England : How's SCW shaping up?

[quote="Portnoy"]As Director of Sport for the BOC, things seem to be going OK (Sunday after mid-Saturday) 29 34 medals in twelve sports.
Monday 6th : 37 medals in twelve sports.
Tuesday 7th : 40 medals in twelve sports.

Wednesday 8th : 48 medals in twelve sports.

Get him back to HQ!

A better question, is :

"How much credit will SCW try to take for GB's impressive gold medal haul?"

I predict a book will come out called "WINNING: Gold" Pt2 of the SCW autobiography. Where he will claim all British Olympic programmes were a mess until he came in and sort it all out and how 90% of the winning performances all about him and then a lot of silly management platitude and anogram like "TPOT" the Olympic version of "TCUP".

anotherworldofpain wrote:A better question, is :

"How much credit will SCW try to take for GB's impressive gold medal haul?"

I predict a book will come out called "WINNING: Gold" Pt2 of the SCW autobiography. Where he will claim all British Olympic programmes were a mess until he came in and sort it all out and how 90% of the winning performances all about him and then a lot of silly management platitude and anogram like "TPOT" the Olympic version of "TCUP".

Unfortunately awop, Winning 1 was a decent account of what the state of English rugby was. And something that (at least the Welsh) have acknowledged.

He wanted to rip the heart out of the farty RFU and to develop a truly professional and heartless structure at HQ. Just as he has led a BOC into a success culture at BOC. Out went the funding for the likes of volleyball because he thought that they weren't good enough so they had to find their own way of funding - and he was right.

And I don't for a minute predict that his Lions campaign will ever again be repeated.

The thing about SCW is that he's the forward-thinking administrator he has the ability and drive, the competency and managerial skill, the ruthlessness and empathy (yes, those two together) to break down the barriers to successs. Plus he will put in the protocols to remove the mini-gains that are required to maximise performances.

I hope that he will have also learned from both Brailsford (cycling) and Gröbler (rowing) to enhance his skills to recreate the winning environment which characterised his tenure at Twickenham.

I think he'll continue to work on the board at Tigers, maybe taking on a bigger role there (what with him being a younger board member). That is until the next RFU board reshuffle takes place in a few years time where he may well take Squeaky's job.

I thought he wanted to be a football manager? What happened to that 'mission statement aspirational goal target' of his?

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think he'll continue to work on the board at Tigers, maybe taking on a bigger role there (what with him being a younger board member). That is until the next RFU board reshuffle takes place in a few years time where he may well take Squeaky's job.

Something had better happen faster than that Sam. Woody is 56 now and England as a World and club European is whirling down the sh1tter. A firm decision ought to immediately taken. The post-Olympic period of opportunity wont be measured in years. Weeks most-like.

No time for dawdling now. But the big question is whether Beaumont will decide firmly one way or the other and whether he can carry the RFU board with him.

I thought he wanted to be a football manager? What happened to that 'mission statement aspirational goal target' of his?

He worked with Southampton for a bit, didn't enjoy it much and then went and took the Olympic job. He seems to have done good things with the Olympic lot, certainly the strategies implemented have come through very nicely indeed.

No time for dawdling now. But the big question is whether Beaumont will decide firmly one way or the other and whether he can carry the RFU board with him.

Sorry Portnoy but let's face it changing the direction of the RFU is slower than the turning circle of an oil tanker. It will take at least a year before any noticeable changes are made.

Beaumont has had only a couple of months since his election (I always said that the Board should get sorted before the Lancaster appointment).

Lets:
1: From a Tigers point of view be happy that SL was selected whilst the Tigers were only just back from the RWC/injury.

2: Hope that Beaumont is a lot more assertive than the Captain Pugwash of yore.

anotherworldofpain wrote:A better question, is :

"How much credit will SCW try to take for GB's impressive gold medal haul?"

I predict a book will come out called "WINNING: Gold" Pt2 of the SCW autobiography. Where he will claim all British Olympic programmes were a mess until he came in and sort it all out and how 90% of the winning performances all about him and then a lot of silly management platitude and anogram like "TPOT" the Olympic version of "TCUP".

Agree. Without doing down his fine achievements with English rugby, he now does speak an awful lot of self-congratulatory guff.

He really does believe his own hype. Sure, top coaches and managers need a steely self-believe, but a little less of the Wurnam Hogg wouldn't go a miss. His Sunday Times articles criticising everything anyone has ever done in English rugby since his departure only come across as a self-serving job application - usually with his buddy Stephen Jones giving him a journalistic hand job on the opposite page of the paper.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:A better question, is :

"How much credit will SCW try to take for GB's impressive gold medal haul?"

