Ben Foden doubtful for AIs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19638501

A Saints statement said he had suffered "significant damage" and would be out of action "for a number of weeks".

Would like to see Brown or Goode get a run of starts for England to see what they can bring to the table.

Given how he was used in the summer (wing) this suggests that that is where the opening will be. Choosing Brown or Goode is a nice problem to have

Definitely lostinwales. They seem to both be on fire at the moment. I'm hoping that Wade will be given the starts come the AIs, or if it's seen as too early for him to make the step up, at least a nice run of starts for Sharples.

Real shame for Foden. Big chance for Brown and Goode, both will feature in some capacity.

Gutted about Foden - when i saw his ankle twist almost 180 desgree i thought it would be a bad one.

Hopefully Goode and/or Brown will ahve their moment to shine, Neither are lacking in talent.

Sorry for Foden, but fullback is one of the positions that we are developing significant depth in. In the main squad we've got Goode and Brown who are both excellent replacements.

We've also got Rob Miller and Nick Abendanon in the Saxons. Abendanon has turned into a more dependable full back with an attacking spark and Miller was the top try scorer in the league last year.

Bad luck for Foden. Get well soon.

Can Miller play wing? It looks like Lancaster had Foden/Brown/Ashton or similar in mind as his back three, so the most natural replacement would be a FB who can also play wing. Brown doesn't play wing and Goode isn't noted for it, so I think they are unlikely to feature together (though I'd expect both to get game time at FB).

Bad news for foden who has made himself a certain starter for england over the last couple of years be it at full back or on the wing. It s great for england to have to good options to replace foden, i would be happy with either, although long term i feel it will be goode that becomes a regular in the 22.

Goode's ability to step into the line as first receiver during a game and to come of the bench and play 10 makes him a more viable candidate for the 22. Having said that if brown can replicate his quins form for england (easier said than done) then he could become first choice full back whether foden is fit or not.

As far as replacing foden for the upcoming AI's as mentioned above its a winger that will be getting their chance. Wade has a big future with england, he just has that spark that makes him stand out but he may have to play his way in gradually. the likes of sharples and may are in a similar position to wade, currently i would have monye ahead of all of them.

Poorfour wrote:Bad luck for Foden. Get well soon.

Can Miller play wing? It looks like Lancaster had Foden/Brown/Ashton or similar in mind as his back three, so the most natural replacement would be a FB who can also play wing. Brown doesn't play wing and Goode isn't noted for it, so I think they are unlikely to feature together (though I'd expect both to get game time at FB).

On that basis, could be May, who was Gloucester best back last weekend IMO

CJ,

I can't see May starting in the 6Ns , i think he will be on the bench due to the fact that he can play 11-15 which is always handy , Foden has wheels which the back 3 does lack with out him in there.

If i was SL i'd go something along the lines of

11.Charlie Sharples
15.Alex Goode
14.Chris Ashton

22.Jonny May

Goode is playing really well at the minute and is currently the man in charge of the 15 shirt with a wide range of skills and most important in a top player a rugby brain.

Driver wrote:CJ,

I can't see May starting in the 6Ns , i think he will be on the bench due to the fact that he can play 11-15 which is always handy , Foden has wheels which the back 3 does lack with out him in there.

If i was SL i'd go something along the lines of

11.Charlie Sharples
15.Alex Goode
14.Chris Ashton

22.Jonny May

Goode is playing really well at the minute and is currently the man in charge of the 15 shirt with a wide range of skills and most important in a top player a rugby brain.

I would be inclined to start Brown, as a) I am a Quins fan b) as good form as Goode is in (and he is), Brown is in equally excellent, try scoring form and has been for the past 12 months + some c) Brown is surely higher up the ladder than Goode given that he was starting ahead of him for England and performing well (not as well as Goode I'd argue Goode had the much easier later test to play) before injury

They are both calss players though and IMO both in better form than Foden was even before this injury, though Foden has had few if any poor matches for England

Yeah id give Brown a start if Foden is not fit which looks possible.

