Ospreys vs Munster Rabbo Pro 12 - post match discussion

Date: Saturday, September 29
Kick-off: 18:30 BST
Venue: Liberty Stadium
Referee: Dudley Phillips (Ireland)
Assistant referees: Rhys Thomas (Wales), Greg Morgan (Wales)
Television match official: Nigel Whitehouse (Wales)

Ospreys

15 Richard Fussell
14 Hanno Dirksen
13 Andrew Bishop
12 Ashley Beck
11 Tom Isaacs
10 Dan Biggar
9 Kahn Fotuali'i
1 Ryan Bevington
2 Richard Hibbard
3 Aaron Jarvis
4 Alun Wyn Jones (Capt)
5 Ian Evans
6 Ryan Jones
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Joe Bearman

REPLACEMENTS

16 Scott Baldwin
17 Duncan Jones
18 Adam Jones
19 Jonathan Thomas
20 George Stowers
21 Rhys Webb
22 Matthew Morgan
23 Ross Jones



Munster

1 Wian du Preez
2 Mike Sherry
3 Stephen Archer
4 Donncha O'Callaghan
5 Billy Holland
6 Tommy O'Donnell
7 Niall Ronan
8 Paddy Butler
9 Conor Murray
10 Ronan O'Gara
11 Simon Zebo
12 Casey Laulala
13 Keith Earls
14 Doug Howlett
15 Denis Hurley

16 Damien Varley
17 Dave Kilcoyne
18 BJ Botha
19 Donnacha Ryan
20 Peter O'Mahony
21 Peter Stringer
22 Ian Keatley
23 James Downey

Maesteg,

I really don't know what to make of this game.

I can't even say what our probable team will be

I'd imagine that Donnacha Ryan and Peter O'Mahony will be on the bench.

I'd imagine we it could be something along the lines of:

01 Wian du Preez
02 Mike Sherry
03 BJ Botha
04 Donnacha O'Callaghan
05 Dave Foley
06 Dave O'Callaghan
07 Niall Ronan
08 Paddy Butler
09 Conor Murray
10 Ronan O'Gara
11 Simon Zebo
12 Casey Laulala
13 Keith Earls
14 Doug Howlett
15 Ian Keatley

16 Damien Varley
17 Dave Kilcoyne
18 Stephen Archer
19 Donnacha Ryan
20 Peter O'Mahony
21 Peter Stringer
22 Scott Deasy
23 James Downey

I think Ospreys will have good confidence having gone to Llanelli and won and the monkey should be off their back now.

Having said that I do still think we can go there and win. One of those games that no result would surprise me. A draw, a heavy defeat, a massive win, a tight encounter either way.

I'd go with kahn at 9, Bearman at 8, and Ryan at 6. I expect to see a better display again with Ryan playing the full game, his impact on friday night was huge.

jay_welsh wrote:his impact on friday night was huge.

+1

I think that I would probably go for something more or less the same as the team that won on Friday, show loyalty to the players that are winning games, and then shuffle them around when the Ospreys are feeling abit more settled with another two or threee wins under their belts.

Fussel, Dirkson, Bishop, Beck, Grabham, Biggar, Fotuali'i;
D Jones, Hibbard, Jarvis, Evans, AWJ, R Jones, Tipuric, Bearman
(bench: Baldwin, Bevington, Rees (A Jones if fit), Gough, Thomas, Webb, Morgan, Isaacs)

Scarlet:

Totally agree, if the Ospreys play as well this week as they did against the Scarlets they should do well and hopefully give the Scarlets some breathing space at the top of the table.

I think the Ospreys will need another strategy to beat Munster, they will have watched the rough stuff at PYS and will certainly come to the Liberty will a plan for dealing with that approach. I suspect that the Ref appointed for the next game will be a bit stronger also.

I think we all hope they keep the controlled aggression but abandon the stupidity. We can't risk having players out due to citings when the start of the HEC is so close.

Pretty strong looking prospective Munster backline there RedStag. We will have to be very tight with our defence.

I hope we can create more and reduce the fumbles and error count. Time to get clinical.

Also I dissagree regarding including Khan, I'm not impressed with him at all. Bearman maybe a good option. We really dont have a first choice number eight.