I predict a book will come out called "WINNING: Gold" Pt2 of the SCW autobiography. Where he will claim all British Olympic programmes were a mess until he came in and sort it all out and how 90% of the winning performances all about him and then a lot of silly management platitude and anogram like "TPOT" the Olympic version of "TCUP".

Agree. Without doing down his fine achievements with English rugby, he now does speak an awful lot of self-congratulatory guff.

He really does believe his own hype. Sure, top coaches and managers need a steely self-believe, but a little less of the Wurnam Hogg wouldn't go a miss. His Sunday Times articles criticising everything anyone has ever done in English rugby since his departure only come across as a self-serving job application - usually with his buddy Stephen Jones giving him a journalistic hand job on the opposite page of the paper.

To be fair both Jake White and now Graham Henry have done exactly the same as this, it seems to be a requirement that WC winning coaches have to be quoted in the papers telling everyone how to do their jobs, either that or the press have realised that it's just an easy way to cause a fuss and get some debate going.

At least SCW is English, the other two slag us off and they're not even from this country. Cheeky blighters.

Portnoy would you welcome Clive back to Tigers with open arms?

Beshocked, he's already there.

http://www.leicestertigers.com/club/11836.php

He'd actually be a very good NED to have on the board. He does know a fair bit about the game and he'd question absolutely everything. His meticulous attention to detail is something that no-one can deny him. He certainly won't be doing the role for the free tickets and boozy lunches.

No but I suspect free tickets and boozy lunches are a handy perk FES. Being a Non-Exec is one of the best jobs going, or so I've heard. He's probably taking a nice salary offering his professional skills to the club to help them plan and on top of it all he is a very useful ambassador for the club.

SCW will cash in on the success of his Team GB elitist programme at the Olympics and it is hard to argue with their success; I can even see him being involved with the Lions 2013

mowgli wrote:SCW will cash in on the success of his Team GB elitist programme at the Olympics and it is hard to argue with their success; I can even see him being involved with the Lions 2013

Which successful countries don't have elitist programmes? I have a post on the Olympics part of v2 criticising posh and cash barriers to sports.

He'll won't not be over-interested in the Lions.

But that's not relevant to the OP. The man has to be judged as a sports administrator in the long-term.

He could be usefull. Or he could be not, i'm semi interested in seeing how he goes if he did take a back office role in the RFU

Portnoy wrote:

mowgli wrote:SCW will cash in on the success of his Team GB elitist programme at the Olympics and it is hard to argue with their success; I can even see him being involved with the Lions 2013

Which successful countries don't have elitist programmes? I have a post on the Olympics part of v2 criticising posh and cash barriers to sports.

He'll won't not be over-interested in the Lions.

But that's not relevant to the OP. The man has to be judged as a sports administrator in the long-term.

Portnoy, have you been learning from AWOP?

Anyhew, how much impact has CW had relative to individual programme directors? I mean Brailsford vs Woodward - simply no contest imo

Just a note, reportedly (from R5), GBR's code of conduct of respect for other athletes in the village http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/8633465/London-2012-Olympics-Team-GB-athletes-to-be-told-to-keep-bedrooms-tidy-under-new-code-of-conduct.html was set by SCW is holding. A 15-point plan. A code which might well have been adhered to by England last year from the captain abrogating his responsibility to curtail the antics particularly in his senior players.

Not everyone agrees. Darren Campbell (of all people) disagrees http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/8633465/London-2012-Olympics-Team-GB-athletes-to-be-told-to-keep-bedrooms-tidy-under-new-code-of-conduct.html . Rings hollow - especially

Certain parts I fully understand. If you’re going to the Olympics for the first time then it’s good to get a sense and a feel of what it’s going to be like and you can give advice on how to not make certain mistakes. But certain rules I’ve read in there I have thought, 'How is that going to make you better?'."
Read more at http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/olympics-2012/9002/2/exclusive-campbell-criticises-woodwards-code-conduct-team-gb#d0f0XkUl8k6EuCAf.99

It's not for you Darren. It's respecting your team-mates! Geddit?

Meanwhile the pool squad are apparently attending the open water event this afternoon open swimming in Hyde Park en-masse. Maybe they are on a three-line whip...

Johnson's attitude was right in principle, his players should have behavied like adults, unfortunately he made a fundamental error and trusted them to behave the way he would himself. They let him down and he compounded his error by not stamping all over them when they forked up.

That said perhaps it was his failure to establishing standards, which Lancs seems to have succeeded in doing that gave players the leave to fool around. I think certain players like Moody and Tindall also let Jonners down and when you have fools like Haskell in the squad inevitably things go square.