11 ?
14 Ashton
15 Brown

Im not sure who to go with at 11. I would prefer a bit of a power winger...like an in form Monye..or Benjamin (sadly injured for 3 months now) with Wade coming off the bench.
Not really a fan of Sharples...

Tom Catterick GF!!!!!

Plus Miles Benjiman is out for 3 months.

Monye is in form. He just needs to be used right. accept his limitations and use his direct power and pace

Driver TC is doing nicely on the wing....maybe my ideas of him at FH are fading...Joel Hodgson seems to be the choice... but im not complaining.

Yeah CJ, i liked Monye...he is a powerful guy with pace and tackles like a tank.

Monye and Ashton would be a nice balance (with Wade coming off the bench)...but as you say we need to use them right.

If Stuart Lancaster would like any tips on how to use English backs effectively, I'm sure O'Shea and Cockers could give some hints

I hope they all make a recovery. I wouldn't want the AIs to be devalued by injuries again...

ChequeredJersey wrote:If Stuart Lancaster would like any tips on how to use English backs effectively, I'm sure O'Shea and Cockers could give some hints

Surely you mean Matt O'Connor?

I also think our backs played some of there best rugby in donkeys in South Africa so Mike Catt must be doing something right!

Did you Driver?

Hhmmm i didnt see much im afraid. Partially because Farrell is unable to get a backline moving and over reliant on hoofing the ball away.

I expect to see much more in the AI's

Brown to wear the 15 shirt if he continues in his current form. Goode has been quality, but Brown has been a step above.

I think Lancaster will go for Wade or May on the open wing spot. Monye has been playing well, but I don't think Lancaster favours him above the others. I rate Sharples, but he hasn't looked in great form so far this season. Given Lancaster clearly holds Joseph in high regard, to get him in the starting XV a possibility he might be considering is playing him on the wing as Catt did numerous times at LI.

On one hand its sad that Foden is out Injured but on the other im so excited about the people that could take his place. As discussed before i think it will defiantly open up a position on the wing instead of at FB, Alot of people have mentioned sharples, But I heard that sharples may be out with a shoulder injury?


If so here is my master plan :


If i had a choice i would start Monye for the fiji game to see how he copes at international level again , when he was playing really well for england (No not at fullback ) he wasnt playing near as well for quins as he has been over the past season.

Id then Start Wade against the Ozys (with Monye on the bench depending on how he preformed against Fiji) as i feel he would suit playing against the australians who are not known or their huge backs and to basically give him a chance , he could quite easily be targeted by the high balls and get ruined (i doubt it) but on the other hand he could absolutely destroy any Ozzy that he finds in space and light up the rest of the team. I could be the start of a bright future.

Depending on how Wade faired in the Ozzy game id then give May a chance. If Wade was completely amazing he would defiantly start with May on the bench to come on for the last 20 (Again dependant on wether Wade is doing amazing) but if Wade didnt preform as well as Monye, Id Swap Monye into start in place of wade.

And then Depending on what has occurred in the past few weeks id chose who starts against New Zealand.


To Victory !!!

The current EPS backs are:

A Allen (Leicester), C Ashton (Saracens), B Barritt (Saracens), M Brown (Harlequins), D Care (Harlequins), L Dickson (Northampton), O Farrell (Saracens), T Flood (Leicester), B Foden (Northampton), A Goode (Saracens), J Joseph (London Irish), C Sharples (Gloucester), M Tuilagi (Leicester), J Turner-Hall (Harlequins), B Youngs (Leicester)


Sharples isn't meant to be out for long, so as it stands only Foden is likely to need replacing by (just) one of the candidates from the Saxons:

N Abendanon (Bath), M Benjamin (Leicester), T Biggs (Bath), F Burns (Gloucester), G Ford (Leicester), G Lowe (Harlequins), J May (Gloucester), R Miller (Sale Sharks), U Monye (Harlequins), J Simpson (Wasps), D Strettle (Saracens), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester), C Wade (Wasps), R Wigglesworth (Saracens)

Hmmm so we're looking at a replacement wing.

