The Official *England to World Twenty-20 Glory* Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

"What is our aim?... Victory... Victory at all costs. Victory in spite of all terror. Victory, however long and hard the road may be. For without victory, there is no survival."
Sir Winston Churchill

So in just over 2 weeks time, on Friday September 21, England will begin their quest to defend their World T20 Crown in Sri Lanka, just 2 years after winning the trophy in the Caribbean.

"This England never did, nor never shall, Lie at the proud foot of a conqueror."
William Shakespeare

The preparations will begin with a 3 match T20 Series at home to the Saffers, win that series and England will become the No.1 T20 Side in the World. From there, England will fly off to Sri Lanka and have 2 warm-up games against Australia and Pakistan in Colombo.

"Let not England forget her precedence of teaching nations how to live."
John Milton

After that, the tournament will finally begin. In England's pool are Afghanistan and India. Afghanistan will be mercilessly thrashed, and India will be beaten soundly to once again prove that they and the IPL are overrated.

"Only the Englishman is the pinnacle of perfection and nature’s masterpiece."
Riem

Then the Super Eight phase will start. If it goes the way it should, the West Indies (one man team), South Africa (never good at tournaments or T20s) and New Zealand (whipping boys) will all be in the Super Eight Group with England. Of course, none of them will be able to compete with the might of England and will be brushed aside.

"The world still consists of two clearly divided groups; the English and the foreigners. One group consists of less than 50 million people; the other of 3,950 million people. The latter group does not really count."
George Mikes

Then a probable semi-final against the Aussies, a good test before the Final but, ultimately, an England win. England will then march into the final at Colombo - I think against the Sri Lankans but never rule out Pakistan - and give a dominant display to cement England's back-to-back titles. And remember lads:

"England expects that every man will do his duty."
Lord Admiral Horatio Nelson

[jimbohammers]

Briggs is very effective in the FL t20 where opposition teams view him as a threat. But I can see some batsmen deciding to go after him here, and I'm not sure he's quite good enough yet to react to that if the batsman starts going big.

That is one of his strengths, he is a very clever bowler and outwits the batsmen, ive seen him do it many times. When batsmen try to target him, it normally follows with a wicket

[Duty281]

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,

If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
Joseph Rudyard Kipling

[Hibbz]

Now here's a little story
To tell it is a must
About an unsung hero
That moves away your dust
Some people make a fortune
Other's earn a mint
My old man don't earn much
In fact....he's flippin'.....skint

Oh, my old man's a dustman
He wears a dustman's hat
He wears cor blimey trousers
And he lives in a council flat
He looks a proper narner
In his great big hob nailed boots
He's got such a job to pull em up
That he calls them daisy roots

Some folks give tips at Christmas
And some of them forget
So when he picks their bins up
He spills some on the steps
Now one old man got nasty
And to the council wrote
Next time my old man went 'round there
He punched him up the throat

Oh, my old man's a dustman
He wears a dustman's hat
He wears cor blimey trousers
And he lives in a council flat

I say, I say Duncan
I 'er...I found a police dog in my dustbin
(How do you know he's a police dog)
He had a policeman with him

Though my old man's a dustman
He's got a heart of gold
He got married recently
Though he's 86 years old
We said 'Ear! Hang on Dad
you're getting past your prime'
He said 'Well when you get to my age'
'It helps to pass the time'

Oh, my old man's a dustman
He wears a dustman's hat
He wears cor blimey trousers
And he lives in a council flat

I say, I say, I say
My dustbins full of lillies
(Well throw 'em away then)
I can't Lilly's wearing them

Now one day while in a hurry
He missed a lady's bin
He hadn't gone but a few yards
When she chased after him
'What game do you think you're playing'
She cried right from the heart
'You've missed me...am I too late'
'No... jump up on the cart'

Oh, my old man's a dustman
He wears a dustman's hat
He wears cor blimey trousers
And he lives in a council flat

I say, I say, I say (What you again)
My dustbin's absolutely full with toadstools
(How do you know it's full)
'Cos there's not much room inside

He found a tiger's head one day
Nailed to a piece of wood
The tiger looked quite miserable
But I suppose it should
Just then from out a window
A voice began to wail
He said (Oi! Where's me tiger head)
Four foot from it's tail

Oh, my old man's a dustman
He wears a dustman's hat
He wears cor blimey trousers
And he lives in a council flat
Next time you see a dustman
Looking all pale and sad
Don't kick him in the dustbin
It might be my old dad

LONNIE DONEGAN

[JDizzle]

Shane Warne is an Aussie
He wears a baggy cap
He's got a Nike earing
He looks an Aussie prat
He's got his little flipper
He's got his box of tricks
But when he bowls to Freddie
He gets knocked for six.

