V2 Youngster Watch

There has been a lot of talk analysing the future prospects of the tennis world on 606v2. There has indeed been a scepticism, and the reality is that in the top tier of the men's game there is no player below the age of 22 challenging for Grand Slam tournaments or any major titles.

Nevertheless, as we have seen in the past, young players can enjoy rapid progress and success, even when it is not expected. They can mature very quickly and rise seemingly out of the blue, as we have seen in the past!

Anyway enough of the deep analysis and speculation, this thread will just be monitoring the progress of the younger players in the Top 50 or so (Blue Group). I know that in Grand Slams there is a lot of exposure of the results, but the reporting on the smaller 250 tournaments is much more limited, so I will be keeping a log on the progress of certain young players, updating their performance every week. This is not my TWS Series 2, it is something a bit different

Nominated Players:
Blue Group:
Milos Raonic
Bernard Tomic
David Goffin
Ryan Harrison
Grigor Dimitrov
Jerzy Janowicz

Red Group:
Cedrik Marcel Stebe
Jack Sock
James Duckworth
Andrey Kuznetsov
Yuki Bhambri

Green Group:
Oliver Golding (18)
Philip Peliwo (18)
Kimmer Coppejans (18)
Luke Saville (18)
Dominic Thiem (19)

Amritia's 'ones to watch out for in 2013':
-Jerzy Janowicz
-Milos Raonic
-Bernard Tomic

Don't forget Wee Goffin - playing in Orleans Challenger this week.
Not sure I'd be calling a 22/23yo a "youngster"...is this sticking to 21 and unders?

lydian wrote:Don't forget Wee Goffin - playing in Orleans Challenger this week.
Not sure I'd be calling a 22/23yo a "youngster"...is this sticking to 21 and unders?

All 4 players included are currently 21 and other, if Wikipedia is to be believed.

Will add in Goffin now

Edit: I will only be updating the results for ATP tour level tournaments.
Anything below that (challengers, futures etc.) will not be counted.

Good idea IMBL and well done.

Fair enough IMBL...but the players sometimes play challengers and ATP events during the year, especially after USO. For example top 20 ranked Kohlschreiber is also playing the same challenger this week. Some challengers afford up to 125 pts for the winner which is better than getting to the semis of an ATP.

Also,,you can track progress and which event is being played for the U21's here...
http://live-tennis.eu/rankings_under_21

It's good to see how they're getting on each round though, keep up the good work.

Jack Sock?

Yep he's one to watch, younger than the others too.

Goffin is through to R2 in Orleans.
http://blogs.bettor.com/David-Goffin-qualify-for-the-second-round-Orleans-Challenger-2012-CH-a190024

I'm a broken record but I see him as the most talented under 23 player right now, there is something genuinely mercurial about his game.

Sorry but I have seen all these players and none of them have the wow factor... (for me)

I would generally agree HE, the jury is even still out on Goffin but his issue isn't talent it's physicality which can be worked on. 2012 is Goffin's first year on ATP tour.

This is what Federer said about him after their RG encounter:
"I thought he played really well. Great impression. He took the ball early every time. If you don't hit a very good shot, he can take advantage. I guess for his size - and he’s not the heaviest guy out there - it's natural he's going to be a good mover, and his strengths lie sort of in the baseline game. He's got great potential in terms of his touch and the way he reads the game… He impressed me."

The taking the ball early every time speaks to his talent, especially when its the king of early ball taking saying that. Goffin's ranking since January has gone from 174 to 55 presently.

lydian wrote:
I'm a broken record but I see him as the most talented under 23 player right now, there is something genuinely mercurial about his game.

Agree Lydian, I certainly think he has a lot of potential.
Will he be able to turn it into big results?

CaledonianCraig wrote:Good idea IMBL and well done.

Thanks CC

The Special Juan wrote:Jack Sock?

My cut-off point is around the #50-70 world rankings mark.
Sock is not in the top 200

That's the big Q IMBL...he's a late developer in that he's only been at ATP level in 2012 and for his age hasn't really been on tour long at all. So he's been clearly hiding his light under a Belgian Bushel. Time can only tell but he's having good wins through the year and that rankings climb doesn't lie...that's some rise from the start of the year.

I admit haven't seen a huge amount of Goffin, but I still think Tomic could become something special if he screws his head on properly (which at the moment is an IF the size of a small continent).

how many of these guys have beaten top ten players? how often? I know Raonic has beaten Murray on clay. A 19 year-old Murray beat Federer on HC in a season where he only lost four matches. Nadal and Djokovic have similar exploits. Just don't see that from the current crop...

Sock is very good I think he has more ability than Harrison and Harrison is a good player as well. Tomic and Raonic also have a lot of game and goffin as well there is not telling which of them will make the push to grandslam champion. Or if any of them will. I think Tomic, Sock, and Raonic have the game. I think Bernard is going to get better at the power game to mix it with his variety. We will see I don't buy dimitrov his one hander is a liability and Goffin is really a great player.

What have you seen in Sock that has impressed you Socal. He is not in the top 200 atm.

