MMA vs Boxing

by azania Sat 16 Apr 2011, 9:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well we had Toney represent boxing where he embarassed himself. Now it seems Jeff Lacy is not retiring but is considering having a boxing match again Diaz. I've seen Diaz fight in MMA and whilst good, I wouldn't give him a chance against a washed up Lacy.

But are there any MMA players who could be good pro boxers and any pro bexers who could cut it in MMA? Julius Francis tried MMA and got it handed to him.

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:25 pm

I remember staying up to watch the supposed biggest fight ever on UFC. It was Lesnar v Carwin.

The standard was horrific. WHo on earth would believe that they were the best the sport had to offer. But because Dana says so.....

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:26 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:OK, remember when Don King had his little WBA HW merry go round a few years back. Valuez, Chagaev, Ruiz...and a few more were all controlled by Don King and just took it in turns to fight eachother for the title. Now if Don KIng controlled all the titles and froze everyone out except these guys the casual fan would think it's great seeing the 'best fight the best' all the time. But because boxing isn't controlled by one promoter we've had the fortune of watching modern greats like the K's, Haye and Herbie Hide.

Outside of the Ks who had a tag team contractual obligation, who else was there to fight? If the K bost were with King, you can bet your last dollar they would have defended against better opposition without the tag team element.

Also the HW division is worse than rubbish and has been so for a decade at least.

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:27 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:I remember staying up to watch the supposed biggest fight ever on UFC. It was Lesnar v Carwin.

The standard was horrific. WHo on earth would believe that they were the best the sport had to offer. But because Dana says so.....

Will you stay up to watch Silva vs GSP?

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:28 pm

Like boxing you can see two fighters who you think would have a great fight and it turns out to be poor. Lesnar has good mat skills because he has a wrestling background and was trained by Kurt Angle who is an olympic gold medalist and praised his mat skills considering he is such a powerhouse. Dana didn't say so they have rankings.

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:29 pm

prettyboy1304 wrote:
azania wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:But Don King would select his top fighters based upon popularity and how little they're prepared to be payed and freeze all the talented ones out that won't conform. This approach might attract many more casual fans but Boxing as a sport would suffer massively. This is what I see when I watch UFC.

As opposed to now where the best always fight the best I see. What we have now is the best (allegedly) fighting a 40 year old has been and some are trying to sell that as legit. Do me a favour. Bring back King. At least fights got made.

Bring back DK
We need to stop agreeing with each other or I'm starting a Calzaghe thread.

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:32 pm

Look what Don KIng did in the 90's. All those great HW's and he froze Lewis, the best of them, out. How many 'Lewis'' are sitting at the sidelines of UFC twidling their thumbs because Dana White won't pay them a fair wage.

I await the usual response of..... The best fight the best in UFC cos Dana says so.

As casual entertainment UFC is good, but it can't be taken too seriously.

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:34 pm

azania wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:I remember staying up to watch the supposed biggest fight ever on UFC. It was Lesnar v Carwin.

The standard was horrific. WHo on earth would believe that they were the best the sport had to offer. But because Dana says so.....

Will you stay up to watch Silva vs GSP?

GSP is the boring one right?

If so, no.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:36 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Look what Don KIng did in the 90's. All those great HW's and he froze Lewis, the best of them, out. How many 'Lewis'' are sitting at the sidelines of UFC twidling their thumbs because Dana White won't pay them a fair wage.

I await the usual response of..... The best fight the best in UFC cos Dana says so.

As casual entertainment UFC is good, but it can't be taken too seriously.

You clearly don't know anything about it Dana is a buisnesswoman who bankrolled an idea not a matchmaker and has nothing to do with the rankings. She doesn't know enough about it to have a big say and she has stated that in the past.

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:36 pm

Guess who's the best paid MMA athelete of all time......

....James Toney. (he was at the time anyway)

I rest my case.

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:37 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Look what Don KIng did in the 90's. All those great HW's and he froze Lewis, the best of them, out. How many 'Lewis'' are sitting at the sidelines of UFC twidling their thumbs because Dana White won't pay them a fair wage.

I await the usual response of..... The best fight the best in UFC cos Dana says so.

As casual entertainment UFC is good, but it can't be taken too seriously.

Lewis got his shot.

As for UFC wages, they are generally poor in comparison to boxing. But the UFC adds extra incentive in offering bonusses for performances ie FOTN, KO of the night, sub or the night etc.

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:37 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Guess who's the best paid MMA athelete of all time......

....James Toney. (he was at the time anyway)

I rest my case.