Shane Warne is a druggie
He should be in rehab
He took his mummy's little pill
To try and lose the flab
He took it to lose weight
From all the pies and beer
But when the ICC found out
He got banned for a year

The Barmy Army

[Pal Joey]

You Poms must really love our Warnie!

[Duty281]

And the Glory run starts for the Champions with a massive 116 run win which puts England in the Super Eights. Roll on Sunday where we can give the Indians a battering.

[Duty281]

Bit confused with the Indian keyboard warriors, on websites like Cricinfo and the India Cricket Forum. They never miss an opportunity to slate England and now, with a game coming up tomorrow against England, those keyboard warriors are calling it a 'glorified warm-up match'. I think they're worried. And so they should be. Come on England!

Spoiler:

[Mad for Chelsea]

well it may "only" have been Afghanistan, but England were mightily impressive. Their batting was spot on, their bowling ferocious up front, their fielding really excellent. Real marker I feel.

[Mike Selig]

As I said on the other thread it was not only impressive, it was coherent - alongside South Africa England have been the one team with a clear gameplan (unless you call "over to you Brendan" a game plan - I don't) and to have been able to execute it well.

Of course it's only Afghanistan, and India will be a good test, but at these early stages it's been the best performance so far. Afghanistan have played better than Zimbabwe for me.

[mystiroakey]

I suppose the only thing tyo take from the afgan game is that England are a team that can actually decimate a minnow. Something that isnt normally within our make up. Allways a fighting team against the best teams however sometimes it really doesnt matter who we play. We can(in all sports) make the supposedly easy games look very hard.

But I allways new we were one of the favs for this event so I am not suprised at all. I want a good win v india today then I will nbe happy

[Duty281]

After India have given us a tonking, perhaps it is fortunate that we can write this game off and consign it to the history books. We're only 5 games from glory, so let's make the Great Escape.

[Mike Selig]

Let's take some positives!

Kieswetter played himself into some form.

I thought Kieswetter kept pretty well. That was a tough stumping chance he missed but otherwise he made some good stops and was tidy.

Buttler and Hales combining for that catch.

[JDizzle]

We also have more points at this stage of the tournament than we did in 2010... Clutching at straws?

[Corporalhumblebucket]

As I said on the other thread it was not only impressive, it was coherent - alongside South Africa England have been the one team with a clear gameplan (unless you call "over to you Brendan" a game plan - I don't) and to have been able to execute it well.

Game plan again applied very consistently today against India. This time it was a different plan - all the batsmen to get out as quickly as possible

[Mike Selig]

As I said on the other thread it was not only impressive, it was coherent - alongside South Africa England have been the one team with a clear gameplan (unless you call "over to you Brendan" a game plan - I don't) and to have been able to execute it well.

Game plan again applied very consistently today against India. This time it was a different plan - all the batsmen to get out as quickly as possible

Yes. That comment does seem a bit silly now, but it was true at the time of writing.

As far as I could tell the gameplan today was to completely ignore the gameplan which has been used successfully recently. So try to hit every ball in the first 5 overs for 4 or 6, if possible accross the line rather than straight. Then when the spinners come on, pretend that you're playing netball so not allowed to move, play out some dot balls then attempt a massive heave-ho sweep.

[Mad for Chelsea]

I think it was a ploy to make India think Harbajan and Chawla are actually useful bowlers

woeful from England with the bat, not sure why no one wants to move their feet to spin (or even play straight).

Kieswetter finding some form the only positive from the batting perspective, but I still think England have a good chance. The positives from the first game haven't simply vanished, they just need to remember everything they did well there.

Just a collective brain freeze today I thought, maybe playing a "dead rubber" meant the players weren't properly focussed, but as Mike says there were way too many big shots in the PP, and way way too many dot balls in general.

[liverbnz]

It may have been a dead rubber, but if England have to chase 150+ again in this tournament I can't see them doing it. If they lose 2/3 quickly there doesn't seem to be anyone there who'll sit and rebuild. Too much inexperience in that batting line-up for me. We'll have new World T20 champions in a few weeks.

[Shelsey93]

If they lose 2/3 quickly there doesn't seem to be anyone there who'll sit and rebuild.

