Strength in depth of English sides.

Thought that the thread about Ulster comparing their strength in depth to the other Irish regions was interesting.

Would be great to compare XVs of English sides in the AP. Also to see how you think they match up compared to other clubs in the HC.


I will start with my own club Saracens

1st XV

1.Gill
2.Brits
3.Nieto
4.Borthwick
5.Botha
6.Brown
7.Burger
8.Joubert
9.De Kock
10.Hodgson
11.Short
12.Barritt
13.Tomkins
14.Ashton
15.Goode

2nd XV

1.Vunipola
2.Smit
3.Stevens
4.Hargreaves
5.Kruis
6.Fraser
7.Saull
8.Wray
9.Wigglesworth
10.Farrell
11.Strettle
12.Powell
13.Ratuvou
14.Maddock
15.Wyles

3rd XV

1.Saunders
2.George
3.Du Plessis
4.Sheriff
5.Itoje
6.Melck
7.Fenton Wells
8.Jono Ross
9.Spencer
10.Mordt
11.Earle
12.Stanley
13.Taylor
14.Ransom
15.Chapman

To be honest i'm usually just happy if we can get together a 1st XV

1. Payne (says it all really )
2. Lindsay
3. Staibano
4. Palmer
5. Wentzel
6. Launchbury
7. Haskell
8. Vunipola
9. Simpson
10. Jones
11. Varndell
12. Bell
13. Masi
14. Wade
15. Southwell


2nd choice
1. Taulafo
2. T Rhys Thomas
3. Mcintyre
4. Cannon
5. Birkett (just retired through injury)
6. Jones
7. Poff
8. Johnson
9. Davies (Berry Retired)
10. Nicky Robinson
11. James Bailey
12. Thomas
13. Daly
14. Wallace
15. BabyBell


I don't think I can make a 3rd team with players that are in the senior squad.

Let's give it a go for Quins:

1. Marler
2. Gray
3. Johnston
4. Kohn
5. Robson
6. Fa'asalavu
7. Robshaw
8. Easter
9. Care
10. Evans
11. Monye
12. Turner-Hall
13. Lowe
14. Williams
15. Brown

2 XV

1. Lambert
2. Brooker
3. Collier
4. Matthews
5. Browne
6. Wallace
7. Skinner
8. Guest
9. Dickson
10. Clegg
11. Smith
12. Botica
13. Hopper
14. Stegmann
15. Chisholm

3rd XV

1. Marfo
2. Buchanan
3. Sinckler
4. Merrick
5. Twomey
6. Clifford
7. Trayfoot
8. Chisholm
9. Burns/Taylor
10. Grimoldby
11. Walker/Burns
12. Casson
13. Sloan/Walker
14. Mantella
15. Lindsay-Hague

Also- Mayhew- LH
Ward- Hooker
Allen - Hooker
(Taylor)- Scrum half
Stuart- Scrum half

Is farrell not first choice 10 for Saracens? Hodgson is decent but surely farrell is better now?

GunsGerms wrote:Is farrell not first choice 10 for Saracens? Hodgson is decent but surely farrell is better now?

No

Sorry that was a bit abrupt. Farrell is a better kicker, recently we have seen that Charlie is a far more complete player and at Club level he is in fantastic form whilst Farrell has had a poor start to the season on the whole. Except kicking penalties against us, apparently

Ignoring arguments over form and injuries Glaws would be:

1st XV
1. Wood
2. Edmonds
3. Harden
4. Savage
5. Hamilton
6. Kalamafoni
7. Hazell
8. Morgan
9. Cowan
10. Burns
11. Sinbad
12. 36
13. Trinder
14. Sharples
15. Morgan

2nd XV
1. Murphy
2. Dawiduik
3. Knight
4. James
5. Brown
6. Cox
7. Qera
8. Evans
9. Robson
10. Taylor
11. Monahan
12. Tindall
13. Molenaar
14. May
15. Cook

3rd XV
1. Thomas
2. Britton
3. Chistolini
4. Stooke
5. Buxton
6. Langley
7. Moriarty
8. ?
9. Lewis
10. Mills
11. Clarke
12. ?
13. Locke
14. ?
15. Thomas

There would be some youngsters that would fill the missing spots, but I've just gone with those that have featured in the senior match day squad at some point.