Need young Bsker from the Accademy to mature a bit quicker.

Seagultaf wrote:I think the Ospreys will need another strategy to beat Munster, they will have watched the rough stuff at PYS and will certainly come to the Liberty will a plan for dealing with that approach. I suspect that the Ref appointed for the next game will be a bit stronger also.

You would hope so, a strong ref would've sorted the nonsense out early on, went too far (and I'm an Osprey's fan) Unfortunately, I don't think that will be the case

Just seen on Rugby 365 that the referee is Mr Dudley Phillips of Leinster - BIO

Although, Rugby 365 has him down as Dudley Phillips (Italy)

Gruff Rees says that Adam and Beck are looking promising for this natch...!

Is it me or do games between Welsh and Irish teams in the Rabo seem to have Irish refs more often than not?

PenfroPete wrote:Just seen on Rugby 365 that the referee is Mr Dudley Phillips of Leinster - BIO

Although, Rugby 365 has him down as Dudley Phillips (Italy)

A Leinster ref doing Munster favours - you must be kidding

tatterd wrote:Is it me or do games between Welsh and Irish teams in the Rabo seem to have Irish refs more often than not?

Its you - James Jones was the Munster v Ospreys last season. Munster get Alain Rolland a lot and he never gives Munster anything.

Sin é wrote:

tatterd wrote:Is it me or do games between Welsh and Irish teams in the Rabo seem to have Irish refs more often than not?

Its you - James Jones was the Munster v Ospreys last season. Munster get Alain Rolland a lot and he never gives Munster anything.

The quantity of quality refs we use in the RP12 is very low.

maestegmafia wrote:

Sin é wrote:

tatterd wrote:Is it me or do games between Welsh and Irish teams in the Rabo seem to have Irish refs more often than not?

Its you - James Jones was the Munster v Ospreys last season. Munster get Alain Rolland a lot and he never gives Munster anything.

The quantity of quality refs we use in the RP12 is very low.

Its low everywhere. Does any other league have 3 elite refs (Nige, George & Rolland)?

You may well be right Sin.. Refereeing is on the down turn.

Though Clancey is definitely not on my Christmas card list and should the IRB ask my opinion on him staying in the top tier I would have to say no.

He stifles games with his pedantic interpretations no empathy or sense of the games flow and ebb.

Who's this Leinster fella for Saturdays game then?

Sin é wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Sin é wrote:

tatterd wrote:Is it me or do games between Welsh and Irish teams in the Rabo seem to have Irish refs more often than not?

Its you - James Jones was the Munster v Ospreys last season. Munster get Alain Rolland a lot and he never gives Munster anything.

The quantity of quality refs we use in the RP12 is very low.

Its low everywhere. Does any other league have 3 elite refs (Nige, George & Rolland)?

We may have 3 elite reffs but the rest in the league are extremely poor.

I did say recently that the problem we have is that we are expecting (as fans) the league to be producing top players, coaches etc, and we are willing for them to make mistakes whilst they are learning their trade. However we are not willing to allow a young bloke learning to be a decent ref any mistakes. Whilst I will moan about a ref, and will let him know exactly how I feel if I am at the match (or in front of the tv sadly), we do need to accept that they are going to need t ref the big games in the league in order to get better. And seeing as they are young they should give us a higher standard of reffing for years to come.

Also lets remember some of the dross refs we have had when the league started (Chanlengs were probably the only decent Scots refs), we are probably at a better level of officiating now.

I don't blame the refs or the league it's the laws of the game that make life hard...!

Unenviable job but it unfortunately attracts many pedants and procrastinators.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I did say recently that the problem we have is that we are expecting (as fans) the league to be producing top players, coaches etc, and we are willing for them to make mistakes whilst they are learning their trade. However we are not willing to allow a young bloke learning to be a decent ref any mistakes. Whilst I will moan about a ref, and will let him know exactly how I feel if I am at the match (or in front of the tv sadly), we do need to accept that they are going to need t ref the big games in the league in order to get better. And seeing as they are young they should give us a higher standard of reffing for years to come.

Also lets remember some of the dross refs we have had when the league started (Chanlengs were probably the only decent Scots refs), we are probably at a better level of officiating now.

