Bolts nutritionist

First topic message reminder :

Bolt reportedly has been working with Angel Hernandez, too. Hernandez used to be called Angel Heredia, back when he was a chemist for BALCO and later “Source A,” who supplied the documents that helped convict Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, C.J. Hunter and Justin Gatlin. Gatlin just took bronze in the 100, behind Bolt and Blake.

Before the games in Beijing, Heredia told Germany’s Der Spiegel that, regarding the 100-meter final, “the winner will not be clean. Not even any of the contestants will be clean. There is no doubt about it, the difference between 10.0 and 9.7 seconds is the drugs.”

Interesting story. Bolt has hooked up with a past BALCO member who thought the winner of the 100m would be on drugs.

djlovesyou wrote:British cycling team enjoy sunshine and yams. It's the secret for a great performance.

Nothing sketchy about a small team all running quicker than all the biggest doping dopers in history because when the biggest doping dopers were running, sunshine and yams weren't invented yet.

The big technological breakthrough of modern day sunshine and yams that occured just prior to the Beijing Olympics is the biggest factor in the incredible rise of both the team of Jamaican sprinters and the British cyclists.

Well done Dj but your forgot about Breadfruit. You can't have a small group of four Jamaicans owning six of the fastest times ever without Breadfruit.

azania wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Maybe azania. Maybe. The logic isn't completely with you but for now, I'll just let it lie.

Oh it is with me fly. What you guys have failed to provide is anything beyond housewife gossip. "The JA are fast so they must be doping".

For a 12 year period in the 1970-80s the Windies produced some of the best fast bowlers in history and a few of the best batsmen. Such things happen especially when there is a sporting tradition there.

"Team GB are fast at cycling but they are clean".

dkj

Some people are convinced that the jamaicans are doping and nothing will change that.

I can run with that, but what is silly is that their evidence is pure gossip. I wouldn't mind if it was intelligent gossip.

I didn't offer any gossip, housewive's or otherwise. I put questions to you and attempted to sort through areas where logic seems to desert the arguments. I'm me - I'm not them and that means I'm not 'you guys' anything. Questions and queries, that's all I offer. Legitimate debate, it's called.

As soon as you suggested or even implied that you're not 100% certain in the cleanliness of the Jamaicans, you became one of 'us guys'.

One of us, one of us, one of us.

Crimey wrote:Right guys, can you quit with the accusations of drug use. Not only are people finding it irritating, therefore crushing other more meritable discussion, it can actually land a site like ours in legal trouble because of the nature of libel/slander.

It can't land you in legal trouble. Suggesting that there is a chance that a sprinter has taken PEDs is a perfectly reasonable statement to make, that's not libel/slander whether it's true or not.

Saying that I saw XXX sprinter inject himself with XXX a week last tuesday in Primark. Now, that could cause trouble.

djlovesyou wrote:

Crimey wrote:Right guys, can you quit with the accusations of drug use. Not only are people finding it irritating, therefore crushing other more meritable discussion, it can actually land a site like ours in legal trouble because of the nature of libel/slander.

It can't land you in legal trouble. Suggesting that there is a chance that a sprinter has taken PEDs is a perfectly reasonable statement to make, that's not libel/slander whether it's true or not.

Saying that I saw XXX sprinter inject himself with XXX a week last tuesday in Primark. Now, that could cause trouble.

Let's just err on the side of caution. Sites have been shut down for less.

Citation please.

djlovesyou wrote:Citation please.

Or you could just not be a Tinkywinky about it?

Even if you don't believe it can get the site into trouble, the Athletics side of the board should not devolve into accusations of drug use, it's not why it's here, and it's a discussion that has been done over and over again. Please just try and cut it out and discuss things with more merit.

We've got to pretend it's not happening?

djlovesyou wrote:We've got to pretend it's not happening?

No, just don't throw accusations around that have no substance. Other people seemed to have grasped the point.