Shall we do one for the Top 14 teams too?

Shocked take 6 from our seconds and 1 from our 3rds and we have a bloody good full eq side with those replaced on the bench.
Cant see many others able to live with that starting 15
So much for a bunch of Saffer SAracens eh

ChequeredJersey wrote:Let's give it a go for Quins:

1. Marler
2. Gray
3. Johnston
4. Kohn
5. Robson
6. Fa'asalavu
7. Robshaw
8. Easter
9. Care
10. Evans
11. Monye
12. Turner-Hall
13. Lowe
14. Williams
15. Brown

2 XV

1. Lambert
2. Brooker
3. Collier
4. Matthews
5. Browne
6. Wallace
7. Skinner
8. Guest
9. Dickson
10. Clegg
11. Smith
12. Botica
13. Hopper
14. Stegmann
15. Chisholm

3rd XV

1. Marfo
2. Buchanan
3. Sinckler
4. Merrick
5. Twomey
6. Clifford
7. Trayfoot
8. Chisholm
9. Burns/Taylor
10. Grimoldby
11. Walker/Burns
12. Casson
13. Sloan/Walker
14. Mantella
15. Lindsay-Hague

Also- Mayhew- LH
Ward- Hooker
Allen - Hooker
(Taylor)- Scrum half
Stuart- Scrum half

Good job CJ! What's better is that of the second choice all of them could be potential starters except the two highlighted (is Browne actually still in the squad, I thought he transferred...)

1. Ayerza
2. Youngs
3. Cole
4. Deacon
5. Parling
6. Croft
7. Salvi
8. Crane
9. Youngs
10. Flood
11. Benjamin
12. Allen
13. Manu
14. Thompstone
15. Murphy

2nds

1. Mulipola
2. Chuter
3. Castro
4. Slater
5. Kitchener
6. Mafi
7. Thorpe (sadly, damn retirements)
8. Waldrom
9. Young
10. Ford
11. Goneva
12. Bowden
13. Smith
14. Morris
15. Hamilton

3rds

1. Stankovitch
2. Hawkins
3. Brookes
4. Andrew
5. Joost
6. Deacon
7. The French student
8. Noone
9. Harrison
10. Cornwall
11. Lewington
12. Symons
13. Forsyth
14. Purdy
15. Tait (until he proves his fitness)

4ths

1. Balmain
2. Stevens
3. Bower
4. Cain
5. Price
6. Wells

After that It's the young academy lads.

I'm pretty sure it would be impossible to do 3 teams for the Dragons! I'd struggle to do 2 probably! And therein lies the problem...

Sam making posts like that will start the whole who's breaking the salary cap argument again!

That 2nd XV is ridiculously strong and I can't see any teams 2nds being as good.

I disagree HKC, I think Sarries are possibly even better and don't think we are that far off that 2nd team either. It's a good second team but certainly not ridiculously strong. Some players arguably could be first teamers but the same applies to any of the top sides

I disagree HKC, I think Sarries are possibly even better and don't think we are that far off that 2nd team either. It's a good second team but certainly not ridiculously strong. Some players arguably could be first teamers but the same applies to any of the top sides

Take into account the bench requirements on match day and basic injury cover and that second team is required. The only big earners at Tigers will be Ayerza, Cole, Castro and Flood.

yappysnap wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Let's give it a go for Quins:

1. Marler
2. Gray
3. Johnston
4. Kohn
5. Robson
6. Fa'asalavu
7. Robshaw
8. Easter
9. Care
10. Evans
11. Monye
12. Turner-Hall
13. Lowe
14. Williams
15. Brown