You really need to get out more

Pre Munster osprey press conference

http://www.ospreysrugby.com/matchdaytv/?play=media&id=12891

maestegmafia wrote:I don't blame the refs or the league it's the laws of the game that make life hard...!

Unenviable job but it unfortunately attracts many pedants and procrastinators.

+1

I think people are too quick to complain and only see things from their own point of view.

The vast majority of games are not decided by the refs but every season theres a few that are. Its the same in any sport though. I see soccer refs blow the whistle any time a player throws himself on the ground or wrongly award penalties etc.

It's the refs that constrict the game by dealing with issues the wrong way.

For example if one team kills the ball the other will too. Same at the scrum if one thinks they can get in early shoves or illegal binds the other will follow.

Refs have to empathise and deal with issues at the beginning, setting a president for good behaviour.

Too many rp12 games are hampered by refs not dealing with issues early on. Often easing to one team gaining an illegal advantage.

My other contentious point is the amount of time a player has to release the ball after a tackle. I have seen Nigel Owens and Wayne Barnes give 5 seconds to an attacking team in their late phases. I've seen Clancy give 2 seconds in the same scenario.

Munster Team Announced:

01 Wian du Preez
02 Mike Sherry
03 Stephen Archer
04 Donncha O'Callaghan
05 Billy Holland
06 Tommy O'Donnell
07 Niall Ronan
08 Paddy Butler
09 Conor Murray
10 Ronan O'Gara
11 Simon Zebo
12 Casey Laulala
13 Keith Earls
14 Doug Howlett
15 Denis Hurley

16 Damien Varley
17 Dave Kilcoyne
18 BJ Botha
19 Donnacha Ryan
20 Peter O'Mahony
21 Peter Stringer
22 Ian Keatley
23 James Downey

I have serious concerns about positions 3, 6, 10 & 12. With regard to 10 & 12 it's more the combination that I'm worried about it.

I'd have like to see Downey rested completely with JJ Hanrahan on the bench.

The thought of Archer v Duncan Jones makes me shudder...

I'd be happy to see us finish the game with:

du Preez, Sherry, Botha
O'Callaghan, Ryan
O'Mahony, Butler, O'Donnell
Murray, Keatley
Downey, Laulala
Zebo, Earls, Howlett

Yeah Archer is the big worry. Its make or break season for him.

I dont mind Archer starting. We need Botha for the following three games and we need to develop our props.

I rate O'Mahony very highly he'll cause us some trouble.

MMC wrote:I have serious concerns about positions 3, 6, 10 & 12. With regard to 10 & 12 it's more the combination that I'm worried about it.

I'd have like to see Downey rested completely with JJ Hanrahan on the bench.

The thought of Archer v Duncan Jones makes me shudder...

I'm pleased - its an away game which we can afford to lose. Fair play to Penney for backing Archer - its the only way he is going to learn.

JJ is better off getting a full game with his club rather than another 10 minute cameo off the bench.

Sin é wrote:

MMC wrote:I have serious concerns about positions 3, 6, 10 & 12. With regard to 10 & 12 it's more the combination that I'm worried about it.

I'd have like to see Downey rested completely with JJ Hanrahan on the bench.

The thought of Archer v Duncan Jones makes me shudder...

I'm pleased - its an away game which we can afford to lose. Fair play to Penney for backing Archer - its the only way he is going to learn.

JJ is better off getting a full game with his club rather than another 10 minute cameo off the bench.

Agree entirely with this.

I suspect we will lose and not get a bonus point. However I think we could do with a good defeat, often teaches you more than a win.

Sin é wrote:JJ is better off getting a full game with his club rather than another 10 minute cameo off the bench.

That's true yes, but I was saying it more for Downey. He's played almost every minute of every game for us so far. I'd have preferred to have seen him rested completely. Having him on the bench covering one position is a testament to how light on cover we are in the IC position.

ROG needs time with Downey as well - he hasn't had a crashball 12 beside him since Halstead!

That's very true Sin.

I hope that Penney brings O'Mahony and Ryan on at the same time. Mad b*stards the two of them...

Incidentally, CJ Stander will be starting at 8 for the Blue Bulls tomorrow evening, would be worth a watch.

Sin é wrote:ROG needs time with Downey as well - he hasn't had a crashball 12 beside him since Halstead!