I can run with that, but what is silly is that their evidence is pure gossip. I wouldn't mind if it was intelligent gossip.
-------------

It is intelligent gossip. Meteoric rise plus inadequate Jamaican testing plus many failed tests (including Blake) a few years ago = intelligent gossip.

There was no evidence on Flo Jo. She failed less drug tests than Yohan Blake has anyway.

It's more the tedium of having multiple threads of the same people parroting the same arguments. You all know each others' positions and you know you're not going to convince each other. So how's about drawing a line under it and moving on to discussing something new until such time as someone actually has some new information to contribute on this topic. Honestly, it's getting worse than listening to the my Dad's bigger than your Dad bickering matches the English and Welsh rugby fans have (As a New Zealander I really see the point of those, because in rugby terms my Dad's bigger than both of theirs put together )

Seriously, some of you could just be copying and pasting the same paragraphs into each comment you make, each time.

Anyone involved in athletics know that these 'accusations' are far from having 'no substance'.

I guess that's the problem with this board since the admins had a hissy fit and drove all the actual athletics people away.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:It's more the tedium of having multiple threads of the same people parroting the same arguments. You all know each others' positions and you know you're not going to convince each other. So how's about drawing a line under it and moving on to discussing something new until such time as someone actually has some new information to contribute on this topic. Honestly, it's getting worse than listening to the my Dad's bigger than your Dad bickering matches the English and Welsh rugby fans have (As a New Zealander I really see the point of those, because in rugby terms my Dad's bigger than both of theirs put together )

Seriously, some of you could just be copying and pasting the same paragraphs into each comment you make, each time.

OK but please lock the thread before Az has his say. He likes the last word all the time it makes him feel like he's won when he hasn't!

Super D Boon wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:It's more the tedium of having multiple threads of the same people parroting the same arguments. You all know each others' positions and you know you're not going to convince each other. So how's about drawing a line under it and moving on to discussing something new until such time as someone actually has some new information to contribute on this topic. Honestly, it's getting worse than listening to the my Dad's bigger than your Dad bickering matches the English and Welsh rugby fans have (As a New Zealander I really see the point of those, because in rugby terms my Dad's bigger than both of theirs put together )

Seriously, some of you could just be copying and pasting the same paragraphs into each comment you make, each time.

OK but please lock the thread before Az has his say. He likes the last word all the time it makes him feel like he's won when he hasn't!

Did no-one notice how I locked the last thread after I'd had the last word

He did give it the old 'So glad you've come along admins, all these terrible people were saying such bad things and I was being such a good boy'.

I have noticed one thing though, while he's kept busy on the odd thread over here, he tends to behave better in the boxing forum.

Maybe you should just keep one of these slow burning Bolt threads up to soak up a bit of the crazy.

Yeah but Azania was last but one....

Anyway..........so on to Gemili.

Will has lack of height be a factor in whether he can run faster or not?

djlovesyou wrote:He did give it the old 'So glad you've come along admins, all these terrible people were saying such bad things and I was being such a good boy'.

I have noticed one thing though, while he's kept busy on the odd thread over here, he tends to behave better in the boxing forum.
Maybe you should just keep one of these slow burning Bolt threads up to soak up a bit of the crazy.

um.........many on that forum would beg to differ I'm sure! He gets in plenty of scrapes on there too. My personal favourite is his idea that David Haye's record at Heavyweight is just as good as Wladimir Klitschko's. That was his finest hour when he came out with that one!

How tall is he? He's officially down as 5'5", but I (almost literally) bumped into him in London and he didn't seem that small to me.

Super D Boon wrote:

djlovesyou wrote:He did give it the old 'So glad you've come along admins, all these terrible people were saying such bad things and I was being such a good boy'.