And what case would that be?

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:38 pm

prettyboy1304 wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Look what Don KIng did in the 90's. All those great HW's and he froze Lewis, the best of them, out. How many 'Lewis'' are sitting at the sidelines of UFC twidling their thumbs because Dana White won't pay them a fair wage.

I await the usual response of..... The best fight the best in UFC cos Dana says so.

As casual entertainment UFC is good, but it can't be taken too seriously.

You clearly don't know anything about it Dana is a buisnesswoman who bankrolled an idea not a matchmaker and has nothing to do with the rankings. She doesn't know enough about it to have a big say and she has stated that in the past.

This is quite possibly the funniest post I have ever read, it's both funny and ironic on many levels.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:39 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Guess who's the best paid MMA athelete of all time......

....James Toney. (he was at the time anyway)

I rest my case.

It was a one off fee for the first ever cross over fight and Toney was getting danger money. He was well out of his depth and comfort zone.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:41 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Look what Don KIng did in the 90's. All those great HW's and he froze Lewis, the best of them, out. How many 'Lewis'' are sitting at the sidelines of UFC twidling their thumbs because Dana White won't pay them a fair wage.

I await the usual response of..... The best fight the best in UFC cos Dana says so.

As casual entertainment UFC is good, but it can't be taken too seriously.

You clearly don't know anything about it Dana is a buisnesswoman who bankrolled an idea not a matchmaker and has nothing to do with the rankings. She doesn't know enough about it to have a big say and she has stated that in the past.

This is quite possibly the funniest post I have ever read, it's both funny and ironic on many levels.

You compared her to Vince McMahon so you are absolutely clueless

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:41 pm

azania wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Guess who's the best paid MMA athelete of all time......

....James Toney. (he was at the time anyway)

I rest my case.

And what case would that be?

When a fat retired 'athelete' from another sport becomes the highest paid 'star' in UFC on his debut, do you not think that it might affect the 'sports' credibility?

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:42 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
azania wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Guess who's the best paid MMA athelete of all time......

....James Toney. (he was at the time anyway)

I rest my case.

And what case would that be?

When a fat retired 'athelete' from another sport becomes the highest paid 'star' in UFC on his debut, do you not think that it might affect the 'sports' credibility?

It was a marketing ploy and it worked it was all over tv in the states.

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:42 pm

prettyboy1304 wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Look what Don KIng did in the 90's. All those great HW's and he froze Lewis, the best of them, out. How many 'Lewis'' are sitting at the sidelines of UFC twidling their thumbs because Dana White won't pay them a fair wage.

I await the usual response of..... The best fight the best in UFC cos Dana says so.

As casual entertainment UFC is good, but it can't be taken too seriously.

You clearly don't know anything about it Dana is a buisnesswoman who bankrolled an idea not a matchmaker and has nothing to do with the rankings. She doesn't know enough about it to have a big say and she has stated that in the past.

This is quite possibly the funniest post I have ever read, it's both funny and ironic on many levels.

You compared her to Vince McMahon so you are absolutely clueless

I'm cluless hey??? Keep digging.

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:44 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
azania wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Guess who's the best paid MMA athelete of all time......

....James Toney. (he was at the time anyway)

I rest my case.

And what case would that be?

When a fat retired 'athelete' from another sport becomes the highest paid 'star' in UFC on his debut, do you not think that it might affect the 'sports' credibility?

Actually the UFC got the publicity and promotion for cheap. You cant buy that sort of publicity and intrigue which a top rated boxer (name wise) fights in the UFC.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:45 pm

Yes you are clueless UFC need more independent orginisations like boxing it has done so well for boxing hasn't it.

by eddyfightfan Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:45 pm

UFC have the ultimate fighter seris where unknowns get the chance to fight through tryouts and get a shot the UFC- so new talent can get through

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:46 pm

prettyboy1304 wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
azania wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Guess who's the best paid MMA athelete of all time......

....James Toney. (he was at the time anyway)

I rest my case.

And what case would that be?

When a fat retired 'athelete' from another sport becomes the highest paid 'star' in UFC on his debut, do you not think that it might affect the 'sports' credibility?

It was a marketing ploy and it worked it was all over tv in the states.

Precisely. UFC is a marketing ploy. They would put anyone or thing on a show if they though it would bring in more money. They don't care about the credibility of the sport, and are just trying to make as much cash before the bubble bursts. Good luck to them, but I'm not fooled.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:48 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
azania wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Guess who's the best paid MMA athelete of all time......