If there is demand I will add him in my nominations list so we can analyse his progress in ATP tournaments. Not seen anything great for him so far, has a cool name though.

btw MFC, you are right, only so far Raonic has defeated a top 4 player- Murray in Barcelona.

I had this initial idea and opened the thread some time back before USO , but thats good somebody else is doing it.

invisiblecoolers wrote:I had this initial idea and opened the thread some time back before USO , but thats good somebody else is doing it.

Yes, was it this one:
https://www.606v2.com/t32711-youngsters-to-look-for-new-series

You can continue that, your one looks for very young players outside the top 200 or so who could possible break into the top 50/100. (a brilliant idea!)
Mine though is more of a tracker on the young players already top 50, looking dangerous to make breakthroughs in big tournaments

No IMBL you continue, its good to know somebody good do that, life has become bit hectic for me these days and no idea how often I will be able to surf this forum, so will contribute to this thread whenever I get time, and I also don't like the idea of parallel threads for more or less same idea.

Its just a discussion forum and it doesn't matter where its discussed as long as its discussed.

Interesting to note that Grigor's win today was against Yang, who won a junior grand slam (French) in the same year as Dimi's two. Don't know much about him but he is around the 200 mark and clearly gave Dimi a very tough game.

Whens Djokovics youngest brother going to make a move? Marko seems destined to be a journeyman but Djordje was tipped for greatness

For me it is Jack Sock and Bernard Tomic based on age really.

That is a sad in itself.

legendkillarV2 wrote:For me it is Jack Sock and Bernard Tomic based on age really.

That is a sad in itself.

What do you mean? Are those the only two who have impressed you?

I would not be surprised if Raonic, in particular, broke through and became number 1. I think the ATP will change the condtions to make it faster, and with the new powerful rackets combined with his serve he could become an unstoppable force.

It Must Be Love wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:For me it is Jack Sock and Bernard Tomic based on age really.

That is a sad in itself.

What do you mean? Are those the only two who have impressed you?

I would not be surprised if Raonic, in particular, broke through and became number 1. I think the ATP will change the condtions to make it faster, and with the new powerful rackets combined with his serve he could become an unstoppable force.

In terms of age IMBL. What we are seeking are the future stars and in fairness the clock is not working in favour of players like a Raonic. The longer his drought goes on the difficult it will become for him with age as he will get slower.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:For me it is Jack Sock and Bernard Tomic based on age really.

That is a sad in itself.

What do you mean? Are those the only two who have impressed you?

I would not be surprised if Raonic, in particular, broke through and became number 1. I think the ATP will change the condtions to make it faster, and with the new powerful rackets combined with his serve he could become an unstoppable force.

In terms of age IMBL. What we are seeking are the future stars and in fairness the clock is not working in favour of players like a Raonic. The longer his drought goes on the difficult it will become for him with age as he will get slower.

Raonic has time on his hands, still.
He is not yet 22.

Raonic is a big serve and Fh basically...I'd loathe a player like that to get to #1. He's good...but in the scheme of greats he's not that good...the 2nd coming of Sampras? Don't make me laugh.

He's even better than Sampras
He's really gutsy because he goes for aces

It Must Be Love wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:For me it is Jack Sock and Bernard Tomic based on age really.

That is a sad in itself.

What do you mean? Are those the only two who have impressed you?

I would not be surprised if Raonic, in particular, broke through and became number 1. I think the ATP will change the condtions to make it faster, and with the new powerful rackets combined with his serve he could become an unstoppable force.

In terms of age IMBL. What we are seeking are the future stars and in fairness the clock is not working in favour of players like a Raonic. The longer his drought goes on the difficult it will become for him with age as he will get slower.

Raonic has time on his hands, still.
He is not yet 22.

I think that is a very very pesimistic view.

If he doesn't win a Masters event before 25 I cannot see him winning beyond that at Slam level.

I think you mean optimistic??

He has a few years before he is 25.

Pesimistic. I wouldn't want to see Raonic dominate the game and what your anticipating could be just that.

A few years in which he can de-throne Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray???

Not going to happen.

legendkillarV2 wrote:Pesimistic. I wouldn't want to see Raonic dominate the game and what your anticipating could be just that.

OK, I understand now
Optmistic for Raonic fans, but pessimistic for some, my prediction.
I don't mind him personally. I think there is a big danger in a few years the courts are sped up, the balls are made smaller. Then with these rackets and the power he can generate it will be ace galore all throughout the tour. People like him, big and massive serve, will go tournaments unbroken. Tenez will still be telling me how 'gutsy' they are, no doubt.

legendkillarV2 wrote:
A few years in which he can de-throne Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray???

Not going to happen.

It might do, lk it might do. We'll see.

Raonic with his serve can beat those around him and maybe at a push produce an upset against a Berdych/Tsonga/Ferrer in a BO5. Against a Murray/Djokovic it just won't happen. Like you stated it would need a massive shift in favourable conditions and draws for that matter for him to become a force in the game.

In terms of the current state of the game Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray are the darlings of the game. The players that tournament directors want to play. The most important factor in all of this is that Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray can compete with each other. Until someone can force themselves into the reckoning, things will not change.