He had BoD for the 2nd Test v NZ and looked like he still knew how to use that kind of weapon.I think that's a decent team Penney has picked but as someone pointed out earlier Munster are pretty light of options at 12,Downey is actually a pretty key player for them already.

Biggar V O'Gara will be interesting, two similar types of 10's, one who's done it all against one who thinks he can do it all, this is where I think the game hinges, who controls the game better, also looking at the Munster pack, I honestly do not think that going to the Ospreys without your first team pack starting is a good idea. Oh well we will soon see, the Liberty has not been a good hunting ground for Munster in recent times, perhaps they are due a win.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:ROG needs time with Downey as well - he hasn't had a crashball 12 beside him since Halstead!

He had BoD for the 2nd Test v NZ and looked like he still knew how to use that kind of weapon.I think that's a decent team Penney has picked but as someone pointed out earlier Munster are pretty light of options at 12,Downey is actually a pretty key player for them already.

D'arcy was at 12 for the second test.

valjester wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:ROG needs time with Downey as well - he hasn't had a crashball 12 beside him since Halstead!

He had BoD for the 2nd Test v NZ and looked like he still knew how to use that kind of weapon.I think that's a decent team Penney has picked but as someone pointed out earlier Munster are pretty light of options at 12,Downey is actually a pretty key player for them already.

D'arcy was at 12 for the second test.

Yeah but when RoG came on,D'Arcy came off and Sexton moved to 13 with BoD coming inside and playing the crash ball centre role very well.It worked and RoG & BoD used it effectively without overdoing it,I think RoG could form a good partnership with Downey as he still has an excellent pass and makes good decisions while Downeys size and strength will help to negate some of RoG's weaknesses.

Has the delay in picking the Ospreys squad anyhting to do with Bishop's court case he has lost, will he be picked?

An Ospreys win by 5 - 10 pts in my opinion. They have the better pack. It should be a good test for Munsters pack.

glamorganalun wrote:Has the delay in picking the Ospreys squad anyhting to do with Bishop's court case he has lost, will he be picked?

The Ospreys always announce their team the day before the game.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

valjester wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sin é wrote:ROG needs time with Downey as well - he hasn't had a crashball 12 beside him since Halstead!

He had BoD for the 2nd Test v NZ and looked like he still knew how to use that kind of weapon.I think that's a decent team Penney has picked but as someone pointed out earlier Munster are pretty light of options at 12,Downey is actually a pretty key player for them already.

D'arcy was at 12 for the second test.

Yeah but when RoG came on,D'Arcy came off and Sexton moved to 13 with BoD coming inside and playing the crash ball centre role very well.It worked and RoG & BoD used it effectively without overdoing it,I think RoG could form a good partnership with Downey as he still has an excellent pass and makes good decisions while Downeys size and strength will help to negate some of RoG's weaknesses.

Maybe,but, Munster shouldn't have to be forced to play a certain way in order to accommodate anyone's weaknesses when they have someone capable of playing the desired game plan in their squad.

Its a big game for ROG. He needs a big game and even then I'd still fancy Keatley to be in pole position.

profitius wrote:Its a big game for ROG. He needs a big game and even then I'd still fancy Keatley to be in pole position.

+1

What time are they announcing the Ospreys team ?

Lunchtime today I think.

OSPREYS team to face Munster:

15 Richard Fussell
14 Hanno Dirksen
13 Andrew Bishop
12 Ashley Beck
11 Tom Isaacs
10 Dan Biggar
9 Kahn Fotuali'i
1 Ryan Bevington
2 Richard Hibbard
3 Aaron Jarvis
4 Alun Wyn Jones (Capt)
5 Ian Evans
6 Ryan Jones
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Joe Bearman

REPLACEMENTS
16 Scott Baldwin
17 Duncan Jones
18 Adam Jones
19 Jonathan Thomas
20 George Stowers
21 Rhys Webb
22 Matthew Morgan
23 Ross Jones

Adam Jones on the bench, I bet he will play at least a half.

A very good Ospreys team with a strong bench. Don't see it being our day.

The second half scrum battle will be interesting as Duncan Jones, Adam Jones and BJ Botha all come off the bench.