I have noticed one thing though, while he's kept busy on the odd thread over here, he tends to behave better in the boxing forum.
Maybe you should just keep one of these slow burning Bolt threads up to soak up a bit of the crazy.

um.........many on that forum would beg to differ I'm sure! He gets in plenty of scrapes on there too. My personal favourite is his idea that David Haye's record at Heavyweight is just as good as Wladimir Klitschko's. That was his finest hour when he came out with that one!

Better than Audley beating Marciano??

His back-pedal on that was a thing of beauty...

Super D Boon wrote:

um.........many on that forum would beg to differ I'm sure! He gets in plenty of scrapes on there too. My personal favourite is his idea that David Haye's record at Heavyweight is just as good as Wladimir Klitschko's. That was his finest hour when he came out with that one!

Well, I don't know, I just noticed that he seemed rational for a while a couple of weeks ago, and then once that last thread was shut down he seemed to go off the rails a little and nearly get himself banned within about half an hour. Maybe just a coincidence.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

djlovesyou wrote:He did give it the old 'So glad you've come along admins, all these terrible people were saying such bad things and I was being such a good boy'.

I have noticed one thing though, while he's kept busy on the odd thread over here, he tends to behave better in the boxing forum.
Maybe you should just keep one of these slow burning Bolt threads up to soak up a bit of the crazy.

um.........many on that forum would beg to differ I'm sure! He gets in plenty of scrapes on there too. My personal favourite is his idea that David Haye's record at Heavyweight is just as good as Wladimir Klitschko's. That was his finest hour when he came out with that one!

Better than Audley beating Marciano??

His back-pedal on that was a thing of beauty...

Damn it! I must have been on holidays when he did that!

Yeah I was basing it on Gemili being 5ft 5ins. Perhaps he's bigger in reality. He seems quite an old 18 so wouldn't put a huge amount of money on him getting much better but only time will tell I guess.

Super D Boon wrote:Yeah I was basing it on Gemili being 5ft 5ins. Perhaps he's bigger in reality. He seems quite an old 18 so wouldn't put a huge amount of money on him getting much better but only time will tell I guess.

He's never going to go that much faster, I reckon he'll end up with a PB of around 9.96 or something like that.

It's only his second season of athletics, so he might be an old 18 year old but he's fairly young in terms of athletics, but in sprinting that's not always a huge deal. (He kinda proves my point that years of training are not really required as sprinting is on the whole a natural talent.)

"meritable discussion?"..........................

.... that bad word that we dare speak of - drugs - is a valid and meritable discussion if people feel their use is harming the sports discussed.

Yes, this site has rules and controls its own environment - I accept that as reasonable. But that's what they are - rules - as in "Guys, if you keep up this chat on drugs, I'll close this thread down" But don't varnish a command by deciding for us what it 'meritable discussion'.

End of my contribution to this meritable thread

"I just said that given someone like Bradley Wiggins would be blood tested more times during one race than the entire Jamaican sprint team do in one year"

DJ

Source please?

You seem to be an intelligent man (unlike some on here). You need to do better than making wild speculations, you will lose credibility.

Regarding the blood test - it is the same blood test the athletes undergo at the olympics and all previous major championship in the last few years. I remember Asafa saying that they drew blood so many times testing during London

DJ: It was you who also say that the dopers are miles ahead of the testers. So less assume that Wiggins is tested more than the Jamaicans - if he is doping he wont get caught because the dopers are way ahead of the testers.

do you see my point.

You all say that the IAAF/Sponsers etc is colluding becasue bolt is big business, but cycling is also big business so there could be collussion there as well.

Just saying what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Let us have some objectivity here guys.

Some of you remind of the Tea partiers ... the extreme wing of the GOP.

"End of my contribution to this meritable thread"

I will be joining you as well.

I think the MODS should censor these threads.

At least over on the cricket thread there is intelligent and objective discussion.

That Asafa thing was funny. They take about 10ml of blood or something like that. He claimed he was going to be 'weak' for the final.