SCW over 7 years built one of the best England sides ever his record proves it.But his team of great players had gone by 2004 ,he saw the way the thing was going and got out.He was lucky enough to have a squad of great players to work with which is not true today.At the moment England have a squad of POTENTIALLY great players but they are not there yet.Every Coach since he left
was rubbished because they were`nt instant successes.Robinson and Ashton were both more successful over there first 15 games than SCW and then sacked.Johnson after a lack lustre start had a good season with Toby Flood pulling the strings.Then come the RWC he reverted to SCW safety first methods with Jonny recalled to kick the goals[which did`nt work to well either].The behaviour of some England players was blown upout of all proportions.France and NZ players blew off steam too.Lancaster after relative success as a caretaker,went to SA where both sides were injury weakened.England put up a reasonable performance Lancaster should be allowed an extended run without outside interference.

England put up a reasonable performance Lancaster should be allowed an extended run without outside interference

Emack I think the suggestion is that Woodward should take over Rob Andrew's role which is an administrative role encompassing everything but the first team. Therefore SCW and Lancaster should not be stepping on each others toes at all.

That said perhaps it was his failure to establishing standards, which Lancs seems to have succeeded in doing that gave players the leave to fool around. I think certain players like Moody and Tindall also let Jonners down and when you have fools like Haskell in the squad inevitably things go square.

Few points:
1) generally agree that his players let him down
2) he was hard on players at the start of his reign but was openly criticised in the media
3) Haskell is suing the maid who made the claims straight to the media and never to the police
4) what did Moody do?

What did he do?

Nothing Sam. And that's exactly my point. He was in the bar that fateful night of the disgraceful behaviours. But he sloped off early and did nothing to prevent it escalating.

I wonder if MJ would have done the same as captain?

To be fair I don't think they did much more than get a little drunk and pose for pictures with some little people. Who cares? It was blown out of proportion by the media and mainly because Tindall was caught getting a bit friendly with a blonde lass. Now, Tindall was supposed to be the vice captain, why should be need to be baby sat?

The younger players like Manu, Youngs and Ashton yeah ok, keep an eye on them but Tindall should have known better. He'd just married a royal (even one without a title) and was the most recogniseable member of the squad. Perhaps Johnno went easy on him but perhaps he didn't have a lot of choice with only Hape (who was suddenly out of favour) and Manu (a rookie) as his only other specialist centres.

During the English part of the tournament Manu wore an unauthorised (nothing exactly improper). He jumped ship on the way home to be welcomed no doubt with a hair-drying from Cockers. Maybe SL should have dropped him from the 6Ns squad for a couple of games.

Yeah right, Lancaster watched the first two games whilst Manu was returning from injury and knew exactly what the England midfield needed. What it needed was Manu!

To be fair the gum shield he wore was given to him when he was playing for the England under 20s. Not exactly his fault, it was the one he always wore according to him.

The ship thing was a bit silly. Interesting interview with Louis Deacon last year where he said he blamed himself for not stopping Manu jumping over the side but thought he wouldn't seriously do it.

Portnoy wrote:What did he do?

Nothing Sam. And that's exactly my point. He was in the bar that fateful night of the disgraceful behaviours. But he sloped off early and did nothing to prevent it escalating.

I wonder if MJ would have done the same as captain?

+1 omission to act, worse than MJ in my opinion but then i have heard he has owt between the ears.

And no, MJ as Capt would not have allowed it to happen. Problem MJ has is he had no idea how to handle the press; his manner was often so antagonistic and closed that he became a target for media pundits who often asked him provocative questions because they knew the brow couldn't hide his feelings.

Media drives rugby as much as any walk of life and handling them is a skill that someone as plain speaking and largely morose as MJ was always going to struggle with

haskell may well be suing but he still put himself in a compromising pos which i think tells you a lot about his maturity or lack thereof and feeds a press depserate to do the legs of england on tour, fools across the camp to give them ammunition

Media pressure post 2003 was overwhelming,how many 10`s were spurned because Saint Jonny aka "Sick Note " was injured yet again?Nobody Post SCW was treated fairly not the Players or the Coaches. As the Boks discovered post 1995, 2007 ,winning a RWC is one thing defending it another.Every RWC winning side lost there first up matches Against the All Blacks post RWC[1991 on].Whether SCW would have improved things post 2003 is VERY debateable 2004-5 shows probably not.The treating of Ashton as has been admitted since was shameful.The Media more or less forced Martin Johnson to become Head Coach.Since he had no coaching experience at any level previously a bizarre decision.Certainly at a practical level he could school Forwards drills etc.and a
Joint Coaching role withAshton could have worked.For all the "Teflon kids"his development of youth,age group,and Academy/A sides was well done.
After the RWC debacle there was talk of the RFU being majorly overhauled some work has been done there.But not a lot of it has been revealed how many of the "Blazers " with all the perks involved are still there.SCW as a Managerial Supremo could work he was good at admin etc.Whatever lets hope England will return to there winningways versus all comers.