2 XV

1. Lambert
2. Brooker
3. Collier
4. Matthews
5. Browne
6. Wallace
7. Skinner
8. Guest
9. Dickson
10. Clegg
11. Smith
12. Botica
13. Hopper
14. Stegmann
15. Chisholm

3rd XV

1. Marfo
2. Buchanan
3. Sinckler
4. Merrick
5. Twomey
6. Clifford
7. Trayfoot
8. Chisholm
9. Burns/Taylor
10. Grimoldby
11. Walker/Burns
12. Casson
13. Sloan/Walker
14. Mantella
15. Lindsay-Hague

Also- Mayhew- LH
Ward- Hooker
Allen - Hooker
(Taylor)- Scrum half
Stuart- Scrum half

Good job CJ! What's better is that of the second choice all of them could be potential starters except the two highlighted (is Browne actually still in the squad, I thought he transferred...)

According to the Quins site, Browne is still a squad member. Also, in the 3rd XV, Sinckler, OLH, Casson and Walker are all players I expect to get some game time this season. I've said it bedew an I'll say it again but I also really like the look of Burns, woukd love to see him get some LV Cup time off the bench

CJ, looking at the Sarries 2nd pack I'd only put Smit into the Tigers pack. On the backs front I'd only go with the Sarries half backs (just) over Tigers. So for me their 2nds are far stronger.

I'd have to say the same when comparing Tigers to Quins. I'd have Brooker in the pack and possibly Matthews. Skinner would probably add better balance than Thorpe. In the backs I'd have Dickson over Young. As good as Hopper is I feel Matt Smith is a real unsung hero for Tigers. I'd have it a close call between Morris and Stegman. As good as Chisholm is Hamilton's experience would give him the edge for me.

Each to their own- I'd have Smit, either Fraser or Saull at 7, arguably Vunipola on form, arguably Hargreaves or Kruis and think the packs would be evenly matched. Combined second team of the 3

Mulliopola/Vunipola
Smit
Castro
Matthews/Kruis/Hargreaves
Slater
Mafi
Fraser/Saull/Wallace/Skinner
Guest
Dickson
Ford
Goneva
Botica
Hopper
Smith
Wyles

Not much between the 3. Except as Yappy points out, we have a weakness at lock

CJ, I missed Saull and I'd definitely have him over all the 7s, I really rate him. I do feel there are a number of close calls with some of the choices, so it is personal preference. If we were comparing to Glaws then my one eye would come into play and no one would be better! I agree with you on the lock front, it is something Glaws are struggling with too, I'm not looking forward to the AIs and 6N when we lose Big Jim.

I'd agree with you this year, Cherry, but that Quins 2nd xv has 10 players under 25. In a year or two I'd expect them to eclipse the Tigers xv in most positions.

Ok we're in the championship but thought it would be interesting to see what we have.
I found this quite difficult as we are in a huge period of change...so many players are still fighting for spots and Deano has really shifted out all the journeymen and is using the youngsters from the Academy right through the first team etc.
I found the 3rd team quite tough...maybe a few fellow falcon fans can add the missing spots.

1ST XV
1 Golding
2 Vickers
3 Tomaschyk
4 Del Fava
5 Hudson
6 Tuifua
7 Welch (c)
8 Hogg

9 Pilgrim
10 Hodgson
11 Shortland
12 Tui'poltu
13 Crocket
14 Catterick
15 Gopperth

2ND XV
1 Shiels
2 Thompson
3 Hall
4 MacLeod
5 Tomes
6 R. Mayhew
7 M.Wilson
8 York

9 Lawson
10 Luveniyali
11 Fielden
12 Fitpatrick
13 Helleur
14 Hufanga
15 Alex Tait

3RD XV (To be completed - Very much Academy Based)
1 Hallam
2 M.Mayhew
3 S.Wilson
4 Wearmouth
5 Hedley
6 Morris
7 Hamilton
8 Robinson

9 Pasqualin / Fury
10
11 Kibirige
12
13 M.Tait
14 Higgins
15