There is trouble in cycling, the UCI have had issues with covered up failed drug tests, cycling used to be as corrupt and dirty as athletics is now, it's still not great. Nobody has ever said that cycling is fine, or even that the British cycling team are definitely clean.

The Wiggins thing won't be far off being right, even with pre-competition testing. He would have been tested 15-20 times during the TDF.

The Tea Party stand for a dramatic reduction in the power of the central government in the US and the reduction of national debt? Is that what you're suggesting we stand for, or are you trying to say something else? I've never really understood your accusations of people being like the 'Tea Party'.

SecretFly wrote:

azania wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Maybe azania. Maybe. The logic isn't completely with you but for now, I'll just let it lie.

Oh it is with me fly. What you guys have failed to provide is anything beyond housewife gossip. "The JA are fast so they must be doping".

For a 12 year period in the 1970-80s the Windies produced some of the best fast bowlers in history and a few of the best batsmen. Such things happen especially when there is a sporting tradition there.

"Team GB are fast at cycling but they are clean".

dkj

Some people are convinced that the jamaicans are doping and nothing will change that.

I can run with that, but what is silly is that their evidence is pure gossip. I wouldn't mind if it was intelligent gossip.

I didn't offer any gossip, housewive's or otherwise. I put questions to you and attempted to sort through areas where logic seems to desert the arguments. I'm me - I'm not them and that means I'm not 'you guys' anything. Questions and queries, that's all I offer. Legitimate debate, it's called.

Apologies.

A simple question. Other than wild gossip and baseless innuendo, what evidence is there that the JA sprinters are juicing. DKJ has blown apart the accusation that the JA testing is poor.

The only point people use is that they run fast and for such a small country, it shouldn't happen. Look at their top gus.

Bolt - massive talent and everyone who knew about sprinting knew that at aged 15, he would be special.
Powell - A world beater (minus mentality) for the past 8 years.
Blake - now this is the stick used to beat JA sprinters with. His size and build lead many to say he's juicing plus he has been banned once before. Well at 17 he ran 10.07. He was also a massive talent and by any recognition an extremely hard worker. People point to his 200m time and ask where that came from. The BBC at the last DL meeting discussed this very topic about the 19.28. They said that the track is the favourite for 200m runners because of the wide bends and very hard surface. The bends are wider than normal tracks and lends itself to very fast times. Plus he had the ideal wind behind him. Perfect conditions and perfect track.

Plus his running style also. He may be short, but he has a very wide stride which eats up the ground.

He was banned once before so is sus, Rubbish. He was banned for taking an over the counter med. He got 3 months. Steroid users are banned for 2 years. Now why would he risk his career by jumping from over the counter stuff which I believe he innocently took to taking steroids? Unless he is very stupid (like Gatlin who is borderline ESN apparently) which I doubt he is.

Plus all the JAmaican sprinters who have been caught trained outside JA.

I have read incredibly stupid arguments put forward and the one that takes the biscuit is that the IAAF are currupt because no JA sprinter has been banned for drug taking. I mean, come on. Lets have some serious debate and not conspiracy theories that would make those who believe that 911 was planned by Bush blush with jealousy.

And please no Women Institute type gossip also.

Super D Boon wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

djlovesyou wrote:He did give it the old 'So glad you've come along admins, all these terrible people were saying such bad things and I was being such a good boy'.

I have noticed one thing though, while he's kept busy on the odd thread over here, he tends to behave better in the boxing forum.
Maybe you should just keep one of these slow burning Bolt threads up to soak up a bit of the crazy.

um.........many on that forum would beg to differ I'm sure! He gets in plenty of scrapes on there too. My personal favourite is his idea that David Haye's record at Heavyweight is just as good as Wladimir Klitschko's. That was his finest hour when he came out with that one!

Better than Audley beating Marciano??

His back-pedal on that was a thing of beauty...

Damn it! I must have been on holidays when he did that!