....James Toney. (he was at the time anyway)

I rest my case.

And what case would that be?

When a fat retired 'athelete' from another sport becomes the highest paid 'star' in UFC on his debut, do you not think that it might affect the 'sports' credibility?

It was a marketing ploy and it worked it was all over tv in the states.

Precisely. UFC is a marketing ploy. They would put anyone or thing on a show if they though it would bring in more money. They don't care about the credibility of the sport, and are just trying to make as much cash before the bubble bursts. Good luck to them, but I'm not fooled.

Pacquiao vs Mosley

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:48 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
azania wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Guess who's the best paid MMA athelete of all time......

....James Toney. (he was at the time anyway)

I rest my case.

And what case would that be?

When a fat retired 'athelete' from another sport becomes the highest paid 'star' in UFC on his debut, do you not think that it might affect the 'sports' credibility?

It was a marketing ploy and it worked it was all over tv in the states.

Precisely. UFC is a marketing ploy. They would put anyone or thing on a show if they though it would bring in more money. They don't care about the credibility of the sport, and are just trying to make as much cash before the bubble bursts. Good luck to them, but I'm not fooled.

UFC pits different combat techniques against one another to see who is the best fighter. In a nutshell that is what the sport is about.

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:51 pm

Randy Couture vs James Toney
Fedor vs...(insert any name)

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:53 pm

Who are the stars of UFC now anyway? I can only think of GSP

Is Chuck Lidl still going?

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:53 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Randy Couture vs James Toney
Fedor vs...(insert any name)

Yes and Fedor has lost his last 2 fights against average fighters. Werdum was cut from the UFC and Silva was not good enough for the UFC.

Fedor was the greatest ever, but not anymore.

by eddyfightfan Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:53 pm

prettyboy1304 wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Look what Don KIng did in the 90's. All those great HW's and he froze Lewis, the best of them, out. How many 'Lewis'' are sitting at the sidelines of UFC twidling their thumbs because Dana White won't pay them a fair wage.

I await the usual response of..... The best fight the best in UFC cos Dana says so.

As casual entertainment UFC is good, but it can't be taken too seriously.

You clearly don't know anything about it Dana is a buisnesswoman who bankrolled an idea not a matchmaker and has nothing to do with the rankings. She doesn't know enough about it to have a big say and she has stated that in the past.

This is quite possibly the funniest post I have ever read, it's both funny and ironic on many levels.

You compared her to Vince McMahon so you are absolutely clueless

you are aware dana white is a man?????????

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:54 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Who are the stars of UFC now anyway? I can only think of GSP

Is Chuck Lidl still going?

John Jones is the new rising star. Lidell has gone. Tito is finished. GSP, Anderson Silva are still there. SO it BJ Penn.

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:55 pm

So the greatest ever never fought in UFC? What does that say about the best fighting the best?

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:57 pm

Anderson Silva.

This guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt1GcBeYUmY

by eddyfightfan Sun 17 Apr 2011, 5:59 pm

anderson silva also gets a cut of PPV sales for his fighters and earns more than most world level boxers

by **HumanWindmill** Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:01 pm

I should say straight out of the chute that I don't know the first thing about MMA.

However, my suspicion would be that as the sport grows it will be a target for the money men and will fall victim to them just as boxing has. Rival organizations, fragmented titles, the best avoiding the best, etc., etc., and all so the money men can get fatter.

Just a hunch.

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:04 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:So the greatest ever never fought in UFC? What does that say about the best fighting the best?

One swallow does not make a summer. If he was in the UFC he would have fought the best. Thats the difference between MMA and boxing. When Fedor was at Pride he fought the best regularly.

Manny vs Floyd?

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:04 pm

Actualy Windy it seems to be going the other way. Almost the entire sport of MMA is now controlled by a single promoter with an iron grip.

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:07 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Actualy Windy it seems to be going the other way. Almost the entire sport of MMA is now controlled by a single promoter with an iron grip.

Sometimes in sport we need a dictatorial leadership. With TV looking to pull viewers and some fighters tied up with either HBO or showtime, and rival promoters, the best hardly fight the best.

If boxing were under one main promoter like UFC is with MMA, then the best will always fight the best. The company and fans will demand it.

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:08 pm

Manny v Floyd will be made. I think they're both just preparing to end their careers with it. And even if it doesn't happen it will be because of the fighters themselves and not some fat greedy promoter.

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:09 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Manny v Floyd will be made. I think they're both just preparing to end their careers with it. And even if it doesn't happen it will be because of the fighters themselves and not some fat greedy promoter.

