitment, then Edinburgh Rugby will go from strength to strength.”

In a playing career spanning 15 years at Leicester Tigers from 1990 to 2005, Back won four English Premiership titles and two Heineken Cups. But it was as part of England’s famed and feared back-row combination of Richard Hill, Lawrence Dallaglio and himself that Back achieved international prominence. It was the cornerstone of England’s success at the turn of this century, culminating in their World Cup victory in Australia in 2003.

He won 66 caps after making his debut at Murrayfield in England’s 15-14 win over Scotland in 1994, and he made three Lions tours, including the victorious one in South Africa in 1997 led by Ian McGeechan and Jim Telfer. After England’s World Cup-winning year, Back spent two seasons as both Leicester captain and player-coach, before being promoted to assistant coach when he retired from playing after the Lions’ miserable tour of New Zealand in 2005.

He was in that role for three seasons and, during the five seasons in which he had coaching responsibilities at Welford Road, Leicester played in four Premiership finals and reached the Heineken Cup final in 2007.

He became head coach of English Championship side Leeds Carnegie in 2008 and, in the first of three seasons at the club, won the league and promotion to the Premiership. Last season, he led National League 3 side Rugby Lions to the title with a 100 per cent winning record.

Speaking about his new role in Edinburgh, Back promised to bring “100 per cent commitment” to the job. He said: “This role presents a fantastic challenge and I’m very grateful to get the opportunity at such a high-profile club. It’s a very exciting time for Edinburgh Rugby with a great squad, exciting new players arriving and some positive performances to build on from last season. There are lots of elements to a rugby player, and to being in a position to excel technically and physically, so my coaching philosophy is to be meticulous in everything we do. It’s very much about the absolute fine detail needed to maximise your potential. I’m a passionate coach. I’m 100 per cent committed, 100 per cent of the time, and I’m really looking forward to this challenge.”

Back endured some controversial moments during his playing career, notably in 1996 when he pushed referee Steve Lander to the ground after he had blown the final whistle on Leicester’s Pilkington Cup final defeat at the hands of Bath. Back later claimed he had mistaken Lander for Andy Robinson, who was playing opposite Back that day in Bath’s back row, but he was banned for six months. He also incurred the wrath of the Irish press and public in the Heineken Cup final against Munster in 2002. With Leicester leading 15-9 in the final moments, Munster won a scrum deep in Leicester territory as they searched for the winning score. But, with the referee unsighted, Back illegally knocked the ball from Munster scrum-half Peter Stringer’s hand and Leicester cleared to secure victory.

And there will be some who will feel his latest appointment provides further evidence of a ‘glass ceiling’ blocking Scottish club coaches making the grade in the professional game that Peter Wright spoke about in March when he announced he was standing down as Glasgow Hawks director of rugby.

Only one coach in the current professional set up in Scotland – Shade Munro at Glasgow Warriors – developed his talents in Scotland, although the SRU are running a Continuing Professional Development programme for club coaches with the potential of a two-year placement with a professional club.

Back will begin his new role at Murrayfield later this month.

I know the Scottish club coaches not being promoted is a big deal, but this is a professional game and I'd much rather someone of Neil Back's professional experience than Peter Wright's amateur experience.

Yes I'd rather it was a Scottish coach - and I hope that Scottish coaches are given an opportunity to develop in the future, but I'm quite happy for a pro coach to be coaching at our pro team.

oops just noticed! wrong section I guess..

It going to be much tougher this year. Instead of Cardiff and London Irish you get Munster and Saracens in Europe. Also you are going to need to make a massive climb in the league.

I dont think you have the squad for both a 3rd place finish and knockouts of Europe.

If you're going to appoint a relatively inexperienced coach, it might as well be one who is a triple-Lions tourist and world cup winner.

Have a lot of respect for Back - well worth a punt on.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I know the Scottish club coaches not being promoted is a big deal, but this is a professional game and I'd much rather someone of Neil Back's professional experience than Peter Wright's amateur experience.

Yes I'd rather it was a Scottish coach - and I hope that Scottish coaches are given an opportunity to develop in the future, but I'm quite happy for a pro coach to be coaching at our pro team.

Completely agree. These guys should stop whinging and get some professional experience somewhere. There are plenty of clubs out there, and no reason why the SRU should just promote from within rather than imposing a meritocracy (although clearly with the Townsend appointment they are not hugely fussed about merit either).

Peter Wright et al should be prepared to coach anywhere to get experience, and should not think that an amateur CV will appeal to Edinburgh and Glasgow simply because it's held by someone born in Scotland. This is the 21st century. Go and coach in NZ or Australia, or France or England. Show some initiative for heaven's sake. The SRU shouldn't be expected to create some internal ladder whereby if you are Scottish and coach for 10 years then you'll get a promotion.

Neil Back is an excellent choice. I applaud the SRU for this appointment.