I also said that Sibson would beat Harry Greb.

djlovesyou wrote:He did give it the old 'So glad you've come along admins, all these terrible people were saying such bad things and I was being such a good boy'.

I have noticed one thing though, while he's kept busy on the odd thread over here, he tends to behave better in the boxing forum.

Maybe you should just keep one of these slow burning Bolt threads up to soak up a bit of the crazy.

What on earth are you prattling on about again dj?

FYI I've been banned many times from the boxing forum. But more importantly lets debate the OP and not one another. Cool?

djlovesyou wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

um.........many on that forum would beg to differ I'm sure! He gets in plenty of scrapes on there too. My personal favourite is his idea that David Haye's record at Heavyweight is just as good as Wladimir Klitschko's. That was his finest hour when he came out with that one!

Well, I don't know, I just noticed that he seemed rational for a while a couple of weeks ago, and then once that last thread was shut down he seemed to go off the rails a little and nearly get himself banned within about half an hour. Maybe just a coincidence.

Pure coincidence.

Now lets talk the OP.

Jamaica does not have a national anti-doping agency that tests its athletes on a regular basis like many other countries. How comes djk has blown the argument out of the water? The Jamaicans tried to introduce random drug testing and busted Yohan Blake three years ago so probably thought better of it since then.

djlovesyou wrote:That Asafa thing was funny. They take about 10ml of blood or something like that. He claimed he was going to be 'weak' for the final.

There is trouble in cycling, the UCI have had issues with covered up failed drug tests, cycling used to be as corrupt and dirty as athletics is now, it's still not great. Nobody has ever said that cycling is fine, or even that the British cycling team are definitely clean.

The Wiggins thing won't be far off being right, even with pre-competition testing. He would have been tested 15-20 times during the TDF.

The Tea Party stand for a dramatic reduction in the power of the central government in the US and the reduction of national debt? Is that what you're suggesting we stand for, or are you trying to say something else? I've never really understood your accusations of people being like the 'Tea Party'.

Its about the mentality. It he believes it will make him weak, then it will affect him mentally. Wouldn't make any difference though seeing as its Powell.

Manny Pac said the same thing after a loss to Erik Morales. He said that drwaing blood made him weaker come fight time. He also said he was scared of needles when asked for random blood testing. But with tats all over him I have my doubts about that reason.

Super D Boon wrote:Jamaica does not have a national anti-doping agency that tests its athletes on a regular basis like many other countries. How comes djk has blown the argument out of the water? The Jamaicans tried to introduce random drug testing and busted Yohan Blake three years ago so probably thought better of it since then.

The IAAF have given them accreditation so they are up to the correct standard as ordered by the IAAF. That led to conspiracy theories of collusion and corruption within the IAAF.

Probably thought better of it since? I probably think you're making things up now.

Super D Boon wrote:Yeah I was basing it on Gemili being 5ft 5ins. Perhaps he's bigger in reality. He seems quite an old 18 so wouldn't put a huge amount of money on him getting much better but only time will tell I guess.

He will break 10s next year and probably hold the UK record in 3 years time. Rio finalist imo. With the right backing and diet which only Europe and USA can provide in abundance, he could be in the hunt for a medal.

I will saythat I am dubious about Mo. I mean this guy has no previous but is a world champ and double olympic champ. He was also an also ran. His training partner is also dodgy.

My source is the minutes from the Women's Institute AGM.

azania wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:Jamaica does not have a national anti-doping agency that tests its athletes on a regular basis like many other countries. How comes djk has blown the argument out of the water? The Jamaicans tried to introduce random drug testing and busted Yohan Blake three years ago so probably thought better of it since then.

The IAAF have given them accreditation so they are up to the correct standard as ordered by the IAAF. That led to conspiracy theories of collusion and corruption within the IAAF.

Probably thought better of it since? I probably think you're making things up now.