It Must Be Love wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:For me it is Jack Sock and Bernard Tomic based on age really.

That is a sad in itself.

What do you mean? Are those the only two who have impressed you?

I would not be surprised if Raonic, in particular, broke through and became number 1. I think the ATP will change the condtions to make it faster, and with the new powerful rackets combined with his serve he could become an unstoppable force.

That will be the day I stop following the mens tour any significant speed up in conditions will be disastrous to the game with players like Raonic turning every match into meathead tennis. See ball smash ball.

The reason I like Sock so much and his ranking is as low as it is, is due to injuries and I do think the kid has top 30 talent in the future we will see if he can push it any higher the power and the shots are there. Steve Johnson coming out of college is also got a great serve and forehand but his backhand is not ATP or even WTA at this point.

I doubt the ATP will be change conditions drastically. These people have experience and unlike the radical revolutionaries who post on this site they actually require evidence of a problem before making wholesale changes to the entire game to favor attackers. The game is on the upswing in the last few years and really there is no evidence of fans clamouring for faster conditions unless you visit a few sites heavily populated by fed fans who not surprisingly favor the exact set of conditions that fit a 31 year old Roger's game like a glove. Other than that I don't see a groundswell in the media or fans leaving the game.

I agree with you Socal
Except Hard-courts should be eradicated from the game for a few years, then after around 5 years it can be re-installed.

Anyway this thread is about discussing the progress of the nominated youngsters, if we want to discuss more on surface change we can use this thread:
https://www.606v2.com/t34647-how-has-surface-change-homogenisation-impacted-the-top-players (rather than having many threads on the same topic).

This is my League Groupings for the youngsters. Blue Group is the highest.

Blue Group:
Milos Raonic (21)
Bernard Tomic (19)
David Goffin (21)
Ryan Harrison (20)
Grigor Dimitrov (21)

Red Group:
Cedrik Marcel Stebe (21)
Jack Sock (20)
James Duckworth (20)
Andrey Kuznetsov (21)
Yuki Bhambri (20)

Green Group:
Oliver Golding (18)
Philip Peliwo (18)
Kimmer Coppejans (18)
Luke Saville (18)
Dominic Thiem (19)

Blue Group Matches (scheduled tomorrow):


Raonic vs Karlovic (ATP 250 Bangkok)
Tomic vs Sela (ATP 250 Bangkok)
Dimitrov vs Gasquet (ATP 250 Bangkok)

What's your predictions guys?

Raonic should beat Karlovic, Karlovic can't return for toffee, so expect Raonic to be comfortable on serve, there'll be at least one TB though.

Tomic to beat Sela, Gasquet to beat Dimitrov.

I just don't see that much in dimitrov to be honest MFC, we heard he had this wonderful one handed backhand in the juniors. And frankly it has been the weaker wing of his by a large amount. Wow, that should be a very watchable display of attack tennis; Karlovic v. Raonic. To be honest MFC watching Karlovic play Raonic ranks up there in things I don't want to do. I think we should change conditions so that this matchup is even more unwatchable in the future.

sigh...

does every thread really have to turn into a "socal vs the world (or Fed fans)" argument on whether conditions need speeding up?

for the record I agree with you: Dimitrov's BH looks nice but isn't a particularly effective shot (far weaker than his FH), and Karlovic vs Raonic will probably be as dull as dishwater. I think Dimitrov could make the top 50 once he's sorted out his physical levels (I mean losing the physical battle to Gasquet is a bit embarrassing...), but doubt he'll go much higher than that.

Well Dimitrov-Gasquet could be the best match.

They both play similar styles so it could be an interesting one.
I fancy Gasquet to edge it 6-4 7-5.

Raonic Karlovic- the battle of the big servers!

Raonic has better groundstrokes though- I see a 6-3 6-4 win for young Milos.

7-6,7-6 for Milos there will be no breaks unless one of the two servers god forbid gets shot by a high powered rifle. These guys return horribly.

Tomic beats Sela in 3 sets

Raonic v Karlovic will have the fans staying away in droves... Wouldn't fancy being the centre lin ejudge either.

Got to be at least one tie break set (maybe all 3). I think Raonic has a bit more about his game than Dr Ivo, so should come through in the end.

Raonic beats Karlovic in the battle of the big servers: 7-6 6-4!

Dimitrov falls to Gasquet in a 3 setter
6-4 to Gasquet in the 3rd, after Dimitrov won the first set.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Raonic should beat Karlovic, Karlovic can't return for toffee, so expect Raonic to be comfortable on serve, there'll be at least one TB though.

Tomic to beat Sela, Gasquet to beat Dimitrov.

Ahem

Raonic faced a grand total of 0 BPs, I think we can call that "comfortable on serve". There was indeed one TB. And of course I got the other results right too, not that I'd want to blow my own trumpet or anything

MFC

Superb predictions

Gasquet just beat Tomic 7-6 6-4

carrieg4 wrote:Gasquet just beat Tomic 7-6 6-4

Yeah, that was a close one.

Raonic also a set down against Niemenen.