Across all formats over the last year we've struggled to win matches from behind (i.e. when we lose wickets early (as can happen)). A 'fearless' approach was key to our success in 2010 and I think its that that can deliver the title again. But 'fearlessness' is not 'recklessness' and after getting the balance right v Afghanistan we got it wrong yesterday. Often this is a result of pressure, which I don't think this team reacts to too well - one batsman gets out, then the next is scared of getting out so plays out some dot balls, then he decides he has to get a boundary off the next ball and plays a 'reckless' shot. In fact, our run chase was very similar in ineptitude to Afghanistan's v us.

[mystiroakey]

Liver 1 day and 1 match is a life time to a t20 team!!

anything could happen

[liverbnz]

Liver 1 day and 1 match is a life time to a t20 team!!

anything could happen

Very true, but I wasn't reacting to 1 match. I think it's been an issue with England for a while, in all formats and it seems to have more impact on the batsman than the bowlers. Possibly becasue there is less experience in that department or maybe because of something more fundamental.

[mystiroakey]

Ermm i dunno. I think we have only just started to work out why our form has dropped- and yes it is more todo with our batters, but it probally has more to do with internal bickering and politics over anything else.. Its probally dented our confidence and motivation abit..

[VTR]

Utter rubbish yesterday. I won't write the team off on one performance usually, but so bad was that yesterday there is no way in the world we will defend the trophy.

[mystiroakey]

Well i am getting behind us- England have shocked the typical pessimistic england cricket fan over recent times- They can do it again!

[VTR]

Well i am getting behind us- England have shocked the typical pessimistic england cricket fan over recent times- They can do it again!

Of course I'll be supporting us regardless! Just can't see us doing it this time, this year has been disappointing and in some cases downright awful across all formats at certain points. Sadly we're not a consistently good team at the moment like we were in 2010 and 2011.

[Hibbz]

Bit confused with the Indian keyboard warriors, on websites like Cricinfo and the India Cricket Forum. They never miss an opportunity to slate England and now, with a game coming up tomorrow against England, those keyboard warriors are calling it a 'glorified warm-up match'. I think they're worried. And so they should be. Come on England!

Spoiler:

Bet they're bloody crapping themselves in case they have to meet England again. I'd steer clear of those forums for a while if I were you Duty old bean.

If you can remain rooted in your crease when a slow bowler runs in,
If you can look totally out of your depth against an average spinner,
With 160 required off 20 overs,
Yours is the pavilion and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be an England Batsman my son.

[Duty281]

These things happen in T20 Cricket, you lose a couple of wickets, the RRR goes up and everything comes crashing down. Look at this:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283172.html

India once made 74 all out, so did Pakistan, Australia and the West Indies have made 79 before. No need to panic. The Champions will bounce back and India will enjoy their hollow victory before crashing out at the Super 8s.

[ShankyCricket]

These things happen in T20 Cricket, you lose a couple of wickets, the RRR goes up and everything comes crashing down. Look at this:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283172.html

India once made 74 all out, so did Pakistan, Australia and the West Indies have made 79 before. No need to panic. The Champions will bounce back and India will enjoy their hollow victory before crashing out at the Super 8s.

And then you call other posters WUMS.

It'd be good if you support your own team without overhyping and trying to slate other teams.

[liverbnz]

Bit confused with the Indian keyboard warriors, on websites like Cricinfo and the India Cricket Forum. They never miss an opportunity to slate England and now, with a game coming up tomorrow against England, those keyboard warriors are calling it a 'glorified warm-up match'. I think they're worried. And so they should be. Come on England!

Spoiler:

Bet they're bloody crapping themselves in case they have to meet England again. I'd steer clear of those forums for a while if I were you Duty old bean.

If you can remain rooted in your crease when a slow bowler runs in,
If you can look totally out of your depth against an average spinner,
With 160 required off 20 overs,
Yours is the pavilion and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be an England Batsman my son.

[Fists of Fury]

Bit confused with the Indian keyboard warriors, on websites like Cricinfo and the India Cricket Forum. They never miss an opportunity to slate England and now, with a game coming up tomorrow against England, those keyboard warriors are calling it a 'glorified warm-up match'. I think they're worried. And so they should be. Come on England!

Spoiler:

Bet they're bloody crapping themselves in case they have to meet England again. I'd steer clear of those forums for a while if I were you Duty old bean.

If you can remain rooted in your crease when a slow bowler runs in,
If you can look totally out of your depth against an average spinner,
With 160 required off 20 overs,
Yours is the pavilion and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be an England Batsman my son.