It they were under one umberella they would have fought years ago. At least twice by now.

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:11 pm

If boxing were under one umburella I doub't we'd have fighters of the calibre of Mayweather and Manny.

by **HumanWindmill** Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:11 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Actualy Windy it seems to be going the other way. Almost the entire sport of MMA is now controlled by a single promoter with an iron grip.

Just shows what I know, Juke.

I'd best stay out of it and leave it to you lads who know what you're talking about.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:11 pm

Where their is money their is corruption and people looking out for themselves all sports have problems to do with money.

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:13 pm

HumanWindmill wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Actualy Windy it seems to be going the other way. Almost the entire sport of MMA is now controlled by a single promoter with an iron grip.

Just shows what I know, Juke.

I'd best stay out of it and leave it to you lads who know what you're talking about.

Pity you dont take that self advice to other areas. Very Happy

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:14 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:If boxing were under one umburella I doub't we'd have fighters of the calibre of Mayweather and Manny.

The UFC is the pinnacle of MMA. All the best want to go there. Fedor wanted too much and Dana said no. Now he shot his bolt and paid the price.

by **HumanWindmill** Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:15 pm

azania wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Actualy Windy it seems to be going the other way. Almost the entire sport of MMA is now controlled by a single promoter with an iron grip.

Just shows what I know, Juke.

I'd best stay out of it and leave it to you lads who know what you're talking about.

Pity you dont take that self advice to other areas.

I'm sure you can educate me in the art of nonsense, az. Just let me get a protein shake first so that I can stay awake long enough to benefit from your expertise.

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:18 pm

HumanWindmill wrote:
azania wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Actualy Windy it seems to be going the other way. Almost the entire sport of MMA is now controlled by a single promoter with an iron grip.

Just shows what I know, Juke.

I'd best stay out of it and leave it to you lads who know what you're talking about.

Pity you dont take that self advice to other areas.

I'm sure you can educate me in the art of nonsense, az. Just let me get a protein shake first so that I can stay awake long enough to benefit from your expertise.

Of course I will. You'll get no better tutor.

by **HumanWindmill** Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:22 pm

azania wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:
azania wrote:
HumanWindmill wrote:
Jukebox Timebomb wrote:Actualy Windy it seems to be going the other way. Almost the entire sport of MMA is now controlled by a single promoter with an iron grip.

Just shows what I know, Juke.

I'd best stay out of it and leave it to you lads who know what you're talking about.

Pity you dont take that self advice to other areas.

I'm sure you can educate me in the art of nonsense, az. Just let me get a protein shake first so that I can stay awake long enough to benefit from your expertise.

Of course I will. You'll get no better tutor.

Now you're making me feel bad. I should have known it would be a bad idea to join an MMA thread.

by eddyfightfan Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:23 pm

plus with one promoter it becomes very clear who is ducking who in the event of fighters trying to avoid people

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:23 pm

prettyboy1304 wrote:Yes you are clueless UFC need more independent orginisations like boxing it has done so well for boxing hasn't it.

Boxing wouldn't work with one title per division now. Imagine if MAyweather and Manny P held the 140/147/154 lb belts, we wouldn't get to see great fights like last nights Berto v Ortiz.

by Jukebox Timebomb Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:25 pm

eddyfightfan wrote:plus with one promoter it becomes very clear who is ducking who in the event of fighters trying to avoid people

What happens if some of the best fighters don't get on with this promoter.

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:27 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
prettyboy1304 wrote:Yes you are clueless UFC need more independent orginisations like boxing it has done so well for boxing hasn't it.

Boxing wouldn't work with one title per division now. Imagine if MAyweather and Manny P held the 140/147/154 lb belts, we wouldn't get to see great fights like last nights Berto v Ortiz.

Why not? It could be an eliminator. Are you suggesting that more titles are actually better for boxing? With one title we wouldn't have this ridiculous idea of one boxer claiming titles at several different weights with weight stips. To be the champ you have to be the best if there is one title to win. Plus to be recognised as a legit multi weight champ you would have had to beat the best at each weight.

by azania Sun 17 Apr 2011, 6:28 pm

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:
eddyfightfan wrote:plus with one promoter it becomes very clear who is ducking who in the event of fighters trying to avoid people

What happens if some of the best fighters don't get on with this promoter.

Many DK fighters didn't like him (and I'm being polite) but they fought the best in heavily stacked cards. Wasn't Chavez/Taylor fight an undercard fight? Nowadays that alone would be PPV and topping whatever bill.

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