Look, Conte, Pound say so and even emminent professors of Oxford say that anti-doping has failed and athletes everywhere especially in the sprints are doped up to the eyeballs and here you have yourself as a clown saying that only US based and Euro based athletes dope and the pure Jamaicans are clean and it's all yam and breadfruit. You ought to listen to yourself, you take a lot of satisfaction from your delusions.

When Lance Armstrong can only be brought down by a million and one testimonoies and no failed doping tests it makes most sane people realise that anti-doping has failed and so even if the Jamaicans keep passing tests it means nothing.

azania wrote:I will saythat I am dubious about Mo. I mean this guy has no previous but is a world champ and double olympic champ. He was also an also ran. His training partner is also dodgy.

My source is the minutes from the Women's Institute AGM.

The Women's Institute do a lot of very good works for charity and shouldn't be besmirched in an article about doping. Besides, they're anti doping procedures are probably a lot more effective than the Jamaicans

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:Jamaica does not have a national anti-doping agency that tests its athletes on a regular basis like many other countries. How comes djk has blown the argument out of the water? The Jamaicans tried to introduce random drug testing and busted Yohan Blake three years ago so probably thought better of it since then.

The IAAF have given them accreditation so they are up to the correct standard as ordered by the IAAF. That led to conspiracy theories of collusion and corruption within the IAAF.

Probably thought better of it since? I probably think you're making things up now.

Look, Conte, Pound say so and even emminent professors of Oxford say that anti-doping has failed and athletes everywhere especially in the sprints are doped up to the eyeballs and here you have yourself as a clown saying that only US based and Euro based athletes dope and the pure Jamaicans are clean and it's all yam and breadfruit. You ought to listen to yourself, you take a lot of satisfaction from your delusions.

When Lance Armstrong can only be brought down by a million and one testimonoies and no failed doping tests it makes most sane people realise that anti-doping has failed and so even if the Jamaicans keep passing tests it means nothing.

Conte is still trying to find legitimacy. Him and Pound have made claims without so much as evidence to show for it. With FloJo there were loud whispers. Screams indeed with people saying they had seen her doping. Plus with USA being a lawyer mad country, no threat of legal action was made. Her physique altered and her voice changed to a more masculine one. If you ever heard a female bodybuilder talk you will notice the similarities. Plus as soon as random testing was introduced, she retired.

With the JA sprinters, its sources who will not identify themselves making assumptions and telling outright lies.

Simeon Williamson (after running 10.03) went to train with Powell's team in JA. He was described as lazy. Simeon said he worked hard and was his best ever training camp.

Has Conte said the JA sprinters were dirty? No. Has he named anyone? No. How does he know 70% are dirty. If he knows they are dirty, he must know what they are taking to make them dirty. He can claim undetectable drugs. What are they. Tell the testers what these undetectable drugs are and make them detectable. Other than that he's a liar. You accuse Blake because he's been banned before. Well Conte is a proven liar. Once a liar always a liar and all that. Why take the word of a proven liar and someone with an axe to grind.

Yam, ital food, breadfruit, dashin and chicken nuggets is the secret it seems.

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:I will saythat I am dubious about Mo. I mean this guy has no previous but is a world champ and double olympic champ. He was also an also ran. His training partner is also dodgy.

My source is the minutes from the Women's Institute AGM.

The Women's Institute do a lot of very good works for charity and shouldn't be besmirched in an article about doping. Besides, they're anti doping procedures are probably a lot more effective than the Jamaicans

What is wrong with JADCO? They are fully accredited with the IAAF. Unless you also believe the IAAF are in cahoots with JA to be permitted to drug their sprinters. Which is it?

You laugh at me yet you believe the JA team are juicing without so much as proof. Do you believe the moon landings were fake and 911 was organised by the US authorities as part of their Project for the New American Century?

I remember having these discussions with Lance Armstrong fanboys to be honest.

No evidence, all a conspiracy, tin foil hats, only hating on him because he wins, jealous French, blah blah blah.