Ha, did chuckle at this.

[ShankyCricket]

Bit confused with the Indian keyboard warriors, on websites like Cricinfo and the India Cricket Forum. They never miss an opportunity to slate England and now, with a game coming up tomorrow against England, those keyboard warriors are calling it a 'glorified warm-up match'. I think they're worried. And so they should be. Come on England!

Spoiler:

Bet they're bloody crapping themselves in case they have to meet England again. I'd steer clear of those forums for a while if I were you Duty old bean.

If you can remain rooted in your crease when a slow bowler runs in,
If you can look totally out of your depth against an average spinner,
With 160 required off 20 overs,
Yours is the pavilion and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be an England Batsman my son.

[Stella]

India won the dead rubber.

Would like to meet them again, tbh.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

India won the dead rubber.

Would like to meet them again, tbh.

I'd rather have India than England on NZ's side of the draw - we have the wood on them in T20. Though I'd argue we currently have a stronger T20 batting line up than England, our seam bowling is decidedly below par

[VTR]

India won the dead rubber.

Would like to meet them again, tbh.

Agree with this but we will have to learn fast. Yes it was a dead rubber, but the performance was so abject and showed familiar frailties we can't just move on from it as if it never happended. If we'd lost by 20 runs ok, but this was a hammering and we were inept as usual against spinners that don't even turn the ball.

[Duty281]

Bit confused with the Indian keyboard warriors, on websites like Cricinfo and the India Cricket Forum. They never miss an opportunity to slate England and now, with a game coming up tomorrow against England, those keyboard warriors are calling it a 'glorified warm-up match'. I think they're worried. And so they should be. Come on England!

Spoiler:

Bet they're bloody crapping themselves in case they have to meet England again. I'd steer clear of those forums for a while if I were you Duty old bean.

If you can remain rooted in your crease when a slow bowler runs in,
If you can look totally out of your depth against an average spinner,
With 160 required off 20 overs,
Yours is the pavilion and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be an England Batsman my son.

Ha, did chuckle at this.

So did I.

[Guest]

we need to bring back Patel or Briggs for next game..

infact we HAVE to!

[Duty281]

These things happen in T20 Cricket, you lose a couple of wickets, the RRR goes up and everything comes crashing down. Look at this:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283172.html

India once made 74 all out, so did Pakistan, Australia and the West Indies have made 79 before. No need to panic. The Champions will bounce back and India will enjoy their hollow victory before crashing out at the Super 8s.

And then you call other posters WUMS.

It'd be good if you support your own team without overhyping and trying to slate other teams.

I think India will lose in the Super Eights, Australia, South Africa and Pakistan will all be tough opposition for them. I think Pakistan and South Africa will qualify for the Semis. As for England's group, England and Sri Lanka to qualify for the Semis.

[msp83]

I think SA and Pak from one group and Lanka and West Indies from the other.
Would love to see India, or if not then then the West Indies to take the title, but India's bowling is not strong, and their batting still have work to do. West Indies bowling is so fickle and the batting a bit inconsistent at times. On paper SA is the strongest, but then they have been so for most of the global tournaments that they have played and other than the 98 CT they have nothing much to show for

[Mike Selig]

I think one super 8 group is much tougher than the other, but that is because of the pre-seeding which took place.

I maintain that I'd expect England to beat either the West Indies or Sri Lanka.

The other group is anybody's guess, don't write off the Aussies too quickly either. If the pitches continue to offer decent pace and bounce they could spring a surprise or two.

[msp83]

Gayle has started bowling again, Samuels can bowl some non-turning offies, and they do have Sunil Narine. The Lankans have Ajantha and Jeevan, and Dilshan can also bowl some spin. England will have to get over the mental damage from the previous game very quickly indeed.
One benefit with the T-20 format is that such a rise has a greater possibility. If a couple of players get going then things can fall into place, just as quickly as it went out of the window in the last match.
England have a good seam bowling unit and a very good spinner in Graeme Swann. They have game changing batters like Eoin Morgan. So they still are in with a chance.

[ShankyCricket]

India have never lost to Pak in a World Cup. And I expect them to beat either SA or Aus at Colomob. SA don't have spinners.

[Shelsey93]

SA don't have spinners.

I rate Botha highly. I still think that India and Pakistan will go through from Group 2 though.