Tom Biggs is a criminally underrated/ overlooked player, but is he of international standard?

Christian Wade is a very tempting option, especially against Fiji. My worry is that England won't play to his strengths and he will be underused/ isolated. His positioning still needs working on and that can make him a little bit of a defensive liability, there needs to be a pay-off if England take the risk.

David Strettle just doesn't score enough trys to my mind. I was surprised when he was retained in the Saxons over the summer.

Benjamin is out with a lengthy injury and can't be considered.

Jon Joseph could do a job and I would suggest that he might get a chance if any of the other candidates are injured.

How has Ugo Monye been playing for Quins?

England are apparently 'sweating' on Sharples shoulder injury. If he's fit, he's got to be of the choices.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/england-sweat-on-charlie-sharples-shoulder-8122370.html

May is always a threat and I hope he will be a good England player for a long time to come. He can create something out of nothing, a skill that England are very likely to need in the coming years.

Cumbrian wrote:Hmmm so we're looking at a replacement wing.

Tom Biggs is a criminally underrated/ overlooked player, but is he of international standard?

In a word, no.

So what we are saying is that it will probably be barrett and manu in the centers with JJ pushed out to the wing, brown at FB. I'm not saying thats what I'd like though.

Be much more fun bringing Wade in. You have to think about current form

A real shame for Foden - he is a real atttacking threat.

Urgh, not sure that Barritt, Manu, JJ is the way forward. JJ not exactly on fire at Irish right now, and then on the wing too? I suppose he has the/a shirt at the moment though and it's too soon to take it off him, but I'd have loved to have seen Wade/Monye play

personally think its tragic that this has happened. I had him down as one of very few English players who might have a shot at starting for the lions. I know its a long way off but this now gives him less time to show his international class whilst his (very high quality rivals for the shirt) will have the opportunity.

Another large concern for me is the impact this will have on Northampton Saints as we look a one dimensional side without him.

I would still like to see Jonny May on the wing - would take Wade though.

Lets try and scare the opposition with our wings rather than going for solidity.

LT- would you consider monye a disappointing selection?

I think Monye would be the steady selection. In a good team he can be really effective - but in a team that creates little we need more flair out wide.

LT,

I think you hit the nail there...we have a serious lack of creativity in the midfield at the moment...and im concerned where its coming from.

This clearly affects those outside..

Monye is quality if used correctly. Cumbrian rightly pointed out Wades strengths...but also that not being used for his attack would highlight his clear positional / defensive issues.

May has similar defensive issues i think...but both are young and learning the game at this level.

What do we do though...stop the real class attacking players because they're a risk? Oz would be rubbing their hands at the likes of Wade and May and even JJ coming through...

Personally its the 10 - 12 axis that needs looking at.

And Flood NEEDS to start at 10. He might not be everyones cup of tea...but he is the most creative we have until some of the young pretenders over take him.

It'll be interesting what sort of chances England will take with their selection. The AIs usually present a great opportunity to bring in some new players and play a little more adventurously, but with the all important WC 4th seeded spot up for grabs on the back of the AI results we might see a little more pragmatism.

I think Monye would be the go to option for Lancaster if he wanted some certainty on the wing. Sharples was probably the pick of the wing options last season, but he didn't look near the same level prior to his shoulder injury the other week, and that's not likely to get him up to speed by selection.

Personally I'd prefer to bring May or Wade up, with the first match against Fiji offering a good first cap to ease them in. Wade's attacking potential is undeniable but isn't there with his defensive positioning and decision making yet, which the SH sides would surely look to expose, so a bit more of a risk at present but one or the future. I'd lean towards May who is just as rapid and exciting in attack, but I feel makes better defensive decisions and has a FB's boot & gather under the high ball to help tidy things up when under pressure. Plus his FB & centre experience gives us more options on the bench, where I expect to see either Joseph or Goode, with Brown starting at FB.