Hopefully in a few years we'll see.

djlovesyou wrote:I remember having these discussions with Lance Armstrong fanboys to be honest.

No evidence, all a conspiracy, tin foil hats, only hating on him because he wins, jealous French, blah blah blah.

Hopefully in a few years we'll see.

Te difference is that you had people coming forward and naming him. Who has come forward naming any JA sprinter. Some obscure website claiming that Bolt knows a man who knows Hereda.

If you cannot see the difference between the Armstrong case and Jamaica then you are deliberately being dishonest with yourself.

azania wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:I will saythat I am dubious about Mo. I mean this guy has no previous but is a world champ and double olympic champ. He was also an also ran. His training partner is also dodgy.

My source is the minutes from the Women's Institute AGM.

The Women's Institute do a lot of very good works for charity and shouldn't be besmirched in an article about doping. Besides, they're anti doping procedures are probably a lot more effective than the Jamaicans

What is wrong with JADCO? They are fully accredited with the IAAF. Unless you also believe the IAAF are in cahoots with JA to be permitted to drug their sprinters. Which is it?

You laugh at me yet you believe the JA team are juicing without so much as proof. Do you believe the moon landings were fake and 911 was organised by the US authorities as part of their Project for the New American Century?

JADCO are only recently accredited, prior to that didn't have a OOC testing system before Beijing and shortly after they put one in place they busted a few guys including Yohan Blake. You put a great deal of importance on the Jamaicans not failing drugs tests but when it's pointed out that Blake failed a test you write it off as unimportant as it was "over the counter stuff" so it therefore doesn't count so you change the goal posts to suit your argument. Besides, JADCO may now be "compliant" but are they effective? A system that's been in place for around four years that is all. I know from my line of work that being compliant means ticking boxes, it doesn't mean it's any good.

You see the other the problem with you is this obsession with proof. That's all well and good but then you've pretty much castigated Flo Jo with her "Barry White voice" as you put it yet there's no evidence or proof she ever juiced either. This shows you as having double standards.

azania wrote:

Te difference is that you had people coming forward and naming him. Who has come forward naming any JA sprinter. Some obscure website claiming that Bolt knows a man who knows Hereda.

If you cannot see the difference between the Armstrong case and Jamaica then you are deliberately being dishonest with yourself.

I'm not talking about the Armstrong case now, I'm talking about the Armstrong case a number of years ago.

Before anyone came forward it was pretty obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense. There are a lot of parallels.

Conte is still trying to find legitimacy.

He is hugely legitimate. He now (supposedly legitimately) works with various athletes including Andre Ward who I know you rate very highly. Nothing illegitimate in that.

Him and Pound have made claims without so much as evidence to show for it.

Maybe, but they both have enormous knowledge of doping and anti-doping so you'd have to give some credence to their claims given such a collective depth of knowledge.

[With FloJo there were loud whispers. Screams indeed with people saying they had seen her doping. Plus with USA being a lawyer mad country, no threat of legal action was made.

This is just your interpretation of events and cannot be passed off as facts. "Loud whispers" or "screams" of her doping do not constitute proof of doping.

Her physique altered and her voice changed to a more masculine one. If you ever heard a female bodybuilder talk you will notice the similarities. Plus as soon as random testing was introduced, she retired.

Her physique changed through hard work though? Blake looks like he has muscles on his muscles yet this is down to sheer hard work so why not Flo Jo? What's to say another factor, possibly a medical condition didn't constitute her change of voice? She retired having won multiple gold medals in the Seoul Olympics and may have felt she had nothing more to achieve. She went on to star in Japanese films and cash in on her huge popularity in Japan. It could be argued that her retirement prior to random testing was purely coincidental.

With the JA sprinters, its sources who will not identify themselves making assumptions and telling outright lies.