[Fists of Fury]

Gayle has started bowling again, Samuels can bowl some non-turning offies, and they do have Sunil Narine. The Lankans have Ajantha and Jeevan, and Dilshan can also bowl some spin. England will have to get over the mental damage from the previous game very quickly indeed.
One benefit with the T-20 format is that such a rise has a greater possibility. If a couple of players get going then things can fall into place, just as quickly as it went out of the window in the last match.
England have a good seam bowling unit and a very good spinner in Graeme Swann. They have game changing batters like Eoin Morgan. So they still are in with a chance.

Eoin Morgan has barely performed in 12 months. Given that he is unable to defend against both seam and spin, I think we'd be better off ditching him after this tournament. He has performed in the past, granted, so I'd perhaps give him an extended run in limited overs, but this guy shouldn't be anywhere near the Test side.

[Fists of Fury]

England to lose all three, too. God I'm a ray of sunshine, aren't I.

[Stella]

Reverse psychology?

[Shelsey93]

Spot on Fists (on Morgan, not losing all three - I think we'll beat WI and NZ before coming a cropper in the semis)

He's our top limited overs player apart from **, but his Test selection is a major error in my opinion.

They've obviously done it on the grounds that we won't have ** and that he's our next most dynamic player as an alternative. But we already have Bairstow and I'm not sure that's necessarily what we need.

The idea that Morgan is a good player of spin is a complete myth - he's a good hitter of spin but the two are different. On numerous occasions I've seen him struggle to get spinners away for 1s and 2s, and then inevitably get out bowled or lbw, often playing across the line. In some ways that's not a major issue if, as v Pakistan in 2010 or India in 2011, he usually comes in at 450-4 and his job is to get us to a declaration. But we're unlikely to bat that well in India, and so its more likely that he'll fail to get us out of trouble again like in the UAE.

In India we need some stability and I think that that can only come (assuming no **) from a top five of Cook, Compton, Trott, Bell and Taylor. The non-selection of Taylor, who plays spin well and isn't scarred by last winter is beyond me. With the way England are going it looks like we'll end up with an unknown in Root opening, Morgan at 5 and Bairstow at 6. That doesn't fill me with much confidence in Asian conditions.

[msp83]

Playing spin in helpful conditions is going to be a major challenge for young Jonny.
think I would agree with Fists and Shelsey on Morgan, he can hit good spinners, but he isn't a great bet against spin when the ball turns and bounces and the teem need him to stick around.

[Mike Selig]

Erm, Morgan was the best England batsman against South Africa in the ODIs? And scored 30 off 16 balls (which is a good T20 effort given he came in with 7 overs remaining and got out with only 1 remaining) against Australia in the warm-up. 20ish against the West Indies in the one ODI he batted in. He also had a terrific ODI series against Australia, IIRC didn't get out, smashed 89 off 63 (?) balls in one of the games, and 40 not out to see England home (admitedly from an already very strong position) in another.

It is simply not true to say he hasn't performed in the last 12 months in the shorter formats. He had a horror tour of the UAE but even then his ODI scores don't make that bad reading (although he was very scratchy). Since then he's been good.

It's also unfair to suggest that he was constantly coming in in good situations against Pakistan in 2010. England's top order (mainly the openers and Pietersen) often struggled in that series and Morgan's century came with England under pressure.

Taylor is a poor player of spin. Say what you like about Morgan (and I disagree with most of it) but he has the ability to take the game away from the spinners. Taylor's main weakness is knocking the ball around against spinners, it's why ultimately everyone thinks he'll be a top order rather than a middle order player.

[Fists of Fury]

Mike, are you Eoin Morgan?

[JDizzle]

Unfortunately, I agree with Mike; Taylor doesn't play spin particularly well. He struggles to rotate the strike, and had an average Lions tour of the sub continent last year (where Jos Buttler was the best player, so he can play spin well) and I think this is Taylor's main weakness against all bowling. He has a solid technique but he does struggle to manoeuvre the quicks as well as the spinners, but he did play Imran Tahir pretty well last summer in the short time he had against him but it is a completely different task in the SC.

I do think Morgan can be a good Test player. Yes, he is unconventional but there have been plenty of other players who aren't technically perfect who have made it at Test level by working out there own game in their head and being mentally strong enough to implement it (Alastair Cook?). Morgan has suffered with muddled thinking, as did the rest of the England side last winter, and didn't know whether to stick or twist against Ajmal etc. but I believe he has had time off and hopefully he will have it clear in his own head of how he is going to play the turning ball, where his release shot is and where he can turn over singles and he has the talent to pull this off.

[ShankyCricket]

To use Mike's own words, I think he is talking a lot of "nonsense" about Morgan.

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