The question I want to kniw is....is Barritt creative enough at 12 if he has someone like flood at 10 as opposed to Farrell.

His defence etc has been monumental...like an extra flanker. If he can show what he.can do ball in hand....we may have our 12 already in place.

Lets see if Catt can get them working....

The players involved in the squads in with a chance of replacing foden in the starting lineup are:

Monye, wade, may, sharples, strettle, miller and biggs

possibly in that order..?

Still some time to go, for players to put their hand up or to get injured..

GeordieFalcon wrote:The question I want to kniw is....is Barritt creative enough at 12 if he has someone like flood at 10 as opposed to Farrell.

His defence etc has been monumental...like an extra flanker. If he can show what he.can do ball in hand....we may have our 12 already in place.

Lets see if Catt can get them working....

No! Aston to 12. Tuilagi to 11. Mark my words! I was the first to suggest Tuilagi in to 12 on this forum! and Lancaster listened! And it was some success in SA!

foden out for up to 3 months

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/20629.php#.UFxQalFReSo

AWOP, Ashton is not a 12. There's no way he would be as effective in the centre.

Well LT

Its Brown v Goode.

I'd personally start Brown, then give Goode 30 mins...

Goode does make for a very err good bench option. I hope Saracens play him at 10 more at the request of Eng so that he can fill in there internationally if it's needed.

EngInAuck wrote:Id then Start Wade against the Ozys (with Monye on the bench depending on how he preformed against Fiji)

I'd say other way around, Monye's been looking sharp out the gates this season and although i'd definatley give Wade the nod for speed and making holes, he is still making basic defense errors, which the Aussies will exploit mercilessly when they're on the front foot.

Time to get Brown on as FB as well. - but i'd defiantley prefer flood at 10 rather than farrell if he was. He shines with an attacking 10.

Ah Alastair

I really cant see how England could justify starting Farrell at 10 at the moment.
He's proved that whilst he has the character, defence and kicking to be a very good international 10 in the future his current skills set is below that required. Hopefully he can work on these and become a seriously good all round international 10.

Ps I dont think Flood is a World Class 10 either by any means but is the best of the group at the moment. I just hope the likes of Ford etc can really hit the level England fans are praying for.

Oh and watch out for a young lad called Hodgson starting at 10 for Falcons v Pirates on Sunday. Like Ford, small of frame (though he too has been on a bulking mission in preseason) but posseses some serious passing and creativity..hopefully can show next year back in the prem what he can do..maybe add himself to the list?

GeordieFalcon wrote:I really cant see how England could justify starting Farrell at 10 at the moment.
He's proved that whilst he has the character, defence and kicking to be a very good international 10 in the future his current skills set is below that required. Hopefully he can work on these and become a seriously good all round international 10.

He's woefully off form as well in the short term Geordie. Not sure if you caught last weeks Sarries/Tigers match, but he was having a shocker. I honestly do hope he does grow, find his form again and improve - Last 6N (unlike a lot of people) i thought he was brilliant and showed massive potential. I still do, but he's having few bad days at the office.

Farell has the potential to be our Deal Closer. The iceman cometh!

He could be our cold blooded assassin who comes off the bench with 20 to go when were protecting a lead.

He is perfect for that role. Great defence and will kick anything through the sticks. Ice water in his veins.

Soon enough the sight of Farrell coming off the bench will chill the blood of our enemas!

They will know their goose is cooked when they see him.

Yeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Glad to see you've started early Triangulation!

But, I do agree with you!

Triangulation wrote: chill the blood of our enemas!

That could chafe!

If he can kick out the desire to kick (pun intended) and develope his attacking instincts and skills - ie passing, break making etc...he could make that 10 spot his own...he could be a complete player...but its a big if.

Its easier to have the flair skills and develop the others such as kicking and physcial power etc...

Tri, I don't think I've ever seen someone swing between such pessimism and such optimism so quickly! I'm getting confused!