How do you know they are outright lies? Do you see the Jamaican sprinters day in day out? Do you know them personally? Do you have access to their training regimes and diets?

"The Tea Party stand for a dramatic reduction in the power of the central government in the US and the reduction of national debt? Is that what you're suggesting we stand for, or are you trying to say something else? I've never really understood your accusations of people being like the 'Tea Party'"

DJ

I am sure you are well read, but that just one aspect of the TP. Have you listen to some of their other comments, I am sure you are aware that they are a looney and irrational fringe stiffled by ignorance, bias and devoid of all rational thinking. Not part of the mainstream at all - almost simillar to the BNP in the UK.

What I am saying is that some of you and your fellow conspirators thinking is not part of the mainstream school of thought. Just like the T-baggers in the US.

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

azania wrote:I will saythat I am dubious about Mo. I mean this guy has no previous but is a world champ and double olympic champ. He was also an also ran. His training partner is also dodgy.

My source is the minutes from the Women's Institute AGM.

The Women's Institute do a lot of very good works for charity and shouldn't be besmirched in an article about doping. Besides, they're anti doping procedures are probably a lot more effective than the Jamaicans

What is wrong with JADCO? They are fully accredited with the IAAF. Unless you also believe the IAAF are in cahoots with JA to be permitted to drug their sprinters. Which is it?

You laugh at me yet you believe the JA team are juicing without so much as proof. Do you believe the moon landings were fake and 911 was organised by the US authorities as part of their Project for the New American Century?

JADCO are only recently accredited, prior to that didn't have a OOC testing system before Beijing and shortly after they put one in place they busted a few guys including Yohan Blake. You put a great deal of importance on the Jamaicans not failing drugs tests but when it's pointed out that Blake failed a test you write it off as unimportant as it was "over the counter stuff" so it therefore doesn't count so you change the goal posts to suit your argument. Besides, JADCO may now be "compliant" but are they effective? A system that's been in place for around four years that is all. I know from my line of work that being compliant means ticking boxes, it doesn't mean it's any good.

You see the other the problem with you is this obsession with proof. That's all well and good but then you've pretty much castigated Flo Jo with her "Barry White voice" as you put it yet there's no evidence or proof she ever juiced either. This shows you as having double standards.

How recent is recent in your opinion. Are you suggesting that prior to Beijing no JA sprinter was tested?

As for Blake, I have said all along that no JA trained sprinter has been banned for STEROIDS. You may as well call Alan Baxter a juicer for being caught with Sinex in his system. That comical error caused him his Olympic Bronze and yes you are correct, I don't place much emphasis on that or call Baxter a cheat despite him being banned and stripped of his medal. Would you?

JADCO are compliant and effective. They caught and banned Mullings.....one of their fastest sprinters. How more effective do you want them to be? In my line of work, being compliant means more than ticking boxes. It actually means being compliant. The consequences for non compliancy are severe.

The issue of FloJo is not so much that she failed drug tests, but that the circumstantial evidence of her doping are very clear. With the JA its gossip and figures without evidence. FloJo actually physically changed in appearance and her voice. Now if you see and hear female bodybuilders or juicers you will see and hear the similarities. Plus other athletes (Joachim Cruz for one) calling her out. Mel Latternay (spelling) also said the same about her and Lewis.

djlovesyou wrote:

azania wrote:

Te difference is that you had people coming forward and naming him. Who has come forward naming any JA sprinter. Some obscure website claiming that Bolt knows a man who knows Hereda.

If you cannot see the difference between the Armstrong case and Jamaica then you are deliberately being dishonest with yourself.

I'm not talking about the Armstrong case now, I'm talking about the Armstrong case a number of years ago.

Before anyone came forward it was pretty obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense. There are a lot of parallels.

I'm not talking about now either. Over the years many cyclists have been calling out Lance. In fact the French cycling body actually accused him of juicing over 5 years ago. They were accused of being jealous and anti American.

No parallels.